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Is hijab liberation or oppression?
message 101:
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Lauren
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Jun 19, 2009 04:03AM
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it was they only thing that they felt they could do. they weren't smart (many couldn't even write their names), but were strong because of their physical jobs. put two and two together and you have a mass bloody rebellion.
Liz,there's a reason why men are the masters for the women..just have to be more open on the facts..dun opressed ur own mind thinking that the word 'master' is like what u find in the dictionary..
in my religion or accurately to say in my Holy Quran , it is told that men are the masters for woman..for they got even more responsibilities than us..they have the responsibilities to be a leader from a small community until the biggset one..
why?
because God has created men and women with different characters though we are all created with same entities..it is told that men are created to be more patience and have the ability to make decision using the mind and not from feelings that drives someone to do something..
if u're notice..we as a women always decide to do sumtin using the innocence , the heart which sumtimes are obviously wrong.i'm not blaming women cause i'm also a woman-to-be..
but if u do some research it is considerably true..
hehe..dun feel down babe..men and women are completing each other..good man for a good woman.. that's what my Holy Quran stated..
and be sure that human ain't perfect,ok?
so,it's normal if man and woman always do mistakes..
talking about the veil..
i am the one who wear the hijab eversince i was small..
never think if it's a burden..cause i'm doing that for God's sake..and never think that it's a kind of oppression..Islam never forces Muslim female to wear hijab eventhough it is obligatory for all MUslim female and there iis no exception unless for certain cases which are allowed..
but..even if u're not force to cover the aurah [ which is the whole part of the body except for your face and hands:]God will only gives the reward and bliss for those who reallt devoted to every single thing in Islam..if u're fail to cover the whole part, then u'll get the punishment not only in the Hereafter but also merely in this world..
this is not a threat..i just wnt to mention how crucial Muslims female have to hide and properly dress the outer parts and inner from everyone..
it is not enough to just response about the veil here..and u cannot just say that it's a kind of oppression..u hve to know more..asking more knowledgeable people about Islam..people who cnverted into this religion..
or if u want know more,i'm willing to do so.. trying the best i can..so that u can mke everything clarify..=))
#1 i do not need a man to complete me. i am an independent women who is capable of doing whatever i want. men being the masters of women is absolutely idiotic. the whole religion oppresses women, and makes them think they are inferior to men.
please read this..hope that u can get urself clearer..
i'l try harder to explain..
The Veil
A brief exploration of the complex topic of hijab and face-veiling in Islam
If the average non-Muslim were asked to name one thing about Islam, it could well be that women are required by Islamic Law to wear a veil and cover their faces in public. In fact, that is a gross simplification of a complex topic.
The Quran enjoins both men and women to dress modestly, and also speaks of covering women's adornments from outsiders of the family. All four of the major schools of Islamic law developed a code where women were expected to cover their bodies from the ankles to the neck and the arms above the elbow. But the veil itself, particularly a veil which covers the face, is much more controversial.
Many Islamic fundamentalist movements believe their religion prescribes the covering of women's faces - and they are in the headlines in one country or another almost very week for punishing women who fail to wear what they consider to be proper Islamic dress. But that is largely a political statement.
Traditional dress codes in fact vary sharply in different Muslim societies. In Iran, the black chador is traditional among wide sectors of society but among the bedouin of the Arabian peninsular, women wear scarves that cover their hair but leave their faces open - just like most of their men. The same is also true in Muslim areas of south-east Asia.
As political Islam is at least partly based on the 'Coca-Cola' invasion that followed the withdrawal of European colonial domination, the veil becomes a key part of the ideology. But it's important to recognise that Islam itself merely prescribes modesty rather than actually forcing the wearing of a particular garment. Some scholars, for example, suggest that as modesty means not drawing unnecessary attention to oneself, a woman wearing baggy jeans, a jumper and an unobtrusive scarf in a Western country could be more in accordance with the spirit of Islamic law than another woman who wore the full costume of an alien culture.
what is even the point of wearing a veil?
so it isn't in the bible or anything like that. it doesn't have any religious background?
by all means,mens can see everything inner just only by looking at our outer parts of the body..
and men is created with only one desire - sex..
they only see women for the sake of that..
and believe..if women do not cover the whole parts even not wearing the hijab , in fact,wearing tight clothing in which exposing and with the intention to attract people especially men , that is why we always heard of women being raped every single day..
there are so much significant on wearing veil for women..u may first think that wearing that never has the point..and there is nothing to do with the sexist term..veil is totally not equal to sexist..
