Paranormal Romance & Urban Fantasy discussion
General Discussion
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Are Manners a Thing of the Past, where Reviews and Readers are Concerned?
Yeah I also have UY times bestsellers on my shelves and even some of those have grammar errors. I can read past all that, especially when an author turns out to not even write in their mother tongue. Books to me are personal, and that's also what you are gonna see if I review them. In books I can go to a place to forget about everything that is bothering me. A nice little escape. I know I am not the only one who does that...
I am not really sure what indie authors are?? Does that mean self published? I do have books on my shelves that I didn't finish, some of them are bestsellers. I am hoping to pick them up and read them some day, but it is hard reading something that is just not it for you...
I think books and for instance music can help you hard times, or help you understand issues. That's what makes them special to people. But you can't like them all. For exmple me not liking many R&B songs.
The reason so many people liked Twilight is that they can relate to the character, see something of themselves in the characters. I think if you can do that for so many people, you must be a good writer.
And there will allways be opposites in the world in the world, people that don't agree with each other. Everybody is unique, every author is unique and every book is unique, that is what makes people like or dislike the book.
It only human....
I see typos in mainstream pubbed books, but have to say the grammatical and typographical errors are far, far more prevalent in the indie books I buy (I only buy ebooks on Kindle). And it can be more than grammar, such as continuity, using wrong character name, switching eye colors, etc. Those things may not bother some, but I notice every one and it detracts from my enjoyment of the book when it is pervasive. I spend a lot of money on ebooks, mostly indie, to feed my reading habit. :) So, I don't feel I should have to justify my expectation that a book will be well-written, well-edited and well-formatted.
Lisa264544 wrote: "I see typos in mainstream pubbed books, but have to say the grammatical and typographical errors are far, far more prevalent in the indie books I buy (I only buy ebooks on Kindle). And it can be mo..."I have to agree. I'm not condening being rude or hurtful but when you spend good money on a book and you don't like it, I think it's your right to say that that book was not good. Sure everyone has feelings and people work hard on their craft. But we work hard so we can afford your book, what about that? I might hate a book but it's not like the author is going to give me a refund.
No that you got me thinking about it, I have some ebooks where they said the wrong name that did confuse me a bit at the time, but it also made the read more challenging having to fill in the blanks.. whahah I know you would rather have that in a crossword not in a book.I don't mind because I haven't yet paid for any of my ebooks.That evens it out I guess. Hurray to amazons free books! :P...
But I see your point! Especially if you spend 10$ on a book...
Unfortunately, the books I like are not free. I have over a 1,000 books on my Kindle and probably less than ten were free. So, poorly written books don't get a pass from me.
Komal wrote: "Lisa264544 wrote: "I see typos in mainstream pubbed books, but have to say the grammatical and typographical errors are far, far more prevalent in the indie books I buy (I only buy ebooks on Kindle..."But does bad grammar make a book by definition bad?
Irene wrote: "Komal wrote: "Lisa264544 wrote: "I see typos in mainstream pubbed books, but have to say the grammatical and typographical errors are far, far more prevalent in the indie books I buy (I only buy eb..."For me, often times yes.
For me, if the grammar/editing/formatting is poorly done, it ruins the fun of reading the story. I find myself mentally editing the typos as a I read, turning my pleasure into a "chore" and paying good money to do so? That is "bad" IMO.
yeah the books I really want aren't free either and I mostly buy them in paperback or hardcover, I see the freebies more as an extra treat, for times I can't spend money on books... :)
I think I was too general. (Although I do think maybe I am more forgiving... To a point!) To be more specific my comment was more specific about the book I purchased based on the bad reviews for grammar. And purchased isn't right either--it was free, which is why I downloaded it it. And more disclosure, it was Amanda Hocking, who I had seen taken to task for this on more than one occasion. So I was curious, because she sold so many books. If there were such extreme grammatical errors, how were so many readers able to overlook them?
