Constant Reader discussion
Constant Reader
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A Failure of Imagination Why Bookish and other recommendation engines fall short
The only feature that's been helpful to me is Amazon's "people who bought this also bought ...." Interesting article, and the linked one about Barnes and Noble.
John wrote: "The only feature that's been helpful to me is Amazon's "people who bought this also bought ...." Interesting article, and the linked one about Barnes and Noble."Goodreads has actually come up with some very good choices for me, and Amazon on occasion. Have no idea what Audible plugs in for me, because it is most often off-the-radar completely. I do wish it would stop suggesting Gone Girl (which I read in print). :-)
Ruth - great article. Thank you for posting it.Very seldom do recommendations seem to work for me. I rely most on several of my Goodreads friends - and the generous people here who take the time to share their insights on their reading experiences.
Even the award winners don't seem to make it often for me. Sometimes, but not always. My reading mood is also a factor which noone or nothing can predict. I am hopeless and read all kinds of genres. So much for predictability.
Amazon's recommendations are useless to me because half of what I buy is not for myself.
Julie wrote: "Amazon's recommendations are useless to me because half of what I buy is not for myself."Exactly. What are they going to suggest for me because I like Goodnight Moon?
I feel that I am being told what to read on no authority or evidence. There are more good books than I can read even going by my own strongly held views of what's readable. I like getting out of the box but I need to be convinced that I should spend valuable time. For that I want a dialog, or to see the book. A review will sometimes do. A list won't. An Amazon pick puts my back up.
I pay a lot more attention to recommendations here in this thread than any from GR or Amazon.
Constant Reader is the main source of book ideas for me -- outside of my own little loopy reading pattern from a lifetime of addiction to books. I do value certain other indivudlas I've encountered in the Goodreads population at large for input as well and only yesterday discovered a friend early encountered in another group here on the site had been encouraged by my review of a book to pick it up -- I had seen she was enjoying the book and commented on that and she kindly said she'd liked my review of it. I really believe it isn't the random and mathmatical recommendations that are the key here on Goodreads but the people within the groups into which we find our way who are our best source.
I too get my recommendations from my two groups, or people here who send me a recommendation. The full article would not load for me, but I think I got the jest of the subject.
I bought a couple of head-banging metal CDs as a gift, and it took forever for Amazon to realize I wasn't ever going to by any more Anthrax or System of a Down.
Peggy wrote: "I bought a couple of head-banging metal CDs as a gift, and it took forever for Amazon to realize I wasn't ever going to by any more Anthrax or System of a Down."There is a function on Amazon that allows one to edit their recommendations...you are able to delete items such as you mention. I know, I've certainly used it. It's quite handy. :)
Interesting article. I hardly ever garner any recommendations from the lists on GR. I mostly go by reviews I read here, and recommendations from Amazon...they know me all too well, for the most part. heh
The Goodreads website recommendations don't do too badly in suggesting books that I might be interested in - I've certainly added quite a few to my TBR list!! When you look at the recommendations page, each book suggested has an option to click "not interested" so that this book isn't recommended again and I assume that telling Goodreads that you don't want to read a certain book goes to improve future recommendations for you, just as rating books improves recommendations (supposedly, anyway!). I only wish there were more hours in the day to allow for more reading!
Ruth wrote: "Julie wrote: "Amazon's recommendations are useless to me because half of what I buy is not for myself."Exactly. What are they going to suggest for me because I like Goodnight Moon?"
On Amazon, you can tell it not to use certain purchases for recommendations. I get a lot of Kindle books for my mother - I tell it not to use those for my recommendations because we like very different books.
I tend to rely more on GR and Amazon "also bought" for new books.
I read the book reviews in the LA Times.
I do appreciate that the Goodreads reccomendations can be guided by my own choice of what shelves they use for the calculation which can offer up some gems of interest. Or at least the last time I looked that was possible.
Constant Readers are my first choice sources of book recommendations. I frequently add titles to my TBR List that have been recommended by fellow CR's and sometimes read them right away. Amazon is not bad, I will at least take a look at the books they recommend, but I also read reviews in the Washington Post, The New Yorker, National Review, and The New Criterion.
I don't WANT any more recommendations! I have too many books to read as it IS.
Sherry wrote: "I don't WANT any more recommendations! I have too many books to read as it IS."Ha! Good point!
Sherry wrote: "I don't WANT any more recommendations! I have too many books to read as it IS."Exactly -- I get into enough trouble on my very own most of the time. Always did. THEN I found constant Reader. Now Goodreads. I just have to look at things and I find books hopping onto the lists - hee-hee-hee.
Oh, pish. No sucha thing as "too many books"!! /giggle-snort/
Cateline wrote: "Oh, pish. No sucha thing as "too many books"!! /giggle-snort/"Absolutely. And the next one suggested might be absolutely fantastic!
Exactly? That's why my tbr will eventually be the size of DA-13 (or whatever that space blob's name is.
