Terminalcoffee discussion
Face Off! (Less Serious)
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Nun: This isn't what Jesus would do
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I REALLY like this comment, Sally, because I think that it is so true. I'm not too religious, but wouldn't it hold true that the thing that consumes a person for the most minutes out of the day would be that person's true God? For many typical Americans, that would be consumerism. (Uh oh, I think that my God, the one of snarky, off-topic Internet comments is angered by my recent lack of devotion...)
You know...i'll bet that Visa's CEO has a bejeweled hat that he wears when no one is looking...
Not to mention the long purple robes. Those are pimp!
Very true. I'll bet you're kicking yourself right now for not ordering the purple slanket, eh Sally?
This church closure thing is pretty common here...although they usually frame it as consolidation. It's interesting that they don't mention school closings at all; if the Catholic school connected to a parish closes, the parish seems all but done for, from what I can tell.Some schools/parishes, esp. in Latino areas, however, seem ok.
i have not seen or heard of any church closings here in my area. i think religion is fading but certainly not faith.I am sure that Bernie M. had the whole bejeweled get up including the fly robe
I believe in God, but I do not play the church game. Religion is a business, and has nothing to do with God and everything to do with money. I don't recall reading about Jesus hitting you up for money, building elaborate buildings with stained glass windows, and having some preachers richer, by far, than the religous and political leaders Christ opposed. I went to church. Then I found out that some of the people in church were the most immoral people I have ever met. Yes, yes, I know. There are bad apples everywhere. But I would rather give my money and help directly to people who need it than give it to a church, who skims off an unknown amount, and a few bucks actually get to the people who need it.
a tough one robert. you certainly have to believe in and trust those you are giving your money to. sadly some churches mishandle money in a way that makes it tough on other ones who are good stewards with donations. remember that many "non-religious" organizations also mishandle money. many have operating costs that basically eat up most of the money given BUT there are far more churches and organizations that are taking donations and growing them greatly by using them in the right ways. it is very difficult for an individual to disperse his own giving in a way that makes a difference. hand $20 to a guy on the street who looks hungry and he may smoke it up or buy lottery tickets. here is what i do, i give with the best intentions and giving heart to organizations and people i trust. and then also some randomly to people i don't even know. if my intentions were to help than i have done right, regardless of how it is finally used. [steeping off soap box:]
Welcome Robert, I understand what you're saying, but the pastors in a church are being paid to preach/spread the word, and to comfort those who need it. So maybe it comes down to what you believe their job descriptions should be. I'm not sure that a church is needed to have faith, but the building and those working there are more for the affirmation, and a considerable amount of people need the affirmation, you appear to be strong enough in your faith not to need that.
I agree there are a lot of immoral people in a church, as well as in quite a few other charitable organizations. If you are concerned about how your money is going to be handled there are plenty of ways to do research to ensure you get the most bang for your buck. The other is to give without any constraints knowing that you've done what you can and hoping the recipient will do their part also.
I agree there are a lot of immoral people in a church, as well as in quite a few other charitable organizations. If you are concerned about how your money is going to be handled there are plenty of ways to do research to ensure you get the most bang for your buck. The other is to give without any constraints knowing that you've done what you can and hoping the recipient will do their part also.
American brand Christianity has been largely corrupted by consumerism, but so also have the so-called New Age religions. Whether we are speaking of the minister for a mega church telling his parishioners that God wants them to be wealthy and that wealth is a sign of God's favor or the proponents of the Secret claiming that untold riches are waiting for each of us to claim from a benevolent rich uncle universe, Americans everywhere are worshiping money. Perhaps the current crapacious economy will shift our collective yearning for faith and meaning back to the spiritual and away from the material...or we may simply decide to stop worshiping the all mighty dollar and switch over to the adulation of the Euro or some other more stable currency.
I agree that Americans worship in the cult of consumerism and it's disturbing. But I don't think all churches are that way. Robert, I understand what you're saying but I think there are immoral hypocrites everywhere. I know some very self-serving atheists who claim to be compassionate and generous. I actually do not believe in God and am not a Christian but I have friends who are and whose faith is extremely important to them. A good friend of mine is an Episcopal minister and he is not rich by any means and is rally in it to counsel and help people. My father was a Lutheran minister and although I think he was a jerk back then (he is now a Buddhist) he barely survived financially. I remember his frustration after one service where someone congratulated him on his sermon and what he had said but had gotten the exact opposite message than he intended. The purpose of a church is to build community and a support network. Many of us do that without a church or in different institutions but for many people it's a lifeline away from loneliness and isolation. And whether we like it or not, our country was founded on judeo-christian values.
Interesting to me.
I once made a comment in class (that earned me some enemies, I'm sure. BTW a class where I was a student, not one that I teach) that Americans have not only been losing their religion for long time but their religion is now the cult of consumerism.
For every instance we now swipe our debit cards daily, a similar self three hundred years ago would have been saying a Hail Mary. So perhaps we're not completely without religion completely, just without one that is led by a man in the Vatican City wearing a bejeweled hat.