The Readers Review: Literature from 1714 to 1910 discussion
This topic is about
A Tale of Two Cities
Dickens Project
>
A Tale of Two Cities, Book II, Chapters XIX - XIV
date
newest »
newest »
#3: graverobbing with Jerry Cruncher#4: The duFarges et al: 'cruelty is always most vicious in the weak'
Feliks wrote: "#3: graverobbing with Jerry Cruncher"
What do you think ti stands for and what does it foreshadow in the novel if it does?
Ties in with the 'recalled to life' theme and characters all reviving their sensibilities, returning to active human emotions, 'picking up broken bonds' and 'fitting them together again', returning to 'old business' (the business of life), etc. Maybe also the English trying to help their neighbors the French through all the turmoil as best they can. I like the choice of 'medical' (Manette); business (Lorry) and law (Carton's employer) characters as a triad of social perspective/themes/characters to array against the coming events.
The dualism between Carton and Darnay doesn't particularly fascinate or interest me. If I didnt say it earlier I will agree now with whoever mentioned that this device is somewhat of a technical cliche and 'prop' even for Dickens to offer us in a story this grand. I'm not that keen on it.
I will freely admit that the duFarges et al--and Miss Pross are my favorite characters. I think Dickens handles the 'mysterious backstory' of Darnay very well, (and when that appears I will say why). Dr. Manette..I have the most feeling for. Poor guy. His plight..very stirring.
But for me, Sidney Carton himself is not particularly a favorite character throughout all this. Neither is his twin. I dunno. Their parallelism is a bit of a strain. Somewhat heavy-handed a metaphor to place at the very center of the story.
p.s. just read some keen insights by Rebecca West on revolutions, will post if I can
#2 -- I think the unfolding past allows us to see that the feet of these characters have been firmly planted on their current paths for much longer than we at first realized. There are motivations and situations at play that are much bigger and deeper than their current circumstances. It emphasizes their commitment to their actions.#3 -- I think the motif of storms is my favorite. All the way back in the chapter "Hundreds of People" the storm, along with the hurrying footsteps, foreshadows the coming revolution. Water imagery is rife in the book, also. I especially like that used in "Echoing Footsteps" as Dickens compares the revolutionaries to "a whirlpool of boiling waters," "a living sea," and a "raging flood." He calls them "the remorseless sea of turbulently swaying shapes, voices of vengeance, and faces hardened in the furnaces of suffering until the touch of pity could make no mark on them" (217).
These few chapters are packed with so many significant events. We get to see Madame Defarge in action (she gets the jump on La Guillotine), the mysterious search of Dr. Manette's old prison cell, and in "Drawn to the Loadstone Rock", we see Darnay being sucked into the vortex of the revolution. I agree that even though duality is a motif throughout the book, the resemblance between Darnay and Carton is a little too convenient. I do like Carton, though!
Cindy wrote, “I think the unfolding past allows us to see that the feet of these characters have been firmly planted on their current paths for much longer than we at first realized.”Good point; it shows how carefully Dickens has constructed the threads of his plot—despite writing in installments. My first sense of the book was that he was jumping from story to story, that he was adding irrelevant detail and spooling things out (the old “paid by the word” idea), but as it goes along, I felt the story tightening and tightening and everything coming together.
I don't know if anyone else has listened to this story versus reading it. I have found it to be one of the more difficult books I have encountered in audio. I'm not sure why -- it seems perhaps because there are threads or scenes that, if one misses them, the plot or theme falls apart. It seemed not to be easy to figure out where one needed to listen again. Anyone else?3. The death and resurrection theme seemed to be pounded home from so many directions. I found myself wondering what were Dickens's thoughts about the American revolution as he wrote this book. Were there clues here? With effort, I could make some up, but I didn't really spot them.
Horrified to discover anyone is listening to an audio version of anything written by Charles Dickens. Its just not right.
Mod
Not necessarily. The audio of Pickwick by Patrick Tull is great. Also many people at the time read Dickens aloud to their families and friends and of course, he did dramatic readings himself. I do think TOTC would be a very challenging one, though.
Oh, Patrick Tull is a wonderful reader! I'll bet he did a terrific job with The Pickwick Papers. There's a Librivox reader named Mil Nicholson who has been working her way through Dickens and is really quite marvelous. Unfortunately she hadn't done ATOTC or I'd have snapped it up. (And she has only just started on Great Expectations.) I just loved her Bleak House, though.
