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Discussion of All the Light We Cannot See--Spoilers
Jane,This is a book I avoided reading after I read a stellar review because reading about a blind girl and a young German boy caught up in the war struck me as too depressing. I felt I had had enough of the WWII horrors.
I can't remember what changed my mind - probably a sale on Amazon :-). In any case, I was so glad I changed my mind. This is my favorite book of the last year.
Marie-Laure ,the young blind girl, was not in the least pathetic. She was a strong and capable girl surrounded by people who loved her. Unexpectedly, it was Werner, the German boy, who almost broke my heart. His story showed how talented and good people sometimes cannot control the turbulent events around them. Compromises are made for survival, friends must be left behind.
I understand what you mean about the poetic language, but after I got into the book, I found I really liked it. Thanks for sharing the reactions of your German friend.
Stones from the River by Ursula Hegi also tells the story of the Nazis from the point of view of German people.
I really liked it. Almost baffled by how could I accept all the coincidences, and a bit too long, but nevertheless...It took a few chapters to get into the structure, that gave me a little challenge keeping straight their ages as the story jumped back and forth.
Marie-Laure wasn't pathetic, but my heart really broke for Frederick! I could sense tragedy all over him from the get-go. (In my mind he was "Free-drick," from the first time he appeared. Can't explain that really, I guess that is "Frederick" in German.) Were there no other options for him? I couldn't tell. But surely a boy interested in nothing but birdwatching belonged in a regular school and a regular university. Which emphasized the irony of Werner, who before Hitler could only look forward to the coal mines but was given a chance to study radios - looked a tiny bit more like a meritocracy for just a second, didn't it?
I noted this, from page 291:
"At Madame's suggestion, they lie down in the weeds, and Marie-Laure listens to honeybees mine the flowers and tries to imagine their journeys as Etienne described them: each worker following a rivulet of odor, looking for ultraviolet patterns in the flowers, filling baskets on her hind legs with pollen grains, then navigating, drunk and heavy, all the way home.
"How do they know what parts to play, those little bees?"
How, indeed!
The poetic language is what first caught my attention. Do you think because we knew the outcome of the war ,that we expected something bad to happen to Werner? I think I retrospect I did. Something that surprised me was the big kid (forgot his name), lived through the war.
Forgot to say: Since she had congenital cataracts, I found "The Evolution of Cataract Surgery" interesting. http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/5...
I started this book in April and quit at around page 72 because the characters didn't seem complicated or nuanced. Then toward the end of May when one of the books I was reading dragged I decided to pick it up again. This time I was able to appreciate the very skillful handling of structure and plotting and found it highly enjoyable. I certainly understand why it's so popular. But I do think it's romantic, rather than realistic. One example: Marie-Laure and her father, don't have a cross word to say to each other in their long flight from Paris. She seems not to have a flaw of any kind. Werner oohs and ahs over her "purity." And a cursed diamond? Hmm.
Plot not plausable, but it was enjoyable. Does Werner go back for the house and finds the jewel, if so why didn't it supposedly protect him. I guess it all comes down to belief, he had not heard the story of the jewel, did he? I can't remember. Even Marie-Laure was skeptical. Remember the prisoner who was beat to death at the school, I thought that was her father. There was know clear definitive , he just showed up in the story line. I assumed it was her father. Why else was he thrown in the mix?
Yes, this came up in my other book group as well, Kat. I saw it as fairytale-like, rather than romantic...although I guess that's a question of semantics. But there was an idealized relationship between Marie-Laure and her father. He was so intent on protecting her...first, because of her blindness, and then because of the war. He continues to do this with the lies he sends in his letters from the prison camp. But he also keeps her prisoner inside the house, I think we are supposed to infer that he is fearful that her disability will cause her to be taken by the Gestapo. There are characters who have flaws. Werner is certainly in denial about what the Nazis are doing, even when he sees his good friend brutalized. Vollkheimer too, who I think is mainly a sympathetic character, sentences the Russian prisoner to death by taking his shoes. And he kills parisans almost matter of factly. I think we are supposed to understand the killing machine that war is. My friend Monika described getting an American passport recently. It came with a congratulation that said something like, "Congratulations on receiving your U.S. passport. Now the world is yours." She said, "This would be unheard of in Germany. Since the war, it is considered shameful by most German citizens to be nationalistic or materialistic".