Anyway, there were some editing issues in it, but not enough for me to feel she merited bad reviews on that basis alone. There were really no more errors in her book than what I have experienced in books that came out of the big publishing houses.
And there are plenty of issues in the ones coming out of the houses. I do have one book (from a major house) that has been been extremely difficult to read because the writer is using words that don't mean what she thinks they mean, and she often accidentally animates inanimate objects (things like "her shoes were tapping" when really she meant feet).
Karen wrote: "I think I was too general. (Although I do think maybe I am more forgiving... To a point!) To be more specific my comment was more specific about the book I purchased based on the bad reviews for ..."
I think why so many people overlooked them is probably either because they are a big fan of her work, or the story was so good that they almost forgot about the grammar errors. I have 1 of Amanda's books (got it for free on Amazon) Hollowland, it is on my tbr pile for this month.. I haven't read any of her other works yet.
The last thing you said is interesting, I used to make those kinds of mistakes a lot while writing! Until I started reading the things I wrote out loud then it sounded ridiculous..
Oh for writing it is a great tip:
Read your work outloud!
I always go back to the fact that yes we have the freedom of speech, but what many people forget is that our rights stop when they begin to infringe upon anyone else's rights. Criticism can be a wonderful and helpful thing when done correctly, but it should never hurt or drastically affect another person. Reviews and criticisms are meant to be helpful to authors and readers alike, not mean or hurtful. As long as these things are remembered, then I think everyone should be able to somewhat accept the reviews and constructive criticisms in a helpful and useful way.
Sarah wrote: "I always go back to the fact that yes we have the freedom of speech, but what many people forget is that our rights stop when they begin to infringe upon anyone else's rights. Criticism can be a wo..."Posting a mean or hurtful review infringes on no rights. It may not "be right", but being rude is a right (at least in the USA) as long as it does not cross into slander/libel. Free speech goes all directions.
I agree that people should offer constructive criticism when reviewing a book or any other creative effort, rather than cruel comments. In a perfect world, there would universal agreement on what is acceptable and what is unacceptable. But, with diverse cultures, perspectives, etc. on the Internet, there is not going to be agreement on this. What "I" might consider to be rude will be "constructive criticism" to another.
With this reality in mind, there will always be people who will excercise the right to voice their opinion, no matter how imappropriate "we" feel about their expression of it. For those who offer their writing talent for others to read, a thick skin is going to be needed IMO.
Lisa264544 wrote: "Sarah wrote: "I always go back to the fact that yes we have the freedom of speech, but what many people forget is that our rights stop when they begin to infringe upon anyone else's rights. Critici..."That's exactly what I ment by not being able to draw a straight line between what may or may not be rude...
Jumping in here to comment that I have left bad reviews because of grammar issues. Mainly on NY Times best sellers when the book is full of them. I feel like the big names should be held to a better standard when the consumer is expected to pay upwards to $8 per paperback mainly because the author is a NY Times bestseller.I have also stated that as a former hospital administrator, a certain author should know the difference between this procedure & that. People who have only watched shows like ER do.
However, I have never attacked the author personally. And I never would. Just because I think the work leaves something to be desired does not give me a free pass to talk smack about the person.
Now if I went to a signing and the author was rude to me, I might mention that. But only if I had personally experienced it.
I think the entitled feelings and rudeness come a lot from being able to say whatever the heck you want on the internet without fear of repercussions. You always have to remember though, if you're very active in the publishing/book world, it's a SMALL world.Becca Fitzpatrick has a story on her blog about a girl who gave her a nasty review who was also an aspiring writer. Said writer got her book published, and Fitzpatrick was asked to give a "blurb" for the cover.
I don't think, in her place, that I would have blogged about the experience, but I don't think I would read the book either.
I always use my real name, because I would never say anything on here I wouldn't say in real life, straight to someone's face.
