Paranormal Romance & Urban Fantasy discussion
General Discussion
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Are Manners a Thing of the Past, where Reviews and Readers are Concerned?
Karen wrote: "Irene, you brought up such an interesting point--that a book got you through a very difficult time. That's pretty amazing, really. It clearly had an impact on a lot of people, and ultimately that i..."I think you hit upon a truth here. I've noticed more errors in Big 6 published books lately and I wonder if it's because many had cut staff and the remaining editors are too overwhelmed. Then I read parts of a popular bestseller published by a large house. I couldn't get through it because of all the grammar and punctuation errors--not to mention plot and character development problems--yet it is on the best selling list. Maybe I can start a different thread dealing with this issue? Sometimes I worry that the general public is losing touch with proper grammar.
Back to the original topic of this thread, I do believe that anonymity (as someone else had mentioned) can cause reviewers to be more honest with their feelings than if they were face to face with the writer. As a writer, it is hard to hear criticism of my work, but that's the nature of the business. And some are going to be more frank than others. Bad reviews hurt and make you wonder if you're good enough or worthy enough to be published. But an author needs to believe in themselves and their work to make it in this field. When you put yourself out there, you leave yourself open to compliments and criticisms. Unfortunately, it's so easy to focus on the criticism. They hurt and our defense mechanism kicks in and we want to figure out how to avoid hurting again. But you can't please everyone, as is shown in reviews for books that I found amazing, which others had given only one star. Sometimes it is about taste or the reader just didn't get it. Or sometimes people can just be in a bad place and want to lash out and hurt others. I've seen this happen as well. It isn't fair to the writer, but the Internet has given a voice to everyone for better or worse.
One star reviews can be helpful if they explain WHY they are rating it a one star - if it is a personal preference or if there are so many grammatical and spelling errors that their eyes bleed. The reviews that simply state "This book sucks; it's craptastic and the author should stop tormenting the world with their craptastitude." are not helpful. Because everyone has different tastes what one loathes may very well be something another person loves. When deciding on whether or not to buy a book I always read the one star because they tend to give away more spoilers and I will often at least read the sample chapters if it sounds interesting enough.
A.C. wrote: "One star reviews can be helpful if they explain WHY they are rating it a one star - if it is a personal preference or if there are so many grammatical and spelling errors that their eyes bleed. The..."I agree, A.C. I will check out the 1-star reviews to see if they are merely being critical and if their opinion is more subjective or if there is something really wrong with the book. I will then check out the first few pages of the excerpt to see if the writing sucks me in. Ultimately, I'm the final judge on what I read. ;)
I think there's a line to be crossed when it comes to being rude and it's not about the rating, it's about how the review is worded. A negative review can be done without being rude, even if the person outright says what they didn't like or points out errors in grammar/spelling/editing. To me a rude review would be one where the reviewer personally attacks the author or other readers of the book. I remember reading a review of Twilight where the reviewer said everyone who liked it was obviously stupid and incapable of reading classics like Pride and Prejudice and Wuthering Heights. I found the comment to be rude (and wrong - I've read both on multiple occasions) and pretty much uncalled for.
Nairabell wrote: "I think there's a line to be crossed when it comes to being rude and it's not about the rating, it's about how the review is worded. A negative review can be done without being rude, even if the pe..."Ooo yes, those are horrible to read. The "if you like this you are an idiot" reviews get me EVERY time. I have friends who are guilty of this behavior. And then I remind them that Jane Austin's work was "chick lit" during her time...
Serena wrote: "There is a lot of good advice on this thread. I agree with most: be professional, remember everyone is entitled to their own opinions, & if you want to know more contact that reviewer directly.As..."
I agree with sending the books out to be edited. I sent mine to an editor for developmental edits, and she really helped me shape the story and made it so much better.
I was going to skip the proofreader, and have my betas do it, but enough of them came back with errors that I went back over it again. And I picked up a bunch that they didn't see. So off to the proofer it went. I had promised myself that I would not skimp on making it as good (and polished) as possible.
I want people to like the story. I don't want them focused on my mistakes.
I give self published books way more leeway when it comes to editing. My eyes are almost trained to automatically "fix" errors seen on my kindle that would make me throw a paper book to the wall if it had the same issues. I personally appreciate a good story with a few punctuation issues to a dry read that is technically perfect. Hence, my love of Fifty Shades of Grey which almost every "real" critic hates. My rating system is:
1 star = DNF
2 star = just ok
3 star = good
4 star = will read again
5 star = will read everything written by this author based on this book alone.