Sue wrote: "Exactly? That's why my tbr will eventually be the size of DA-13 (or whatever that space blob's name is."Hah, already there, so there is no turning back now. Too late, too late. lol
Sara wrote: "Cateline wrote: "Oh, pish. No sucha thing as "too many books"!! /giggle-snort/"
Absolutely. And the next one suggested might be absolutely fantastic!"
I count on that!! :D
Ruth wrote: "Julie wrote: "Amazon's recommendations are useless to me because half of what I buy is not for myself."Exactly. What are they going to suggest for me because I like Goodnight Moon?"
well, goodnight moon is a very good book:)
Worthwhile article. Thanks for posting it.Really its just another example of corporations falling-all-over-themselves to tap into 'Big Data'. But BD is nothing without the right methodology; even with *good* processing it doesn't mean much. But you can't tell them that.
Personally, I find myself trusting any other recommendation source for myself--other than myself-- decreasing as the publishing industry exhibits increasing havoc. The more they 'go digital' the less rope I'm willing to grant them.
The word 'editor' used to mean something to me. Not so much anymore though. The more they change direction with every slight shift in the wind, the less I'm convinced they have my best interests at heart. Its a sad feeling.
I would give more credit perhaps to someone with a solid track record, someone who takes a stand for tradition, perhaps a writer I admire. Harlan Ellison, for example, has good things to say these days.
Anthony wrote:..Ruth wrote: "Julie wrote: "Amazon's recommendations are useless to me because half of what I buy is not for myself."Exactly. What are they going to suggest for me because I like Goodnight Moon?"
well, goodnight moon is a very good book:) ."
Granted, but I'm a little past that stage.
I like many of the recommendations that I get here on Goodreads. At the same time I don't always like my friends recommendations. A data source will never be able to get into every single nuance of why you like one thing or another. It's foolish to expect it to.
My physical book group (there are 7 of us who meet once a month) established a rule that at least one person has to have completely read the book before recommending it...and EVEN THEN we have ended up with some real disasters....we usually don't go wrong if we read a classic...
Wanda -- you remind me of a writing class I took years ago where the instructor assigned Jane Hamilton's The Book of Ruth to illustrate her effective techniques. Unfortunately, as a group we hated the book!
Roxanne wrote: "Ruth - great article. Thank you for posting it.Very seldom do recommendations seem to work for me. I rely most on several of my Goodreads friends - and the generous people here who take the time t..."
Roxanne -- much of what you say fits me very well also.
Amazon plugs many books I've alread read -- and the loss of the click to say I've already read this or I own it has left me to ignore them totally.
Great article, thanks for bringing it to my attention. My favorite line is "The irony of these book recommendation engines is that they seek to solve a problem that society doesn't have." The author then goes on to point out that there are already plenty of smart, functioning search engines that exists in the form of various literary critics, one's favorite bookstore, one's trusted bookish friends, etc. I couldn't agree more. That being said, I do use Goodreads to find out about new books, but not so much through the recommendations the GR search engine generates. Rather I look at what people write about a book in their review. Even if a person doesn't like the book, when they explain why, something they wrote might interest me in reading the book. In other words, what usually brings a book to my attention are the words (and sometimes the cover) - as in the description on the back cover or a review I read or heard. That's something that Bookish, Amazon, and even GR's search engine can't replicate.
I find my friends at Shelfari to be the best source of new good books!
Tiffani wrote:Rather I look at what people write about a book in their review. Even if a person doesn't like the book, when they explain why, something they wrote might interest me in reading the book. In other words, what usually brings ...Good point, Tiffani! That's what I look for in reviews: why exactly the reader did or didn't like a book. If a reviewer writes that a book was "too slow and atmospheric," I get a better picture than if he or she just says it was "long and boring". Unfortunately, reviewers (myself included!)can't always pin down what exactly they enjoyed or disliked in a book (I never know what "well-written" actually means to the person writing the review!)and press reviews by book critics tend to divulge and analyse so much that they sometimes spoil the experience for me, although I love reading in-depth reviews on a novel after I've read it.
When I buy books it's mostly because they've been recommended by a friend, but I'll make a purchase if I like an excerpt. As an author, that's a little scary. Man do I need to make that excerpt zing.Elf Ahearn
A Rogue in Sheep's Clothing
Coming into this thread late, but better late than never. For me, over the last decade, my choice of reading has been heavily influenced by four things. The first is by starting the first novel of a particular series, e.g. Michael Connelly's Harry Bosch series The Black Echo, and find that I really like it. That will hook me totally and I'm off and reading until I read the whole series. The second is certainly Amazon recommendations ... they have more and more influenced me. Amazon knows me too well ... ever since my first purchase on November 18, 1996 of Mary Doria Russell's The Sparrow. Third there are my favorite book reviewers, e.g. Michael Dirda. Changes affecting book review publications have lessened this as a source, but that is not a development that I favor. And then there are recommendations by friends, both in physical life and here on GoodReads/Constant Reader. To be honest, book recommendation engines other than the collaborative filtering done by Amazon haven't been my major source, but I have a feeling that they will become more and more important both generally and to me specifically.