i'm wearing veil guys..later i tell u more about that..
the women shouldn't have to suffer just because there might be a few crazy rapists out there. and that is more likely an excuse.
nope..it's not..and never..as i told u..Islam do not force the Muslim female to wear veil..same goes to me..i wear this veil not bcause i've been force by someone else..
in fact, i'm proud to wear that..sometimes i even want more..i'd wished to wear niqab [ something that covers 3/4 parts of your face..only eyes can be seen:]
i never force myself to wear..
and i only wear that because i feel the responsibility as a devotee..i've submitted myself to my God..means i haveto obligate everything as long as it not against the Islamic law..
let's say..eventhough i am a good Muslim but one day something bad happened to me..
it is call a fate..just like i told u in the other topic discussed..i just need to pray more and more..
God cannot be seen but u have to feel the presence..
i hate excuses..
in fact,Islam is always respects women and even put them to the highest position..
mmm,hve u heard a song by cat stevens a.k.a yusof islam - My Mother ?
actually,the whole lyrics is anther way to translate what the Holy Quran had mentioned inside.. mother is mentioned three times then only comes the father..
obviously to say,Islam never opress women but women are always opressing and violating themselves
sory...maybe it's matter of my communication would be the major problem here..insyaAllah , i know a lil bit..and for sure i know what & how the respects on woman means..
i just have a limited skills of delivering the information i have..
i am a woman..supposely to have the intention to rebels against the rights btween men and women..
what do you think of the respects for women would be?
i also quite suspicious on ur facts..
maybe ur the one with the different followers..
what in the world?seems that u have a very narrow-minded thinking for that..
yes..i am a slave.only for Allah..
i just afraid if u don't exactly know the term written..
slavery to a god who promotes murder and rape... sounds fun
please Liz..its kinda insultation..here,we are talking on the very sensitive issues..
we are talking about the religion..
i just hope you to be more respects on other's view..
no matter how u find it fun or whatever,just keep it urself..
respect people if u want to be respected,ok?
ya, it's a pleasure..and opinions are always opened...
i'm not an absent-minded thinker..
but when it comes to a religion somehow u have to be more cautious on what u'll deliver
Mod
Sexist.
".Islam never forces Muslim female to wear hijab eventhough it is obligatory for all MUslim female and there iis no exception"
Contradiction.
"mens can see everything inner just only by looking at our outer parts of the body..
and men is created with only one desire - sex..
they only see women for the sake of that..
and believe..if women do not cover the whole parts even not wearing the hijab , in fact,wearing tight clothing in which exposing and with the intention to attract people especially men , that is why we always heard of women being raped every single day.."
Legit, dumbest thing I've seen today. It's the guys fault for being stubborn and stupid and raping people. It's never a woman's fault.
And, SO WHAT if I like to wear tight clothes, if I like it when guys wink at me? There is nothing fundamentally wrong with it. If guys could learn to control their lust, we could have peace.
how am i being disrespectful? all i want to know is how you feel about the murder and rape that takes place in the bible.
women can't be responsible for the physconess of rapists
to Lauren :1)it's never a sexist..do not be too rigid in the way of thinking.'master' is not like what u urself defined.
u just misunderstood..it's not wrong for women to be a leader..go on!if u feel that u can lead people.. in some other nation they also find women are great to be a leader..for example , the prime minister for Sri Lanka and Bangladesh [ if i'm not mistaken are women:]
in my country,also,for some other Ministry or the line up in the Government are hold by women.. and Islam never said that women have to be a slave just because there is there is the word master..
female muslim are allowed to do what they want AS LONG AS THEY DO NOT AGAINST THE ISLAMIC LAW..
2)hve u ever met a Muslim who not wearing veil?
asking them why they do not wearing hijab?
asking if Islam had forced them to wear that? - no!
eventhough it is an obligation , it is not a force.. u have the right to decide either u want to wear it or not..but if one female Muslim decide to not cover herself with hijab , just have to wait what will she get sooner or later in the Hereafter..
hve u seen in nowhere parts of the world , female Muslim is punish for not covering aurah in the public?being oppress by other Muslim for not wearing hijab?i don't think so..and i never heard of it as well..
