Brain Pain discussion
This topic is about
Collected Fictions
Borges Stories - M.R. 2013
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Questions, Resources, & General Banter - Borges Stories
Mod
"Hurley has no ear for the rhythm..."
I must admit that the Hurley translations do seem rather clunky.
Alex wrote: "Grabbing the big book of collected fictions translated by Hurley is well worth the investment for any library, in my opinion. I haven't looked at the others, though. Any Borges is good Borges."Thanks, Alex! But since the Collected Fictions has more than twice as many pages as the Grove Press Ficciones, there are probably a lot more than the 17 stories that we'll be reading here in this group.
Is Collected Fictions the "complete works" of Borges?
Whitney wrote: "Barbara wrote: "Do both of these editions have all seventeen stories? Which of these two will most of the group be using?..."I am reading the Grove Press Ficciones (which has all the stories). My..."
Thanks Whitney! I'm going to look for the Grove Press edition. I just hope it's still in print, because when the bookseller at the small bookshop I was in the other evening suggested that I get Labyrinths, he said there was another similar collection which is no longer in print. It sounds as though you've had yours for a long time!!!
Yay! I just called B&N and they do have the Grove Press edition. They're holding a copy for me, so I hope to get over there on Saturday and get my copy!
Barbara wrote: "Is Collected Fictions the "complete works" of Borges?"No, besides short stories Borges also wrote a lot of poems and essays. I have one volume of the three volume Spanish complete works of Borges, it's massive - over 800 pages, if I remember it well.
Andreea wrote: "Barbara wrote: "Is Collected Fictions the "complete works" of Borges?""In English, in addition to the Collected Fiction, there is also in the same series from Penguin, a Selected Poems, a Selected Non-Fiction, and a Biography. I picked up the Fiction and Essays, but failed to take home the Poetry volume or the Biography. (poor decision making skills).
And, interestingly, soon to be published areJorge Luis Borges: The Last Interview: and Other Conversations (The Last Interview Series) [Kindle Edition]
April 30, 2013
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00A...
Borges at Eighty: Conversations [Paperback]
May 24, 2013
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0811...
Professor Borges: A Course on English Literature [Kindle Edition]
May 16, 2013
http://www.amazon.com/Professor-Borge...
Mod
Jorge Luis Borges: The Last Interview: and Other Conversations (The Last Interview Series) [Kindle Edition]
April 30, 2013
http://www.amazon.com/gp..."
The Course on English Lit sounds very interesting.
Jim wrote: "Barbara wrote: "I'm glad that a decision was made to read 17 as opposed to 7 of Borges stories. I may not be able to join in until late April, so now I'll be missing less.Collected Fictions is ar..."
Hi Jim! Thank you for your message, telling me about Zee's message with instructions on downloading the stories to my Nook. Unfortunately, I'm having problems downloading anything to my Nook lately. (I have the "lowest-end" version -- the Simple Touch, and I think it may be time to get a new one.)
I'm bummed that I missed the first two stories. Based on the discussions, I think I would have loved these. Anyway, I still have not been able to get out and buy the book of collected stories. I recently took on a new freelance project and at the same time I just started my own website with a partner (a site for guitarists) which is taking up TONS of time.
SO, I may not get to join in until the 3rd or 4th story. Will I understand the third or fourth story if I missed the first two???
Mod
You will. The stories are stand-alone and can be read in any order. They're also short, so you should be able to catch up when you get the book.
Barbara wrote: "Thanks, Jim!!!"Barbara - try to get in on the 3rd story, it is one of the best (and most influential). It's pretty short, so you could read it online. Here's another link to just the story: http://www.coldbacon.com/writing/borg...
Join us. Join us. (*spoken in proper zombie monotone*)
I would agree. "Pierre Menard" is essential. It is the Borges I always return to in my mind.But while the stories are short, some are extremely dense.
