Challenger Deep, by Neal Shusterman → Start Date: August 29, 2015

[Megan]

I'm going to start this tonight.

[Vicki]

I hope you love it, Megan. :o)

[Vicki]

Clementine wrote: "Chapter 78:[spoilers removed]"

Now that you say that, I'd have to agree. Although. I'm not sure why that is. LOL

[Clementine]

Vicki wrote: "Clementine wrote: "Chapter 78:[spoilers removed]"

Now that you say that, I'd have to agree. Although. I'm not sure why that is. LOL"

I'd guess it's because we feel in his shoes and empathy follows? :P LOL

ETA: AH! I just noticed that (view spoiler)[ he stopped using "I" when he talked about his mind being erased by the presence of others. He said that they was just a "we" in the way he felt about the world and then the "you" started. Now that his medications are working and he can see himself distinct from the rest of the world (chapter 94), he's using "I" again. Shusterman indeed is a brilliant author! LOL (hide spoiler)]

[Clementine]

Chapter 83:(view spoiler)[Huuhhh patients with schizophrenia actually have enlarged ventricles, so there's no way his MRI is "clean". (hide spoiler)]

[Clementine]

Chapter 90: (view spoiler)[Yeah, the ship and everything was the hospital and its occupants. I was trying to hard to see things that weren't there. (pun not intended) But seriously I was down for a ship full of symptoms-characters walking around. LOL (hide spoiler)]

@ Vicki: Hal is (view spoiler)[the navigator's very real counterpart in the hospital. (hide spoiler)]

[Christina]

I got this today. I hope it's not to late to join!!

[Clementine]

It's never too late, Christina. ;)

[Vicki]

Clementine wrote: "Vicki wrote: "Clementine wrote: "Chapter 78:[spoilers removed]"

Now that you say that, I'd have to agree. Although. I'm not sure why that is. LOL"

I'd guess it's because we feel in his shoes and ..."

Yes, I noticed that too! It is amazing how talented this author is!

[Vicki]

Clementine wrote: "Chapter 83:[spoilers removed]"

Really? And that part wasn't in his (view spoiler)[head either, right? That was actually his diagnosis. So now it is inaccurate? How does that change this read for you? (hide spoiler)]

[Clementine]

Vicki wrote: "Clementine wrote: "Chapter 83:[spoilers removed]"

Really? And that part wasn't in his [spoilers removed]"

I think Shusterman had a specific metaphor in mind (view spoiler)[with the crewmen losing bits of their brain while cleaning the cannon, but that is later revealed as the "sounds" (it IS quite loud lol) of a MRI scan. (hide spoiler)]

I wouldn't say it has affected my reading other than make me twitch since brain is my hood, but(view spoiler)[from a neuroanatomical point of view, it's inaccurate. You can see here, what it would look like. No health professional with a real diploma would call Caden's MRI "clean". (hide spoiler)] So, maybe I'm a little miffed, LOL.

I have reached chapter 131: (view spoiler)[I wish there was no romance. It was hinted at that they couldn't cure one another and then, they ruin it all by promising to "free each other when the time comes". Argh. (hide spoiler)]

[Clementine]

I'm done! My feels are all over the place. Lol I really enjoyed this one! ^_^

[Trisha, lives on coffee]

I'm through 60 chapters

I can't tell (view spoiler)[ if the ship IS his mind

I'm inclined to think it's a hospital too - but then reality, his parents are JUST talking to him about seeing a therapist..so maybe not... (hide spoiler)]

it's heartbreaking(view spoiler)[ to see how everyone is thinking drugs and pulling away
I'm so sad that he's so alone in all this confusion and fear (hide spoiler)]

[Vicki]

Clementine wrote: "Vicki wrote: "Clementine wrote: "Chapter 83:[spoilers removed]"

Really? And that part wasn't in his [spoilers removed]"

I think Shusterman had a specific metaphor in mind [spoilers removed]

I wo..."

I have had three (view spoiler)[MRI's do I knew immediately what it was. LOL It was pretty apparent, if you are familiar with them. (hide spoiler)]

You know, I agree about the (view spoiler)[romance aspect, because what purpose did it really serve anyway? (hide spoiler)]

[Vicki]

Trisha wrote: "I'm through 60 chapters

I can't tell if the ship IS his mind

I'm inclined to think it's a hospital too - but then reality, his parents are JUST talking to him about seeing a therapist..so maybe ..."

