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Foreshadowing about the Amyr
The Chandrian are evil. They drove the ancestors of the Adam from their home. They started and ended the Creation War. And the Fae will not talk about them. E-v-i-l.
I'm not a fan, of the idea, that the Chandrian are good or misunderstood. There was just too much malicious verbiage from, Cinder when Kvothe described the slaughter of his family. If that scene was removed I would be more willing to accept they are simply on the losing side of a history that is slowly forgetting about them. Being misunderstood doesn’t mean innocent though. What is the saying: the road to hell is paved in good intentions. However, I don’t know if I would say it was the seven alone driving the Adem from their ancestral lands. They were described in the seven sorrows (?) story as the seven traitors and the lord of traitors. Implying there was an existing conflict before the betrayal.
Additionally, If they ended the Creation war, that would mean they were the victors. I don’t think they would be hiding if they won.
I’ve never really put much thought into the unspoken narrative about why the Fae would regard the 7 so. It was my understanding that the 7 were Champions of sorts of the Faen relm. Dejected that they didn’t secure exclusive rights of the moon? Which does seem more important to the Fae, than the “real” world. Or perhaps it is more accurate to say the Fae remember more about the moon than the real world.
Where is thistle or amber when you need them.
As to the Amyr… I think they are the same as the Chandrian. Just on the winning side, or the side that had won, or had an upper hand in the stalemate/ceasefire.
Mod
"Being misunderstood doesn’t mean innocent though. What is the saying: the road to hell is paved in good intentions. "
I'm not saying the Chandrian are innocent, but I am saying their is two sides to every story, and we're only getting one, and that we're getting that story from the POV of a character who is EXTREMELY biased against them and directly refuses to investigate any instance in which he could be proven to have an incorrect or misinformed opinion
That's leads me to be suspicious since I'm being presented with not only half of a story, I'm being presented with a biased half that may or may not be accurate.
Outside of that, The Chandrian did not start and End the Creation war. The Creation War was started between two different races/factions (hard to say) of people who I assume wanted different things - as most wars go.
I believe they were called Ergus (hell someone will know I always forget, starts with an "E") against, I believe, the Ruach. Lanre, who is now Haliax, was actually fighting in this war on the same side as Selitos at one point. He actually WON the greatest battle in that war, Drossen Tor by slaying some beast that's beyond my comprehension.
The Chandrian only destroyed the Seven Cities, they didn't start or end anything. They lost, they were all cursed. All they did was burn some cities and stop Selitos for a short time. What the motives behind this were, are completely unknown. When I couple this knowledge with the fact that Lanre spoke with Ctheah, it's hard for me to imagine his full intention was to turn into a bad guy, so much as what Servius suggested,
The road to hell was paved in good intentions.
Also - no one calls the name of the Chandrian, they're cursed names. Besides that, all we know is that Felurian doesn't want to talk about them. I can think of two members of Fae who have been perfectly willing to discuss them, Ctheah and Bast. In my opinion, it's probably the same as in 4C's. Some people are willing to discuss them, others pass on account they think its a risk.
Mod
I don't think the narrative actually covers it, most of the stuff I've read on this was speculation.
I have some opinions, but honestly, someone like Thistlepong is so much better with unspoken narrative, I agree I'd love to see her take on this.
As far as my understanding, I've never fully fleshed out why I think the Chandrian are all working together, but I think it has something to do with Ctheah, not necessarily the moon, as it seems Lanre was actually fighting against Iax in the Creation War, thus fighting against sharing the moon with Fae. (this is what I've speculatively gathered, don't take this as cannon please) It appears that at least Cinder and Lanre have spoken with it and the whole moon debacle occurred with Iax so there has always been a disconnect for me on that front.
Haliax seems to have some connection to the moon when you connect the imagery from the pot found at the Mauthen Farm though. So I do speculate that in the end their will be a connection between Haliax and Iax, I mean, the name alone really stands out to suggest that after reading how much time Pat puts into wordage. Just not sure how that will work out.