I definitely like that rating system... Although, I think I would not necessarily read all books again that I rate as a five, purely because I read a wide range of genres and have too many books too read! It really depends on the kind of read I "need"
At Goodreads you can give a review without rating a book. Because of this I don't think you should give a star to a book you didn't finish.I got almost 1/4 through Magic Bites by Ilona Andrews, and that was twice. The first time was maybe 20%, so a little further the 2nd time. If I had reviewed it then, I would have said that I didn't like the world, the vampires, or the way Kate acted. It wouldn't have been a good review.
Still, my friends pestered me and I picked it up a third time. This time I pushed through and the book ended up not only being good but great. Still because of the hard start I gave it 4 stars. The series ended up being one of my favorites.
So giving a book 1 star that I didn't finish doesn't really say much and can bring down the rating of a decent book. The only time I would agree with it, is if there was something incredibly offensive or you read almost all of it and skimmed to the end so really got the gist of it.
The other reason I don't like 1 star, Did Not Finish reviews is that... frequently when reading 1 star reviews to see whether to read, or even continue, a book, the DNF reviews don't help me, those reviewers don't really know whether the middle or ending made it worth the book. Some things that people find objectionable, I don't. So I like 1 star reviewers that have finished and give a complete opinion.
Any book I get 1/2 way through, I try to finish. Any book I can get that far, I usually really don't know enough to judge.
Lel wrote: decorum, is not only polite, I feel like it should be a given. Too many people get a pass on manners, because people take it as, well that's their opinion, or people have the right to think as they do. And all of that is correct, however it does not negate something as simple as manners.And I am not talking about plots, story lines or the like. I'm talking about common courtesy. like many of the posters have said already. "
So what should someone do if they truly disliked a book? Not tell others? I don't leave bad reviews much. There are a few books that come to mind that I truly disliked. I am not going to pretend I like that book just to make the author feel better. Here is a review I gave to one of the worst books I have read.
http://www.goodreads.com/review/show/...
Rereading my review I will admit, my last sentence was rude. Still my thoughts and opinions are the same.
Lisa264544 wrote: "For me, if the grammar/editing/formatting is poorly done, it ruins the fun of reading the story. I find myself mentally editing the typos as a I read, turning my pleasure into a "chore" and paying ..."I like when people put, in their reviews, that the editing was poor in the book. This doesn't preclude me from reading the book but it gives me a heads up that I will get distracted by certain written problems. Depending on the type of book and the quality of reviews, I may still read it.
I think that everyone thinks they're an unbiased, tactful, and skilled critic because we also tend to fancy ourselves as being far more skilled and talented than we are. Case in point: how often have we heard a friend or relative, upon hearing about our brand-new accomplishment carelessly quip a "Oh, I could've done that." It grates me to no end! Seriously though, I think people think that writing, reading, proofing, editing, re-reading, re-writing, collaborating, etc. is no big deal, or something that the average person could easily do.I really try to keep in mind how easy it can be to pull down something that someone may have spent months, or YEARS on before I open my mouth. I mean, that's another thing too. Just because people have their opinions, not everyone can criticize well, or with skill - that's another very difficult talent to build up!
The best criticism encourages development, growth, and betterment without making the person feel bad about themselves, and as the part time babysitter of my sister's kids, and a part-time teaching aide, that can be exceptionally difficult. I think that we as a culture have let negativity, sourness, and snarkyness bleed into our everyday speech, thought, and discourse, and I think that's a real shame, because it's obvious that as people, culture, or nations, we've gotten a heck of a lot more done when we work together, and put our minds towards something.
Um, so yeah, I'll get down off of this soapbox and just say that civility needs to return, and the Internet-trollishness needs to go, because it's not helping anything, and frankly, was never designed to be anything more than unhelpful, hurtful sniping of hard-working, good people.
:)
K. said, The best criticism encourages development, growth, and betterment without making the person feel bad about themselves ...
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I couldn't agree more, K.! I wish more people would realize this.
Amyiw wrote: "At Goodreads you can give a review without rating a book. Because of this I don't think you should give a star to a book you didn't finish."Amyiw, I kind of see your point but my Goodreads account is basicly my book database. I'm not changing my system 800 books in. I do usually list why it's DNF for me.