I think it's part of the plight of (view spoiler)[a schizophrenic. Schizophrenia can, of course, be drug-induced, so I see why people go there. But it must be SO difficult for someone with this illness, drug-induced or not. What they "see" is so real to them. I can't even imagine. (hide spoiler)]

[Trisha, lives on coffee]

through 120 chapters

Yes(view spoiler)[ I was thinking the shipmates were people in the hospital and that the hospital was the ship and floors etc.

So....is the captain his illness? because he sure doesn't like him trying to get better or take medicine

The parrot...seems like he wants him to get better maybe? I can't tell (hide spoiler)]

[Clementine]

(view spoiler)[The parrot is the psychiatrist, but the captain... It's really vague whether he's the illness or not because later on in the book there is a flashback and it wouldn't make sense if he were just that. (hide spoiler)]

[Vicki]

I think it will mostly come together for you at the end, but I still think that (in part) it is by design that there is confusion. If he, a schizo, is confused, why not us that are trying to understand him?

[Megan]

I've made it to chapter 31. These chapters are really short.


(view spoiler)[ I didn't actually know that the book was about schizophrenia when I first started to read it. But within the first few chapters I could tell that it was, but I wasn't for sure until the last few chapters that I read. So is the captain and the ship a metaphor or a hallucination? Sometimes I think that it's a hallucination, but then at times it seems more like a maybe it's a metaphor. I definitely feel like it's going to get really emotional the further I get into the book. (hide spoiler)]

[Clementine]

@Megan: (view spoiler)[It's a metaphor. :) Everything will become clearer as you read on. ^_^ (hide spoiler)]

[Clementine]

Vicki wrote: "I think it will mostly come together for you at the end, but I still think that (in part) it is by design that there is confusion. If he, a schizo, is confused, why not us that are trying to unders..."

To me, the meaning of the (view spoiler)[captain felt rather inconsistent throughout the novel, so I decided I was confused but not in a good way. LOL (hide spoiler)]

[Christina]

On chapter 14, and I am so confused. (view spoiler)[To me it seems that he is imagining the ship and the captain like a hallucination. I am wondering if he has schizophrenia, just based on his imagination and the way his father talks to him, like there is something wrong with him and his father is trying to have him separate whats real and whats not real. (hide spoiler)]

[Vicki]

The confusion seems to be par for the course. It'll all come together!

[Megan]

Made it to chapter 91

(view spoiler)[ I thought that the captain and the ship was possibly a doctor and a hospital. I wasn't for sure until I read more though. But is he schizophrenic? I always thought that doctors could pick that up on MRIs and scans of the patient's brain. (hide spoiler)]

Calliope (view spoiler)[ I wonder if she is another patient, or did Caden imagine her? (hide spoiler)]

[Vicki]

Are you any less confused yet?

[Clementine]

@Megan:(view spoiler)[YES! We can see it on a MRI. That part in the book is inaccurate. There is simply no way that MRI scan was clean. (hide spoiler)]

[Vicki]

Clementine is our expert on these things, so if you haven't read some of her spoilers please do so when you're past those points in the book.

@Clementine, you probably picked up more on the captain's (view spoiler)[part being confused in a bad way than I did. I simply thought it was the confused mind of a schizophrenic. But you'd be far more in tune to those things than I am! For example, the MRI. I thought that made no sense but I couldn't have known for sure until you sent me that pic and explained it. I love reading these types of books with you...my own personal expert! LOL (hide spoiler)]

[Vicki]

Megan wrote: "Made it to chapter 91

[spoilers removed]

Calliope [spoilers removed]"

Yes, he is (view spoiler)[schizophrenic. (hide spoiler)]

[Clementine]

Vicki wrote: "Clementine is our expert on these things, so if you haven't read some of her spoilers please do so when you're past those points in the book.

@Clementine, you probably picked up more on the captai..."

My issue with the captain was more personal than related to any inaccuracy that may have subsisted, Vicki. I simply meant that he(view spoiler)[ seemed inconsistent throughout the novel as to what he represented to Caden. For example, at the beginning, he gave Caden assignments that make him prove his worth, just like any therapist would do. Then, he wants him to stop taking his med? It just felt to me like the captain and the parrot were exchanging their roles as helper and harmful individual throughout the whole novel. And that's not okay for various reasons: a) therapists are always depicted as more harmful than useful while our job is difficult and we still wake up every morning to do it. b) mental illness is often characterized as a 'monster/bad guy living in your head' while no one is using this kind of metaphors for cancer or lupus. It's an illness, yet no one addresses it as such when they are using metaphors of 'evil' trying to corrupt you to the 'dark side'. c)At the end of the book, when Caden remembers the homeless schizophrenic that looked like a pirate, it made me flat out uncomfortable. I felt like Shusterman was shoving the mascot of schizophrenia down my throat. We didn't get to see this man as an individual. No. He was Caden's 'evil captain'. (hide spoiler)] I'm most certainly biased in the way I understood it. LOL I'm glad though that you welcome my comments and any picture I may throw at you. ;)