What did you think of the fact that the Jews are hardly mentioned. There is the woman in Frederick's elevator. We know she is taken because Frederick's mother gets her apartment. Also there are cars which are clearly transporting Jews. But this is a story about non-Jewish citizens. and the French occupation.
Carol wrote: "Does Werner go back for the house and finds the jewel, if so why didn't it supposedly protect him. I guess it all comes down to belief, he had not heard the story of the jewel, did he? I can't remember. Even Marie-Laure was skeptical. Remember the prisoner who was beat to death at the school, I thought that was her father. There was know clear definitive , he just showed up in the story line. I assumed it was her father. Why else was he thrown in the mix? "Strange as it may seem, this diamond - so essential to moving the plot along - was the only thing I gave absolutely no thought to. But Carol, Werner goes back to the kennel where Marie left the gem but does not take it. He takes it out of the tiny house and leaves it in the kennel, then puts the key in the tiny house. I see this as his romanticism; he has plans to find Marie-Laure in peacetime and together they can return for the diamond.
The little ironic twist of his death was a masterstroke, wasn't it? He got out being destined to dying in the mine like his father, only to step on a mine and die? Way to go, Doerr!
I keep forgetting to say one thing and another:Who here has read 20,000 Leagues Under the Sea? Would I have been let in on any secrets had I known that book well before reading this one?
Tonya, I haven't read it. Good question.I loved this book. I liked the writing; it was beautiful without being flowery. The relationship between the Marie-Laurel and her father seemed dream-like and idealized, but not syrupy. The Sea of Flame was the fairy-tale thread that wove the story together, but I never thought that any of the rational characters believed in the curse. The Nazi diamond-hunter did, because he was grasping at any straw that would deliver him from his cancer. Doerr did a fantastic job of describing the world of Marie-Laure. I could almost imagine being blind and having my other senses heightened.
It didn’t occur to me that the prisoner who was killed at the school was Marie-Laure’s father. I just thought he was some poor unlucky man who had been at a concentration camp and they used him as an example. What made you think that, Carol? I probably missed something.
In the end, I loved how Jutte’s son Max had the same kind of curiosity that Werner did. It was almost like he had a second chance.
I was expecting her father to die in camp, I think during the war, many prisoner's families recieved false letters, hoping to expose the resistance and who were involved, especially in France.
Carol wrote: "I was expecting her father to die in camp, I think during the war, many prisoner's families recieved false letters, hoping to expose the resistance and who were involved, especially in France."Of course her father may in fact have died in camp, since they never found out what became of him. That was a very realistic detail, I thought.
I never thought the prisoner they killed at the school was Marie-Laure's father. I think he was there to show the horror of their training and to give Frederick an opportunity to take a stand. The novel is realistic in that detail as well--those who take a stand pay a heavy, heavy price. No wonder so few do it!
Just finished. This may be the most beautiful book I've read in a very long time.
Tonya wrote: "I keep forgetting to say one thing and another:Who here has read 20,000 Leagues Under the Sea? Would I have been let in on any secrets had I known that book well before reading this one?"
I haven't read it, but the excerpts made me think of doing so for the first time--what wonderful prose!
Based on the way Doerr interwove the other characters, I agree that the prisoner was Marie-Laure's father.
Jane, thank you for posting The Rumpus link. I see that one thing that I did not care for, but Doerr did purposefully, was the tying things together in a neat package. At least that's how it seemed to this reader. One knows that the great uncle with a radio antenna on the tallest chimney of the tallest building in a seacoast town, and the young radio expert for the Nazis have got to come together at the climax.Didn't Marie-Laure throw something into the water? What was that?