I would like to recommend "three versions of judas" if it isn't in the collection we are reading, or if someone hasn't already. I can't promise to be around for its discussion but its still a good one.I'd like to be more involved then I am, but my wife and I are being evicted so housing is sort of the issue right now. And yet, the absurdity of it all (getting evicted because we couldn't pay the rent because wife's disability is 50 days late) makes me escape into a book (just Proust at the moment, but something about Proust reminds me of Borges, perhaps its the constant reminder of being within a book) instead of dealing with reality. Yet Proust is as close as I get to therapy so I still feel justified in reading it.
Mod
Three Versions of Judas is scheduled for later this year. If you find yourself with a roof over your head, or at least a free wifi connection, please join in the discussion starting on September 30th. Bon courage!!
Whitney wrote: "Barbara wrote: "Thanks, Jim!!!"Barbara - try to get in on the 3rd story, it is one of the best (and most influential). It's pretty short, so you could read it online. Here's another link to just ..."
Whitney -- thank you, thank you, thank you!!! I appreciate that you posted the link SO MUCH!!! I have been so swamped, and even though the bookstore isn't very far (everything is pretty close in Manhattan), I've barely had time to do anything other than work. Coming here, to Goodreads, is my "escape from work" and the best part of it is that I don't even have to leave my computer. I can post (as I am now) or read posts, and then go back to work.
SO having the link to the story is fantastic. I'm going to read it sometime tomorrow (Saturday) or Sunday, although I have a feeling I'm going to need to reread it a few times. (Don't forget -- this is my very first Borges!!!)
Does the "book version" of this story have a lot of annotations? Being a Borges "beginner," will I have a tough time "getting it" if I don't have the annotations? (SORRY -- I shouldn't sound ungrateful. Believe me, I'm thrilled that I can start reading this tomorrow, but I'm just wondering how clueless I may be.)
THANK YOU!!!!
Bill wrote: "I would agree. "Pierre Menard" is essential. It is the Borges I always return to in my mind.But while the stories are short, some are extremely dense."
Thanks Bill!!!
Whitney wrote that "Pierre Menard" is "one of the best and most influential," and you wrote that it is "essential."
But you also said that some of Borges stories are very dense. Is this one of the "dense" stories????
Barbara wrote: "Whitney wrote: "Barbara wrote: "Thanks, Jim!!!"Barbara - try to get in on the 3rd story, it is one of the best (and most influential). It's pretty short, so you could read it online. Here's anoth..."
Hi, Barbara - glad you'll be joining us for the Borges! There aren't any annotations in the book (at least not the one I have), but Borges definitely becomes clearer as you read more of his stories. It's not that there's a lot of esoteric references for which annotations might help, but more his unique style and concepts.
Barbara wrote: "Does the "book version" of this story have a lot of annotations? Being a Borges "beginner," will I have a tough time "getting it" if I don't have the annotations? (SORRY -- I shouldn't sound ungrateful. Believe me, I'm thrilled that I can start reading this tomorrow, but I'm just wondering how clueless I may be.)"Collected Fictions does have helpful annotations. More for the geek than the reader intent on getting it. Getting it mostly involves rereading several times, revisiting after having read a few other Borges stories, and ultimately involves not worrying too much about getting it but allowing for that eventual 'click' sound. Getting it also involves having expectations of not having any knowledge of what to expect his next fiction will be like. He'll rearrange your expectations.
[unrelatedly] And this volume is entitled Collected Fictions, not 'stories'; I just took note of that. In some cases, looking for something story-ish might lead to disappointment. Borges writes short fictions, not short stories.
Borges has apparently read every book ever written and makes references to some of them :-), although more important is that he makes references to many books which were never written -- the invention of the book is a fictional device. In "Pierre Menard", extremely cleverly and clearly (but I don't want to explain how), they are in fact the identical book. But knowing the real book, which is in the title, won't help except peripherally and in no important way.The essence of "Pierre Menard, Author of the Quixote" concerns -- precisely as Nathan suggested -- a "fiction" -- and the essence of this superb short story is the narrator's attitude to this fiction, which is unexpected, witty and profound.
Borges' fictions have the feeling, at times, of intellectual brain teasers more than "literary" problems. They are not always easy to figure out,or perhaps possible, but he gives you all the necessary information.