Maddy wrote: "If I read a book and found the hero so Alpha and overbearing that it ruined the story for me, can't I say that? Someone else reading my review might decide they can't wait to read the book because they adore Alpha heroes. But if all I say is "This book sucked!" and rant and rave about how &^%(@! horrible it was, how can other readers decide if they might like it, or whether to give it a pass?"I pretty much agree with this. If you didn't like a book, say why. Give reasons, objective or subjective, and defend your opinion.
Personally I find it just a bit conceited to say "It sucked!" and not say why. Instead of trying to help readers, or authors, or anyone else, you're just posting a review for the sake of it. No one can really gain anything out of it.
That's just my opinion, of course, but I think the reviews that state what they liked and didn't like, and why, are far more valuable to me as a reader, and as an author.
Anjasa wrote: "Maddy wrote: "If I read a book and found the hero so Alpha and overbearing that it ruined the story for me, can't I say that? Someone else reading my review might decide they can't wait to read the..."Very good point. Then the author can decide if it's something they want to fix in the future.
Also, I've bought books based on negative reviews sometimes, just because someone has said they didn't like something but I like it, ect. So, I think the review can be very negative and still bring in readers! As long as it's well thought out and objective. Sometimes the reviews that are just a bunch of flailing GIFs and "OHMGOD This books is terrible!" aren't very helpful to anyone. It's like a "who can project the most snark" contest.
Really good thread!As a writer, feedback from readers is so important to me. I pay close attention to what people say, and on GR, have wanted to ask the reviewers to talk more specifically about what they liked and didn't, but didn't want to be annoying to the reviewers.
The thing is, friends and family are all very well, but they can't really be honest. They're all about encouragement. So reviewers are the only way an indie writer can find out from disinterested parties what's working and what isn't. Which is gold!
Irene wrote: "Komal wrote: "Lisa264544 wrote: "I see typos in mainstream pubbed books, but have to say the grammatical and typographical errors are far, far more prevalent in the indie books I buy (I only buy eb..."If the editing is off and I like the book, I will say both. Sometimes I've liked the characters but didn't like the story much, and I will mention both.
Erin wrote: "Anjasa wrote: "Maddy wrote: "If I read a book and found the hero so Alpha and overbearing that it ruined the story for me, can't I say that? Someone else reading my review might decide they can't w..."I always need a reason to go along with the "this book is horrible", otherwise I ignore the review.
I think manners are being left behind in all aspects of life, and it's carrying over into people's reviews. The next time you go somewhere, see who holds a door for who, or who says excuse me or Thank You, many don't. Often when someone does then a big deal is made of it, even though a little common courtesy should be standard.
When I don't like a book I like to be very specific about why, cause someone else my like the very things that I don't! I would never want to discourage someone from trying a book based on my opinion.
My 2 cents is that there can be sloppy, abrupt, and melodramatic ways of stating our reactions to the books we read... But at the end of the day, this site is made for readers and not authors. It should be a place where we are free to share our true feelings and reaction to a book we've read... however insulting or shallow or uninformed or knee-jerk off the cuff that opinion sometimes may be. I tend to dislike the idea that we need to be considering the author's reaction to our honest response to book. It's not their place, it's ours. And readers need a free space to gossip about books without being curbed. Where we can say,'hey this book sucks' if that's what we think. I realize that most writers are also readers, but I would say... it might be best for them to keep their Reader cap on when trolling the site and stay away from their book pages if they know they can't handle the negativity.
Karen wrote: "I think I was too general. (Although I do think maybe I am more forgiving... To a point!)
To be more specific my comment was more specific about the book I purchased based on the bad reviews for ..."
This is what I'm saying. I have read her entire line, (the author for the thread) and I'm not sure if I'm blind or what lol, but I purposely went back and re-read the book, so that I could find them, and maybe agree with what the reader said if it was legitimate, but for the life of me, I couldn't find what the reader was talking about. I too have read typos, different story lines, what made no sense, wrong names, and was like, okay what? from the big houses too, and I do see that self-published authors are raked over the coals, wayyy more than a big house name. I wonder why that is?
@ Thread, someone please explain this to me? If you say typos in an author's book like Sherylin, Kim, or Charlaine, why do we automatically give them a pass, but we don't for indie authors?