I loved the language of the book. The story did grab me early on.
Tonya,I haven't read Twenty Thousand Leagues either, but I wonder what I have been missing. Marie-Laure was absolutely enthralled with it. I loved this description of her enjoying the book in braille:
"Her fingers walk the tightropes of sentences; in her imagination, she walks the decks of the speedy two-funneled frigate called the Abraham Lincoln. She watches New York City recede; the forts of New Jersey salute her departure with cannons; channel markers bob in the swells. A lightship with twin beacons glides past as America recedes; ahead wait the great glittering prairies of the Atlantic."
Doerr, Anthony (2014-05-06). All the Light We Cannot See: A Novel (Kindle Locations 632-635). Scribner. Kindle Edition.
That's what I thought, Ann, but I see above that others may be still wondering about it.
My take is that Werner had left the jewel in the grotto for Marie-Laure but that she never went back for it, but left it to the sea. I remember her imagining throwing it in the water, but not doing it. I may have missed something, though.
Yes, the diamond was in the tiny house, and yes Marie-Laure left it in the water of the kennel (also sometimes called 'grotto') just before she left town. Then as she was saying good-bye to Werner she gave him the key to the kennel. We know that he returned to the kennel, removed the stone and replaced it with the key because when Jutta brings the tiny house to Marie-Laure the key is in it. (What I thought was cute about this was that the puzzle-box-tiny-house was probably not difficult for an older, sighted person to open. Werner had clues that von Rumpel wanted to kill her for more than just the radio and he went right to it.) And don't I recall a description of moss growing on it, snails walking over it, barnacles attaching to it?Now about Marie-Laure's father being the tortured prisoner: this never occurred to me until it was mentioned here, but I agree with Portia: since there are so many tidy bows throughout this book it must have been. He left for Paris in December, 1940, and was arrested within just a few days. He spent some days in France and then was transferred to Germany on a train. "The Prisoner" is chapter 70 (pg. 227) early in the section 'January 1941.' While I didn't have any trouble gathering this timeline, the guarantee that it was him will have to be searched for by somebody with a searchable Kindle. In "The Prisoner" it states that the prisoner is wearing mismatched shoes, so I expect that at some point prior to him leaving something about that would have been mentioned.
I have not read the Doerr interview yet, so I don't know if he talked about the lack of mothers in this book? Seriously, Marie-Laure doesn't have a mother and never seems to think about it; Werner and Jutta, orphans, of course don't have a mother. Even in Saint-Malo you might think there had never been a mother; her grandfather's room is preserved, not her grandparent's room. Frederick had a mother - maybe mother's were bad luck...
My take is, since the legend says the jewel brings eternal life to the person who possesses but death to the ones who are dear to him or her, Marie-Laure returned it to the sea.
Ok, so, I missed it. Where is the jewel?
The jewel is gathering barnacles in the grotto.
Sherry wrote: "The jewel is gathering barnacles in the grotto."I liked this part. It made it seem real to me. It brought to mind an elderly Rose in the movie Titanic when she threw her jewel in the sea. When I came to the end, I wanted to believe it really happened. I have this experience less and less the older I get.
I loved this story. I didn't really want it to end, while at the same time, I couldn't stop reading. This, too, doesn't happen as much as it used to.
Werner put the key into the house so he must have seen the jewel. He didn't take it, because he had heard the story about the curse, and he had strong feelings for Marie -Laure. If he had taken it she would have died, so he left it among the barnacles and sea creatures. He gave her a life. That was my take on it.
Tonya, a very good point about the mothers! The novel certainly does tie up loose ends neatly, but I think for Marie-Laure's father to end up at Werner's school would be the cake-taking coincidence of the thing. But if the author's point is to assert everything is part of a grand pattern or design, it may be part of Doerr's own grand pattern.