I believe that Lanre and even Haliax's whole existence is based on reconnecting with Lyra. This why Selitos cursed him the way he did. Haliax cannot be killed and now, even if he found a way to bring Lyra back to be with him, she would have no way of recognizing him because he changed his true name and Selitos stole his physical appearance.
As for the Other Chandrian, I have no clue what their goals might be. Speculatively, I think they may actually want to reunite the worlds.
Oh god...I'm just rambling...time to leave and allow other discussion. *sigh*
I thought whatever had changed, Lanre made him immortal? And Selitos had just cursed him into sleepless shadow? Im starting to have a mountain of things to check on my next read through.
Mod
Yes, this is what I have too. Whatever happened that made Lanre into Haliax made him immortal, but from what I understand it is a bit more than that, like nothing can kill him, literally he will always come back.
And Selitos had just cursed him into sleepless shadow?
Yes, you have the right of it. He still looked like Lanre even though he was really Haliax, that's how he tricked Selitos. I got this to be the reason why Selitos cursed him into shadow so he couldn't go around pretending to be Lanre. (probably also because he was pissed off *shrug*) But I also notice that this makes it impossible for Haliax to reconnect with Lyra if that opportunity ever came, which is interesting to me.
Mod
So, like, I don't think so. Not 'cause I'm certain there's some big conspiracy or there's gone be a revealing twist. But because the author doesn't believe in evil. The most he'll commit to is that people are rude.
In fact, in a couple interviews, he's implied that the traditional dichotomy isn't present in the KKC. One of the is here:
5) What are some examples of things you’ve put into (or left out of) The Kingkiller Chronicles to set it apart from the rest of the high fantasy genre?
Before I started writing, I made a list of all the things that I was really tired of seeing in fantasy novels. I wish I still had that list.
Let me see if I can remember what was on it…
Long bouts of tedious description/narration.
An evil wizard who is trying to enslave everyone or destroy the world.
Gods who are obviously just versions of Greek/Egyptian gods with their names changed.
The hero who is chosen by destiny to fulfill the prophecy because he is the one with the destiny foretold by prophecy.
The revenge-driven hero.
The reluctant hero.
Any character endlessly agonizing over some event in their past.
A villain who is supposed to be threatening, but who just flails ineffectually at the hero.
A villain who just taunts the hero endlessly but never does anything.
Elf with a bow. Dwarf with an axe.
Goblin Army.
“Good” and “Evil”
The list goes on and on….
emphasis mine
That doesn't mean the Seven are kind or anything, but it does suggest that we don't know their side of the story. It also helps us understand why
"Being misunderstood doesn’t mean innocent though. What is the saying: the road to hell is paved in good intentions."
Bad intentions surely form sturdier paving stones on the path to perdition. This is kind of one of the least understood cliches in English, maybe in any language. Check out everyone's best friend Wikipedia.
The meaning of the phrase is that individuals may have the intention to undertake good actions but nevertheless fail to take action.
It's not good intentions that ipso facto damn you, it's what you do or fail to do. This is even kind of explored, with admittedly dire consequences, by Bast and Chronicler at the end of WMF.
Mod
So, in the simplest, least satisfying manner possible. Everyone was Ruach. There was a difference of opinion about the use of naming to alter the environment. The Shapers tried to steal the Knowers' ball. And that, as it often does, started a fight. This one lasted for centuries.
There are a couple truths that kind of sum up the complexities involved in understanding what happened.
The Faen call the razing of Myr Tariniel "The Betrayal," capitalized.
Researching all over the world, Denna aggregates a story that ends in Lanre's "clever trickery."
Skarpi's version corroborates the Faen opinion.
We know nothing, just like John Snow.
Mod
- Any character endlessly agonizing over some event in their past.
- The revenge-driven hero.
Mod
However, among the strongest objections about the story is that Kvothe isn't doing enough, or even anything, to advance the (supposed) revenge plot.
I'd suggest that it's even lampshaded as a false lead when he says something like, "did I swear revenge at the time? I suppose I did." He's not committed to vengeance. He's definitely not committed in the same way, say, Jorg or The Grey Mouser or Arya is.
