The Malazan Fallen discussion

Deadhouse Gates (Malazan Book of the Fallen, #2)
This topic is about Deadhouse Gates
166 views
Group Read - Deadhouse Gates > DG - Chapter Twenty Two - NO SPOILERS

Comments Showing 1-34 of 34 (34 new)    post a comment »
dateDown arrow    newest »

message 1: by Lee, High Priest of Shadow (last edited Mar 17, 2013 02:06AM) (new) - rated it 5 stars

Lee (kiwifirst) | 1508 comments Mod
I saw the sun's bolt
arc an unerring path
to the man's forehead.
As it struck, the crows
converged like night
drawing breath.


Dog Chain
Seglora


Juniper (juniperx) | 237 comments Assasssins! I have missed them in this book. Kalam's hunt for Claw was (is) great.

I wonder where Pust went, back to Shadowthrone perhaps? And Mappo and Icarium? I'm intrigued by this place they are at now, with the maps. Did they leave a house for another? They must have since they walk on top of mosaic, but I thought they would end up outdoors somewhere. It sounds like a majestic place, hidden away. And the dragons! I wish I could go there.

Pormqual makes a stupid decision and ends up suffering for it. Shame everyone else had to suffer with him. Rest in peace Duiker. :(


Lori The Azath floor was incredible, so vast! So many holds, so many paths and warrens. Loved the dragons flying thru.

Mel may have been manipulating Pormqual the whole time, to act as he did. What's in it for him?


Duffy Pratt | 354 comments The fate of Pormquaal and his troops shows the utter insanity of Korbolo Dom. Pormquaal is not worthy of his troops, so he gets a quick and relatively painless beheading, which is basically over before he knows its happening. By contrast, the troops, one by one, get to watch their fellows be crucified, knowing that they are simply waiting their place in line. And that is somehow more dignified? Wow.

I also wonder about Rel's complicity in this judgment. When he became traitor and agreed to turn everything over to Dom, did he know that this was going to occur?


Aildiin | 39 comments Where Korbolo Dom demonstrate how much of a fool he is...

After seeing the damage the retreating 7th army did all he can do is crucify 10 000 Malazan soldiers?
If he crazy or what ?
Tavore's army is going to go after him with a vengeance and she won't even have to motivate them...


message 6: by Rob, Quick Ben (new) - rated it 4 stars

Rob (robzak) | 1054 comments Mod
And just when I thought I was pissed from the last chapter this one came along and infuriates me.

I really hope Mallick Rel gets what's coming to him.


message 7: by Rob, Quick Ben (new) - rated it 4 stars

Rob (robzak) | 1054 comments Mod
Kat wrote: "Rest in peace Duiker."

Quick Ben's present for Cortilion broke around Duiker's neck. I wonder what that means for him.


Lori Me too, I honestly can't remember!

I'm so glad he killed that noble! Ugh!


Juniper (juniperx) | 237 comments Rob wrote: "Kat wrote: "Rest in peace Duiker."

Quick Ben's present for Cortilion broke around Duiker's neck. I wonder what that means for him."


I forgot about that particular gem. :)


message 10: by Chaz (new) - rated it 5 stars

Chaz | 297 comments Nethpara, what a ****! Not only did he constantly make Coltaine's life harder, then was instrumental in causing a panicked flight that got 20,000+ killed but now he is lobbying hard to destroy the reputation of the men who saved his skin with their own lives. Ugh!


message 11: by David Sven, Mortal Sword..Meow (last edited Mar 19, 2013 01:29AM) (new) - rated it 5 stars

David Sven (gorro) | 2042 comments Mod
Kalam's out hunting claw and straight up he takes out a Hand ie 5 claws. So one down, two more to go right? Wrong.

‘Welcome back, Kalam. Two Hands, you said? Not any more, old friend—’

That's the Claw Master Topper(we first met him last book when he escorted Paran through the Imperial Warren into Laseen's throne room)
speaking now through the dead claw leader - and then

The Imperial Warren was holed like cheesecloth that night, as Hand after Hand of Claw pushed through into the city.

It appears Claw Master Topper is actually crapping his pants now.

‘I know where you are, Topper, and I’m coming for you.’


And we have direct confirmation from Pust that Shadowthrone had made a deal with the Azath house.

‘You are all betraying the Azath,’ Iskaral Pust hissed, pacing in circles around the group. ‘The Jhag belongs beneath a root-webbed mound. That was the deal, the agreement, the scheme...’

Though it appears this deal Shadowthrone made involved a one way conversation

‘What agreement? Did Shadowthrone receive any answers to his query? Did the Azath reveal its ancient, stony face? No. Silence was the reply – to all. My master could have pronounced his intention to defecate on the House’s portal and still the reply would not have changed. Silence. Well, it certainly seemed there was a consensus. No objections were voiced, were they?