K. wrote: "I think that everyone thinks they're an unbiased, tactful, and skilled critic because we also tend to fancy ourselves as being far more skilled and talented than we are. Case in point: how often have we heard a friend or relative, upon hearing about our brand-new accomplishment carelessly quip a "Oh, I could've done that." It grates me to no end! Seriously though, I think people think that writing, reading, proofing, editing, re-reading, re-writing, collaborating, etc. is no big deal, or something that the average person could easily do."
K,I realize writing is a time consuming passion for authors but to consumers books are products. Much loved products, but still something I went to work to purchase and sometimes sacrifice to own. I mean chefs slave to create, but that doesn't mean I don't have the right to send a dish back if it's horrible. That holds true even if I can't cook. I don't think someone should attack an author personally but refuse to feel guilty because of stating my opinion about something I purchased.
Amyiw wrote: "At Goodreads you can give a review without rating a book. Because of this I don't think you should give a star to a book you didn't finish.I got almost 1/4 through Magic Bites by Ilona Andrews, ..."
I see where you're coming from, but if a book is so bad to me I can't finish it I think it deserves 1 star. However, if I give a book 1 star and didn't finish it's always the first thing I write in my review. I will start by telling the readers how far into the book I did read.
There was recently a book I started and hated that was a DNF that I didn't rate. I put a review for it and said I didn't rate it because if I had read the blurb and a few reviews I would've known it was a book I wouldn't have liked and I wouldn't have chosen it. i felt that was my fault. I went strictly on a recommendation somewhere and didn't even bother to read the blurb (won't do that again). Anyway, I didn't think it was fair to ding the author for my mistake.
Alexandria wrote: "Coming from a former chef, for 17yrs before I became a professor, you never send a dish back; unless you are asking for the return of your money!!! "Alexandria, I have seen too many unsavory things as a former waitress to ever accept the "fixed" dish. lol
Love the comments... Recently, I did think though of the number of times I have bought a toy or fast food item, even a cup of tea... That I did not like or think was any good. Most of these can cost under £5 ($8) and yet we rarely take them back and say... "this was rubbish" most of the time you accept it as a "sunk" cost. Occasionally, if you have spent more on something you'll complain.
So, this is the point... It made me think more about how I review from now on. I have rated books with a lower rating a couple of times and now think I shouldn't have bothered.
If I get a book for free and don't like it I will not rate it (what's the point); of I pay less than a £1 I will rate it but will not go into too much detail; less than £2, I will rate & review; if more than £5 - I will RANT...
An example of this is the new JK Rowling book... I got into a few chapters and had to stop! I hated it. Some day I will read it! I paid £10 for that book... Grrrr
So, I think it's all relative - if you pay the cost of a cup of tea/ coffee should you really earn the right to attack the author? Regardless of price, I say no every time, but taking into account what you paid lets use some common sense.
Ultimately, I do think that "virtual" feedback makes it easier to criticise - if you were face to face with the author, I doubt anyone would have the guts to say the things that are said... So pretend you are actually speaking to the author when you give feedback. That is what I will try to do.
Alexandria wrote: "Paganalexandria wrote: "Alexandria wrote: "Coming from a former chef, for 17yrs before I became a professor, you never send a dish back; unless you are asking for the return of your money!!! "
Ale..."
that's sooo bad lol. I will never do that again!
Ale..."
that's sooo bad lol. I will never do that again!
Vanessa wrote: "Love the comments...
Recently, I did think though of the number of times I have bought a toy or fast food item, even a cup of tea... That I did not like or think was any good. Most of these can ..."
I totally agree. Like Stephanie Myers, people have attacked me, because I happen to like the twilight series. I have seen the remarks that they say about the author personally, and I just think it is so mean.
We would never say the things we do online to someones face, because we know it isn't appropriate, so my whole point for this thread, was to say why can't we as readers do the same thing as online readers.
Recently, I did think though of the number of times I have bought a toy or fast food item, even a cup of tea... That I did not like or think was any good. Most of these can ..."
I totally agree. Like Stephanie Myers, people have attacked me, because I happen to like the twilight series. I have seen the remarks that they say about the author personally, and I just think it is so mean.
We would never say the things we do online to someones face, because we know it isn't appropriate, so my whole point for this thread, was to say why can't we as readers do the same thing as online readers.
