The Sword and Laser discussion
John Dies in the End - or does knowing the ending spoils the book?
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Rodrigo wrote: "With that in mind, I did a highly scientific research (ie: asked my cockatiel's opinion, he is quite wise) and came up with: "if the story is really good, knowing the end doesn't spoil it". The corollary being: "knowing the ending only spoils the story if it is a crappy story to begin with".I agree with this completely.
I saw the movie of Shutter Island and knowing the ending didn't ruin the book for me. (Of course, I knew the ending before I saw the movie too.) Sometimes, the craft of how the twist is hinted at actually enhances the experience for me. I liked "The Sixth Sense" more the second and subsequent times I saw it because I knew what the twist was and it was cool seeing just how it was hinted at throughout the movie.
(view spoiler)
In cases like a Bond film, LoTR, etc the fun is in the journey. We all know Bond will survive and kill the bad guy. We know, even the first time we read it, that Frodo will succeed in destroying The Ring and that Sauron will lose. I assume that in the Wheel of Time series, Good wins. In books/series like that the challenge is then to make the journey entertaining and worthwhile to take. In LotR Tolkien creates a living, breathing MiddleEarth that feels like a place we could visit. Exploring that is fun enough. In a Bond film it's like a rollercoaster ride - how will Bond do X and get out of situation Y? For both good and bad, most books are like this... but some aren't
For example, in GoT, what's going to happen at the end? Has GRRM established enough of an unpredicatable ruthlessness that we simply can't know? Do we want books where we really can't predict the end and everything's at risk? What if Sauron had won? If Frodo died on the slopes of Mt Doom after destroying the Ring. If Bond simply walked away mid-mission because M betrayed him?
I read about a study a while ago that concluded that knowing spoilers doesn't actually ruin anything and actually adds to the enjoyment you get because you are anticipating the good part coming up. I know that's true for me; I've enjoyed movies like The Sixh Sense and Fight Club more the second time through when I've been looking for clues to the "surprise". I don't reread books much anymore due to "too much to read" syndrome but I imagine I would enjoy Ender's Game even more a second time.
One of the sort-of recent S&L picks (FlashForward, I think) had the description of the event in the publisher's blurb. I seem to remember thinking at the time that I would have enjoyed the book more if I, the reader, had gone through the same act of discovery that the characters had to, I would have most likely been more "into" the characters. I'm currently reading "The Rook" and enjoying learning as the main character does, since she has amnesia.Overall, I don't think a spoiler ruins much for me. I typically read spoiler posts...in some cases, spoilers have been the reason I've pushed on through a book or part of a book I'm not enjoying. I want a good story, and if it's good, I don't mind learning things in advance.
Sandi wrote: "Rodrigo wrote: " I liked "The Sixth Sense" more the second and subsequent times I saw it because I knew what the twist was and it was cool seeing just how it was hinted at throughout the movie."The problem with spoilers is, however much more you might have enjoyed the second and subsequent times you watched The Sixth Sense, you will never again be able to experience the film the way you originally did, without even suspecting the twist. Someone blurted out that particular spoiler to me on the day I was going to see the film, and the twist always looked so obvious to me, because I saw it that way from the beginning, and that is not the way the film was supposed to be. I'll never know if it would have come as a surprise.
It's different when things deliberately present a future event, because then the book or film or whatever leads and misleads you on the journey of how something came to be.
I'm a big fan of re-reading, because I do enjoy the alternative perspective of knowing what is coming, but I hate to be robbed of my first, untainted, view of the work the way it was intended.
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I've read a lot, and seen even more movies. I'm not often surprised. When I am, it's usually great.
Sixth Sense was great the first time, and fun the second time to see all the hints I missed the first time. After that, men.
I just watched the Usual Suspects recently and while enjoyable, it's just not the same as the first time. Plus it's "spoiled" a ton of movies that have come since and try to copy the twist, or at least something similar.
Rodrigo wrote: "So I was browsing some indie movie titles, and stumbled upon "John Dies in the End" (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1783732). It is a somewhat bold title, hinting at the ending of the story. And that ..."In regards to John Dies at the End (view spoiler)
Gah, not reading every thread fail, my apologies.
As I've said probably too often, I hate suspense and insist on spoilers whenever possible. But I also like watching how it's done a whole lot. It's a kind of synergy - both aspects work together.
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The best spoiler film title would have to be:
The Assassination of Jesse James by the Coward Robert Ford.
OK, Not actually a spoiler if you've studied American west history.
It's what the director did with the film that made it a good film.
We all went into Titanic knowing the ending. Well most of us did
(For the record I hate that film)
It's about the journey, not the destination.
Hmmm, it's interesting how many people seem to be talking about spoilers giving away the ending, but spoilers can be for any part of the film. We all knew (or most of us did) what happened to the Titanic, but there were still plenty of things in the film that could have been spoiled, things like how the old woman survived, etc.Also when there is mystery in a film, the 'journey' is often about discovering what the mystery is, so if you already know, you can't really follow along.
And I don't have any favourite films or books that were spoilt when I first experienced them. I know how I felt about them when I didn't know what was coming. Re-watching won't take that away.
Ruth wrote: "Hmmm, it's interesting how many people seem to be talking about spoilers giving away the ending, but spoilers can be for any part of the film."True. But people are talking about giving away the ending because that was the issue I (with the help of my trusted sidekick) raised :)
Your point is not lost, tho, and it is somehow related to my original point. I also think that giving away the journey is worse than giving away the ending.
Rodrigo wrote: "True. But people are talking about giving away the ending because that was the issue me (with the help of my trusted sidekick) raised :)"Haha, good point! I'd kind of forgotten about that. >.<
The Sword and Laser
Books mentioned in this topic
John Dies at the End (other topics)Shutter Island (other topics)
Sometimes a book will start telling you the end, usually first person narration, and the story is "how I've got there". Sometimes we will read a book after watching the movie. Sometimes, we will read the spoiler somewhere. For me, at least, more often than not, that doesn't spoil my pleasure of reading it. Quite the opposite. Quite often I will get stuck with the "how the hell did he goes from here to there? it is impossible" feeling, which only adds to my pleasure.
With that in mind, I did a highly scientific research (ie: asked my cockatiel's opinion, he is quite wise) and came up with: "if the story is really good, knowing the end doesn't spoil it". The corollary being: "knowing the ending only spoils the story if it is a crappy story to begin with".
I know that is true and accurate because my cockatiel told me so, and I'm pretty sure he read it on the internet somewhere.
So, what are some of your favorite books where the ending was known?
Lemme start:
- "1984" (Seen the movie before)
- "God Emperor of Dune" (The introduction of the movie hints at the ending)