Question 3. Relationships

[Ashley]

WERE THE RELATIONSHIPS BETWEEN VARVARA AND ELIZABETH AND VARVARA AND CATHERINE BELIEVABLE?

[Lauren]

No. Varvara suffers from Rory Gilmore Syndrome: everyone loves her, but for no discernible reason. I understood the initial bond between her and Catherine, but I didn't understand how Varvara managed to stay in both Elizabeth and Catherine's good graces. The current and future empresses are supposedly both selfish, manipulative women pitted against each other, yet somehow Varvara is never used as a pawn? She's somehow above having to pick sides?

I really wanted this book to delve into the complexities of these two relationships (three if you include the one between Catherine and Elizabeth). I wanted a meaningful story about three powerful women interacting. But instead it was all very shallow and - not polite, but much more drawing-room gossip than palace intrigue. I didn't understand why these relationships maintained over the years - why Varvara continued to be a favorite of both, and, to some extent, why Varvaya wanted to continue within the intrigue. When the big exeunt to Western Europe occurs, I didn't quite understand why. For me, it was too subtle and, frankly, it didn't make sense.

[Carol]

As an orphan she has no family so when young Catherine comes to the palace, she befriends the young princess and protects her when she can. However, since this is not part of her mission and it is decided that she is too close to the German princess. Varenka as the princess calls her is soon married to a soldier, leaving her beloved friend, Catherine, to the political wiles of court life. For Barbara, life is pale until her daughter, Darya, is born. As her daughter toddles about, she is summoned to return to the royal household. Catherine has lost two babies and is carrying another under the watchful eye of the empress who controls her every move.

The story is essentially Barbara's but how Catherine's life affects Barbara's own is fascinating. I liked Stachniak's fictional story. It was interesting and gives a different picture of the person Catherine might have been. The historical background compares to that used in Catherine the Great but not in nearly as much detail.

[Ashley]

Wow, I can't believe I'm the one falling in the I-didn't-think-it-was-so-bad category! I'm usually on the critical side! Maybe it's the sleep deprivation, or the fact that when I'm reading these days, I'm so excited to be inside a story (instead of changing diapers, washing bottles, or working) that I let everything crappy slide.

So, was their relationship believable? Eh, it's a stretch, but Stachniak sets up their girlhood friendship to lend some credulity to carry us through the book, which I thought worked (from a plotting perspective). Also, any gaps of believability were, I thought, handled when Varvara realizes she wasn't the only friend/spy, and we see how calculating Catherine had been.

So, when we take into account that Varvara herself was somewhat duped as to how special her relationship with Catherine was, isn't there enough in the believability column? I mean, she thought they were BFFs, but she was more pawn than she realized.

Lauren: Rory Gilmore Syndrome! GASP! I mean, okay. I get it. But! But! Sigh. Best. Show. Ever.

[Lauren]

I liked the book, but the characters and their relationships were the weakest part for me.

Also? I like Gilmore Girls too, but come on, one of the weakest parts of the later seasons was the Infallible Rory Gilmore.

(On that note, are you still watching Bunheads?)

[Cheryl]

I SOOOO AGREE WITH YOU, LAUREN. I,TOO, WANTED MORE OF A STORY OF THREE POWERFUL WOMEN INTERACTING. TO ME, SO MUCH OF THESE RELATIONSHIPS WERE DRIVEL AND CONTRIVED INTRIGUE. I NEVER REALLY SAW ANY OF THE TRUE BFF STUFF. IT SEEMED TO BE MORE LIKE MANNERS AND SUPERFICIAL DIALOGUE.

[Lauren]

I agree, Cheryl - superficial is the perfect word!

It's funny, but reading over your post, my thoughts kept drifting to the film Our Idiot Brother. Our Idiot Brother is by no means a great film (although it is entertaining), but there's a scene where three sisters are talking and it's, without a doubt, one of the most authentic and realistic portrayals of women having a conversation I've seen on film. Both the actresses and the writers did an amazing job capturing the relationships and the history between the characters in a few words, and while watching it, it struck me how rarely relationships between women are portrayed in that manner, in any medium. Either it's superficial, as is the case in Winter Palace, or it's over-the-top emotion (whether drama or bitchy or sob stories).

Given the nature of the story of The Winter Palace and the intrigue, some catty girl-on-girl meanness was required, but I don't think Varvara would have last as long as she did without meaningful connections to both Elizabeth and Catherine.

[Carol]

Alright ladies, when our group first formed, there were lots of comments made about the characters in the sitcom "Friends." You gave me a brief intro as to who they were and a little of their personality. As a result, I probably have seen if not all, very close to all of the episodes since then, some several times and I've enjoyed it to!!!! Can you help me as to the Gilmore Girls? I've not even heard of them, or the Bunheads! Fun to learn new things and have new experiences... How does it relate to your discussions/this book if appropriate. Thanks - CJC

[Lauren]

Gilmore Girls was a TV show on the WB (and later the CW) that premiered in Fall 2000 and was about a mom and her teenage daughter. The twist was that the mom had been sixteen when the daughter was born, so she was only 31 / 32 when the series begins, and they're as much buddies as mom and daughter. It's set in quirky New England town, complete with the busybody head of the town council and the hunky owner of the local diner.

Bunheads premiered last summer and is written by the same woman who created Gilmore Girls. It's also set in a quirky small town (this time on the West Coast), only now it centers on a dance school, hence the name, which is a nickname for ballerinas.

Anyone else want to chime in and explain anything I missed or mistakenly stated?

[Ashley]

Um, only that Gilmore Girls is pretty much one of the best shows EVER.

And Bunheads, while darling and totally a show I watch, isn't quite on par with Gilmore Girls. But it's absolutely worth watching.

Time did a piece on the importance of Bunheads, which I thought was pretty spot on:
http://entertainment.time.com/2013/02...