I read Pierre Menard yesterday while on the toilet (sorry if too much information haha). It's not dense at all. It's just clever in an unasuming way, and also it has a sense of humor. Don't worry about it, just enjoy it
THANK YOU to Whitney, Nathan, Bill, Mertin, and the rest of the "Borges fans" in this group. All of your comments are EXTREMELY helpful.I started reading Pierre Menard (thanks to the link Whitney posted in this thread), and I can tell all of you that there is NO WAY that I would have EVER had the patience for this if all of you were not so enthusiastic about Borges work. I've always considered myself a fairly "well-read" person, but this story, my first of Borges' work, is unlike anything I have ever read in my life.
So I really need to thank Jim and Whitney and Bill and all of the folks in this group, because if you are each so "into" Borges, there must be a very good reason, and I want to understand what that reason is.
I'm going to have to have a very strong cup of coffee tomorrow (Monday) and read the entire story again, and probably read it quite a few times. So far, I've just read the beginning and the "list" and then I just skimmed the rest, thinking "how on earth does anyone understand this???" And also thinking "well, since my 'Brain Pain' friends love his work and they all 'get it', I want to be able to play in this sandbox too!!!"
Thanks again for all of the great comments and the inspiration. I'm glad we're reading 17 of his stories this year, because I'm thinking it may take me at least all 17 of these stories to get this into my head, and I am REALLY looking forward to the challenge.
Mod
If you ever find the work intimidating or strange, just remember that Borges was a quintessential book nerd complete with metaphysical flood pants, pocket protector, and taped glasses. And he was also a genius...
Mod
Is there a 'pataphysical flood, by the way?"
Yes, complete with pataphysical animals, two by two, and when the waters recede, the pataphysical ark will rest comfortably on the slopes of Montparnasse...
Mod
https://www.goodreads.com/review/show..."
Great review Mala! Thanks for including the DFW connection. I think it's safe to assume that the James O. Incandenza filmography in Infinite Jest was inspired by Pierre Menard's bibliography.
Mod
Let me know who would be interested and I'll tack it onto the reading schedule for Borges.
Jim wrote: "Mala wrote: "Here's my review:https://www.goodreads.com/review/show..."
Great review Mala! Thanks for including the DFW connection. I think it's safe to assume that the James O. Incandenz..."
Thanks Jim. Yes,I saw that J.O.I. connection too but to Wallace's credit,he took it to the height of perfection! And when you finish One Hundred Years of Solitude,perhaps you'll say that Wallace got the idea of circularity, a serpent consuming its own tale from Márquez!
To borrow NR's cliche "No book is an island" & books cross-pollinate :-)
Language can't exist in a vacuum.I have no problem with finishing this in December. At the moment my calendar for December 2 is curiously free.
Mod
Borges was born in Argentina. He learned to read English from his English grandmother before he mastered Spanish, and at an early age developed a deep attachment to the works of Robert Louis Stevenson, G.K. Chesterton, and Lewis Carroll.
I don't know Chesterton's work, but I can certainly see how Stevenson and Carroll have influenced Borges' work. Any recommendations for a good Borges biography?
Jim,http://www.themodernword.com/borges/b...
This website has a brief biography, talks about Borges' "Autobiographical Essay" and if you scroll down to the end of the page has a bibliography of some biographies.
I don't know if they are any good, but it's a start.
Mod
http://www.themodernword.com/borges/b...
This website has a brief biography, talks about Borges' "Autobiographical Essay" and if you scroll down to the end of the page has a..."
Thanks Bill!
And here are two books available on Amazon, and, in what is perhaps Borgesian style, they both have the same name. Borges: A Life
Borges: A Life
Mod
A strange song; will be interesting to see how it relates to the text.
Thanks for linking!
Did you say "The Fragrant Dog Knife Shop"?
Mod
Mais ouais! Le parfumé chien couteau magasin...
Bill wrote: "And here are two books available on Amazon, and, in what is perhaps Borgesian style, they both have the same name..."I do so hope they describe completely different lives. Except, maybe it turns out they don't.