It appears Shadowthrone conveniently interpreted silence as consent. I can just imagine how that conversation went.
"Ok, Trem, old buddy, old pal, I scratch your bark and you scratch mine. I'll give you Icarium - and for that, I just need you to...oh let me explain - I'm just about to unveil this gate out at the old temple down the road and when I do things are going to get kinda hairy...and slimy...and possibly scaly as well. Shapeshifters are going to go crazy and try to crash my new crib to get at that gate - they'll drink all my beer, clog my toilet and ruin the carpets and oh...do I need to mention the rats? So if I give you the Jhag - and you let me divert the gate's mojo through your front door and BAM! You get a whole lot of shapeshifters as an extra bonus! Deal? I'll take your silence as a yes unless you protest. No? Good! It's settled!"

The dragons in the Azath were cool. Even though Crokus is a little unimpressed

Crokus grunted. ‘I’ve seen bigger ...’
A faint grin cracked Fiddler’s features. ‘Aye, lad, I know you have.’


And he's seen them up close and personal in that dragon fight between Rake and the demon lord on the streets of Darujhistan last book. He nearly got stood on from memory.


I also notice the Silanda is not where it is supposed to be...hmmm maybe that was the Silanda earlier on...

The Silanda, with its load of wounded soldiers, had not arrived, he learned from a Wickan youth named Temul.


And it appears that Mallick is a double agent working with Korbolo Dom. Now all makes sense. The withdrawal of all troops to Aren at the beginning, before the rebellion broke out. The refusal to reinforce Coltaine. It was all part of the plan that Mallick and the ex Malazan Fist Korbolo had hatched up.


He was smiling as he reined in with his companions before the High Fist, Mallick Rel and the other officers.
‘Well done,’ he growled, his eyes on the priest.
The Jhistal dismounted, stepped forward and bowed. ‘I deliver to you High Fist Pormqual and his ten thousand. More, I deliver to you the city Aren, in Sha’ik’s name—’


Except Blistig has left a garrison inside the city and foiled the plan. That doesn't stop a mass crucifixion to welcome Tavore. They intend to provoke her to rage and a rash attack. We'll see about that.


Also, I notice Keneb finds some particular significance in the title "Jhistal." I wonder what it is?

Keneb took another step back, that lone word echoing in his mind. He knew it from somewhere, but full awareness eluded him, even as alarms rang in his mind. A voice within was shouting that he needed to find Blistig – he did not yet know why, but it was imperative—

It appears he may have found Blistig just in time. But we are still to discover what is significant about "Jhistal."


And Duiker dies with the Jaghut ghost seeing him off.(view spoiler)

Why grieve, Jaghut? I shall not haunt eternity as you have done. I shall not return to this place, nor suffer again the losses a mortal suffers in life, and in living. Hood is about to bless me, Jaghut – no need to grieve . . .

But what was the significance of his breaking Quick Ben's little vial that somehow disappeared into his body earlier on?


message 12: by Chaz (new) - rated it 5 stars

Chaz | 297 comments I'll be back with a quote when I get in tonight for why Jhistal rings a bell for Keneb.


message 13: by Lee, High Priest of Shadow (new) - rated it 5 stars

Lee (kiwifirst) | 1508 comments Mod
Nice summary David, you made my laugh my cornflakes all over the table with the Shadowthrone Azath conversation.

If you remember back when Kalam met bandits they told him there was a Jhistal inside Aren. Then when he met Keneb he said

Keneb nodded. 'Aye, preparing to march on Aren.'
The assassin frowned. 'Tell me, Captain… you ever heard the word "Jhistal"?'
'No, not Seven Cities. Why?'
'The bandits spoke of "a jhistal inside" Aren. As if it was a shaved knuckle.' He fell silent for a moment, then sighed. 'Who commands this army?'


So Keneb most likely got to Blistig and told him of this conversation.


message 14: by David Sven, Mortal Sword..Meow (new) - rated it 5 stars

David Sven (gorro) | 2042 comments Mod
Ah, I remember now. Thanks for reminding me Lee. That's what I like about Erikson. He gives a justification for every single action. Just have to remember them all.


message 15: by David Sven, Mortal Sword..Meow (new) - rated it 5 stars

David Sven (gorro) | 2042 comments Mod
Speaking of justifications - the question was raised earlier about Laseen's lack of action making her complicit in Pormqual's/mallick's decisions - after all, she should be able to use her sorcery to be well informed of anything going on inside the walls of Aren...but we have this little gem from Duiker to Mallick

Aren’s walls are high, well impregnated these days with Otataral, I believe – proof against any sorcery.

