UK Amazon Kindle Forum discussion
General Chat - anything Goes
>
Question about Free Books.
I don't do free, Alexandra. (a) It seems unfair on the people who have paid for the book, and (b) I do my utmost to produce a good story, have it professionally proofread, so I don't think it unreasonable to then sell the book. That said, I'm grateful to those authors who have offered their work for free, and I have enjoyed reading some of them!
I wonder how many of us now see a book in our new release threads that we think looks really interesting but we don't by it cuz we think 'I'll save the 77p and wait for it to be free'My personal choice and I'm not for a minute suggesting anyone else should, but frequently I make a point of grabbing a book by our authors when they AREN'T on offer. I reckon, as a reader, there are really only two things I can do to make sure that writers I enjoy keep writing. Tell them and others that I enjoy their writing and follow that up with throwing a few pence into the pot to keep them writing!
As I said, purely a personal opinion.
It's an utterly daft thing to say, that completely misses the point.Does Wikipedia devalue the non-fiction industry?
Do tribute bands/'hobby' bands who play for petrol money devalue the music industry?
Does YouTube devalue the TV/film industry?
When the Italians paid Michelangelo to paint the Sistine Chapel, and then let people view for it free, did they devalue the art industry?
Someone used to post a list of freebies here, and I would often download a batch "on the off chance". But in reality, they never got read. Then the lists stopped appearing, and I stopped downloading, and my kindle is much lighter for it.The only thing that the freebies did was put more "stuff" on my kindle.
As to whether freebies hurt authors & devalue the industry, I'd say that's not true.Crap books devalue the industry, and they occur at all price points. What I think hurts indie authors more is pricing their books at 69p or some other stupidly low price, cos that says to me "I don't think my book is good enough for you to pay a decent price for it."
I've gone the free route, the cheap route, and the expensive route. None of them make much difference to my sales. As for pricing my books cheap, I price my novellas at 99c (77p) and full length novels at $2.99 (£1.92), which I feel is a fair price to pay, and which is what I expect to pay for anything that I buy. To pay more, it has to look exceptional and be something I really want.Ebooks have no resale value, so I wouldn't price them much higher as once I've read them, I delete them.
Talking to one publisher, they now work on the principle that the price doesn't actually make any difference to the writers income. Obviously I don't know whether it is true, but they felt that the extra sales just brought in about the same amount of money
Shall I move this to the author zone?
Could do, although it was posted as a question to readers as well. Do readers download free books because they are free and expect crap, do readers think it devalues a writers work etc. I wasn't sure where to post it;)Personally I download free books and I read them, although not always very quickly. I quite often buy a follow up as well if I like the book.
I have done one free promo and personally I don't think it made much difference, that said apparently it is much better if the author has more than one book as hopefully the reader buys the followup.
I don't think it devalues work, and as someone said you get rubbish books at any price! I tend to re-read things so I wouldn't delete them but if you aren't the sort to read things again the fair enough. At the moment they can't be passed on.
It is, surely, up to the author if he or she wishes to give away their work, for one reason or another. I get a lot of books, free and paid for and usually I can't remember which are which.
One of the books I have really liked, which I got for free is Viridis and then went about bought the second one as I enjoyed it so much. I hadn't really read much Steampunk before this.
I was just curious as a lot of writers on the KDP forums seem to think the lack of (their)sales and the whole issues they perceive with "the industry" are a direct result of all the free books;).
I am intending to stop doing Select, simply because I would like to try Smashwords and Lulu.
What works for some doesn't work for all and as a reader I have found some great authors. Would I have bought their books anyway? Depends, I might not have necessarily got the book when I did or if I had a lot of books to go through may have passed over. To my loss.
I doing my last free runs at the end of this month - both my KDP Select books at once. Then I'm taking them out. Until Amazon brought in Select, I wasn't selling at all. For a while, having free books really boosted my income. Now it has little effect at all... but I thought I'd have one last fling at it before I pull them and make them available through other distributors.I don't think saying that free books have made it hard for others is fair. Those with money have advertised on popular sites and shot to the top that way. What's more, they've stayed there through constant paid advertising. That doesn't help anyone else either, does it? This is just advertising - but free for both sides.
I now only download books I know I'll read in the next few weeks. With that in mind, it doesn't matter to me whether they are free or expensive. If I'm going to read it I'll download it. I see no point in a kindle full of stuff I really know I'll never read.Having said that, authors want the fee downloads to help their book shoot up the charts because some people still choose their books this way.
