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Why does it seem like authors hate each other so much?
message 51:
by
Jacqueline
(new)
Feb 16, 2013 01:20PM
You're going to have to decide what your comfort level is. Don't ever write what you can't love if you have the freedom to do so. Your readers will know it. But if you feel like you can experience with adding a short, mild sex scene, try it. See what happens. You might be surprised. Sex scenes are intimating but they don't have to be raunchy. They can be very tasteful and romantic. It all depends on what you feel comfortable with.
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Kevin wrote: "Diana wrote: "Kevin wrote: "Diana wrote: "Jaq wrote: "I haven't witnessed much animosity between writers. There is the occasional troll (writing a book doesn't guarantee being a good person any mor..."I'm writing romance, and wonder if I can be successful. I have romance, and build relationships. There are some scenes that are obviously going to lead to sex, but I don't do a play-by-play of graphic sex scenes. Don't want to read it or write it. My daughter and my mother have read my book, and I don't want to be embarrassed by that! :-)
It's disappointing to be constantly hammered with the "sex sells" message. But it's everywhere in our society. I want to sell books, but I won't add gratuitous sex to my novels to do so.
Darlene Deluca
author, Unexpected Legacy
www.threewritersofromance.com
Kevin wrote: "Diana wrote: "Kevin wrote: "Diana wrote: "Kevin wrote: "Diana wrote: "Jaq wrote: "I haven't witnessed much animosity between writers. There is the occasional troll (writing a book doesn't guarantee..."That's a tough place to be, Kevin. But you have to decide what your comfort level is and what you want to be known for.
No judgement on my part of those who choose to write it, like I said for me I write what feels right and what I can live with 15 years from now.
Diana
LOL, it's not shocking at all. When I was that age (I'm 42 now) I was on the hunt for sex in books too. Teens always want to know the how, the what, the when. I look at it like this.
1) Most parents don't have the sex talk with their kids, or if they do it's usually very limited. (I've been a fulltime medic for 20 yrs. Most people don't talk about the truth)
2) As an author, I take it upon myself as a moral obligation to rate my books appropriately with disclaimers. If I knew 12 yr olds wanted more sex I would be very hesitant to give it to them. And if so, I would write it in such a way to be very, very mild. They can trace these things you know.
3) That being said, if you do write any level of sex IMO it would be very careful to represent the characters in as a responsible and moral way as possible. When I rate something 18+ I don't worry about so much, but below 18+ you have to be more cautious these days.
4) Bottom line, even when you rate it, kids will figure out a way to read it because they want to know. Hence why you should be ethical in your writing. Kids can be influenced but they're not stupid.
@kevinVery cool--the thing about Jesus (this is my belief and I'm opening myself up here to be challagenged and that's scary to me!) My belief is Jesus died for what we have done, what we don't know we've done and what we will do even if we know it is wrong. We call it Grace. We are not perfect and can never hope to keep God's law only one could do that, Jesus.
So to answer your question if you write erotica for young girls and later decide it wasn't right and you confess to believing that Jesus died for your sins (and mine!) you will be forgiven. Jesus has taken the judgement for you/us if we choose to belive in Him.
I'm sorry if this sounds preachy. I don't intend it to be.
Diana
@kevin,I'm going off line for awhile so if you write and I don't answer I'm not ignoring you. I need some rest after this long week of promoting. Feel free to email me dlbrandmeyer@gmail if you want to take this off the board.
Diana
Jon wrote: "Omar! Does the name Adolph Gamesh ring a bell? It should. He told me that he bought your book a few minutes before he tried to order mine, but you charged him 25 cents too much and he didn't hav..."Jon,
Yes, I remember that name well. Gamesh, Gamesh, Gamesh. Poor Gamesh. My pen may never move again.
But Hannah is correct! It was you Jon! You hands are just as bloody as mine. So many words. Too many words! Gamesh needed that quarter to pay for moving so many words. I am afraid Jon, my dear friend, that blood is on both of our hands.
Omar.... looking down as he slowly walks away. Spots Hannah running to Jon, consoling him...