Making Laseen's intelligence hampered somewhat to be less than perfect.


The next question would be then, how did Kalam exit the Imperial warren inside Aren's walls earlier in the book...
But even this has an answer - Otataral is inneffective against Elder magic/Earth magic etc - so we see Kalam exits

‘We’re in an alley that winds through a necropolis.’

Earth magic deals in spirits,dead things and necromancy - among others.


message 16: by Lori (new) - rated it 4 stars

Lori So Otataral is newer than Elder Magic.
I caught that mention, and Kalam was right, except the shaved knuckle was against the Empire.

What do you think Rel's reasons are? Definitely wants to shake down the Empire, making some kind of power play.


message 17: by Chaz (last edited Mar 19, 2013 03:47PM) (new) - rated it 5 stars

Chaz | 297 comments Lee got there with the conversation I was thinking of. Thanks Lee.


message 18: by David Sven, Mortal Sword..Meow (new) - rated it 5 stars

David Sven (gorro) | 2042 comments Mod
Lori wrote: "What do you think Rel's reasons are? "

I think one of the ICE novels gives us Rel's ultimate plan/power play. (view spoiler)


message 19: by Lori (new) - rated it 4 stars

Lori Yep that's what I thought. I was kind of asking that to get new readers' responses.

(view spoiler)


Juniper (juniperx) | 237 comments I don't feel like I know enough about (or rather, remember enough of what we have been told about him) Rel to guess as to his reasons. I don't know. History?


message 21: by Lori (new) - rated it 4 stars

Lori Well truthfully we haven't been told much. I know I had no idea, just wondering if I had been dense!


message 22: by Lee, High Priest of Shadow (new) - rated it 5 stars

Lee (kiwifirst) | 1508 comments Mod
So Otataral is newer than Elder Magic.

I can't remember if that is ever stated. Certainly possible that it could be as old or older, just not used in a form to blunt magic. The dust could have been sitting around for millions of years before someone worked out what they could do with it.

Otataral is inneffective against Elder magic/Earth magic hmmmm not sure about that. I thought that is was only ineffective against a couple of elder magics, I know Kurald Galain is one, not sure of the other probably Tellan with the Imass.

It might still work against the others, didn't Lorn use her sword when freeing Raest? Which would mean it did work against Omtose Phellick, or what ever the Jaghut magic is called.


Damian Dubois (paradoxicaldr) | 17 comments Isn't it explained further down the track how Otataral actually forms?


message 24: by David Sven, Mortal Sword..Meow (new) - rated it 5 stars

David Sven (gorro) | 2042 comments Mod
Lee wrote: "Otataral is inneffective against Elder magic/Earth magic hmmmm not sure about that. I thought that is was only ineffective against a couple of elder magics, I know Kurald Galain is one, not sure of the other probably Tellan with the Imass."

I might be reaching here, but I'm inferring the immunity of earthbound magic from this quote from the first book


'Otataral cannot quench their magic – believe me, it's been tried. The Warrens of the Imass are similar to those of the Jaghut and the Forkrul Assail – Elder-, blood- and earthbound –

But you make a good point about using the sword to free Raest. Maybe it has some limited ability against Elder magic?


message 25: by Lee, High Priest of Shadow (new) - rated it 5 stars

Lee (kiwifirst) | 1508 comments Mod
At Damian, I think that I remember what Otararal comes from or is for, but that is the spoiler bit. (view spoiler)


message 26: by Lori (new) - rated it 4 stars

Lori (view spoiler)


Damian Dubois (paradoxicaldr) | 17 comments Indeed it is a spoiler hence me just using a leading question. Let the others discover it for themselves :)


Hanne (hanne2) | 228 comments that's quite the chapter to follow on the previous one!
i guess this is a case study for the Peter Principle which says that everyone gets promoted to the level of their incompetence. in case of pormqual he must have had a lot of help on their way, he seems too incompetent to even serve as a sergeant.

unfortunately it's the good guys that pay dearly... :(


David Sven wrote: "I also notice the Silanda is not where it is supposed to be...hmmm maybe that was the Silanda earlier on...

The Silanda, with its load of wounded soldiers, had not arrived, he learned from a Wickan youth named Temul."


I'm still inclined to believe that. Which means the silanda is in Malaz city!


Jamie D. This is where I'm up to.

I can't believe Duiker (and the 10k soldiers) were crucified.

This book got really good around the 3/4 mark.