3)it's up to you if u want to dress , want to be beautiful,so that all men and others are looking at u..nver mind..Islam also promotes all Muslims to be beautiful.. but, in order to dress,female Muslim has to be properly dress where they have to cover the whole part..in Islam the intention to dress urself is not only to be beautiful but also to try as well from not being so attractive because somehow it might lead to the bad things like being raped or whatever..once u are so attractive,then u'll make every eyes to look at you..but for sure we cannot straightly stop people from looking at us..
just be well-dressed , loose and not transparent..
again,this is and obligation but Islam never force..
it's your choice..Muslim female are free..always free to do what they want..
to Liz :
1)everybody born with desire..and we cannot stop people from doing what they wish for..no matter how properly u dress urself,but still those creepy things happen , tht totally won't be ur mistakes..
for sure women can't be responsible for that..
there still women been raped or murdered by men though she covers the whole body..though she's hoping that the way she dress herself will not attracting nobody..but,what can we do?
because everybody's desiring different thing.. if she wants to not be attracted by other people , and the man desiring to rape her,that will be so much pathetic for the man and pitiful for the woman..
am i rite?we cannot stop people..but,believe me, every crimes and mistakes will be punish not only in life after death but also in the world..
to koe :
i don't get the point..
desire is just an emotion. wishing is just a simple thought of the brain. raping women is more than just desire and wishing. those people have serious mental problems and covering yourself won't help.
Chandani wrote: "No Lauren i really think you dont understand. My entire family is muslim, and though we dont wear Hijab, i understand the concept. Islam was once a religion of liberation, and of inner beauty. Th..."
That is the first time I have heard it explained like that, that is beautiful. I wonder if the catholic nuns have that same thought?
u're right..and those emotion sometimes caused by others..
sometimes we may not expect that our family would just do the bad things on us..
it might be mental problem..
but are u trying to say if the that thing happened to u and one of ur family did that then are u wnna say that ur family have a mental problem?
it may not caused from u but might be from others..
but then , u'l be the victim..
i believe that covering myself will help me
cause i believe in my God
and that is the underlying cause of why we are disagreeing. i do not believe in god and you do. so...
i got that..just have to stand on ur own point..
but it's a pleasure if u willing to at least know how Islam lead me and other Muslim's life..=))
i did enjoy reading your posts about islam and the way you live. i like learning new things :)
good to hear..by the way,i apologise for being quite harsh along the discussion..but,feel free to ask me for more.i'll try the very best i can..
by the way,if u don't mind..i want to know as well how's the way of ur living?
Mod
And Shari'a basically forbids everything anyway.
"2)hve u ever met a Muslim who not wearing veil?
asking them why they do not wearing hijab?
asking if Islam had forced them to wear that? - no!
eventhough it is an obligation , it is not a force.. u have the right to decide either u want to wear it or not..but if one female Muslim decide to not cover herself with hijab , just have to wait what will she get sooner or later in the Hereafter..
hve u seen in nowhere parts of the world , female Muslim is punish for not covering aurah in the public?being oppress by other Muslim for not wearing hijab?i don't think so..and i never heard of it as well.."
http://avideditor.wordpress.com/2009/...
She left her house without a male relative.
"but also to try as well from not being so attractive because somehow it might lead to the bad things like being raped or whatever..once u are so attractive,then u'll make every eyes to look at you..but for sure we cannot straightly stop people from looking at us.."
Should you never drive a car because you might crash? Never go outside because you might get sick? Bottling people up never solves the problem. In fact, Islamic countries often have the HIGHEST rates of murder and rape of women.
"there still women been raped or murdered by men though she covers the whole body..though she's hoping that the way she dress herself will not attracting nobody..but,what can we do?
because everybody's desiring different thing.. if she wants to not be attracted by other people , and the man desiring to rape her,that will be so much pathetic for the man and pitiful for the woman..
am i rite?we cannot stop people..but,believe me, every crimes and mistakes will be punish not only in life after death but also in the world.."
Tell the fucking guy to get a hold of his lust and deal with it. It's not her problem, it's HIS actions.
Liz is a deist, converted from...Catholic?
so what's the problem with going out without a male relative and the one that i mentioned bfore?i was talking about the veil..people are different.. i'm not telling u if all Muslims are good.just like other people in your own religion..and other religion as well..thre's nothing to do with the veil..
the one that was beaten by her father is anther story if you still want to know..but i bet that no female Muslims are beaten just because of wearing veil by her families or relatives or any other Muslims..
However,it does happen in some parts of western countries where Muslims female are forced even harshly beaten by non-Muslims because they are forced to not wear the veils e.g France..