Lel wrote: "Vanessa wrote: "Love the comments...
Recently, I did think though of the number of times I have bought a toy or fast food item, even a cup of tea... That I did not like or think was any good. Mo..."
sorry lel, can't do the twtards lol, but I totally get what you're saying. I would never say anything about Ms. Myers, even if I do feel like every single character should be staked lol.
Recently, I did think though of the number of times I have bought a toy or fast food item, even a cup of tea... That I did not like or think was any good. Mo..."
sorry lel, can't do the twtards lol, but I totally get what you're saying. I would never say anything about Ms. Myers, even if I do feel like every single character should be staked lol.
Vanessa wrote: "Love the comments...
Recently, I did think though of the number of times I have bought a toy or fast food item, even a cup of tea... That I did not like or think was any good. Most of these can ..."
I totally agree
I think readers often can't seem to draw the line between book and author. And that for me is the problem, so what you didn't like it, so what you paid 8 bucks, we spend that much in Cali on starbucks, or burger king. However, you wouldn't go into starbucks and talk trash to the barista, because she gave you a iced instead of a frap. Cuz if you did, they'd throw your butt out.
Recently, I did think though of the number of times I have bought a toy or fast food item, even a cup of tea... That I did not like or think was any good. Most of these can ..."
I totally agree
I think readers often can't seem to draw the line between book and author. And that for me is the problem, so what you didn't like it, so what you paid 8 bucks, we spend that much in Cali on starbucks, or burger king. However, you wouldn't go into starbucks and talk trash to the barista, because she gave you a iced instead of a frap. Cuz if you did, they'd throw your butt out.
Paganalexandria wrote: "Amyiw wrote: "At Goodreads you can give a review without rating a book. Because of this I don't think you should give a star to a book you didn't finish."
Amyiw, I kind of see your point but my Go..."
the consumers is such a cop out phrase. So what, you paid 8 bucks, that still doesn't give you the right to trash authors personally. And most of the trolls on here, do it on purpose. I saw a review for a very popular author, there were so many scathing remarks about the author, and a few about the book, I felt angry for the author. I messaged the reviewer and asked if she'd read the book, and she said no, her friend did!
Seriously people?
How the heck can you give a review, on a book someone else told you about?
Amyiw, I kind of see your point but my Go..."
the consumers is such a cop out phrase. So what, you paid 8 bucks, that still doesn't give you the right to trash authors personally. And most of the trolls on here, do it on purpose. I saw a review for a very popular author, there were so many scathing remarks about the author, and a few about the book, I felt angry for the author. I messaged the reviewer and asked if she'd read the book, and she said no, her friend did!
Seriously people?
How the heck can you give a review, on a book someone else told you about?
Komal wrote: "Lisa264544 wrote: "I see typos in mainstream pubbed books, but have to say the grammatical and typographical errors are far, far more prevalent in the indie books I buy (I only buy ebooks on Kindle..."
that when you spend your hard earned money...bla...bla... is so tired, and a really played out excuse. We spend hard earned money on everything these days, especially because of this economy, however it doesn't give us the right to trash PEOPLE.
Which is what this thread is about.
And who would trash a book anyway, when I didn't like it, the plot was wonky for me, couldn't relate to the characters, the world building was strange to me, ect, all of these comments work, and aren't harsh. A lot of People on GR are on a power trip, and have a god complex, so they do what they do on purpose.
that when you spend your hard earned money...bla...bla... is so tired, and a really played out excuse. We spend hard earned money on everything these days, especially because of this economy, however it doesn't give us the right to trash PEOPLE.
Which is what this thread is about.
And who would trash a book anyway, when I didn't like it, the plot was wonky for me, couldn't relate to the characters, the world building was strange to me, ect, all of these comments work, and aren't harsh. A lot of People on GR are on a power trip, and have a god complex, so they do what they do on purpose.
Serena wrote: "There is a lot of good advice on this thread. I agree with most: be professional, remember everyone is entitled to their own opinions, & if you want to know more contact that reviewer directly.
As..."
I say good luck, cuz unless you have the next Stephanie Myers, getting published can take several years. I think it took her like 3 or 4. My sister just got a contract with Penguin, it took her 6 years.
As..."
I say good luck, cuz unless you have the next Stephanie Myers, getting published can take several years. I think it took her like 3 or 4. My sister just got a contract with Penguin, it took her 6 years.