The reasons for my opinions are in the individual threads, so I'll just dump the raw data here:Stories read so far: 7 already in discussion + 1 for next week's read = 8
Favorites so far: The Lottery in Babylon, and The Library of Babel.
You?
Mod
Stories read so far: 7 already in discussion + 1 for next week's read = 8
Favorites so far: The Lot..."
I love those two and would also add The Circular Ruins.
The Garden of Forking Paths is also quite good and its atmosphere reminds me of Bertolucci's film 'The Conformist'. We'll be discussing on Monday.
I've been saving a quote for that one, even if it's not particularly relevant.
A couple of thoughts that are general regarding Borges.First of all, I'm reading Borges "The Last Interview"Jorge Luis Borges: The Last Interview: and Other Conversations
1) His sight was never good, and he was blind for many years before he died. He lived, therefore, in his imagination more than most writers, and this very clear from the interview.
2) If he his sight returned, he'd spend his days reading.
3) Borges was playful. In the last interview he was surprised how seriously people took because he himself took neither himself nor his work seriously.
Now that could simply be charming, of course, but one feels he isn't kidding. The fame that came to him late, largely from non-Argentinians, was a surprise. Someone stopped him in on the street to thank him for, many years ago, turning him on to Robert Louis Stevenson. He was proud of THAT -- Borges taught ENGLISH literature.
I have the paperback edition of Ficciones, which is the edition that the group had decided to use and read all seventeen stories in this collection.There are two parts in the book -- Part One: The Garden of Forking Paths, consists of the first eight stories which we read and discussed here, beginning with "Tlon, Uqbar, Orbis Tertius" and ending with "The Garden of Forking Paths."
Part Two: Artifices, begins with "Funes, the Memorious" which is the story we're scheduled to begin this week, and ends with the seventeenth and final story in this book, "The South."
Is there a difference between the stories in Part One and the stories in Part Two? I've only had a chance to read three of the stories in Part One (actually, I started two more -- "The Library of Babel" and "The Garden of Forking Paths" but neither of them "grabbed" me the way the three that I read and finished did, or, it's possible that due to complete exhaustion I just wasn't able to focus on the two stories that I didn't finish.
There is a prologue at the beginning of each of these two parts, but I didn't get a clear idea as to what the difference may be between the two parts.
SO, if there is a difference in style or theme (or anything different) between the stories in Part One and the stories in Part Two, it would be great to know before I begin "Funes, the Memorious."
Thanks!!
Mod
Short answer: no.
Borges has a lot of big ideas and themes that he explores in his body of work, but you can begin Funes, the Memorious without reading the other stories first.
You won't become hopelessly lost in a labyrinth. But I'd be careful of tigers -- although one should always be careful of tigers.
Bill wrote: "You won't become hopelessly lost in a labyrinth. But I'd be careful of tigers -- although one should always be careful of tigers."Bill, are you saying there aren't any labyrinths in the stories of Part Two?? Bummer.
To be honest, I didn't find many labyrinths in Part One, but then again I only read three of the stories and also read the first few pages of two other stories.
The Circular Ruins was awesome (I guess that could be called a labyrinth theme?) Maybe I don't really know what a labyrinth actually is??? (I know what an actual labyrinth is, but maybe I don't know what a "labyrinth story" is.)
Which stories in Ficciones would you say are "labyrinth" stories???
PS -- I love tigers. Which story has tigers??
Barbara, Relax. References to labyrinths, mirrors, tigers are throughout Borges, not necessarily central themes, just some of his obsessions. There is a book of his poetry called "Dreamtigers". As a child mirrors frightened him, but he loved tigers.
Brain Pain
Books mentioned in this topic
The Invention of Morel (other topics)The Invention of Morel (other topics)
The Invention of Morel (other topics)
Labyrinths: Selected Stories & Other Writings (other topics)
Jorge Luis Borges: The Last Interview and Other Conversations (other topics)
More...
Collected Fictions is around 500 pages, ..."
In message 27 above, Zee left instructions for downloading a PDF, which I'm sure you can read on your nook.