When I first got my kindle, which was when the KK first came out, I used to get most of the free books. I suppose it was just the novelty of it.I only download the occassional free one now but I mostly buy books from our authors on this forum and my favourite authors from before.
Thanks for the input, very interesting. My Select expires week after next and I am umming and ahhing about whether to toss in a couple of freebie days for the hell of it. My sales are not great anyway so I won't be losing many of what would have been paid sales.Still thinking on it:)
Ignite wrote: "Having said that, authors want the fee downloads to help their book shoot up the charts because some people still choose their books this way. ."That's an aspect I hadn't considered.
As a relatively new Kindle owner, I've been downloading some Free books that look interesting but which I probably wouldn't normally buy (having a fairly conservative taste). The result has been that I've really enjoyed reading a range of books that I would never normally have read in a month of Sundays! Whether I will continue doing this, I don't know.As an author, the only book I have ever made 'Free' has been one that I struggle to sell. I have vague hopes that someone one who has downloaded it for Free (and quite a number have) might leave a positive review that then results in some sales...but there's been no evidence of that, as yet.
I use select. 5 free promotion days every 3 months isn't too much. The results vary wildly, sometimes hardly any are downloaded but last time but last time it was great and reached number 1 in both Horror and fantasy. It also gave a huge boost to sales after the promotion finished although they've died off again now.For me, I find it's a great tool because without it I'd struggle to get my work noticed.
I also find it like pulling the lever on a one armed bandit, you never know whether it's going to pay off but it gives a little excitement for a couple of days; sometimes it pays, sometimes it doesn't.
And to be truthful, I'm trying to play the 'long game' and at this stage I'm happy if people are downloading and reading my work.
Hi Alexandra. Very interesting post. As a reader, I download free books but only the ones I would like to read. Some of them were really good, others not so good. If I like a book I'll pay for it as well.As an author, my select also expires at the end of this month and I'm not renewing it. I'm trying Smashwords. I wouldn't know what advice to give you because I'm in the same situation as you, I'm just testing the waters. I also have 'free days' left to use before it expires but don't really know if I'm going to use them.
Ignite wrote: "I now only download books I know I'll read in the next few weeks. With that in mind, it doesn't matter to me whether they are free or expensive. If I'm going to read it I'll download it."This. I do tend to check the Kindle deal-of-the-day and an author I've heard of for cheap/free is tempting but just being free doesn't make me want to try something.
What really devalues books is the number of poorly written ones, and the fact that it's hard to filter them out.
Mark, yes I think that is a fair assumption. I didn't see any marked improvement after my freebie in July last year but I did get a ton of downloads. Some people seem to get benefit sometimes not.Hopefully if book 2 appears soon that will help. I am thinking what the hell go for it:)
Out of interest I just downloaded a fantasy book free. I probably wont get to it for a while but I probably wouldn't have if I had paid for it. I too have found books I might not have considered before and found them enjoyable. It is a good way of branching out one's reading tastes.
Philip wrote: "As a relatively new Kindle owner, I've been downloading some Free books that look interesting but which I probably wouldn't normally buy (having a fairly conservative taste). The result has been t..."Which one is that, Phil?
Thought I've reviewed all your stuff...
Also,and this is only a theory, I think I've found promotions do better at the end of the month when there's not as much money around. It also makes them visible when people get their pay packets.
Patti (A Fine Pear) wrote: "Philip wrote: "As a relatively new Kindle owner, I've been downloading some Free books that look interesting but which I probably wouldn't normally buy (having a fairly conservative taste). The re..."You might have guessed ;-) Jambalaya
I'm choosy about which free books I get, however I have discovered many new authors this way and gone on to buy their next books.If a new book caught my eye, I'd usually look at the look inside and choose to get it or not. If it was a freebie, I'd possibly not look inside, just get it and decide later. However once it's on my kindle, there's a better chance of me reading it.
What I respond to more is a price drop.
For example - I read and enjoy Andrew Barrett's books. I'm sure the first one was free, but am not sure. When I feel like reading the next one, I'd buy it. I think his price point was about £1.50-£2. Recently he announced they would be at 99p for a short period of time, so I grabbed three of them them there and then.
Another case was someone else announcing a new book and letting us know it would be, say, 99p for the first week to thank fans, then go to the normal selling price. Of course I snapped that one up quickly.