Although I very much enjoyed reading it, I would never have given this novel a prize. The most "literary" thing about it, I think, is the way the structure of the novel echoes (or is echoed by) the many "pattern" motifs: puzzles, spirals, and so forth. It seems to pose the question: Do things move freely, randomly, or does everything move according to a design, one which we see reflected in stars, whelks, radio waves, etc.? A question our species has been asking for centuries if not millenia, but always worth asking again. Do others think the author ventures to answer it, or only to explore it?
Kat wrote: "Do others think the author ventures to answer it, or only to explore it? "I think he only ventures to explore it. There isn't any way to really answer it, is there?
There is at least one mother, Frederick has one. And there are several mother figures--Madam Menac, and the wonderful woman in the orphanage. Having so may lost mothers might be a way of saying how fractured the society was. All those children in the orphanage, and all those boys being trained to be heartless killers at the school. So many ways to use people as objects and weapons.
You can't have a good story without some coincidence.In its use of coincidence, ALL THE LIGHT reminds me of 19th century novels, for example the ones by Thomas Hardy that many of us read this past year.
The main coincidence was the radio program. However, I didn't feel that Doerr tried to tie everything else up, and it never occurred to me that the prisoner who was killed was Maire-Laure's father. But maybe I just missed it.
Frederick's mother could have won a worst mother of the year award. How could she leave her son in a place like that?
From what I understand, the school was a stepping stone for boys, similar to West Point, Annapolis. Hazing is ( or was) a major part of military academies, and fraternities. If you survived. You were in.
Sherry wrote: "Kat wrote: "Do others think the author ventures to answer it, or only to explore it? "I think he only ventures to explore it. There isn't any way to really answer it, is there?
There is at least..."
Well, many people do assert that there is indeed a pattern, usually as an article of faith. I was trying to ask whether Doerr falls into this camp. Or how about his characters? Marie-Laure bats this around a bit. Does anyone feel she reaches a conclusion?
A related question, do others feel this is the main theme of the novel?
Being Marie-Laire was blind , maybe it is blind faith. We go through life planning on certain things happening with a certain amount of blind faith. So in my opinion it could be the main theme.
I think when a totalitarian government takes over, the sadists find their natural element and rise to the top. The Nazi death camps and medical experiments on healthy humans are two of the most horrendous examples.On a lower level, sadists were also in charge of Werner's school. I think it was more than just hazing. The treatment of the boys in that school, particularly gentle Frederick, was sickening.
I am reminded of A Tale for the Time Being, which we discussed on CR recently. One of the characters was forced into being a kamikaze pilot, where the instructor brutalized the boys, particularly anyone perceived as weak.
Maybe the theme is that too often we are prisoners of the times and the circumstances where we live in. Werner was certainly a sympathetic character, even though he was fighting for the wrong side. I wonder how we would have behaved in his situation.
Ann wrote: "You can't have a good story without some coincidence.In its use of coincidence, ALL THE LIGHT reminds me of 19th century novels, for example the ones by Thomas Hardy that many of us read this pas..."
I think the use of coincidence also shows the interconnectedness of people on both sides of war.
I think Frederick's mom loved her son, but definitely placed more importance in her husband's status in the Nazi party. She probably assumed her son would one day feel the same way.
I'm not so sure about the love. It was obvious that her son had been physically abused, but his mother did nothing about it and had him return to school. I guess she did take care of him after he returned from the school brain damaged, but what else could she do at that point? She cared primarily about her husband's rise in the party and her concomitant social status.I read in an interview that Frederik reminded Doerr of himself and also one of his sons, who are dreamers - no place for them in wartime.
Good observation that "the coincidence also shows the interconnectedness of people on both sides of war."
I think the writer wanted to show that there were people suffering and trapped in their roles on both sides of the war.