Larry, I totally admire your memory. You know the exact date of your first purchase on Amazon -- really impressive. Occasionally I'll read a review and feel compelled to buy the book, but more often than not, I rely on word filtering down to me. Sometimes Jon Stewart will talk to an author; sometimes I'll read a review in the New Yorker; but mostly I'll pick up a book based on what a friend said about it or that I've heard the title "in the wind." So far, Amazon doesn't know me well enough to make my picks for me.
Elf wrote: "Larry, I totally admire your memory. You know the exact date of your first purchase on Amazon -- really impressive. Occasionally I'll read a review and feel compelled to buy the book, but more oft..."
Elf, you are way too generous ... actually, you can just go into YOUR ACCOUNT and then YOUR ORDERS on Amazon and then look at all the items, books and everything else, that you have bought over the years.
And now that Amazon knows me so well, I guess that probably means that the National Security Agency knows me just as well. And if they do have that information and combine it with Google and Verizon info, they probably know me better than any one entity. A little disturbing. To think that we used to be concerned about authorities having access to our library borrowing records. The world has changed.
Sherry wrote: "I don't WANT any more recommendations! I have too many books to read as it IS."Yeah, Sherry, I only have about 800 books listed in a spreadsheet as the next book(s) to read. The list grows far faster than progress made in working down the list. I love having the list, but it also slightly depresses me. In the back(?) of my mind, the list feels like a tower of books that is going to collapse on me.
Don't worry, Larry, the NSA will find you under the pile. :)I have an entire library of books, only about a hundred of which I've read. Now that I have a Kindle, it's so lightweight and easy to read that I keep buying instead of lifting volumes off the shelf. Having all those books makes me happy, though. The compulsion continues...
Elf wrote: "Don't worry, Larry, the NSA will find you under the pile. :)I have an entire library of books, only about a hundred of which I've read. Now that I have a Kindle, it's so lightweight and easy to re..."
Oh, Elf, we actually are getting buried under Kindles also. ;-) I've bought five of them so far. My wife and I still have three of these. I read with a new Paperwhite and older one with the keyboard. (One broke ... and my daughter-in-law has the first one that I bought.)
Now we have Kindle junkies. I have two.LOL!
A. wrote: "I need hands-on access to a physical book or at least access to on-line excerpts to choose a book I'm likely to read beyond the first chapters. I can't rely on reviews alone because a writer's styl..."I completely agree. While a cover will lure me in, if I don't find the first paragraph compelling, I'll put it right back down.
Carol wrote: "Now we have Kindle junkies. I have two.LOL!"We resisted for quite a while. Then we bought one each of the plain, keyboard type.
I resisted further, until a few months ago I caved and bought a Kindle Fire. You can get online with it as well, so it feeds two compulsions. :) Reading and surfing. I'd resisted because I thought the backlighting would bother me. It doesn't. You can adjust the background, so now I have the sepia background and slightly enlarged font. Perfect.
Beth wrote: "...While a cover will lure me in, if I don't find the first paragraph compelling, I'll put it right back down."FIRST paragraph alone? Wow. That's a challenge for any author!
Cecily wrote: "Beth wrote: "...While a cover will lure me in, if I don't find the first paragraph compelling, I'll put it right back down."FIRST paragraph alone? Wow. That's a challenge for any author!"
Sometimes all it takes is a good first sentence. There are a surprising number of books with amazing first sentences :-)
When I get something from the library as soon as I get it home, I read the first couple of pp. Sometimes I feel I'll like the book and hold it out to read the whole thing later, and other times, after reading the first pp. I can feel it will be a dog and back to the library it will go unread. Other times I've read something from the library maybe two or three times during a loan period, then know I have to buy it. I go by reviews also, not necessarily the search engines--friends, library magazines, other positive printed reviews...
Beth wrote: "Sometimes all it takes is a good first sentence. There are a surprising number of books with amazing first sentences :-) "
Very true, though in some cases, I can't help wondering if the author (or even the editor/publisher) has ensured the first sentence is captivating, perhaps at the expense of the rest of the text.
A good rule for an author is to make the first sentence so good that the reader wants to read the first paragraph ... the first paragraph so good that the reader wants to read the first page ... the first page so good that the read wants to read the book. But if the text is soon found wanting, not even this rule will save a book ... or keep me reading.
Constant Reader
Books mentioned in this topic
A Tale for the Time Being (other topics)A Rogue in Sheep's Clothing (other topics)
A Rogue in Sheep's Clothing (other topics)
The Black Echo (other topics)
The Sparrow (other topics)
http://www.newrepublic.com/article/11...#