Georgette Heyer Fans discussion
Heyer in General
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Where do you get your Heyer?
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Jenny wrote: "Nearly all GH's surnames are placenames, so the pronunciation will be the same as that used for the place. That makes 'Brough' 'Bruff' and 'Beaumaris' 'Byoo marris' - that's in Wales and the Welsh ..."Re. pronunciation differing in 'Beaumaris' in Wales, it's probably a North/South variation as the accents are very different. I am in South Wales where it would be pronounced 'boe-marris' as you said and I should think that the Visit Wales voice overs are more likely to sound South-Walian rather than North.
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Jenny wrote: "Surely the Welsh spelling 'Biw-' isn't going to be pronounced 'Boe' even in the South? ..."The South (or part of it) was called "Little England" because it was more English than Welsh in many ways, including the way they spoke. I've only ever heard the Bo-marris pronunciation.
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Jenny wrote: "Ceri wrote: "Re. pronunciation differing in 'Beaumaris' in Wales, it's probably a North/South variation ..." I suspect it's more likely to be a variation between locals and 'outsiders'! Surely the ..."In the North they could be using the Welsh name for the place and in the South we would probably use the English name. It wouldn't surprise me if they pronounced it Boe-marris in the North too unless they were making a point of using the Welsh name (which I'm guessing the mayor would). There are a higher proportion of Welsh speakers in North Wales than in South Wales. I also don't know whether it could be a purposeful attempt to give a place a Welsh spelling rather than what the place was historically called. For example, some existing words have been incorporated into the Welsh language, like 'ambiwlance' is Welsh for ambulance and the word is just clearly given a spelling that reflects the same sounding word, perhaps a similar attempt was made here.
Re. the 'little England' comment, the part of Cardiff that I live in was actually part of England up until sometime late in the 1800s. We get local history leaflets through the letterbox sometimes. There were different drinking laws here than in the part of Cardiff that was classed as Wales so people would walk from Cardiff to drink in the area that I live, which was a village then, as you could drink in England on a Sunday afternoon while you couldn't in Wales!
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Jenny wrote: "Given the aristocratic penchant for mangling posh surnames (eg 'Chumley' for 'Cholmondeley' and 'Fanshaw' for 'Featherstonehaugh') the chances are that Mr Beaumaris's social circle pronounced it 'B..."That makes me smile. But taking up Lord Fleetwood's sobriquet form him, he will always be "the great Beaumaris" to me.
To answer the original question, "Where do you get your GHs?" let me say that today (June 1, 2015)"Venetia" and "The Reluctant Widow" are only $1.99 on Kindle. Not sure how long this lasts. Also, WHEN YOU PURCHASE THE KINDLE FIRST, you can purchase the companion Audlble unabridged audio book for an additional $1.99. That is a deep, deep discount. But you must the Kindle book first. It is the easiest thing to listen to a book on your phone. You can slow it down, speed it up, take notes, bookmark passages that will also show up in your Kindle copy, skip around, replay. And if I pull out my headphone cord to talk to someone, the book automatically stops. Stops, too, if I get a call. This is how I do most of my reading and it works for me. I have purchased 13 GH books books/audio books at these deep discounts. But I've had to be patient for the sales to come along.
Lori wrote: "To answer the original question, "Where do you get your GHs?" let me say that today (June 1, 2015)"Venetia" and "The Reluctant Widow" are only $1.99 on Kindle. Not sure how long this lasts. Also, W..."Thanks Lori!
Andrea (Catsos Person) is a Compulsive eBook Hoarder wrote: "Lori wrote: "To answer the original question, "Where do you get your GHs?" let me say that today (June 1, 2015)"Venetia" and "The Reluctant Widow" are only $1.99 on Kindle. Not sure how long this l..."You're so welcome, Andrea. It's so nice to scroll through my phone and have all my GH e or audio books spin past. I especially enjoy listening to "Arabella" at stressful times. So calming to chip away at the Christmas to-do list, for instance, while Mr. Beaumaris is hobnobbing with Ulysses, despite Ulysses's flying ear.
Hi All - To the question: "Where do you get your Heyer?" I wanted to add that I love Abebooks.com. It is my used book online website for all books. If you want a 1st edition in excellent condition, or a paperback reading edition - it's got it all. It's like a compilation of a bunch of books stores so they literally have everything. And... for just a reading copy it's not expensive and usually you get free shipping.