Thanks for your posts, I'm following the chapter summaries.


message 30: by Sumant (new) - added it

Sumant I have question regarding the hounds which were outside termolor what happened to them ? because kalam thinks the azath would to have those aged killers, were they taken by azath ?


message 31: by David Sven, Mortal Sword..Meow (new) - rated it 5 stars

David Sven (gorro) | 2042 comments Mod
Sumant wrote: "I have question regarding the hounds which were outside termolor what happened to them ? because kalam thinks the azath would to have those aged killers, were they taken by azath ?"

From C20
Fiddler’s voice was a croak. ‘The Hounds, Iskaral Pust?’
‘Escaped! And yet, even in the midst of betrayal, they threw their power against the D’ivers!’


So the Azath couldn't resist trying to take the Hounds even though they were helping it - But the Azath failed - probably because it was already stretched with all the Divers and soletaken trying to get in. Plus the Hounds are pretty powerful in their own right.


message 32: by Conor (last edited Aug 04, 2014 05:13PM) (new) - added it

Conor | 78 comments So angry after reading this chapter you guys. The Pormqual/Rel thing.... grinds teeth*.

Rant ahead. You've been warned.

Okay so the first thing was that the Malazan army continuing to follow the moronic orders of Pormqual. We finally find out why he's made such consistently terrible decisions (Rel) which explains some stuff I guess. I choose to ignore the repeated references to the fact that the Aren soldiers could have saved Coltaine if they had sallied out. I guess this is supposed to make us hate Pormqual/Rel even more but, if true, it would just make me seriously hate the entire Malazan army (especially the commander who's supposed to be a pretty good guy). Following you're commanders orders not to cross half the continent to help the chain is understandable. He has access to information no one else does and ultimately he's the guy trusted to make the decisions, that's how any chain of command works, especially in the military. But allowing your fellow soldiers to be slaughtered in front of the walls just because your superior (whose already proven himself incompetent with literally every decision he's made) says so crosses the line into complicity imo. I also thought the scene where the army was captured was stupid. It makes sense that they would want to go out at the first opportunity to get revenge, but the way they just gave up was frustrating. Pormqual has proven himself to be cowardly and incompetent at literally every possible opportunity. Yet now the army surrenders itself to the 'mercy' of the guys who they know have commited countless atrocities and who only days ago they saw slaughter their brothers in arms and torture their hero Coltaine. Because Pormqual says so? Seriously? We're constantly being told how great the Malazan army is but here they exorcise unbelievable stupidity and cowardice and are led like lambs to the slaughter.

Duiker finally killing that obnoxious noble (Nethpara?) was really satisfying. He was probably my biggest complaint about the Chain of Dogs storyline, he was an insufferable 2-D caricature of a self-important noble and for me it was really unbelievable that Coltaine let him live so long. He was an inconvenience who distracted the command for most of the storyline and it would have been understandable, for both personal and professional reasons, if Coltaine had just killed him out of hand. I guess Coltaine not killing him was supposed to show how patient and noble he was, although to me it was really frustrating. After Vathat's crossing I just didn't get it. He deliberately disobeyed Coltaine's direct orders, got 20,000 refugees killed and risked the safety of the entire chain. And yet Coltaine did nothing? I guess this was also supposed to highlight Coltaine's nobility and generosity or something but for me that crossed a line into stupidity. I don't know how Coltaine maintained discipline when he allowed the nobles to get away with that. Coltaine's 1 mistake imo. btw anyone have any thoughts on why Coltaine left him alive?

We've had a few hints about why Laseen wasn't able to deal with this situation better. However as empress (and especially given all she did to get there) she was ultimately responsible for protecting the continent and failed. Maybe this will be explained better later on but imo she was incompetent and negligent. The only thing she did right was send Coltaine and that was too little, too late. She failed to give him proper support and put him under the command of a horrifically incompetent wanker (will edit this later when I think of better insults) and ultimately only succeeded in getting one of the empires greatest commanders killed. Also this might sound pretty brutal but I was ultimately frustrated that Pormqual and Nethpara both got quick, painless deaths while the soldiers suffered so much.

Collapses on keyboard having ranted myself out*. So I guess this post was an even bigger rant than usual. Sorry about that :)


Stephen | 3 comments Good stuff Conor, glad to see the book got you so engaged!


message 34: by Sumant (new) - added it

Sumant Conor wrote: "So angry after reading this chapter you guys. The Pormqual/Rel thing.... grinds teeth*.

Rant ahead. You've been warned.

Okay so the first thing was that the Malazan army continuing to follow ..."


Awesome analysis Conor, because it was contrary to the fact that the most dangerous thing about malazan army is that army thinks for itself but here it does a contrary thing to the stated fact but it may be also due to a reason that nobody stepped up to pormqual if somebody like whiskey jack/dujek had been present the army could have rallied themselves behind him but due to no leaders to follow may have been reason for the debacle.


back to top