To be more specific my comment was more specific about the book I purchased based on the bad reviews for ..."
This is what I'm saying. I have read her entire line, (the author for the thread) and I'm not sure if I'm blind or what lol, but I purposely went back and re-read the book, so that I could find them, and maybe agree with what the reader said if it was legitimate, but for the life of me, I couldn't find what the reader was talking about. I too have read typos, different story lines, what made no sense, wrong names, and was like, okay what? from the big houses too, and I do see that self-published authors are raked over the coals, wayyy more than a big house name. I wonder why that is?
@ Thread, someone please explain this to me? If you say typos in an author's book like Sherylin, Kim, or Charlaine, why do we automatically give them a pass, but we don't for indie authors?
Sarah wrote: "I always go back to the fact that yes we have the freedom of speech, but what many people forget is that our rights stop when they begin to infringe upon anyone else's rights. Criticism can be a wo..."
I completely agree :)
I completely agree :)
Lisa264544 wrote: "Sarah wrote: "I always go back to the fact that yes we have the freedom of speech, but what many people forget is that our rights stop when they begin to infringe upon anyone else's rights. Critici..."
and this is the problem too. I pretty much think that anyone can see or say, that attacking an author because you don't or didn't like their work is rude, anyway you slice it, and adding "We have Free Speech" doesn't make it right.
and this is the problem too. I pretty much think that anyone can see or say, that attacking an author because you don't or didn't like their work is rude, anyway you slice it, and adding "We have Free Speech" doesn't make it right.
Mixedbagreader wrote: "My 2 cents is that there can be sloppy, abrupt, and melodramatic ways of stating our reactions to the books we read... But at the end of the day, this site is made for readers and not authors. It s..."
You are misunderstanding standing the thread.
You are misunderstanding standing the thread.
Mixedbagreader wrote: "My 2 cents is that there can be sloppy, abrupt, and melodramatic ways of stating our reactions to the books we read... But at the end of the day, this site is made for readers and not authors. It s..."
For all you people out there who keep saying, "If authors can't deal, get out of the business, whine whine, I have the right to my opinion, you are obviously missing the point, which Lel is too nice to point out.
No one said, that a reader doesn't have the right to say, "This book sucks!" cuz who could stop you anyway? trolls are trolls. Yes you do, as for this being a place for readers only, i disagree, or the staff wouldn't have allowed authors to be on here.
My point is this! Yes, you do have a right to say a book sucks, it was crap or whathave you ( cuz most of the people on here do, cuz they think only their opinion matters, and we mindless drones should follow them, cuz their God) however, i wonder if you would feel the same if someone said "You suck", which is what this is about.
This is NOT about giving your honest opinion, it was about, do readers have the right to attack authors. And my answer is No, especially if the author hasn't done anything to you, said anything to you or what have you. And equally, authors don't have the right to attack readers!
I'm not a writer, but i wonder for all the trolls who do give "Their honest opinion" would you feel the same if someone said that about them. You do have the right, but it doesn't allow you to be rude, callous, or a A-hole, just cuz you can be.
For all you people out there who keep saying, "If authors can't deal, get out of the business, whine whine, I have the right to my opinion, you are obviously missing the point, which Lel is too nice to point out.
No one said, that a reader doesn't have the right to say, "This book sucks!" cuz who could stop you anyway? trolls are trolls. Yes you do, as for this being a place for readers only, i disagree, or the staff wouldn't have allowed authors to be on here.
My point is this! Yes, you do have a right to say a book sucks, it was crap or whathave you ( cuz most of the people on here do, cuz they think only their opinion matters, and we mindless drones should follow them, cuz their God) however, i wonder if you would feel the same if someone said "You suck", which is what this is about.
This is NOT about giving your honest opinion, it was about, do readers have the right to attack authors. And my answer is No, especially if the author hasn't done anything to you, said anything to you or what have you. And equally, authors don't have the right to attack readers!
