Richard III discussion
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The Shadow Prince
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What could have happened to Dickon? READ THIS.
I read it about this time last year, Joanne, and really enjoyed it. I'd previously read Morgan's first book, which I also thought was great. I bet he was a fab Lit teacher.
Darkpool wrote: "I read it about this time last year, Joanne, and really enjoyed it. I'd previously read Morgan's first book, which I also thought was great. I bet he was a fab Lit teacher."He was a legend in our school. Really brought literature to life. I'd always loved reading but he took my love for literature to a whole new level!
The Master of Bruges was good, wasn't it?
What I liked about The Shadow Prince was his reason why Perkin Warbeck "disappeared" or, in this case, put a stop to his claims to the throne. I won't spoil it for those who haven't read it, but it seemed very human.
Thanks for your reply!
Mod
Hi Misfit -- you can certainly get it from Dunaway Books on Grand Boulevard in St. Louis! Thanks to Joanne for those lovely comments. (She was a cracking student too, by the way!)
Wow... this thread reads like blatant promotion. *Vomit*
No, the original comments by Joanne and Misfit were made in good faith without any prompting from me and, having been doing an admitted promotion in St. Louis, I know that the book is available there, but only in that shop. Sorry, Orsolya!
Mod
Thanks, Misfit, for re-opening the thread!Orsolya, if I intended to promote the book blatantly, I would have done so when it was launched more than a year ago.
I brought it up here and now, as mentioned above, in light of R3's recent skeletal discovery. My purpose was to invite Group members to conjecture about what happened to the two princes in the tower - and the pretender Perkin Warbeck, in particular.
Also, had I not been asleep over here in Asia, I would have jumped in before Mr Morgan to say that it's available in Kindle edition both in the US and UK stores. He wouldn't have had to reply himself to Misfit about the availability in the US.
I'm sorry if you found it so revolting. And I'm even sorrier if I inadvertently turned anyone off Terence Morgan's book!
Mod
Sorry to all that I opened this can of hornets. I'll say no more and let the books speak for themselves.
Oh goodness. I read the whole kit-n-kaboodle and did not see any promotion going on here....not the kind we dislike. It seems very clear to me that Joanne had a great lit professor (lucky girl) and given the historical uproar over R3 these days, it was a book suggestion, not a promotion. Heck, I'm guilty of recommending Susan H's books all the time....
Don't think Terence has a darned thing to be sorry for.
And Master of Bruges was indeed recommended by Misfit....I know because she passed her copy on to me right after I returned from a trip to Bruges (haven't read it yet....I swear it's on the pile, though!). :)
Don't think Terence has a darned thing to be sorry for.
And Master of Bruges was indeed recommended by Misfit....I know because she passed her copy on to me right after I returned from a trip to Bruges (haven't read it yet....I swear it's on the pile, though!). :)
I do not apologize for my reaction or interpretation and still don't fully agree with the comments. However, if I am wrong, then that is great! I would rather be wrong in this context.
I hope you don't take offense with my disagreeing with you, Orsolya....you're one of the nicest people I've met here on GR and I would not have publicly disagreed if I honestly, truly didn't believe what I wrote. I've seen enough of the bad kind of sock-puppetry (I just made that word up, lol) to know it when I see it and this just really isn't it.
ps....how do I know you're a kind person? because you keep giving PG chances when we both know she doesn't deserve them...then we both laugh when we end up banging our heads against a wall over her books. Ha ha ha. :D
ps....how do I know you're a kind person? because you keep giving PG chances when we both know she doesn't deserve them...then we both laugh when we end up banging our heads against a wall over her books. Ha ha ha. :D
No offense taken! All is well and I am glad that you all can discuss this book. Again, if I am wrong with my interpretation, I am glad. I was simply weary of the OP's comment and then a comment immediately by the author with no photo, etc. It didn't line up but I guess I was wrong! Hahaha!! I like to torture myself sometimes with PG! ;) Although her last book wasn't AS bad.
Mod
damn. So I didn't make 'sock-puppetry' up. Thought I was on to something new, lol.
Orsolya wrote: "No offense taken! All is well and I am glad that you all can discuss this book. Again, if I am wrong with my interpretation, I am glad. I was simply weary of the OP's comment and then a comment imm..."Hi Orsolya,
I'm baffled by computers/internet etc -- nothing more complex than a pair of scissors for me! That's why there's no photo -- I wouldn't know how to put one on. If it's possible to make a pig's ear of something then I'll do it -- as I did with this thread, but it's ignorance, not calculated chicanery. Hope we're all friends again now!