As far as endlessly agonizing over a past event goes, I don't think that's expressed. He revisits it after three years in Tarbean an then cleans up and goes to school. it comes up while he's on drugs and when the most hated creature in Faen taunts him. He's haunted, but it doesn't define him.
I take the list as a reminder to look closer and think about the what's actually in the text rather than letting my expectations rule my assumptions.
I find myself shocked to disagree with you, Thistle. I understand where you are coming from, but I think his past does haunt/drive him. He spent three years pushing these things deep. But, they still set the narrative/theme of his life. The root cause of his actions (even when not expressly spelled out) leads back to those events in his life. They were just too big to shrug off. “I'd suggest that it's even lampshaded as a false lead when he says something like, "did I swear revenge at the time? I suppose I did." He's not committed to vengeance. He's definitely not committed in the same way, say, Jorg or The Grey Mouser or Arya is.”
This is the telling of the story. The story has already been lived. We are at the end of it. Sure the trigger hasn’t been pulled…yet. But hindsight is 20/20. He may not be seeking vengeance any longer, as Kote. Kvothe, however was. IMO
Mod
However, in this case, I think the burden of proof is on you, or Chris, or whomever, to convince me. As we've seen, Pat doesn't consider those items in the list to be part of the story he's crafted. Either he's wrong and he's just regurgitated the same old thing he wanted to resist or he's not and he's, um, playing with our expectations.
But you're not just disagreeing with me, and with the author, you're also disagreeing with the narrator. This is a long passage, but lately I've become fond of quoting for context.
“Think of all the stories you’ve heard, Bast. You have a young boy, the hero. His parents are killed. He sets out for vengeance. What happens next?”
Bast hesitated, his expression puzzled. Chronicler answered the question instead. “He finds help. A clever talking squirrel. An old drunken swordsman. A mad hermit in the woods. That sort of thing.”
Kvothe nodded. “Exactly! He finds the mad hermit in the woods, proves himself worthy, and learns the names of all things, just like Taborlin the Great. Then with these powerful magics at his beck and call, what does he do?”
Chronicler shrugged. “He finds the villains and kills them.”
“Of course,” Kvothe said grandly. “Clean, quick, and easy as lying. We know how it ends practically before it starts. That’s why stories appeal to us. They give us the clarity and simplicity our real lives lack.”
Kvothe leaned forward. “If this were some tavern tale, all half-truth and senseless adventure, I would tell you how my time at the University was spent with a purity of dedication. I would learn the ever-changing name of the wind, ride out, and gain my revenge against the Chandrian.” Kvothe snapped his fingers sharply. “Simple as that.
“But while that might make for an entertaining story, it would not be the truth. The truth is this. I had mourned my parent’s death for three years, and the pain of it had faded to a dull ache.”
Kvothe made a conciliatory gesture with one hand, and smiled a tight smile. “I won’t lie to you. There were times late at night when I lay sleepless and desperately alone in my narrow bunk in the Mews, times when I was choked with a sorrow so endless and empty that I thought it would smother me.
“There were times when I would see a mother holding her child, or a father laughing with his son, and anger would flare up in me, hot and furious with the memory of blood and the smell of burning hair.”
Kvothe shrugged. “But there was more to my life than revenge. I had very real obstacles to overcome close at hand. My poverty. My low birth. The enemies I made at the University were more dangerous to me than any of the Chandrian.”
This is one of many instances where Kote notes within the story that revenge is neither his only nor his primary motivation. I chose it 'cause it also addresses the "endlessly agonizing" charge. I understand why you, or anyone, really, would hold onto that as the primary driver of the plot.
But, and critics are quick to point this out, if that's the case, Kvothe is terrible at it and the books are kind of meandering and silly.
Mod
That's not to say he isn't haunted by his past when he is forced to face it full on - certainly he is.