I'm not a writer, but i wonder for all the trolls who do give "Their honest opinion" would you feel the same if someone said that about them. You do have the right, but it doesn't allow you to be rude, callous, or a A-hole, just cuz you can be.
This is an interesting topic. I think some people are rude in general and I wonder why. I am an author and I have no problem with getting a 1 star review, it's going to happen. I haven't found a book out there that doesn't have them--even my favorites. I personally think it's okay when people say they hated a book because if they're giving it 1 star they did. I just don't like reading personal attacks in reviews. It seems to happen more in really popular books like Twilight and 50 Shades. I hate reading some of the nasty reviews where a reader is saying the author shouldn't be "allowed" to write. That's rude in my opinion. The other thing I'm finding prevalent and extremely rude is nasty comments on my reviews (especially 50 shades) I delete comments every day from my reviews from people I don't even know who feel they need to berate me because I enjoyed the book. I even had someone make crude comments about my sex life. Why does giving an honest opinion about a book I read open me up to criticism just because my opinion differs from someone else's?
Like I said, I don't mind honesty, but the personal attacks are too much IMO.
Sobe wrote: "Mixedbagreader wrote: "My 2 cents is that there can be sloppy, abrupt, and melodramatic ways of stating our reactions to the books we read... But at the end of the day, this site is made for reader..."Attacking each other isn't going to further this discussion, either. Mixedbagreader has a valid point -- this site is made for readers to roam in their natural habitat, to behave as badly as they want; and if they act like trolls, we are free to ignore them. It's like a dog park: you don't get to be pissy when your kid gets stepped on by a Great Dane; it's not your kid's park.
Unfortunately, there are real world implications for readers behaving badly -- authors can suffer from bad reviews. But if you watch ratings over time, it does average out. Movies, for example, tend to average to a 3.5 star rating after a few years; books do the same.
The reviews shouldn't be personal, ideally. But we take everything personally eventually. And the best books strike a chord with us, resonating with our own emotions or memories, on that personal level. And when a book is done badly, that attempt to strike that chord can feel horribly manipulative, angering the reader enough to make us strike back in the only way we can: the review.
As for editing, if you've ever been employed as an editor then you know that bad editing can indeed ruin a book for you. Instead of enjoying the story, the characters, and the world building, I have a mental red pen that I use to note every misspelled word, every grammatical error, every poorly constructed sentence. And I fix it all as I read. Very few stories can survive that kind of scrutiny.
The first book I read by Amy Lane, Vulnerable, was stuffed, littered, packed with mistakes. No page went by without half a dozen problems. But she wrote such a good story that her book is one I'll always reread and keep, and I'm still looking forward to the next in the series. Though I truly wish she'd re-release the first three after a solid editing.
So I cherish a review that warns me of punctuation, spelling, grammatical, and other problems, because that will ruin the book for me.
And if I want to give a review that says, "Didn't like it. Author loves the word 'ravish.' Won't read the next," that's my prerogative. I get paid well to edit and fix other people's writing. If the author wants to hire me to give them constructive criticism, they can contact me. Otherwise, they need to remember to be grateful that someone cared enough to read their book, give it a few stars, and say something about it.
It's nice to get a peek on the other side of the fence, thanks Alexandria
My sister usually refers to self-publishing as something like Youtube or a food truck. The end product will probably not be as finely polished as something you would get from a more mainstream source, but that's not why you're there. You want something unique, which can't be found on TV or in a chain restaurant. The readers are after something that can't be found in books published by corporations, who have no respect for nuturing cult/niche type books or with respecting artistic vision. So, I think a few issues with details like proofreading are to be expected. At the moment, profit margins on self-publishing are shockingly low (even before the crippling tax you have to pay on all royalties). At the end of the day, an author has to choose between having a book professionally proofread (which, as has been said, is also not foolproof) or passing those costs on to the readers. Personally, I'd rather pay a few dollars less for a book and endure a couple of misplaced plurals and repeated words.