Jon, sensing danger at his back, pushes the becorsetted Hannah out of reach of Omar's slashing blade. The tip, jagged from prior engagements, sings with pain as it tastes the meaty bulge beneath Jon's thumb."So it's backstabbing, is it?" Jon drew his own epee, old steel but thirsty. "Have at you, then, blaggard!"
"What witchery be in these words that distance my mind from the bloody wet task at hand?" Jon slices the air in grievance, very nearly parrying Omar's thrusting rapier before it buries its debole into Kevin's shoulder."Dear God!" the interloper cried out. "I am undone and with't, I am done."
Omar's thin lips drew back in a cliched rictus. "Be done, then, and begone." Then his smile flattened and her turned once again to Jon and without a second's rest, rang out steel on steel, one on one.
Jon and Omar parry back and forth like two skilled circus acrobats. Back and forth the blades fly, occasionally striking flesh, flying back with droplets of blood trailing behind. Hannah, standing in the corner, gasps each time Omar's singing blade strikes Jon.
Tiring of the fight, and sensing that Jon may soon get the upper hand, Omar makes a dash for Hannah...
...and stumbles upon his own boots, splaying akimbo onto the keep's granite floor, klaxons spilling from his purse. Jon gasps, "What be this, handiwork of Satan?"
"Ah-OOOOOOGah!"
Kevin, it seems was better than both Jon and Omar. Waiting till they were too tired to continue, his mighty pen cut left and right. When he was done, both Jon and Omar lay on the floor, in a slowly expanding pool of blood. "Beautiful Hannah", Kevin says as he walks over to her. "You've done your job well. They are both gone."
Hannah takes his outstretched arm and the two begin walking away.
"Where shall we go next?" she asks.
In the good old US of A sport opponents talk smack to one-another, "Yo, bro, my mother can shoot baskets better than you!" "Yea, when did she get out of prison?" Harmless bantering among millionaires is both expected and returned. However, when the whistle blows it is game time and smack becomes the sound of elbows meeting chins and bodies making contact with the floor.
They call it a game, which brings to mind a group of kids playing together, but in the adult world game is redefined as warfare. The old slogan "It doesn't matter if you win or loose, its how you played the game" BULL! Who remembers the looser?
From reading the on going conversations I believe it is the same with authors. Most talk smack using a more advanced vocabulary than most of the players in the NBA or NFL, but never the less jerking the other guy's chain. Some players go through a routine before a game to intensify themselves in belief that they'll play a better game. Often this huff-n-puffin gets out of hand and becomes physical. I suppose authors also puff themselves up thinking that it will make them a better writer than the rest. Again it can often explode into hurtful exchanges - gladiators of words trying to pin their opponent to the ground then turning to the on-lookers for a thumbs down demonstrating they rule the turf.
But not everyone is like that, in fact I would wager that they are in the minority. However, like life people pay attention to the worst than to the good. Why is that? If we ever found that answer to that question the world would be a better place.
I leave you with these words, "I'm the Greatest! I float like a butterfly and sting like a bee." "Since you can't count to ten, I'll take you down in seven!"
It's page two and no one has ripped a bodice, nor is it a dark and stormy night (knight?) Not a best seller in the genre.
"Kevin! So THIS is where you've been hiding, you scullery dog! Your dastardly penmanship pierced Omar's heart and you would have had me, as well, had not I set forth on that fateful day with my father's Guttenburg Bible next to my heart. You shall answer for the ink stains thereupon, sir, and for the reputation of the fair Hannah, who you have befouled with ill intent.""Ha ha ha!" Kevin laughed the haughty laugh of a man unafraid of death. "Ha ha ha! Ha! You ignorant foole. That's 'whom' I have befouled."
"Details matter not, you bounder. Care you nothing for the woman, now suited only for a life in a nunnery? Give your answer to my blade and your apology to its hilt!"
Jon slid the three-sided blade from its scabbard and whipped the point across Kevin's face, opening a wide valley beneath his left eye...
Point and set, the match goes to Jon! See what happens when two tennis authors play out their hostilities with blades instead of rackets, they cut each other to pieces. One must remember that when it comes to tennis relationships mean nothing.Kevin, at least its a face wound
You can have romance without sex, the same as you can have sex without romance. Read and indeed write what you are comfortable with. Now my fantasy romance has sex scenes in, and I make no qualms about that but if that sort of book isn't for you then fair enough:)It took me a while to be comfortable writing that sort of scene and I still get a slightly odd feeling when I know my aunt read it.