''And Shari'a basically forbids everything anyway. ''
and please..give me a proof for that..
next,if u really find that most Islamic countries have the highest rating of raped and murder cases then are u really sure if the criminal is a Muslim?
Islamic countries doesn't tell u if the citizen is 100% Muslims..still,there are any other citizen with other religion..are u really think if all the Muslims are bad?
"Tell the fucking guy to get a hold of his lust and deal with it. It's not her problem, it's HIS actions."
ya,we knew that it was HIS action..but what did drive him to act vigorously to women? That guy might had been watching sexy women in the magazines , watching any pornographic pictures or cd's.. those things are possible caused for them to act for more..
You blamed for the guy but hve u think about the things that may cause him to do so??
i love people talk with facts
and figure.
Mod
Because, not only does it degrade women, seemingly incapable of defending themselves, they also get beat up an tortured when they don't obey/.
"the one that was beaten by her father is anther story if you still want to know..but i bet that no female Muslims are beaten just because of wearing veil by her families or relatives or any other Muslims..
However,it does happen in some parts of western countries where Muslims female are forced even harshly beaten by non-Muslims because they are forced to not wear the veils e.g France.."
Proof and example.
Sharia law was interpreted to ban a wide variety of activities hitherto lawful in Afghanistan: employment, education and sports for women, movies, television, videos, music, dancing, hanging pictures in homes, clapping during sports events, kite flying, and beard trimming. One list of prohibitions included:
pork, pig, pig oil, anything made from human hair, satellite dishes, cinematography, and equipment that produces the joy of music, pool tables, chess, masks, alcohol, tapes, computers, VCRs, television, anything that propagates sex and is full of music, wine, lobster, nail polish, firecrackers, statues, sewing catalogs, pictures, Christmas cards.[53:]
Men were required to have a beard extending farther than a fist clamped at the base of the chin. On the other hand, they had to wear their head hair short. Men were also required to wear a head covering.[54:]
Possession was forbidden of depictions of living things, whether drawings, paintings or photographs, stuffed animals, and dolls.[54:]
These rules were issued by the Ministry for the Promotion of Virtue and Suppression of Vice (PVSV) and enforced by its "religious police," a concept thought to be borrowed from the Wahhabis. In newly conquered towns hundreds of religious police beat offenders (typically men without beards and women who were not wearing their burqas properly) with long sticks.[55:]
Theft was punished by the amputation of a hand, rape and murder by public execution. Married adulterers were stoned to death. In Kabul, punishments were carried out in front of crowds in the city's former soccer stadium.
They were prohibited from working; from wearing clothing regarded as "stimulating and attractive," including the "Iranian chador," (viewed as insufficiently complete in its covering); from taking a taxi without a "close male relative" (mahram); washing clothes in streams; or having their measurements taken by tailors.[56:]
Employment for women was restricted to the medical sector, since male medical personnel were not allowed to examine women. One result of the banning of employment of women by the Taliban was the closing down in places like Kabul of primary schools not only for girls but for boys, because almost all the teachers there were women.[57:]
Women were also not permitted to attend co-educational schools; in practice, this prevented the vast majority of young women and girls in Afghanistan from receiving even a primary education.[58:] [59:]
Women were made to wear the burqa, a traditional dress covering the entire body except for a small screen to see out of. Taliban restrictions became more severe after they took control of the capital. In February 1998, religious police forced all women off the streets of Kabul and issued new regulations ordering "householders to blacken their windows, so women would not be visible from the outside."[60:] Home schools for girls, which had been allowed to continue, were forbidden.[61:] In June 1998, the Taliban stopped all women from attending general hospitals,[62:] leaving the use of one all-women hospital in Kabul. There were many reports of Muslim women being beaten by the Taliban for violating their version of the Sharia.
Movie theaters were closed and music was banned. Hundreds of cultural artifacts that were deemed polytheistic were also destroyed including major museum and countless private art collections. At the Kabul zoo most animals were killed or left to starve.[63:]
A sample Taliban edict issued after their capture of Kabul is one decreed in December 1996 by the "General Presidency of Amr Bil Maruf and Nahi Anil Munkar" (or Religious Police) banning a variety of things and activities: music, shaving of beards, keeping of pigeons, flying kites, displaying of pictures or portraits, western hairstyles, music and dancing at weddings, gambling, "sorcery," and not praying at prayer times.[56:] In February 2001, Taliban used sledgehammers to destroy representational works of art at the National Museum of Afghanistan.[64:]
Local festivities were not exempt from bannings. The Taliban banned the traditional Afghan New Year's celebration of Nowruz as anti-Islamic, and "for a time they also banned Ashura, the Shia Islamic month of mourning and even restricted any show of festivity at Eid."[65:] The Afghan people were not allowed to have any cultural celebrations if women were present. If there were only men at the celebration it would be allowed to go forth, so long as it did not go over the curfew time of 9:00 pm.