Elizabeth wrote: "My sister usually refers to self-publishing as something like Youtube or a food truck. The end product will probably not be as finely polished as something you would get from a more mainstream sou..."I've read Elizabeth's sister's books, and they're genius. They have a few editing errors in them, but not enough to ruin the stories, which are fabulous!
And therein may lie the difference. A huge quantity of errors ruins a book. But if the story is brilliant enough, we'll forgive a writer a great deal. So it's back on the writers. Write a good enough story, and I'll forget the real world enough to put down my professional red pen.
My reviews can sometimes be a little harsh but I use Goodreads as a journal of my reading experience. I devour so many books that it helps to keep track of what I loved, hated, and why. This site is better for honest reader feedback than Amazon mainly because of the unfiltered reviews to me. That site has burned me because of all the fake glowing reviews. I'm not consciously mean but if it's a DNF, I have to list why for my own records. The fact other people might be reading them doesn't even factor into what I type.That being said a couple of my "loves" have been personally liked by the authors so it's a take-the-good-with-the-bad type of thing. This site is tame when you compare it to Youtube.
Jen wrote: I've read Elizabeth's sister's books, and they're genius. They have a few editing errors in them, but not enough to ruin the stories, which are fabulous! ..."
Oh, don't say that. They'll be no talking to her now. I can see it now: I'll be like, "Cassie? You know there's a difference between 'scrapped' and 'scraped,' right?" and she'll be like "Shut up! Jen says my work is genius and that I don't have to pay attention trivial details like spelling." :)
Actually, we have like 3 or 4 people reading those books (myself included), each at least twice, and typos still somehow slip through. And Cassie only missed two questions total on her entire SAT verbal section, so it's not a question of her not understanding language rules. I've come to the conclusion that some people can be proofreaders, and some people just can't. Very annoying.
Paganalexandria wrote: "My reviews can sometimes be a little harsh but I use Goodreads as a journal of my reading experience. I devour so many books that it helps to keep track of what I loved, hated, and why. This site..."Veeery true. Youtube comments make me depressed for humanity. I have to remind myself it's not a GOOD example of humanity.
As for being harder on self published books: In a way, it's true. My blog is open to review them, and unfortunately I've gotten very critical even just over the last few months, because I have seen some BAD books. As in, so bad I can't get through the first page because there are no breaks in between dialogue and I have no idea who is talking.
There are also good ones of course. Sadly self pubbing has a reputation, and I think it will take a little while to go away.
That said, I personally hold traditionally published books to a higher standard while reviewing. Because they DO have an editing team, and they ARE in bookstores, and personally I think they should be at a certain level....
Paganalexandria wrote: "My reviews can sometimes be a little harsh but I use Goodreads as a journal of my reading experience. I devour so many books that it helps to keep track of what I loved, hated, and why. This site..."I do the same thing! I need to sort my books some way, I think GR is a great tool to do so!
You know the only thing that annoys me about traditionally published books - the bookstores recommend them even when they are rubbish, and we the stupid readers pay the higher price on their recommendation!This has happened to me several times... And I have lost a little faith in "stores" - Genuine reviews are the best marker every time. But, I still think people should review with courtesy & manners.
Personally, I have had some amazing feedback and have not been subjected to any malice or inappropriate language - I guess I am lucky or I worked very hard (I go with the second). My work is not perfect, I am my worst critic, but I sure try to make it as good as I can... I think this is the point. Any indie author who thinks they can just write a story & publish it immediately is kidding themselves. Take pride in your work, get beta readers if you don't want to pay for an edit. Listen to the advice people give you and be prepared to make radical changes if necessary.
I love this day & age... Never before has it been possible to talk about books like today! I think it's amazing. We just have to accept that for something good, there is usually something bad that follows! It's the way of the world! Just please don't write indies off yet, we have a lot to give... The time when only a select few got published is over.