The site dealoz.com is the KAYAK of booksellers. It shows you what Abebooks, Amazon, B&N, independents, Better World Books, etc., are selling new and used books for. It will sort by condition or lowest prices, even combining price and shipping, so you're not fooled by a teaser price and high shipping. If there are coupons or codes offered by the seller, they are listed. I love it. For instance, at this moment there are 21 editions (different ISBNs) of "Arabella" to click on, and that click takes you to all the venders having that edition to sell.
Lori wrote: "The site dealoz.com is the KAYAK of booksellers. It shows you what Abebooks, Amazon, B&N, independents, Better World Books, etc., are selling new and used books for. It will sort by condition or lo..."Does anyone know of a good UK equivalent?
It's so nice to scroll through my phone and have all my GH e or audio books spin past. Yes, I am slowly working on getting a complete GH library on my Nook. I love seeing so many familiar and well-loved titles, all available any time I like.
Emr, I so agree. Ditto with my Audibles. I love scrolling through them, knowing each would provide me with hours of joy.
I just now got a kindle (very late to the game!) to store all my books on! Currently, my night stand is full of Heyer books, so I figured it was about time to get an E-reader.
Critterbee wrote: "I just now got a kindle (very late to the game!) to store all my books on! Currently, my night stand is full of Heyer books, so I figured it was about time to get an E-reader."Consider getting the companion Audible audiobooks, which are often a reduced price once you've purchased the Kindle. I love listening to quality readers whispering GH in my ear while I get things done around the house. And you can bookmark passages and add notes, too, just as you can in the Kindle. (I also love Jane Austen, and my "Mansfield Park" has over 600 bookmarks/notations I've made during 14 readings.)
Aren't GH audible books abridged?
Andrea (Catsos Person) is a Compulsive eBook Hoarder wrote: "Aren't GH audible books abridged?"Not all of them. The ones read by Richard Ermitage are abridged, as are a few others. But Audible has several unabridged titles, mostly pretty straight readings done ages ago which have been digitised. Many of the titles are linked to Amazon ebooks as "Whispersync ready"; if you buy the Kindle book you can then get the audiobook at a well-reduced price. The combination of the cost of both versions is usually less than the normal list price of the audiobook.
HJ is right. You can easily find which ones are unabridged and they are often read by master readers who are professional actors and actresses. Audio books let me read hours a day and still get things done.
Lori wrote: "HJ is right. You can easily find which ones are unabridged and they are often read by master readers who are professional actors and actresses. Audio books let me read hours a day and still get things done..."I would miss my audiobooks more than most things -- I consider them indispensable!
Bas Bleu (http://www.basbleu.com), my favorite bookseller by post, is having a sale on selected Heyer books, including the Kloestner biography (50% off).
HJ wrote: "Lori wrote: "HJ is right. You can easily find which ones are unabridged and they are often read by master readers who are professional actors and actresses. Audio books let me read hours a day and ...":( My library used to have many of the Heyer audiobooks but when I recently checked, they only had 4. I guess that they lost a lot in the conversion away from WMA format...
To answer the original question, I was a late comer to Heyer and only started reading her about 10 years ago - being cheap I always try and get a new author (new to me anyway) from my library first. I was hooked and read everything they had (about 5-6 books, all of them about 30 years old - had to be very careful with them), then decided I'd have to buy my own. Luckily my mom works at Barnes and Noble and I was able to get several of the Sourcebooks versions with her discount for birthdays, holidays, etc. Books and gift cards for books are my favorite gift and she appreciates the easy shopping - win-win! I also keep my eyes open at a local charity used book fair we attend every year and have managed to get an old hardcover of "Lady of Quality".
Susan wrote: "To answer the original question, I was a late comer to Heyer and only started reading her about 10 years ago - being cheap I always try and get a new author (new to me anyway) from my library first..."I love the beauty of the Sourcebooks covers. Alas, my editor daughter has found myriad typos, some misleading, in those editions. I'm hoping, because Sourcebook is located in the next town, that she can freelance as a proofreader for them.
Lori wrote: "Alas, my editor daughter has found myriad typos, some misleading, in those editions. I'm hoping, because Sourcebook is located in the next town, that she can freelance as a proofreader for them. That would be awesome, especially These Old Shades where the typos wreck some of GH's wittiest lines. But some of these typos go back many years. I have a compedium of some of Gh's books published in the 70s or 80s which has them. (the typos)
I know, they are beautiful aren't they? Good luck to your daughter, dream job!