But he hardly agonizes over it until he's forced too in almost every situation. Whenever we get a cognitive recollection from Kvothe it seems to me that they are all caused by outside factors he can't fully control. For the most part, in my opinion, Kvothe is quite happy with internalizing his past and generally not thinking about it at all. I see his character as Young Kvothe very future driven.
As for Kote, I see his character as very stuck in the middle. He doesn't want to recollect the past, but he doesn't see a place for him in the future. In my opinion, this is what leads Bast to seek constant reminders of Young Kvothe, to remind Kote of a time when he sought a better future constantly.
As for revenge driven, I do feel like Kvothe is in certain instances driven by vengeance. For instance, when he completely leaves the University, no notice, to go to the Mauthen Farm. He wasn't going to get much going their, but he chose to anyway, because their was some chance he might run into or find information on the Chandrian. However, I can't attribute everything to revenge, like in the case of a character like Arya Stark. I don't think Kvothe goes to the University to learn more simply for revenge, I think he had a general interest in being their and that learning more about the Chandrian/Amyr would be a perk. I think the same about his travels to Vintas, none of that, in my opinion, is completely revenge driven, its an after thought. But vengeance is certainly a force that Kvothe struggles with, as we see with Ambrose, and in my opinion, as exploited by Ctheah.
Despite, the scenarios and interview excerpts: I still maintain that ultimately these events are his motivation. As the child, Kvothe growing up. Not as, Kote the inn keep.I think The realism of, Kvothe is one of the reasons I truly love, Rothfuss’s work. His characters are developed and real. Kvothe, displays several characteristics/tendencies one would expect to see in an individual that experienced such trauma. Including a numb/loose “moral code”, and emotionally distant. That doesn’t mean he doesn’t have these motivations or feelings. It means he doesn’t acknowledge them unless he is forced to. They are “latent principles” if you must. Again, just because it isn’t spelled out and you are not beaten over the head with it doesn’t mean it isn’t there. You assert the story is sloppy with these motivations. I say there is no character without these motivations. When he shifted his focus to the Amyr, it was in hopes that he could leverage them against the Chandrian. Was he pining ever paragraph about it? No. He is emotionally stunted. Everyone he knew died violently. He spent 3 years fighting for his life in a hostile place. You don’t show emotion is such places. You’re dead if you do. That doesn’t mean they are not there.
Mod
With some consideration after reading all this, I think maybe Kvothe's major motivation is pure curiosity.
On Lorren being one of the Amyr, he has also mysteriously stepped in twice to stop Kvothe's Amyr/Chandrian studies while Kvothe was in the Stacks. Coincidental? Maybe... however I think Lorren is, at the very least, affiliated with the Amyr.
You would have to assume they amyr have had their influences on all the master archivists. How else could they ensure the thorough cleaning of all the texts in the 4C's. Half of the books in the world are probably there. And yeah still have to side with amber and Thistle. Rothfuss is weaving a comfy familiar fantasy blanket that he plans to rip out from under you in the final book. Can't say how he will do it, but I would bet it will do with him being wrong about the chandrian.
Mod
I've personally never seen Lorren's objections to Kvothe's studies as coincidental. Maybe it's not the best choice, but I've always kinda taken his explanation about it at face value. Lorren doesn't always give his reasons, but from what I've read, if you ask the right questions he always seems to truthfully answer. Though I admit their is some risk in doing so.
Going back to the original topic of this thread--doesn't the Cthaeh basically confirm that the Chandrian killed Kvothe's family? The Cthaeh only speaks the truth, and it says that Cinder tortured Kvothe's parents. I suppose you could somehow twist this around to say that the Chandrian are working for some kind of greater good, but they seem pretty straight-up evil to me.
Mod
But some people argue that it could be interpreted as Cinder tried to help her or just moved her body etc. I don't really buy it but there's the second side of the coin!
Mod
I thought this thread was about the amyr. ;)
Mod
Only that Kvothe's father begged for his life and that Cinder did terrible things to Kvothe's mother.
The argument is generally that Cinder could have done things that were terrible to Kvothe's mother at any time in her life, or even made a decision that led to the path that caused Kvothe's parent's to die.