I know you were directing that question to Joo, Adam, but I always feel that I would be prepared to pay what I'd be changed for a glossy magazine (which is largely adverts and is read in an evening) which is around £3.50 at the moment. I really don't think the good authors are charging what their work is worth. There's no filtering system though, except ourselves and our recommendations.
Joo The Grand Inquisitor wrote: "I'm choosy about which free books I get, however I have discovered many new authors this way and gone on to buy their next books.If a new book caught my eye, I'd usually look at the look inside an..."
That's a good idea. I think I'll do this with my next book (which although finished looks like being put back to June / July. So watch this space.
This is an interesting discussion, not least because I'm fast approaching decision point, where I need to choose between KDP & being Amazon exclusive, DIY everywhere, or using an aggregator like ebook partnership...Inherently I don t like the idea of limiting the distribution channels, but if the benefits of KDP demonstrably outweigh kobo+nook + etc then...
I put one of my books into KDP Select for the first time recently.I did a one-day thingy of having it free, and it made no difference sales wise.
Well I decided to do 2 days next week. (20th and 21st) My sales are a bit poo this month so really I am not going to lose that much. If someone who might not have bought it downloads and reads it and likes it then great, they might buy book 2 or tell their friends or leave a nice review. Then again it might sit for ever on a kindle and never be looked at:)I am, I think going to look into Smashwords. For Book 2 I may well do Select for the initial 3 months then decide. Apparently once the book is elsewhere than Amazon it is a bit of pain to get them removed if you want to go back in select.
I just downloaded The Weight of Blood, Knights: The Eye of Divinity,The Book of Deacon,The Witch Sea, The Circle of Sorcerers and The Circle of Sorcerers.
:)
If a book is free I'll just treat it like a longer length sample ie I'll read enough of it to know whether I'll enjoy it or not. If not, it gets deleted. I don't go seeking out free books, and will more than happily pay for one I know I'll want to read (either from knowing the author's work, or from reading the 10% sample) - it seems only fair!
Having my book downloadable for free, when I was on KDP Select, boosted my review count in the early days, which I really needed.
Adam wrote: "That's a good strategy if my own buying habits are anything to go by. Do you have just a lower range that you buy withing Joo? What would you pay for a book, say by a new author but with a sample t..."I've never really been a book buyer. I do believe I've spent more on kindle books than I ever did pre-kindle.
I'd always get my books from the library or family always bought books, so I'd get books off them.
I've looked at my book buying list and I've spent more than £2 twice, one was £3.01 !!!!!
Sometimes when I'm in tesco, I'll see something that's half price and I'll get it and say I'll put the saving towards an ebook.
I've used freebies to find new authors. I got The Lewis Man free over Christmas and have bought 2 more of his since - one kindle, one paperback.
I rarely Bought books pre kindle so do normally buy free or under £1 books. I have cut down a lot on freebies, and now they are either recommendations, an author I know I like or off Indie Book Bargains. There have been some authors I have really enjoyed and will pay for in the future.
This thread sits at the centre of my ebook headache.....It absolutely astonishes me that people think 79p is a lot of money for a book.
On the other hand as ebook buyers we haven't got a clue what is a good book and what is bad. Amazon HAS created a vanity publishing market and it is almost impossible to seperate the good indie books from the bad. I hope (and choose to think) that groups like this help to sift the wheat form the chaff but in honesty I think we need a good, independent review system. At least the traditional publishers get rid of the complete rubbish (most of the time).
Oh lol sorry Simon.I agree there are a ton of crap e-books and it is true that many people add substandard books but that said there are a lot of really good books and I have read some utter dross which has got past a publisher.
An independent review system is probably a good idea and would sift out some of the dross and perhaps give indie books a better rep. One of the indie authors on KDP the other day actually said he never buys indie books because they are all rubbish. I assume he wasn't including his own in that.
Personally I download free books and have had a lot of damn good reads from them, I also buy the lower priced ones, I quite like shorter books and often the less than novel sized books turn up at about 79p or so. I also buy pretty much anything up to about 4.99, after that it would probably have to be a book I really wanted to read.
Hopefully somewhere like goodreads and some of the other readers forums will provider useful info on what to avoid:) Free doesn't mean rubbish, any more than paying 10.99 for a book means I am going to like it.