Taliban official Mullah Mohammed Hassan explained, "of course we realize that people need some entertainment but they can go to the parks and see the flowers, and from this they will learn about Islam." The Education Minister Mullahs Abdul Hanifi told questioners that the Taliban "opposes music because it creates a strain in the mind and hampers study of Islam."[65:]
When we tolerate the moderates, it give way to extremists. Therefore, not even moderates can have control.
"but what did drive him to act vigorously to women? That guy might had been watching sexy women in the magazines , watching any pornographic pictures or cd's.. those things are possible caused for them to act for more..
You blamed for the guy but hve u think about the things that may cause him to do so??"
The only thing that caused him to do that is his lack of self control and natural sadism. Plenty of guys go about their lives without raping every woman they see.
because what had been mentioned by Mullah about music is absolutely true..i'm the one who had already memorize the whole of Holy Quran..one day,i heard of a music and when o try to memorize back the verses in Holy Quran, i was a lil bit forgotten..many of Muslims todays had been influenced with the music-for-nothing..Islam do not prohibits Muslim to entertain themselves,but there is a guideline which we as a Muslim has to follow..
just want you to know..every single thing guided for Muslims is an order by our God..He knows us better cause everything was created by Him..but,people are easily forgotten..sometimes it did happened to me..
like i said just now,not every muslims are good. Muslims with a good faith and belief to his God will only perform well in everything in his life..
same goes to ur religion and others..people who really devoted to his or her belief will behave good..and the bad one will be on his way unless he or she is given a guidance after that..iit's possible for everyone..from bad to good and from good to bad..
Islam do tell Muslims how to give a lesson to someone who did mistake..
1) give him or her advice
2) if they refuse to listen , they can be beaten BUT in a soft way where there won't be any injuries on the person in the intention of giving him a lesson so that he oe she won't do the same thing again..
Islam hates violence just like other religion.. nobody loves to promotes violence unless for those who never have humanity..
Mod
Cause you were distracted by outside stimuli. It happens with EVERYTHING.
"2) if they refuse to listen , they can be beaten BUT in a soft way where there won't be any injuries on the person in the intention of giving him a lesson so that he oe she won't do the same thing again.."
Corporeal punishment isn't beneficial, it's degrading.
http://www.thealmightyguru.com/Humor/...
I don't think everyone agrees with you.
music - u don't know what it's like to be me,Lauren.. Holy Quran is a sacred revelation sent to all mankind.. to memorize it isn't an easy thing..even if u asked other Muslims,not everybody can memorize that..it takes at least for half and a year..it's not that i'm doing two things in a time..i heard it first then after that i tried to memorize..if u said that might be because of the stimuli or sumtin' then u're telling me that music really had distracting me huh..
u're so good in using other terms which sounds more metaphores,rite..it's never practically done in Muslims,but i'm so sure all people are doing the same thing as well..and some day when u are becoming a mother and ur children don't listen to you,u might also give them 'the punishment'.. i bet that will happen..
it's up to anyone..i'm not forcing anybody to agree.. it's ur right to choose and it also my right to deliver what my religion had told me to do..
mmm,as long as we are fine in having this discussion..
and hope that u will find this religion isn't like what u've heard about the bad things regarding to us..
Mod
I will never hit my own children. To do so is not only cruel to them, it breaks every maternal instinct to PROTECT children from harm.
"and hope that u will find this religion isn't like what u've heard about the bad things regarding to us.. "
There may be extremists and crazy people, but they still call themselves Muslims.
how about people form ur own religion..being extremists and they still call themselves also as the people of ur religion..somehow,u just can see other people mistakes without even looking at urselves..
i've been noticed eversince i'd the very first talk with u..i'm not blaming u..
i'm blaming myself cause i can convince u until this very moment..
and it is a sad thing cause i can't help as much as other Muslims outside who sacrificing themselves for God's sake..
"I will never hit my own children. To do so is not only cruel to them, it breaks every maternal instinct to PROTECT children from harm."
it's easier to say than done.
Mod
The No True Scotsman Fallacy. Only people you agree with are members of your religion, and the rest are crazy.