Amazing for your sister ... Fantastic!This is reason I self published... I could not be bothered to waste my time, money, energy and emotional state on submissions...
You have to send a letter (include postage for return); then wait 6 weeks for a reply; then get a crappy reply... So many agents to choose from! And then even after you land an agent you have no real chance of success, you still need to find a publisher! Yawwwwnnnnsss... Yeah, no thanks!
Did it a few times, discovered SP and thought "but I only want to write for fun" so taught myself how... It was not easy mind, I have spent months learning how to format, etc BUT, what a kick when I held my book in my hand!
Sorry, this is not the point of the thread, but I had to have a little vent! LOL
I used to write all the time as a teen, as an adult I forgot how amazing it is... For all you readers out there, give it a go. And if you need any help give me a shout either here or on Twitter (@vanessa_wester) - my usual haunt!
I have found people on Twitter to be polite, courteous and fun to talk to... A lot of them are authors! Let's have some fun talking, and consider the people behind the stories...
Sobe wrote: "the consumers is such a cop out phrase. So what, you paid 8 bucks, that still doesn't give you the right to trash authors personally. And most of the trolls on here, do it on purpose. I saw a review for a very popular author, there were so many scathing remarks about the author, and a few about the book, I felt angry for the author. I messaged the reviewer and asked if she'd read the book, and she said no, her friend did!"
Sobe, I did say in my original message that it is not okay to personally attack an author. I don't think it's personal to say I don't like something, nor is it an attack. It's not personal when I love it either for that matter. It's just my opinion. It doesn't make me a troll. I'm not flaming anyone or being condescending.
Sobe wrote: "I think readers often can't seem to draw the line between book and author. And that for me is the problem, so what you didn't like it, so what you paid 8 bucks, we spend that much in Cali on starbucks, or burger king. However, you wouldn't go into starbucks and talk trash to the barista, because she gave you a iced instead of a frap. Cuz if you did, they'd throw your butt out. "
You can't trash talk the fast food employee for giving you the wrong order, but there is nothing wrong with letting someone know you aren't pleased either.
My biggest pet peeve is how not being over the moon with everything makes you a "hater". No one likes everything. There is nothing wrong with posting on Facebook, "If I hear Girl On Fire one more time, I'll scream." It doesn't mean I hate Alicia Keys. It means I don't like that song (doesn't inspire enough emotion for it to be hated). If I downloaded the album on Amazon and rated it poorly that is not a personal attack on the artist. If I started tweeting Alicia that her album sucks because she stole her husband, that would be an attack (something I would never do). There is a marked difference between the two.
Is this becoming a rant on trade publishing? I think it's different for everyone. Ie: What works best for you as an author. What you want out of your career.-On a note about negative reviews:
I just read
for the first time. I stayed away from it because it had terrible reviews, and I mean TERRIBLE. Full of snark, flailing GIFs and exclamations about how terrible the writer is.I started reading expecting the worst. I was shocked that I actually enjoyed it. And you know what? The writing was GOOD. Not just "okay" not just "decent" but good. Really good, actually. There were plot problems, character problems and more. But it REALLY got to me that everyone was saying the author was a bad writer. I think people are just jumping on the "I hate Twilight and anything like it" bandwagon and bashing anything involving werewolves/vampires.
It bothers me that If I hadn't picked up Shiver and realized how good the writer was, I wouldn't have gone on to buy Scorpio Races or The Raven Boys.
So reviewers: Be honest. Just because snark makes for a more popular review, doesn't mean you have to bash everything about the book.
Sobe wrote: "I think readers often can't seem to draw the line between book and author. And that for me is the problem, so what you didn't like it, so what you paid 8 bucks, we spend that much in Cali on starbucks, or burger king. However, you wouldn't go into starbucks and talk trash to the barista, because she gave you a iced instead of a frap. Cuz if you did, they'd throw your butt out. " Paganalexandria wrote: "You can't trash talk the fast food employee for giving you the wrong order, but there is nothing wrong with letting someone know you aren't pleased either. "
I actually have had to have drinks remade in Starbucks and other coffee stores. I'm lactose intolerant so I have to have soy milk. You would not believe the amount of times I order it, pay for it and get handed a coffee made with cows milk. However, like with most things I'll generally be polite when requesting they make me what I actually ordered (and I obsessively watch the barista to make sure they use the right milk).