Audio really just isn't appropriate regardless of who is 'doing the reading'. Dickens wrote for the eye, not the ear. He didn't write so that we could vacuum the living room and cook supper at the same time while giving him a 1/10th of our attention. Audio is perhaps suitable for books by Dan Brown, but for Charles Dickens? It's a sin. If there's anywhere we ought to try to stay authentic, it's with books like his. No filters, intermediaries, third-parties, or interpreters need ever be placed between us and his pages.
You are, of course, entitled to your opinion. I think it's obvious that some of us disagree. We will continue to enjoy our Dickens as we choose.
Mod
I appreciate your allegiance to the purity of Dickens' writing, but in terms of what is "authentic", I am positive that many people in Dickens' time and ever since were introduced to him by someone reading out loud, whether a teacher, parent, or now a recording. Many people couldn't read for themselves or purchase the books. Before radio, TV, etc. people would sometimes have one person read aloud while they were doing their sewing or other tasks. And although it may be true that many writers of classics wrote "for the eye", Dickens (and his public) loved his performances where he not only read but enacted scenes.
As far as the amount of attention given, some of us retain better when hearing than with print. Some people read print books while watching TV or with other distractions. I'm not defending that, but the fact that the format is audio doesn't necessarily demean the experience. And of course there are people with visual or reading challenges who might not otherwise experience Dickens at all.
My personal opinion with no particular proof is that Dickens would have loved all forms of entertainment, and that if he were alive today, he would be a great talk-show guest and maybe would be writing for the movies. I often feel his descriptions of places and events are "cinematic".
Robin wrote: "I am positive that many people in Dickens' time and ever since were introduced to him by someone reading out loud,.."You've made several good points there, Robin. I hadn't really thought about it but of course Dickens would have expected many people to hear his books rather than read them.
And he himself enjoyed reading or performing them so much that they must have been written with an aural audience in mind. I bet he would have read his work aloud while he was writing it (though I haven't any evidence for this!)
I don’t do audiobooks myself because I have trouble connecting ear to brain (as some others have trouble connecting eye to brain), but I have noticed since I started wandering Goodreads that for many people, the audiobook serves as a “gateway drug”—the audio version helps them experience some work they’d never get around to, for one reason or another, if they had to sit down and read it. Probably one misses some of the glories of classic novels if one listens, especially while driving or doing other things, but overall one is the gainer. I admire people who don’t let their hectic lives get in the way of enriching their minds with literature.
Mod
http://www.dickensperformer.com
and it was a wonderful evening.
Aside from having unintelligible speakers sometimes, my problem with audio books is that I can't go back to reread something. They would be OK for popular works of minimal complexity.
I know what you mean. I do like to flip back sometimes. Which is less easy with audio or ebooks. I definitely do that if it's something I own, even if I'm doing most of the "reading" via audiobook.
How do you go back to a specific page in an audio book?
Sorry. I was unclear. If I own a physical copy, I'll use it to flip back because, like you, I enjoy having the reference or going back to reread. Even if I'm technically listening to the audiobook (which is my primary form of reading these days), I do love the luxury of sitting with a book in my hands, turning pages. Also, reading with a group makes having a physical copy (or an ebook) almost a necessity, especially if I've gotten ahead or am trying to continue the discussion in a previous thread.
Mod
One of the books mentioned for audio is Moby Dick and I can absolutely see that, as some parts of that book beg to be read aloud. There's one chapter where the sentences have internal rhymes and some that are like Shakespearean soliloquies. It's hard to imagine that Melville didn't read parts out loud as he was writing them. I know some authors do this to get a better sense of the rhythm, see if they've repeated the same word too much, etc.
Most audiobook apps have a feature to go back 30-60 seconds and I make free use of this when listening. I often listen to the same chapters several times, picking up things I may have missed first time thru. I've 'read/listened to' some complex writers this way, such as Henry James. Listening to someone read to you is different than reading yourself, but it has its secret pleasures! Pages don't really matter in an audiobook, unless, as others mention, you're reading as part of a group discussion.
1. Do you think Dickens described for the first time in BritLit the case of dissociated memories?
2. How does the unfolding past help us best to understand the future for the characters of this novel?
3. This novel is particularly known for its symbolism. Can you give us your favorite example?
4. What is the role of the Defarges in the novel? What is their motivation? Do you think it is possible to compare and find some similarities between Mme Defarge and Macbeth's wife? Are they people of the same stock?
I am looking forward to your comments, as usual.