Hope this adds to the debate,
Vanessa :) xx
Okay... this follows along this thread, and I have to do a mini-rant...Now, I'm not saying anyone HERE (meaning this thread, or this group) is like this...
there was an author (not going to name any names) who very recently went out of their way to BASH, and I mean publicly demean and single out, a reviewer friend of mine. This reviewer is consistent with her reviews and polite even when not thrilled with the writing, but does have a stricter personal interpretation of stars.... which according to GR policy, Readers can make up their own version of what their star ratings mean. Basically, this author not only publicly claimed my reviewer friend is a 'spiteful reviewer', warned other authors away from her, and basically claimed that because 1 and 2 ♥ ratings are detrimental to book sales, that if reviewers dislike a book, or have a problem (severe) with editing, that they should just NOT rate or review the book and just PM the author with our thoughts. I really disagree with this, and really think it was not only unkind, but also unprofessional for this author to say this in public chat rooms (especially when the reviewer is a member of those particular groups.)
While I think that reviews should be polite, include constructive criticism rather than subtle (or not-so-subtle) attacks, I don't feel it's our job as a reader/reviewer to 'sell' books. If we like it, or don't like it, sure- by all means- say if you would have bought it, if you would recommend it, or would say that you would not recommend it... but if I am given a book to review, it's not automatically my job to promote and/or 'boost your sales' for your book.
Sorry. It's authors like that one that make my blood boil, and perpetuate the stereotype that has been born in the last few years that authors cannot 'behave', especially Indie authors. I don't agree with the stereotype, I don't subscribe to it... but authors like that sure are not helping the matter.
Again, very interesting discussion here. I just want to say, that as a professional in this case that means the Author, should take in account that not everybody is gonna enjoy your book. You just can't please everybody, this is the same for all author, even when your a major hit like Cassandra Clare or Stephanie Meyer, there are as many people that don't like the books as there are that do.
However, it does not give anybody the right to attack the author. Same goes for other professions too, especially those involving creative minds.
OMG... I understand your anger! The best feedback I have had was from a reviewer on Goodreads! She loved my book but yet rated it a 3. I asked her politely (via a private message) to expand, and she gave me some brilliant advice! I respect the readers right to an opinion, especially on Goodreads. I think that any author who does not take the trouble to improve is missing a trick...
As a Teacher of Swimming & Maths I know that not every child learns the same way, you have to adapt your style to maximise results. Likewise with books, if you aim a book at the YA market, take the trouble to listen to your readership. A lot of the times the reason reviews are lower, is because the wrong reader read the book. Not every book is for everyone.
A lot of my friends are horrified that I have not read Lord of the Rings... Lol... Doubt I will ever read it! Ha ha - and yet, I know this book is considered to be like a bible amongst fans! And yet, I am a Twilight fan - what can I say, I love vamps and romance!
But, back to the thread. Just because others act in a way that we do not respect does not mean we should start doing the same. I still maintain that we should try to remain polite to all, regardless. My conscience is clear. I have rated books at a 2 star... And I have given my reasons. Honesty is important.
But, it is good to see you stand up for a friend... No one should put up with bullies. My son gets bullied at school and it's awful. The Internet makes it easier for some people to act a certain way and get away with it. We should not let this happen.
V :) xx
When evaluating a book, I don't hold self/small-pubbed books to a different standard than mainstream published books. From both, I have no problem overlooking an occational typo or mistake, but if the number add up to where they distract me from the story, then my opinion of the book drops. For the money I spend, I expect a quality product in the storytelling, editing/proofreading/formating and writing skill.
I'd have to feel pretty passionate about a book to hate it or attack the author. If an author is able to evoke that type of passion in me, then in my opinion, they must be doing something right. If I don't like a book, I just don't finish it.People like to be snarky, plain and simple, but I think self-published authors are easier to criticize because they are seen more as peers. After all, the reader--if they choose--can become a self-published author.