Erin wrote: "-On a note about negative reviews:
I just read for the first time. I stayed away from it because it had terrible reviews, and I mean TERRIBLE. Full of snark, flailing GIFs and exclamations about how terrible the writer is."
Yep I totally don't get why so many people hate Shiver. I love that book and have read most of her other stuff too. I really like her writing style. There are definitely the anti-Twilight crowd, but I've also seen it trashed (rudely) by Twilight fans who claim she ripped it off.
Hallo, everyone. This will be a most unusual post for me but I believe that it is warranted. In fact, I felt so strongly about it that I joined the group last night so to post this information. I considered how the group members who commented here would react but ultimately, I reasoned that all of you deserved to know that this thread may have been started with a specific agenda (and possibly target) in mind.A little disclosure... I did not read the entirety of this thread because I am still a bit raw over what transpired on my friend's review over the past 2 days. However, I recognise some of the commenters on this thread from other groups. To the extent that anyone questions my motives or validity for this post, please feel free to ask other members about me or post a comment to me directly and I will respond as soon as I can.
My post is to shed some light on the person who started this thread (now noted as "deleted user"), as well as some other commenters. In fact, you will find that there are many posts with "deleted user"—they belong to the following former GR members: LEL (the OP @ #1), SOBE (who first appears @ #44), and LEELIA (who first appears @ #45). In addition, any and all posts by Alexandria Infante have been deleted in their entirety so there may be odd gaps in the thread.
I say "former" because all 3 have deleted their GR accounts rather quickly after (1) deliberately ganging up on a reviewer several months after the review was posted and baselessly accusing her of some pretty nasty things, and (2) then being outed for their lies and connection to Alexandria—who, btw, is also no longer a GR member.
As I noted, the fiasco lasted over a 2-day period so the review thread is quite lengthy and gets a bit convoluted, especially with all of the author's posts now deleted.
Review @ http://www.goodreads.com/review/show/...
Their initial posts: Sobe @ #3; Lel @ #4&5; and Leelia @ #6.
(view spoiler)
How did this situation get worse? When the trio realised that the reviewer had friends who were not afraid to defend her and challenge their accusations, one of them tried to use the "research" tactic. But this is when everything really fell apart for the author and her "fans".
See also the author's last blog feed.
Am I pissed about this BS? You bet. The reviewer is one of the sweetest, kindest person I "know" on GR. Moreover, no member deserves to be subjected to such abuse for a book review.
I am not posting this info to badmouth the author and the trio after the fact. Nor do I wish to sour anyone's GR experience, now or in future. However, given that this thread will continue beyond these folks, I want to make sure that proper perspective and weight are given to their comments.
Woah 0_0 I had a feeling I was missing something. Thanks for the info ETA. Will be steering clear of this author and her books.
Thank, you, ETA. Your honesty and integrity are two of the many reasons I adore you. I knew there had to be more to this, which is why I made the remark earlier about how some people will unfairly bash reviewers simply because they don't like a review, even when there's nothing nasty in it at all.Things like this happen all too often here and there are an increasing number if authors whose works I will never read--including at least one Rey big name who now has a movie deal.
You're welcome, Komal and Thena. And again, I'm sorry to have posted such a miserable tale but truly felt everyone here should know, even though these members are gone (and hopefully for good).(And Thena, thanks so much for your kind words. And yes, I most definitely noted your remarks very early in the thread. Starting with #7—did a mental fist pump at that one.)
Thanks ETA, I thought some of the comments seemed like there was a purpose I was missing. I get very frustrated at the duplicity of this type of behavior. I don't like being pulled into drama unnecessarily under the pretense of participating in an innocent discussion.
ETA: soon wrote: "You're welcome, Komal and Thena. And again, I'm sorry to have posted such a miserable tale but truly felt everyone here should know, even though these members are gone (and hopefully for good).(..."
Eh, the whole first post rubbed me the wrong way.