[Vicki]

Of course I welcome all of your comments and insight. You definitely see things that I don't or possibly couldn't because of my lack of insight into the world of mental illness. I find it quite fascinating and everything you've ever shared and explained to me I have thoroughly enjoyed reading and taking in!

[Megan]

Clementine wrote: "@Megan:[spoilers removed]"

(view spoiler)[Okay, yeah I thought that that was wrong because I once did a report on Schizophrenia for school and I remembered reading something about being able to pick that up on a MRI. (hide spoiler)]

[Christina]

I am on chapter 34, (view spoiler)[I feel so bad for Caden, its like he is so lost and doesn't know what to do. (hide spoiler)]

[Vicki]

Christina wrote: "I am on chapter 34, [spoilers removed]"

Yes, that was so, so hard reading about (view spoiler)[his plight and his knowing things weren't real but yet they were to him. (hide spoiler)]

[Megan]

I've finished the book.

Caden (view spoiler)[ It was so heartbreaking reading this book from his POV, because you get to understand and know his emotions through it all. He knew that the hallucinations and voices weren't real, but yet at the same time he wasn't for sure. (hide spoiler)]

(view spoiler)[ I was so sad when I read the chapter about Hal. I can't believe that his mother would even try to sue the hospital. One of the things in this book that I didn't like at all and a hard time reading was when Hal told Caden about his mother moving away to live with her fiancé. That was absolutely devastating to read. I know that Hal had said earlier that his mother lost custody of him because she was unfit, but knowing that she's his mother and the only person that visits him and to read that she is choosing her fiancé over him really upset me. (hide spoiler)]

I'm still a little confused on this, but was the Captain (view spoiler)[Caden's Schizophrenia? (hide spoiler)]

[Clementine]

@Megan: We are ALL confused about that one. ;) LOL

[Christina]

Sorry guys, have been busy with the kids but trying to get in as much reading as possible :)

[Megan]

It's cool! Take your time! We'll be here to discuss it with you as you read it :)

[Christina]

Chapter 97 (view spoiler)[It is still confusing but now starting to make more sense. I couldn't imagine being his parents, seeing him go through that and then having to take him to a mental hospital. I would be a mess. (hide spoiler)]

[Megan]

Christina wrote: "Chapter 97 [spoilers removed]"

(view spoiler)[ I felt really sad for his parents and sister. I can't imagine that's it easy for them, and they probably felt, in a way, useless. Because there wasn't anything that they could do for him. (hide spoiler)]

[Christina]

Just finished the book. (view spoiler)[I feel so bad for Hal, I couldn't imagine being in a hospital and not having anyone. (hide spoiler)] (view spoiler)[I was going to stop reading this book cause I was so confused but I am glad that I didn't. I could.t imagine going through something like that and not knowing what is real and what isn't. (hide spoiler)] (view spoiler)[I am curious that if a person with schizophrenia has hallucinations, do they actually act them out or do they just sit there have it play in their mind? (hide spoiler)]

[Megan]

Christina wrote: "Just finished the book. [spoilers removed][spoilers removed][spoilers removed]"

Hal (view spoiler)[ I felt so sorry for him, too! I couldn't imagine having to go through that and have no one. (hide spoiler)]

[Clementine]

@Christina: Vicki had a similar question and I answered it. It's on the same page of comments, if you're interested. :)

About Hal: (view spoiler)[Didn't you guys feel like Hal's fate was swept under the rug since we never found out what happened to him? Many schizophrenic patients commit suicide, so I would have applauded the author speaking up about that. Unfortunately, he didn't. (hide spoiler)]

[Megan]

Hal (view spoiler)[ It seemed like the author did forget about Hal. I mean Hal seemed to be an important character and with what happened to him I would assume that it would have been a better idea to let the readers know what happened to him. (hide spoiler)]

[Vicki]

I agree regarding Hal and I can completely understand why schizophrenics (view spoiler)[would commit suicide. (hide spoiler)]