"it's easier to say than done. "
If a mother ever feels it so needed to hit her own child, does she deserve a child at all.
Blaming yourself for what?
they are not crazy..they just need time to change..they are also like us..a human..somehow,they don't asked to be like that..give them a chance..
it depends on u and other people..the way u treat ur child..different people has dfferent ways to perform..
sometimes,the way that u think might be crazy to do would be the best way..
mmm..that thing..having a talk,exchanging with others had make me feel so pathetic..then i realize there stil to much things i haven't done..
Mod
u're right...might be bunch of the people..it's the world to be blamed , and also people who bring them into the matters..
we need to help them..but then if they refused , we can just respect and let them go..
Mod
mmm,well,i should change the meaning..not to respect but we'll try to make everything under control..
i never respects for those things but if there is a person under the circumstances , we can't obviously show the objection but try to use a way which can give a better solution..
people hate to be treated in negative ways..no matter how solid an iron once it is heaten on the fire sooner or later it will be melt..
just like human,try to use the more polite and softens ways...somehow,it will straightly go into the heart
that's what i told u bfore..it depends on someone..
depends on how you want to treat ur children..
if you feels that by giving advice and other way except on hitting are the best, then just go on with ur own way..
and please..i'm worry if u think on how the word hit means..i alrdy told u how Islam provide the guidelines to give a lesson to your children..
"Islam do tell Muslims how to give a lesson to someone who did mistake..(applicable on children)
1) give him or her advice
2) if they refuse to listen , they can be beaten BUT in a soft way where there won't be any injuries on the child on the intention of giving him a lesson so that he or she won't do the same thing again.."
i tell u again..Islam never promotes violence.never.
Islam is a religion which promotes peace and serenity.and it's not only Islam but it also does mention in all religion as well..open up ur mind..
who in the world will really love war and those creepy ideas??what will you get for being like criminals and monsters?nothing and useless..
Islam allowed things that will give no harm and good to all mankind..it's not only applicable to Muslims but others,too..no need to be so rigid on my view..u'd been given a healthy mind,u can think on ur own which one is good or not..
are u islamophobia or something?just tell me if you are..mmm,let's be professional in this discussion.. i love when people want to know more about Islam..
u have ur own belief..u dun believe in God but i do..i swear in the name of Allah,that everything He made and all the things He had instructed on us to do has the reasons..because i'd experienced a lot of things and He had shown me why it all happened to me though it brings harm and grief..
i tell u a story of mine..i was a naughty girl eversince i was small..it was hard for my parent to control me..i lied and i've been doing things that any other girls at my same ages wouldn't do..i've been canned, tied at the staircase for the whole night and everything..
but i never regret..today,when i think that over again,i'd realized those things had changed me to be better..much better..i knew it gives me pain,but let's think twice..for what reason do a mother or dad beat me if i did mistakes and being so stubborn,did not respect and obey to the parents? i think i deserved for that..but if your children behave good,please don't act silly..i might be a bad girl today if they never punish me on every mistakes i'd done..even until this time,eventhough the do not hit me no more, they would still give advices because it's a responsibility and they will be asked by God in the Hereafter if they failed to teach their children..
i know,most people won't hve the same opinions as mine..u'll be telling me if those are violence..
and others might think different from me..
so let's do which we are prefers to..i never force you to take it but different views come from different people..
"Exactly how does that mesh with the idea that Islam, or any religion, makes people or governments better?" - again,i dun get the point..
Mod
If that happened in American, it would be considered child abuse, and you would have been taken away from whoever did that.
Islam, at one point, was probably quite peaceful, but it's been corrupted by fundamentalists.
"Islam, at one point, was probably quite peaceful, but it's been corrupted by fundamentalists. "that was freaky...we don't have a fundamentalists.. even a founder..
all the things is a message from Quran..and everything in the Quran is what comes from the God..and He's not the founder u're talking about..
"If that happened in American, it would be considered child abuse, and you would have been taken away from whoever did that. "
that probably also happen here..taken away from his or her parents IF they were totally abused with serious injuries and all that..
eversince Malaysia's official religion is Islam , the law will only applicable when it comes to a serious cases..here,we know that it is one of the teachings in Islam..
it won't be considered as a violence even by other races and religions..we're multiraces and know each other..sometimes,we do agree among ourselves even when we talk about religion or other sensitive issues
Mod
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_...
I beg to differ.
u're welcome to do so..wait for me to justify then..
then, u must have been mistaken from what u'd expected..