Yes, this reviewer friend of mine... if she really likes a book, her average rating is still 3. You have to blow her away to get a 4... and I'm not sure if ANYTHING other than maybe like LOTR or something along those lines got a 5. She's 'strict' in her interpretation, but consistent at the same time. Basically, a 3♥'s from me is a 'bad' rating, but her 3♥ is the equivalent of a 4♥ from me. But to label her as a 'spiteful' reviewer when (for example) one review where she did find significant editorial issues, a single sentence is listed that there were editorial issues present. Not that they were horrid, or totally ruined the book because of misspelled words.... nothing like that. It was a single note that there were some editing problems. And this author, because of that one review of 3♥'s on their book, and that one note (among others in addidtion to level-headed things listed in a non-ugly way) labels that reviewer "Spiteful" and goes out of their way to blackball them?I think that's just ugly. It's behavior like that that created the anti-GR Blog-that-must-not-be-named (if you don't know what I'm talking about, count yourself lucky.)
There is a lot of good advice on this thread. I agree with most: be professional, remember everyone is entitled to their own opinions, & if you want to know more contact that reviewer directly.As an author, I have had both good and bad reviews. I am a member of the Romance Authors of America, and have discussed the subject of reviews at length with many of my peers in the local chapter I belong to. The response is always the same. No matter what, be professional. People will remember the way you respond to reviews whether they be good, bad, or indifferent.
While it is hard to hear negative reviews, (after all, your book is your baby), they can be constructive. Take the underlying message from the review, such as: do my characters need work, or the plotline has holes. Use that advice to improve on your writing. There is a reason it is called a craft.
As for self-pub, I myself have tried to self pub but have decided against it. It is just too hard to find all the little errors in my own works. Sending my book through a professional editor/publisher works better for me. I have recently sold a four book series that I had self-pubbed to Books To Go Now, and when they came back from the publisher I thought the manuscripts were bleeding (metaphorically speaking of course). I would recommend sending your MS through a professional editing service before attempting to self-pub. Badly edited books leave a bad taste in the readers mouth, and they won't come back for more.
Congratulations Serena, glad things are going great for you! :) xxI have been on an Amazon forum recently and heard an interesting point of view. Readers do not like to be stung be higher prices when a self published author goes mainstream... Just something to bear in mind.
I will stick to my journey for now, come what may... I am and always will be a reader first, writing is my hobby! Should anyone read and like my work I will be honoured. If they don't then fair enough. The harshest critics have been my family - they never give me an easy ride! I don't know why readers think family give great reviews... My parents still have not even read one of my short stories! Ha ha... And my sister were brutally honest. I bawled my eyes out, got over it, and aimed to improve. It's all good.
Missyb wrote: "I think manners are being left behind in all aspects of life, and it's carrying over into people's reviews. The next time you go somewhere, see who holds a door for who, or who says excuse me or T..."AMEN SISTER! I posted a comment earlier in this thread expressing the same opinion. I couldn't agree more; it is my biggest pet "peeve".
AlexandriaI hear you... If you change all of that it's no longer your story, is it? Ha ha...
Yep, "constructive, not destructive, criticism" LOL
Paranormal Romance & Urban Fantasy
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I think perspective is important, and I don't know that our "critic culture" (pro or otherwise) understands how much outside forces influence how we think and feel about things. I have seen critics fight with their companion before the lights go down in the theater, only to see a scathing review a few days later. Was it really the show, or the fight that preceded it?
I do hate the reviews that just go off on the grammar. If it's *that* bad, well OK. But honestly, it's hard to pull off 75k plus words error free, even with multiple passes by professional editors. I see a ton of novels from big publishing houses coming out with grammatical errors, typos and, even more often, continuity errors. Usually, I'll go Huh? but then move on. The story either grabs me, or it doesn't.
I do notice that indie authors seem to be taken to task for editing problems more so than the published authors. I am sure there are more errors in indie--it is the nature of the beast after all--but sometimes I wonder if indie authors are being held to a higher standard than the published ones simply because there was no gatekeeper.
I read one review that really went off about grammar issues in an indie novel, so I bought the book to see for myself. Whatever issues in that book are also present in books released by pub houses.