Another argument is that they could have been killed fairly justly or at least in self defense. One thing I notice through out the story is that the only person who seems to think Edema Ruh aren't theives and kidnappers is Kvothe. And there has literally been no corroborating evidence for his opinion. Generally there has been the opposite.
Have to disagree with that last bit, Amberpants. Tinkers respect the Ruh. At least, that tinker outside Trebon suddenly decided to trust Kvothe after he introduced himself as one of the Ruh. Before that, he thought Kvothe was lying when he said he'd travelled all the way from Imre that day. And plenty of people felt safe tagging along with their caravan when Kvothe was growing up. Abenthy didn't give it a second thought. And that arcanist outside Lorren's office- the one who went around acquiring books for the Archives- he seemed friendly toward the Ruh as well. It seems to me that travelers tend to trust the Ruh whereas those living in towns or cities are more wary of them.
Mod
I suppose there is probably a little of both as in most everything.
Not everyone has a bad opinion of them, but they must have some cultural reasons for the bad reputation to begin with. (He does talk about that a little doesn't he? I can't fully remember what happened to cause all that Ravel business)
But fair enough not everyone has shown a complete disdain for them.
Yeah, I can't remember the history behind it either. Some Emperor issued a proclamation basically saying they were fair game but I don't remember why...
Not everyone has a bad opinion of them, but they must have some cultural reasons for the bad reputation to begin with.Racism seems like a good enough reason to me.
Mod
Generally, people have reasons for hunting down and killing people, even if those reasons are incorrect, invalid, or misappropriated.
Think about how this would apply to real-world cultures. Sometimes the reason is "we needed slaves so we enslaved these people and then later made up some reason why they don't deserve equal rights in order to justify it," or even just "we don't like these people because they do things differently so they must be wrong." It's a big complicated issue, and I hesitate to boil it down to "well, the Edema Ruh must have done something wrong in order to be stereotyped and persecuted."In-universe, think of the difference between the Adem and the Commonwealth culture. The Adem see outsiders as "barbarians," not because they do things wrongly, but because they do things differently. The Edema Ruh have their own culture and customs, which might seem wrong or barbaric to the other cultures they have encountered throughout the years.
Mod
The discussion reminded me of something Ben said.
“Now I’m not saying that the Chandrian are out there, striking like lightning from the clear blue sky. But folk everywhere are afraid of them. There’s usually a reason for that.”
And the only Ruh we've seen for half a million words is a liar and a thief and a murderer and...
Murderer? I prefer vigilante! Though that episode with Pike was pretty murdery, I admit. Or attempted murdery...
[spoilers, blah]he MURDERS the mercenaries at the camp in the eld, he MURDERS the fake band of troupers, although that was more justified. basically Ks ability to commit actions that result in the taking of lives is pretty high... I don't like considering him a murderer, but a spade is nothing but a spade
Mod
he MURDERS the mercenaries at the camp in the eld, he MURDERS the fake band of troupers, although that was more justified. basically Ks ability to commit actions that result in the..."
He is a solider of justice! :P But yeah, did the mercenaries deserve to die? We can assume they might have killed a few people but it's a pretty big leap to murder them all. I agree, he's a murderer.
I liken the Eduma Ruh to 'travellers' or 'Roma Gypsies'. They have traditional customs but have fallen out of sync with the developing world and are ostracized because of it. There's not so much of a straight comparison as the Ruh in NOTW were hired and had a purpose. It's never mentioned that they aren't the exception to the rule.
Mod
My point is that Kvothe's an extraordinarily negative representation of the Ruh, especially as the their primary representation, if they're mostly law-abiding kind gentle trustworthy folks.
Mod
I never meant to imply the Edema Ruh did something "wrong" so much as they must have done something culturally that caused them to become a target.
I don't think that something necessarily has to quantify to being wrong, just different, as Sophie described, but none the less it is a "something" (whether wrong or not isn't really the question) and I'd be interested in what that was.