I forgot this was on our list, and read it some months ago. A lot of it has drained away through my sievebox of a brain. I do remember enjoying it far more than I thought I would. And I remember that it started working for me when I stopped trying to make it the real world and considered it kind of a fairy tale.
I read this book awhile ago, perhaps as much as a year ago. I remember enjoying it, but being disappointed (after all the build up to it) that there was so little interaction between the two main characters. I thought it was a good book, but am a little surprised at all the raves.
As far as themes go: I highlighted this section as I read, and it still seems relevant to me as a major theme. Starting on page 223:"Do you ever wish," whispers Werner, "that you didn't have to go back?"
"Father needs me to be at Schulpforta. Mother too. It doesn't matter what I want."
"Of course it matters. I want to be an engineer. And you want to study birds. Be like that American painter in the swamps. Why else do any of this if not to become who we want to be?"
A stillness in the room. Out there in the trees beyond Frederick's window hangs an alien light.
"You're problem, Werner," says Frederick, "is that you still believe you own your life."
When Werner wakes, it's well past dawn. His head aches and his eyeballs feel heavy. Frederick is already dressed, wearing trousers, an ironed shirt, and a necktie, kneeling against the window with his nose against the glass. "Gray wagtail." He points. Werner looks past him into the naked lindens.
"Doesn't look like much, does he?" murmurs Frederick. "Hardly a couple of ounces of feathers and bones. But that bird can fly to Africa and back. Powered by bugs and worms and desire."
-------
The emphasis is, of course, all mine. It bears pointing out too, that when Werner found the Birds of America at Etienne's house, the plate he tore out and mailed to Frederick was... Gray Wagtail, male and female.
Lots of very good comments. Ruth, I agree with you about taking it as a fairy tale or fable type of work. Tonya, yes, I think that passage zeroes in on the way the war took away the lives of many people who lived, not only those who died; that's certainly one of Doerr's major concerns. The way Etienne changed as a result of WWI underscores this. But in a sense--until he died--the war also helped Werner become who he was, because it allowed him to use and develop his talents. And the passage demonstrates that, as well, by showing how Werner's POV was different from Frederick's. He believed the war was going to help him be who he was, but ultimately, that was taken away from him by that same war.
My dad was born in 1913. I remember him describing how he built a crystal radio when he was a young boy and how exciting it was to be able to pull in far away stations. I thought of this as I read of Werner's talent with his radio, and his delight in the broadcasts from the Fremchman, who encouraged experiments. It became his ticket out a dreary future in the mines. In 1952, some years after the war ended, my dad was stationed abroad in Wiesbaden. The devastation of WW II was everywhere, and although I was only 10, it made a big impression. Much of this novel resonated with my memories of the post war conditions I saw travelling with my parents during our three years in Europe.
I found Doerr"s descriptions very visual and true. Werner and Jutta were so well depicted as was the generous Frau Elena and The Children's House.
I liked the short alternating chapters, a structure that held my interest. The descriptions of the school Werner attended and the extreme rigidities of his life there were well done.
It was harder to imagine Marie-Laure's life in Paris. Her father was so caring and did so much for her - especially the models of her neighborhood which allowed her to go out somewhat independently.
It was even more difficult to accept the coincidence of Marie-Laure and Werner meeting in Saint-Malo. Nonetheless, it did give some excitement and edge to the climax of the story.
I enjoyed reading this novel. It certainly held my attention. The writing was superb. The characters were credible, and it was so well imagined.
I would argue that Werner and Marie-Laure meeting in St. Malo was not a coincidence. If they had met there on the first page we wouldn't have thought so--two strangers to each other meet in wartime, it must have happened to millions. Doerr just chose to work backward from that non-coincidental meeting to tell the stories of those two people.
Kat wrote: "I would argue that Werner and Marie-Laure meeting in St. Malo was not a coincidence. If they had met there on the first page we wouldn't have thought so--two strangers to each other meet in wartime..."Good point about Doerr working backwards.