Sorry, I forgot - I've also found many Heyer books on Scribd - not an e-reader fan, but as I get older I must admit I love those spiffy features that let me change and enlarge fonts! I have it loaded on my iPad so I can store several books on the device - nice for long trips or going to the beach or anyplace with slow/non-existent wifi.
Lori wrote: "Susan wrote: "I love the beauty of the Sourcebooks covers. Alas, my editor daughter has found myriad typos, some misleading, in those editions. I'm hoping, because Sourcebook is located in the next town, that she can freelance as a proofreader for them. ."
Also deliberate word changes! The Sourcebooks covers are all from paintings that were done after the Regency era. I prefer the original Heineman hardcovers. The library has lost some of the dust jackets and doesn't have all the first editions but most of them are in tact and available.
I have Heinemann's of Lady of Quality (thought I hadn't taken from my parents' but I had) & Simon the Coldheart. Wish I had taken My Lord John but just don't like that one. Here are some Heyer covers, though it doesn't always make clear which are the Heinemann ones. http://personal.colby.edu/personal/l/...(
QNPoohBear wrote: "Lori wrote: "Susan wrote: "I love the beauty of the Sourcebooks covers. Alas, my editor daughter has found myriad typos, some misleading, in those editions. I'm hoping, because Sourcebook is locat..."
I agree with the school of thought that once a book is published, the editing should stop, unless the author is putting out a revised edition. Just heard on public radio how this has become a problem in recent editions of Agatha Christie novels. Thank you for pointing out the deliberate changes in the Sourcebook editions.
Lori wrote: " Thank you for pointing out the deliberate changes in the Sourcebook editions."The only deliberate change in Heyer I know of was I to Why Shoot a Butler which I did as a group read in another group. I had censored "worked like slaves" most of the rest of the group didn't. I'm not a fan of censorship & I think if it's done there should be a note somewhere in the book telling you. Are there more examples like this?
☆ Ｃａｒｏｌ ☆ wrote: "Lori wrote: " Thank you for pointing out the deliberate changes in the Sourcebook editions."The only deliberate change in Heyer I know of was I to Why Shoot a Butler which I did as a group read i..."
I don't know myself, Carol. If my daughter has seen anything except mistakes I'll post in the future. Discussion Friends, do any of you know?
There are word changes here and there from the original unedited Heyer approved first editions to later editions. Not censorship but just word changes like basket where GH wrote the correct gondola in Frederica. I don't read Agatha Christie but I don't think the title 10 Little N---- would sell today. It didn't pass muster in the U.S. even back then.
QNPoohBear wrote: "There are word changes here and there from the original unedited Heyer approved first editions to later editions. Not censorship but just word changes like basket where GH wrote the correct gondola..."Oh boy! If your daughter does get the proofreading job, invite her to join us here!
I just hope when the rest of her books end up on Gutenberg that they go back to her first editions!
I'm pretty sure the first time I read that Christie title it was 10 Little N. I read an uncensored Marsh recently which really stunned me.
☆ Ｃａｒｏｌ ☆ wrote: "...I read an uncensored Marsh recently which really stunned me. ..."Which Marsh is that? Ngaio Marsh? Which book?
I was interested to see the Agatha Christie book in a general list of the worlds most popular books, and thought then that it was just as well they'd changed the title. It's important to appreciate that Christie meant no offence at all when she used the line from what was then a common elimination rhyme.
Artists in Crime I've read it before & I'm quite sure I've read censored on the previous times. But I've never heard that Marsh was particularly racist - she was fascinated by Maori culture. & also not as nasty about female servants as some of the Golden Age writers were.
☆ Ｃａｒｏｌ ☆ wrote: "Artists in Crime I've read it before & I'm quite sure I've read censored on the previous times. But I've never heard that Marsh was particularly racist - she was fascinated by Maori c..."I have a rooted objection to the censorship of books, and it concerns me that Artists in Crime has been published in a censored version.
The first thing I do when I open a book is to check the copyright date. I also consider the age the author was when she wrote it. I then know the context in which to read the book. I do not expect a book written in 1938 by a woman who was born in 1895 to reflect modern sensibilities. I find it interesting to see what type of thinking was considered normal and common in that place and at that time; much as I enjoy the mystery, etc., part of my enjoyment in reading "old" books is in seeing a society and way of life which has vanished now.
I do think that intention is important in considering offensiveness. I agree with you that from what we can tell Ngaio Marsh was not racist i.e. she did not hold views on race which were considered extreme or unusual for her time. As you say, she knew a great deal about Maori culture -- and actually accepted that they did have a culture, which not everyone did.