While not all stereotypes are accurate, significant social research has shown them more often than not to be a generally accurate way to categorize social groups for the brain to calculate proper cognitive responses. So clearly, the likely conclusion is, something attributed them the stereotype.
Amber wrote: "Eh, Evil is subjective. The Amyr have done many "evil" things as well. So have the Sithe really, they're straight up murderers. I agree with what Servius says:"Being misunderstood doesn’t mean..."
As for motives, it says:
""You were counted among the best of us. We considered you beyond reproach."
"Yet I did this."
Selitos could not bring himself to look upon his ruined city. "Yet you did this," he agreed. "Why?"
Lanre paused. "My wife is dead. Deceit and treachery brought me to it, but her death is on my hands."
...
Lanre's allies had brought about the ruin of the last bastions of the empire.
Lanre turned. "And I counted among the best." Lanre's face was terrible to look upon. Grief and despair had ravaged it. "I, considered wise and good, did all this!" He gestured wildly. "Imagine what unholy things a lesser man must hold within his secret heart." Lanre faced Myr Tariniel and a sort of peace came over him. "For them, at least, it is over. They are safe. Safe from the thousand evils of the everyday. Safe from the pains of an unjust fate."
Selitos spoke softly, "Safe from the joy and wonder..."
"There is no joy!" Lanre shouted in an awful voice. ..."Any joy that grows here is quickly choked by weeds. I am not some monster who destroys out of a twisted pleasure. I sow salt because the choice is between weeds and nothing."
....
"This world is like a friend with a mortal wound. A bitter draught given quickly only eases pain."
..."...I have only the hope of oblivion after everything is gone and the Aleu fall nameless from the sky.""
NOTW p.179-180 I believe 1st ed hardback edition.
From this, it seems rather clear that Lanre was so devastated by his loss that he sought to destroy all around him so they either felt his pain (if I can't have it, no one can) or because he thought it was an act of pity to save the world from having to ever feel loss again if he destroyed it all. Just from what I've read, IMO I would give Skarpi the benefit of the doubt here and assume he is telling a story very close to the truth. Because not only does it not paint the picture as clearly black and white, but there is a hint of sympathy towards Lanre and he had much to lose in telling the story. We can assume someone heard that he told this story, reported him, and thus the Tehlins showed up at the next story. One could argue everyone on this side is not the "good" side, but then bad guys very rarely see themselves as bad, right?
But that's just my opinion. :)
thistlepong wrote: "Jack wrote: "The Chandrian are evil. They drove the ancestors of the Adam from their home. They started and ended the Creation War. And the Fae will not talk about them. E-v-i-l."So, like, I don'..."
I would hesitate to take the interview as canon for what will happen. We've already seen him violate some of these (just IMHO):
The revenge-driven hero.
Any character endlessly agonizing over some event in their past.
etc.
One could argue these very things are important to the series. So while he probably is aiming to avoid them as main motifs, I would not say any of these things can not be in the book. He has shown us good vs. evil already, though it's looking to be less black and white (thankfully).
Plus, Rothfuss never states specifically that these things are not in his book, but that: "Before I started writing, I made a list of all the things that I was really tired of seeing in fantasy novels. I wish I still had that list." They were things he was tired of seeing, but that doesn't mean he did not include any of them (from the obvious above evidence).
Both the Chandrian and Amyr have something in common. They are hiding there stories. Makes me wonder if the jar at the Mauthen Farm had had Amyr on it what the Amyr would have done to get rid of the evidence. The Sithe and others are also enemies of the Chandrian, but Kvothe doesn't inquire about them. Just the Amyr and Chandrian. I wonder why...
I think by revenge driven he means the book isn't solely about him chasing or thinking about revenge. K is motivated to hunt down the Chandrian and he seeks every oppurtunity to track them down or learn about them. He does not go to the Academy or Adem to learn how to get revenge. He goes simply to learn or because the oppurtunity arises. Honestly other than knowing the Chandrian fear the Amyr we don't know why he is so focused on learning about the Amyr. To help them, join them, or just learn why the Chandrian fear them.