I am horrible at linking books and covers too. Note to self: work on that. :p
What's OP? Would that be me in this instance?
Mod
Original poster, and that would be you :)
Thanks for letting me know, Misfit. Funny how someone can get weary of my comments when I'd, at the point of the vomit, only posted two short comments - one recommending the book, and the other responding to Darkpool.
Further, if I was engaging in sock-puppetry (got to love that phrase!) to promote the book, I wouldn't have stated upfront that the author was my teacher, thus declaring my affiliation.
Anyway, no offence taken, and none received, I hope.
Back to being a silent member of this Group then! :)
Okay Joanne, get over it and stop provoking and prodding the issue. It was stated that it wasn't the case so move on. You are making yourself look worse.
I don't think that Joanne is the one making herself look bad.
I'm not the one that keeps bringing this up. I commented that I misread her intentions and left it at that. The moderator of this group knows me and my status and thus, I am not one that has ever started trouble so sorry, but I am in the clear. Again, Joanne needs to drop it. I get that she wasn't promoting. Case closed. Moving on sweethearts!
Mod
Agreed! (shaking head in mystification with a little eye roll thrown in for good measure).
ps....I bought the book, Joanne. It might take me a bit to get around to reading it, but it sounded like it was worth a read and purchase. :D
ps....I bought the book, Joanne. It might take me a bit to get around to reading it, but it sounded like it was worth a read and purchase. :D
Michele wrote: "Agreed! (shaking head in mystification with a little eye roll thrown in for good measure).ps....I bought the book, Joanne. It might take me a bit to get around to reading it, but it sounded like..."
Hope you like it, Michele. Some bits are pretty far out as Mr Morgan fills in what Perkin Warbeck could have been up to in the interim years before staking his claim to the throne and afterwards when he decides to relinquish his claim. But it makes for interesting reading, nonetheless!
Mod
I only saw dead tree on Ammy, Misfit.
I'm sure it'll be a fun read, Joanne, and thx for the recommendation!
I'm sure it'll be a fun read, Joanne, and thx for the recommendation!
Actually, come to think of it... Now that they have Richard III's DNA, they can test the DNA of the two child skeletons found in the tower and see whether they are related, no???
In theory, yes they could. Unfortunately, the government shot that idea down. :(
Mod
That's what I read as well. It sure would be fascinating to know if those bodies are or are not the boys.
Misfit wrote: "Michele wrote: "In theory, yes they could. Unfortunately, the government shot that idea down. :("That's what I read as well. It sure would be fascinating to know if those bodies are or are not th..."
Did they??? Do you remember where you read it?
I wonder why. I mean, this is an excellent chance to put that mystery to rest. If it were a recent crime, there'd be no question as to ascertaining their identities.
Just thinking aloud, what repurcussions would there be if indeed it was found that the two child skeletons were not the princes?
Misfit wrote: "Is this on Kindle in the US, or only dead tree version?"It's definitely available in the US Kindle shop.
Mod
It's definitely available in the US Kindle shop."
Linky please?
Misfit wrote: "Joanne wrote: "Misfit wrote: "Is this on Kindle in the US, or only dead tree version?"It's definitely available in the US Kindle shop."
Linky please?"
Haha sure. It's here: http://www.amazon.com/Shadow-Prince-e...
Mod
Misfit wrote: "Thank you for the link, but there's no option to purchase. Damn these international borders and Kindle books :/"How strange. I get around it by registering my address as a US address at a friend's place. It accepts my Singapore-based credit card well enough. And you live in the US, right? Very strange. Turn on your one-click settings? Register your iPad? That's what I do.
I also buy from the UK store using my old university address which works fine!
Joanne wrote: "Now that they have Richard III's DNA, they can test the DNA of the two child skeletons found in the tower and see whether they are related, no??? "No. Edward IV's children have Elizabeth Woodville's mtDNA, not Cecily Neville's mtDNA, so there's no connection to the maternal line. The boys would have some of Edward IV's nucleic DNA (if retrievable), particularly on the Y chromosome. Idealy, they'd need to find a living descent of Elizabeth Woodville's maternal line (the living descendent could be male as long as his mother came straight from the female chain) to test against the mtDNA (if retrievable).