There are plenty of great romance books without sex or implied scenes. I like romance and I like erotica, not necessarily together. If your target audience would be uncomfortable with sexual scenes then leave them out. Plenty of passion and emotion without the old heave-ho. Even the whole "we can't succumb we are not married" if that is what suits you.
Hehe yes teenagers are always interested in nookie. I think it is risky though, if you list your book as 18+ and someone below that reads it there probably isn't much to be done, to be honest but if the book has no rating but characters are at it all the time and the scenes are described that might not be appropriate.
I doubt there is an easy answer to that.
My, my, how this thread has degenerated from its original topic...
Kevin wrote: "Flee from me shall you not! For no longer shall it be, that whilst mine own rage thunders over this land, too shall yours be concluded"Your mother.
Kevin wrote: "LOL! Actually, that...""Yeeesssssss, I know. And now you know that I know the secret known but to gnomes abed in their homes, no...SEHN?"
Kevin gasped, aghast and agape at hearing his elf-name, momentarily stunned into inaction as Jon's ancient blade whipped anew and tasted fresh blood from his tiny adversary's right ear.
"Damn! Not the ear! Hast thou an inkling of a notion how that hurts?"
"Then stand and fight..."
"...I am standing!"
"Quibble not, ye whining sissie."
"Am not."
"Indeed, thou art."
"Nay, thou!"
"So sayest you, without effect upon my bones."
"Prevaricator! Behold, thy breeches have burst into flame." Jon times Kevin's reflexes perfectly and, with twin lunges, shaves his opponent's right eyebrow.
Grabbing a convenient looking glass, Sehn/Kevin inspected the delicate wound. "Thou blaggard! Thou damned fraternity pledge! Thou goat penis! The urge to sleep, sweet Morpheus, shall overtake thee at some hour and I shall be there!"
"Where? Name the place!"
"How does one go about getting their book reviewed."
Tarry not, the game's afoot in the thread "How does one go about getting their book reviewed"There you will find the fencing arena's floor to be as cold as my blade. You will find that elves have shortcomings. You will find God, and by God, you will find me, epee at the ready and already red.
I believe the Authors who have any respect for the craft and themselves don't hate the competition. I admire anyone who dares to walk down the road of an "Indie Author." It's a sometimes long and lonely road to travel but if you love what you do and persevere...then success is sure to follow. There are great people here on GR. People will graciously lend their support. Align yourself with them and forget about the rest of the "Haters." :D
Debra wrote: "I believe the Authors who have any respect for the craft and themselves don't hate the competition. I admire anyone who dares to walk down the road of an "Indie Author." It's a sometimes long and l..."Quite right. I meet a lot of interesting writers here, some more generous than others, but on the whole, more good people than bad.
Re sex in romance novels: As a romance novelist who sells some books, I've been surprised at the huge variation in steam levels in romance. There's a market for every level, from a few kisses to erotica. And people read at different levels too. People buy my books who read a LOT of BDSM romance, and they enjoy my books too. Or they read mine, and also read YA. (On the other hand, I also get disgusted reviews from people who say they thought it would be "clean," and it wasn't! The same book will get comments like, "Too much explicit sex," and "I liked that the book wasn't all about sex, sex, sex." Many different tastes out there.)Write what you like to read. But if the sex is quite low-key, make it a selling point by saying in your blurb that it's a clean romance. Believe me, there are readers out there looking for that.
*smiles at Omar, Jon, and Kevin*Ah, guys! You know my heart only belongs to Jon....until he dies, then I'd move on to Kevin, since he is closer to my age. Sorry Omar!
Talk about graphic sex scenes in romance, I find them a total turn off. I mean, a little I can handle, but a whole book of it? HEnce to say, I never read Fifty Shades of Grey.
A word to Kevin and Omar - did you catch the, "until he dies" part? I'll let you two work out the rest. Omar, it appears that your only chance is a double homicide!