I find it interesting that she seemed to feel defensive about the fact that she herself was born and brought up in New Zealand, which she seemed to feel put her at a disadvantage in England!
Because I'm fascinated about how accents develop and change, I also find it interesting that (it seems) among people of British origin in New Zealand, even for those who were born there, in the early part of the twentieth century the "upper classes" maintained their original accent and did not have a New Zealand accent. They appear to have regarded those who spoke with a New Zealand accent as definitely socially inferior. This makes me wonder:
-- when did the NZ accent develop?
-- how and why?
-- are there regional variations in NZ accents?
-- are there still class divisions based on how strong or not your NZ accent is?
Sorry to bombard you! It's my "satiable curiosity"!
Ooooh, this is a lot of content! If anyone feels this is too off topic let me know & I'll shift it.
One of my bils knew Ngaio Marsh slightly (he had a bit part in a play she was directing) & he describes her as an absolutely lovely person.
She was from Christchurch which until the earthquakes was the most English of the NZ cities. Her own accent was very "plummy" - probably a hybrid of NZ & English. I've always had a bit of a love hate relationship with her books as the class consciousness just set my teeth on edge - probably because she wasn't English, but was fascinated by the English.
So I'm not sure when the accent developed but my grandparents & their siblings were born in the late 19th century & they all had NZ accents.
Some parts of the South Island there is a definite difference - a soft rolling of the rrrs, There are slight differences in words. A holiday cottage is a bach in the North Island & a crib in the South Island.
My husband is one of 8, but his NZ accent is far stronger than his brothers & sisters. he sounds a lot like the late Barry Crump. Barry Crump is the driver in this ad
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_yj1g...
Marty loved the countryside, but other than that I don't know why his accent is so strong that I can hear it!
I am Canadian born & although I don't sound like a Canadian to a Canadian, I quite definitely don't have a NZ accent!
I don't think there are class divisions in NZ based on accent, but there are quite definitely judgements made on you based on your job & appearance. & sometimes your sex. It always amuses me when we go to buy a computer or similar & the salesperson ignores me & talks to Marty! He just says, "Don't look at me, mate! I don't know anything about...."
Carol, I live in the U.S. (Born here) and I've wondered the same thing about the various accents spoken in different regions of the country and why didn't speech stay the same as the people from England who settled here.Perhaps professional linguists understand all of this...
Carol -- thank you very much for your detailed reply. Sorry to have bombarded you so!Andrea -- yes, that is exactly what interests me. Why the variety of accents across the UK, and then why did the accents change again in the US? They changed in different ways in different places, but they all have that same overlying thing which we call an American accent. And then those from the UK who who went to Australia developed another different common accent overlying the varieties there, and a yet further different one developed in New Zealand.
I've read that American accents didn't change from the English nearly as much as the English accents changed from the English (over time).
Howard wrote: "I've read that American accents didn't change from the English nearly as much as the English accents changed from the English (over time)."Yes, I've heard this too.
I have heard that as well, however not sure if it is correct.
"The Reluctant Widow" ebook is DEEPLY discounted ($1.99) until August 16 through Amazon, B&N, Apple, Google, and Kobo. Even though I enjoy the paper editions, it's so much easier to search the ebooks, and it's wonderful to have them always with me on my phone. I also snap them up because once you own an Amazon edition, when the Audible audio book goes on sale, I can get the deeply-discounted companion price.
Wow! Thank you for the heads up!
Andrea (Catsos Person) is a Compulsive eBook Hoarder wrote: "Wow! Thank you for the heads up!"You're so welcome, Andrea. I subscribe to BookBub, so I get these updates. And I guess because I've flagged Georgette Heyer as a favorite author on Amazon, BookBub sent me a private message as well as the general email that listed this book among other authors' books.
Lori wrote: ""The Reluctant Widow" ebook is DEEPLY discounted ($1.99) until August 16 through Amazon, B&N, Apple, Google, and Kobo. Even though I enjoy the paper editions, it's so much easier to search the eboo..."Thanks for letting people know Lori.
I deleted your duplicate comment in the General folder as we don't use the General folder here but comments not assigned to any folder end up here.
Unfortunately on GR moderators can't move or edit comments, only delete.
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So true QNPoohBear. My mother-in-law has stridently reminded me that New York is NOT part of New England (much to my lifelong disappointment). Even so, ignoring original English pronunciations is something we New Yorkers share with our betters in New England.