Misfit wrote: "Thank you for the link, but there's no option to purchase. Damn these international borders and Kindle books :/ " I found the same thing, Misfit. The book is listed as a Kindle on Amazon.com, but no pricing is available on the US site.
I agree that it would be fascinating to DNA test the bones of the boys found in the 17th century. But if it were done and they were found to be the "little princes in the Tower," that would not mean Richard III murdered them. It would simply mean that Perkin Warbeck was not whom he claimed to be! I have always believed that they died in the summer of 1483, although many disagree. It does seem a pity that the queen shot the idea of DNA testing down, though.
Mod
Joan wrote: "Joanne wrote: "Now that they have Richard III's DNA, they can test the DNA of the two child skeletons found in the tower and see whether they are related, no??? "No. Edward IV's children have Eli..."
Thanks for that explanation, Joan. I never really understood the DNA technology. That said, they do have Elizabeth Woodville's buried remains and science now (as compared to when they disinterred the princes' bones in 1933) can do a match, no?
Sharon wrote: "I agree that it would be fascinating to DNA test the bones of the boys found in the 17th century. But if it were done and they were found to be the "little princes in the Tower," that would not me..."I personally always believed it was Buckingham whodunnit and left R3 with a fait accompli. That's why Richard could never produce the boys and yet was not the murderer of his brother's children. I just can't believe a younger brother who fought alongside his older brother for decades and supported him so loyally all the way to the throne could then just do away with his kids so heartlessly.
But sadly, yes, I guess a DNA test would just determine their identities - royal or otherwise - and we'd all still be no wiser as to whether it was Richard's order that murdered them or not. Arg.
Thanks, Joan! It is lovely to have our very own DNA expert on hand. And you really do seem to have second-sight, too, for you deal with Richard's DNA in your third book in your Ricardian series, no? Before the discovery of the King in the Car Park!
Joan wrote: "Misfit wrote: "Thank you for the link, but there's no option to purchase. Damn these international borders and Kindle books :/ " I found the same thing, Misfit. The book is listed as a Kindle on ..."
Drats. Sorry, Misfit and Joan. I didn't notice earlier (while I was multi-tasking at work, whoopsy) that there was no pricing available on the US link.
Try the UK store? If you have a friend's address that you can register under, the delivery can go straight to your Kindle or Kindle app so there are no delivery issues. The link is:
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Shadow-Prince...
It goes for £5.69.
Mod
I suppose we'll never know, but the technology they use keeps on improving and maybe someday...
Probably a case not familiar to those outside of the Pacific Northwest, but in the 80s we had the Green River killer running loose, and one of the suspects had been in custody (briefly), his DNA swabbed and it took years for technology to catch up to that that sample (and those of other suspects) could be tested. Even when they did get a match, it would have been a hard case to prove since Ridgway's lawyers could have argued with the *victim being prostitutes - you can't prove murder*, but there was one other key piece lifted off one of the girls. A tiny bit of paint that was exclusive to only one truck plant and pretty much only one guy working that ever-so-exclusive paint all those years. It was so exciting when they announced the arrest in 2003, made more so by that fact the one of the detectives at the scene of the first murder was now head sheriff and had the privilege of making the announcement and finishing off the investigation.
That is such a good point, Misfit. Technology is advancing faster than the speed of light, so who knows what might be possible in the future. When I first became interested in Richard III, I never dreamed that we'd be able to find and then identify him by DNA.
Misfit wrote: "Sharon wrote: "I agree that it would be fascinating to DNA test the bones of the boys found in the 17th century. But if it were done and they were found to be the "little princes in the Tower," th..."OMG, Misfit. I'm a total serial killer fan - I mean the genre, not the personages themselves - and I absolutely understand your point about the Green River Killer and how exciting that paint match was!
Science and technology really never ceases to amaze. What, indeed, might we find in the future about our favourite historical figures!
Richard III
Books mentioned in this topic
The Tower of London: Stuart and Hanoverian Times (other topics)The Tower of London: Norman Plantagenet and Tudor Times (other topics)
The Stranger Beside Me: Ted Bundy: The Shocking Inside Story (other topics)
Her Highness, the Traitor (other topics)
Hugh and Bess: A Love Story (other topics)
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Authors mentioned in this topic
Terence Morgan (other topics)Joan Szechtman (other topics)
Sharon Kay Penman (other topics)
Terence Morgan (other topics)
Terence Morgan (other topics)
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It conjectures what might have happened to Richard III's younger nephew, who indeed was Perkin Warbeck.
Read it and tell me what you think!