*shakes her head at Fredrick*You all are still older men, so you all have a chance. I just have a preference order, but seriously, I love harmlessly flirting with all ofyou. "Cause the fact is I'm alread engaged to a British American. No one can top that.
*smiles and winks*
A British American? No one can top that because the fellow is a two faced fake. He is either British or American. He can not be both!!!
Hannah wrote: "*smiles at Omar, Jon, and Kevin*Ah, guys! You know my heart only belongs to Jon....until he dies, then I'd move on to Kevin, since he is closer to my age. Sorry Omar!
Omar: Et tu, Hannah? So fall, Omar!
Debbie: Authors, Reviewers, readers, lend me your ears;
I come to bury Omar, not to praise him.
The poor reviews that men do lives after them;
The good is oft interred with their bones;
So let it be with Omar. The noble Hannah
Hath told you Omar was too old:
If it were so, it was a grievous fault,
And grievously hath Omar answer'd it.
Here, under leave of Hannah, Jon and Kevin -
For Hannah is an honourable woman;
So are they all, all honourable authors and reviewers -
Come I to speak in Omar's funeral.
He was my reviewer, faithful and just to me:
But Hannah says he was too old;
And Hannah is an honourable woman.
He hath brought a few books home to Goodreads
Whose ransoms did the general coffers fill:
Did this in Omar seem too old?
When that the authors have asked, Omar hath reviewed:
Yet Hannah says he was too old;
And Hannah is an honourable woman.
I speak not to disprove what Hannah spoke,
But here I am to speak what I do know.
You all did love him once, not without cause:
O judgment! thou art fled to brutish beasts,
And men have lost their reason. Bear with me;
My heart is in the coffin there with Omar,
And I must pause till it come back to me.
Ah! I loved that Omar!But I never said old wasn't hawt.
Hannah wrote: "Ah! I loved that Omar!But I never said old wasn't hawt."
That is true. Just ask my love of 26 years and counting.
May you and yours last twice as long.
In memory we shall name this time, "The Ides of February" in honor of Omar who was struck down in the later prime of his life. We have come to dedicate a portion of Omar, as a final resting place for he who gave his life that Hanna might live. It is altogether fitting and proper that we should do this.
But, in a larger sense, we can not dedicate, we can not consecrate, we can not hallow this ground. The brave men, living and dead, who struggled for Hanna, have consecrated it, far above our poor power to add or detract. The world will little note, nor long remember what Omar said here, but it can never forget what he did here. It is for us the living, rather, to be dedicated here to the unfinished work which Omar fought so nobly for. It is rather for us to mock him and proceed in our quest for Hanna - even if her heart is with another. I'm in tears!
Jeez Louise! Has anyone seen Kevin? I was waiting for him over in "How does one go about getting their book reviewed", but Omar hijacked the thread and then went to bed (damn you Dr Seuss).
Hannah wrote: "*shakes her head at Fredrick*You all are still older men, so you all have a chance. I just have a preference order, but seriously, I love harmlessly flirting with all ofyou. "Cause the fact is I'm..."
Dearest Hannah, how do you know that I'm older? What magic mirror do you possess that you can see me yet hides my true image. I - like your other, am a conflicted soul divided by marriage between an Englishman and an American. Thus I float in the pond that separates the two countries. If you go forth with this man, think what conflict you shall inflect upon your children. For what allegiance shall they bide for, two-thirds American, one-third British, three-quarters American and one-quarter British, or much worse would be five-eighths American and three-eighths English.
Something to ponder and reflect upon.
Jon wrote: "Jeez Louise! Has anyone seen Kevin? I was waiting for him over in "How does one go about getting their book reviewed", but Omar hijacked the thread and then went to bed (damn you Dr Seuss)."It was Hannha's turn to watch him!
Mostly here people are supportive and can have a laugh, especially for newbies.Yes some authors can be mean-spirited but perhaps they are simply that way anyway, same as any other walk of life. I have encountered unhelpful authors and in some cases downright rude but not often here.
Don't blame me Fred. I saw Kevin getting close to Diana and got bored in my quest. Maybe horror of all horrors, he grew tired of us and cast his body over the rocks in hopes that the pain would erase the pain that we hath inflicted upon his tortured soul........Or maybe he had to work on the holiday.