Like many of the other authors here I believe that free books may never actually be read. It's a little different for short stories because, well, they're short and quick, so you don't have to 'waste' a lot of time on them.From personal experiance I know that my .99c books sell and my $2.99 books tanked... until I put the price down.
All of my books are now priced under a pound, people have to have a reason to look at an author they've never read before and a cheap book does that. Readers never know what to expect from you, they might hate the book and you might have only proofed the first 5 chapters that were in the sample. ;-P
However I do intend to price the 2nd books in my series a little higher, just so I can get into the 70% royalty bracket.
Hopefully those who liked the first book will be willing to buy the second even though it's a little dearer. I guess I can only try and see.
D.D. wrote: "I do intend to price the 2nd books in my series a little higher, just so I can get into the 70% royalty bracket..."Yeah, Amazon was clever with that move. If you charge 77p for your book, you only get 30% royalties. ...
Indeed. I just increased the price slightly and it hasn't helped. Hoping my freebie generates some reviews and if not at least gets someone reading Book 1 which might buy book 2 when it appears. I think for the short stories I am planning will go for the 77p bracket.Different things seem to work for different people, I have heard people saying putting the price UP helped. Just goes to show there is not one guaranteed answer.
I originally priced my first novels at 99p, then I think 1.49 ... now I've moved countries and think in dollars, but I've gone for $2.99 for the novels, which is the magic 70% royalty barrier for KDP. My sales are more or less the same. So I'm now getting a much bigger slice of a much bigger price, but it's kind of like buying a more expensive brand of windscreen detergent for your car. I'm sure it makes a difference, technically, but do you really notice it?I've temporarily got a novella on for free, simply because it was doing nothing at any other price. That meant taking it out of Select. Having it on for free permanently seems to result in fewer downloads than a 5-day free promo.
I'm thinking of upping my price to $1000 on all books. All it takes is one reader with poor eyesight and a low resistance to impulse buying, then maybe I can afford some decent cover art.
Quality is certainly a problem.A group of us, all fantasy (in the broadest sense) writers have formed a loose association called the 'The Gumbee Fantasy Writers Guild'
The idea is that to be a Guild member you've got to have reputable reviews and have reached a certain standard.
A lot of us are reviewed by no less a person than Ignite, to give you an idea of the caliber we're aiming at
Calibre. (Because we're in the UK) See, I'm a hard woman!
P.A. (U.L.) wrote: "I'm thinking of upping my price to $1000 on all books. All it takes is one reader with poor eyesight and a low resistance to impulse buying, then maybe I can afford some decent cover art."*Ponders Amazon affiliate linking strategy*
Hehe.I saw a "copy" of my old paperback on for £615 or something like that a while ago. It disappeared shortly after but that made me laugh. yes price it at £1000 and see if anyone has autoclick to buy, see if they return it in time:)
Funnily enough I was getting no borrows, the since I decided to opt out of select at the end of the month I have some. Go figure:)
Going with 2 free days, hoping it boosts things, if not then it doesn't. I tried.
Hoping Book 2 is ready soon too:)
Does anyone use affilaite thingy - does that work?
Alexandra wrote: "yes price it at £1000 and see if anyone has autoclick to buy"*Cat walks over keyboard*
Tim wrote: "You had that one coming, Jim! ;)"Which is interesting. I've just switched from internet exploder to google chrome. It has a spell checker thrown in, but of course it's American so keeps making mistakes. Anyway I succumbed to its blandishments and allowed it to change a word or two here and there.
Well that's taught me, no more mister nice guy. The technology shall be taught its place!
Spell checkers are the spawn of Beelzebub. They lure you into a false sense of security. I use google chrome thanks Geoff) but I query it when it gives me a wiggly line!
Sometimes the look inside only shows front matter or table of contets, that's an automatic fail and lost sale as far as I'm concerned.
I think it gives 10% so if it's a very short book you might not get further than the contents and dedications etc. You should get more in a full length novel.
As a reader, I don't care who's fault it is... ;) Better to have no 'Look inside' at all in those situations.
UK Amazon Kindle Forum
Books mentioned in this topic
The Lewis Man (other topics)The Weight of Blood (other topics)
The Eye of Divinity (other topics)
The Book of Deacon (other topics)
The Witch Sea (other topics)
More...
I don't necessarily agree with these sentiments, both as a reader and a writer but I was wondering what other people's opinions were.