ETA: soon wrote: "Hallo, everyone. This will be a most unusual post for me but I believe that it is warranted. In fact, I felt so strongly about it that I joined the group last night so to post this information. ..."I am so sorry that this happened to your friend. I believe everyone has the right to express their opinion, and her review was professional. It communicated the issues she found with the book yet she balanced it out with positives and what the author did correctly. It was a constructive review and not snarky at all–one that could help the author improve. As a writer, I get upset with reviewers that just state "it sucks." But that is part of putting yourself out there. You have to deal with readers uneducated in giving proper reviews and sometimes basic grammar and having them just not like yours story. You can't please everyone. It makes me sad that she left Goodreads and is not reviewing anymore. We need people like her who give fair and balanced reviews. I hope she will reconsider coming back. Thank you for posting this example and for letting us know why this thread originated.
Wow, I guess it's okay to not be annoyed at being called a troll by Sobe then. lol Thanks for posting the update ETA.
ETA: soon wrote: "Hallo, everyone. This will be a most unusual post for me but I believe that it is warranted. In fact, I felt so strongly about it that I joined the group last night so to post this information. ..."Thanks for posting this, I like this topic, because it went many ways, I do understand why the members are gone, I ve got to be honest but I thought some of their comments were a bit much, so to say, I finally read the review, and I like it, its honest, explains why she didn't like it, still gave it three stars, which in my opinion isn't bad. The comments on the review are an other matter,
"Unless you live under a rock, or some backwater tpt rural area, you must be deaf, dumb and blind not to know who Lifehouse is. If; you ever gone to church in your life, you hear Life house."
This is just plain rude in more than one way! It is discriminating also. Some nerve to judge people on what they know about music, I believe lifehouse isn't that famous that everyone knows it. (I mean no harm by this comment). I imagine it didn't came through in all countries in the world. Anyways that is not my point, the reviewer chosen her words carefully, nothing wrong with that.
But hey that's just my opinion. It seems all hell broke lose, crazy! Since I joined GR I have read many reviews, by people all ages but the worst reviews seemed to come from young adults, not that all young adults write bad reviews, but they do tend to flapp out very rude comments (and maybe don't even mean them to be so rude). Maybe manners and respect comes with the ages...
@Erin: I don't understand why ppl didn't like Shiver either, I didn't read any reviews before reading the book, but read some afterwards. Glad I didn't read them before! I thought the writing style was very original, never read anything like it.
And then there is the whole twilight matter, so many different opinions there, still the books sell very well, movie theaters still made a profit out of it. The problem I have with twilight has nothing to do with the books (which I stated earlier in the topic also, loved the books!)
The problem is the big hype that was created by the media. The whole comparing everything paranormal with twilight like there wasn't a world before that. I wrote a blog post about it, you can read it here: http://icequeen-ietjuh87.blogspot.nl/...
@ ETA:I was just going to ask the question of why/how the users were deleted when you said they deleted themselves, that does say something about them though.
P.A. wrote: "Thanks ETA, I thought some of the comments seemed like there was a purpose I was missing. I get very frustrated at the duplicity of this type of behavior. I don't like being pulled into drama unnecessarily under the pretense of participating in an innocent discussion."Hey, P.A., didn't realise that you were here as well. And yeah, the duplicity is why I finally decided to post the FYI. For lack of a better term, it's as if they were playing people for suckers.
J.T. wrote: "... I am so sorry that this happened to your friend. ... It makes me sad that she left Goodreads and is not reviewing anymore. We need people like her who give fair and balanced reviews. I hope she will reconsider coming back. ..."J.T., thank you. I'm happy to say that Heather didn't leave GR, although she was very upset and even second-guessed her review. Which is not right because as IMHO, it was a really good review―honest and balanced, with some feedback which the author could acknowledge (or not).
And btw, just to be clear, Heather's review wasn't the first to be hit by the OP to this thread and her buddies. Check out the dates here: http://www.goodreads.com/review/show/....
Paganalexandria wrote: "Wow, I guess it's okay to not be annoyed at being called a troll by Sobe then. lol Thanks for posting the update ETA."*lol* You got called a "troll"? Again, haven't read everything here but can't imagine how that term, as I know and define it, could apply to you. :-)
Irene wrote: "... I finally read the review, and I like it, its honest, explains why she didn't like it, still gave it three stars, which in my opinion isn't bad. The comments on the review are an other matter, ..."Thank you, Irene. I'll let Heather know what you and others here thought of her review. And yes, it was very bizarre how they approached her review and what they chose for their "attack" (in quotes b/c I don't want to necessarily equate trolling on a book review to other, more serious attacks in RL).
I must say we did get a wonderful discussion out of it! I also learned a lot of things here, and it helps with my reviews also!