Sex, the promise of sex, the tantalizing, titillating allure of sex is the gossamer thread that draws us together and keeps many of us together--and drives others apart. Do we need to bathe our lovemaking in bright light for others to see? I think not. But to hide it, as if it didn't exist, isn't that a distortion of the human story? Gone with the Wind is a classic, and no, it didn't need to show the physical side of their relationships any more than it did--because that was how the times were. Sex was hidden then; suppressed beneath yards of crinoline. Today's stories and outfits leave little to the imagination, so Fifty Shades makes sense and is appropriate for the times.
I agree with William, it is true Gone with the Wind has no sex, imagine the outrage had done so. Think on Lady Chatterly's Lover - also a classic and banned for years and stuffed with sex.There is a place for clean romance and a place for erotica, both can be enjoyable. Read what suits you.
Gone With The Wind was radical for its time - remember the famous line, "Frankly I don't give a Damn". Wow!
I find that readers (and writers) are much more willing to read "down" steam-wise than up. That is, people who read erotic romance/erotica will also read all the way down to "clean" romance and enjoy it, if the romance is there. People are much more likely to be hateful about books higher on the steam level than where they themselves write/read. Including me. I don't mind erotic romance or erotica, but find myself distressed and repelled by the hurtin' stuff (BDSM romance). But there is no question that is extremely popular right now.
Kevin wrote: "I'm going to assume that post was satirical, Jon?"
Well said. I have had mixed responses and i have also been on the kindle forum but quickly withdrew. Some people are ruthless. However, here on goodreads i have only met people who see the bigger picture. I am starving having been made redundant two years ago but i don't want to tread on any ones toes.
I went on a review site. I felt I was honest and was generous with my marking and opinions. I realised that everyones styles were so different that there should be room for us all. I was not received wih the same generosity more hostility, much of which made little sense. From the remarks, I think most just glanced at my chapters and it was all contradictory.
Like in life I stay away from those likely to drag me down. I seek out those rare people that are able to think on more than one level.
Well said. I have had mixed responses and i have also been on the kindle forum but quickly withdrew. Some people are ruthless. However, here on goodreads i have only met people who see the bigger picture. I am starving having been made redundant two years ago but i don't want to tread on any ones toes.
I went on a review site. I felt I was honest and was generous with my marking and opinions. I realised that everyones styles were so different that there should be room for us all. I was not received wih the same generosity more hostility, much of which made little sense. From the remarks, I think most just glanced at my chapters and it was all contradictory.
Like in life I stay away from those likely to drag me down. I seek out those rare people that are able to think on more than one level.
While there is an element of generalisation in your question you are not the first person to have expressed such sentiments. In one discussion group to which I belong an author commented to me that in her opinion some auhtors saw the publishing game as something akin to the Hunger Games. I personally haven't experienced much in the way of negativity but I must admit that I am new to being an author and I am willing to accept that I still have much to learn.
Certain sites are very negative. I know we all want to rise but other indies aren't our enemy. We would be better off supporting each other. It seems to work for the music industry.
Tarian wrote: "Certain sites are very negative. I know we all want to rise but other indies aren't our enemy. We would be better off supporting each other. It seems to work for the music industry."Here's an example. I read & enjoyed another author's book & gave her her first review on Amazon, just because I thought it was good. I didn't know her brother owns a book store. I've now sold 16 paperbacks to that bookstore. Be nice, you never know.
K.A. wrote: "Tarian wrote: "Certain sites are very negative. I know we all want to rise but other indies aren't our enemy. We would be better off supporting each other. It seems to work for the music industry."..."The "Golden Rule" actually works, imagine that.
I think you are correct K.A. Although i went on a review site and went out of my way to be encouraging. Unfortunately people weren't so generous back. But i do believe you get what you give eventually.
I found out last night that another indie author had posted my first book on her blog and pointed out to her many readers in some detail what was wrong with my writing. Thanks! OTOH, I've sold a lot more books than she has :), so there ya go.As some comic (Elaine Boosler, I think) used to say about comics who felt the others were "the competition": there's always another platter of shrimp coming around. Lots of readers out there, and they read lots of books. Room for us all.