Zach wrote: "Both the Chandrian and Amyr have something in common. They are hiding there stories. Makes me wonder if the jar at the Mauthen Farm had had Amyr on it what the Amyr would have done to get rid of th..."The blue flames which are a sign of the Chandrian, plus the metals (and wood? I can't recall) falling apart, etc. all signs of the Chandrian like when they showed up/killed his parents and troupe.
Zach wrote: "I think by revenge driven he means the book isn't solely about him chasing or thinking about revenge. K is motivated to hunt down the Chandrian and he seeks every oppurtunity to track them down or ..."And the story is not purely good vs. bad, either. It doesn't mean these things can't be *part* of the story, though. Does that make sense? He states he was sick of those things being in fantasy novels, but uses some of them to some degree as well. He does NOT say that he did not put those in his books, though, if you read his quote.
Yes I understand the signs on the jar, sorry for the confusion. What I meant was K can't find anything about either of them. We already know what the Chandrian do to hide evidence of their existence, but what do the Amyr do? Both hide or destroy evidence of their existence, but we don't know how the Amyr do it. I was just wondering what would have happened at the Mauthen farm if the jar described the Amyr instead of the Chandrian. Would the Amyr have killed everyone that saw it like Chandrian? What if the Duke of Gibea was destroying evidence and doing horrific experiments at the same time. Meaning that he killed everyone that knew about the real Amyr. That is far fetched, but for the greater good?
Mod
I think his story is just one sides portrayal of what happened in a war. As most wars go each side see's itself the more benevolent usually. So, in my opinion, the story is just indicative of Skarpi being a supporter of the amyr side of things.
Denna's song portrays things differently, but because Kvothe has an express bias against the idea of Lanre being a victim we don't get as much detail.
As for Fae, I don't recall them discussing the Chandrian, I believe Felurian made that off limits. I only recall them discussing who I assume to be J/Iax and the original Amyr.
@Zach - the pottery does have an Amyr on it. It has one of the Ciradae, a high ranking Amyr.
Also this is a good point I never really considered.
Yes I understand the signs on the jar, sorry for the confusion. What I meant was K can't find anything about either of them. We already know what the Chandrian do to hide evidence of their existence, but what do the Amyr do?
So why would the girl that saw the jar say the Amyr was the worst of them all?If Lanre and Selodin, if that's the correct spelling I listen to audiobooks a lot, were great men and Selodin is Amyr then perhaps Lanre is or was as well. Thus Lanre, who might have become a Chandrian would rebuke them then became one after being cursed. If that makes any sense. Only one side is described and not in a certain order. So he might not have been rebuking them.
If you take the S off Selodin what do you get?(if that is the correct spelling)
Mod
Lanre was never an Amyr, this is for certain. The Amyr were formed after the fall of Myr Tarinial. Their number one mission is to seek revenge for what happened there due to The Chandrian.
Selitos specifically refused Aleph's offer to become an angel so that he could avenge the acts of the Chandrian.
Selitos is also the one who cursed the Chandrian to the best of my understanding.
Ciridae are scary as all hell, from what I understand the acts of a Ciridae are never questioned. Possibly the tattooed hands were also creepy.
Perhaps for a country girl not knowing who they are seeing a Ciridae is more scary than a man in shadows. Not sure where I got Selodin.
I though Selitos only cursed Lanre.
Mod
He curses them all.
"This is my doom upon you and all who follow you, may it last until the world ends...."
Ok thanks for clarifying that. I try not to get into theories, so I'm not disappointed or ahead of the story, but everyone has such good ideas and imaginations I couldn't help but read them. Plus it will help pass the time until the next book....
We've had some posts on theories for what they're trying to hide and why, but its expected to be revealed in Doors of Stone as it's the final novel in the KKC series.
My opinion is that the Tehlin Church wants to cover up the Amyr/Chandrian/Creation War altogether and pretend Fae doesn't exist so they can indoctrinate everyone for....reasons.
I also really like the idea that The Chandrian are being misrepresented and aren't actually all that bad.
But as mentioned, these are just theories and ideas.