ETA I'm glad you cleared things up here. If you had not, I would have. I think it's a shame that other readers and authors were drawn into this drama under false pretenses.I've been around ETA: soon and Heather in FL in GoodReads for quite a while. I highly respect both of them and their opinions. We may not always agree on things, but I respect what they have to say.
I'm friends with several authors on GR. They don't always get raving reviews and they let it go. They look at the reviews and decide how much weight to give them based on what is said. Every review, whether positive, negative or jus meh has something that can be gained from it.
Authors put themselves out there and take a huge risk with something they love. I have NEVER seen Heather in FL bash an author or even a book! I've seen her give honest reviews about what she likes and doesn't like. That's so much more than what I've seen others do.
I just hope the authors and reviewers how have posted on this thread do NOT experience any backlash from their posts here. They were sucked into a drama without their knowledge. They did it by responding to a post they thought was legitimate.
Sorry for my rant!
Well that's disappointing. I thought parts of the discussion were interesting too. Negative reviews are tough to take, but they are just one person's opinion ultimately. There's no reason to behave any less than professional, on either side.
Too bad it sullied what should have been a smart and engaging discussion.
It is Karen. I think most of the comments on here are legitimate and worth listening to. I can't speak for ETA, but I can for myself. I'm afraid these people would have taken what these authors and other readers were saying to continue to harass reviewers who left anything but a glowing review.If you look at other reviews for that book and the comments left by those same people, you will see they attacked others as well.
Hey, Lee Anne. Thanks for your post. Heather did not deserve what occurred over the past few days. Neither did the other reviewer in February, or any other reviewer for that matter.Having finally read all of this thread, I agree that this discussion has merit. And could be very worthwhile and informative when comments come from both readers and authors. So I hope that no one took my OP @ #130 as invalidating every comment made here. Again, it was meant to give a different perspective solely re: posts by the 3 former members, as well as the author who, I believe, also commented here several times.
And FYI, apparently not quite over for some people. See this new "review" here (which will probably get deleted come Monday): http://www.goodreads.com/review/show/...
Incidents such as this are very troubling for a variety of reasons. And unfortunately, as Thena noted, they occur more often than you might think. Reviewers are suddenly set upon by a sock/F&F/fan. Other members take notice. And authors, willingly or not and involved or not, get brought into the fray because the reviews are about their books.
But Heather's review fairly quickly turned into―for lack of a more elegant word―a genuine clusterf*ck. And what eventually came out re: these 3 (and Ms. Infante) doesn't do any author, much less an SPA, any favours. For better or for worse, people will remember and it may well be yet another black mark for SPAs to overcome. And it infuriates and insults me―as a reader, as a consumer, and as a friend/supporter of authors who take their craft seriously and do their damnedest to put out the best book they can.
OMG... Sorry, only just picked up the thread again (been busy eating waaaayyyy too much with family)I have enjoyed being a part of this discussion and do think that a lot of good things came out of it. I feel sorry for anyone subjected to abuse on the Internet. I believe everyone has the right to give an opinion, but they should exercise that right in a courteous manner.
As a reader it has made me evaluate how I leave reviews to make sure they are constructive, not destructive.
As an author it has made me appreciate the frustrations faced by readers.
Either way, it has been a win win for me personally. I am saddened that this has not been so for others :(
Oh well... Happy Easter everyone
Try to keep smiling
Vanessa :)
I have to say even though this drama was avoidable...I feel bad for this author. I would hate if my time was spent writing a book and it was jeopardized by internet drama (self created or not). This was a case of passion being directed completely in the wrong direction.
I for one, refuse to be pulled into drama, if I can help it. But I very much enjoyed most of this discussion, as it was intelligent and NON snarky, even when people disagreed. Actually, this particular conversation with you guys sparked a blog post, the way I feel as both a reviewer of indie/self published books, and just a plain old reader: http://www.museslibrary.blogspot.ca/2...
So, regardless of the spirit the thread was created in, I think we managed to have an intelligent enough discussion!
Paranormal Romance & Urban Fantasy
Books mentioned in this topic
Shiver (other topics)Not Another Vampire Book (other topics)
Vulnerable (other topics)
Ditto. I write reviews as little mementos for myself. I don't think anyone reads them and if they do, so be it. For me Goodreads is a place to store my thoughts.