Tonya, great post. You related Frederick's relationship with his mother better than I tried to do in a previous post.
Ann wrote: "I think when a totalitarian government takes over, the sadists find their natural element and rise to the top. The Nazi death camps and medical experiments on healthy humans are two of the most hor..."Ann, I agree with what you said about sadists rising to the top. I thought briefly of ISIS and all the incidents of racial cleansing in the last decade or so.
Your comment that Doerr thought of Frederick as himself was very sad. He felt that he and his son, who are dreamers, have no place in wartime. How many brilliant dreamers has the world murdered?
Tonya, really found myself agreeing with your post. It offered insight into Frederick.
I also liked the setup of the book and found myself enchanted with all the wonderful characters. This has become one of my favorite books.
Karen wrote: "Ann wrote: "You can't have a good story without some coincidence.In its use of coincidence, ALL THE LIGHT reminds me of 19th century novels, for example the ones by Thomas Hardy that many of us r..."
I agree. She really did want that apartment.
I'm late to this discussion --and it is certainly an excellent one. I read this book about a year ago so some details are definitely lost with time. I do recall thinking that it was Marie Laure's father that died in the school (I don't recall why I thought so).This was one of my favorite books of last year. Initially I was slightly put off by the alternating sections, but once I got into the rhythm of it, I enjoyed it. I found that the comparisons between Werner and Marie Laure helped to highlight some of the differences of the cultures and the sides in the war. The discussion has brought back so much of the novel--thanks to all for the refresher.
The discussion of Werner and Friedrich at the school brought back to me just how uncomfortable I felt while reading those pages. On the other hand, I recall how intrigued I was at the descriptions of Marie Laure taking her walks in Paris and counting trees (or was it fence posts or some other landmark) to find her way home. There is so much humanity in this novel.
Sue wrote: "I recall how intrigued I was at the descriptions of Marie Laure taking her walks in Paris and counting trees (or was it fence posts or some other landmark) to find her way home."Storm drains!
Kat wrote: "Sue wrote: "I recall how intrigued I was at the descriptions of Marie Laure taking her walks in Paris and counting trees (or was it fence posts or some other landmark) to find her way home."Storm..."
Thanks--I never would have remembered without re-reading the book. Haven't had time right now.
I echo someone who pointed out how wonderful this conversation is. I just realized that what Marie Laure counts...the storm drains...is a way of thinking about what is underneath in a real physical sense, and also in a more metaphoric way. The mines, what is beneath the earth, the basement where Werner and Volkheimer are trapped, and thus saved. The jewel which is inside the house which is inside the kennel (cave). Oh, and I just realized--another "beneath"---20,000 Leagues Under the Sea. I'm dazzled by the intricacy of the patterns and puzzles and symbols. One thing I found really interesting (a thing that my other group found annoying) was that the novel begins in 1944, as the war is coming to an end. Doerr says that he did that because he felt that by writing chronologically, he would disappoint readers who know what is coming. He wants to create the suspense in a different way. By creating two very different characters, in very different circumstances, we wonder about their connection and about how the bombing of Saint Malo will affect them. I'm curious about the major themes of the book. Tonya, you seem to be indicating that one is the power of the state to take away the importance of the individual life. Werner still believes his life and dreams matter. Frederick is certain his life and dreams don't, that the Nazi state has destroyed that. I think there's also an almost idealized sense of the human spirit rising above the evils of war and brutality. The effect of war on ordinary citizens is absolutely an important part of the story. I loved the way it galvanized the women of St. Malo. The chapter in which they are plotting how they will undermine the Nazi occupation is perhaps the only truly funny chapter in the book. It was such a relief in the midst of so much tension.
Constant Reader
Books mentioned in this topic
The Moor's Account (other topics)Twenty Thousand Leagues Under the Sea (other topics)
A Tale for the Time Being (other topics)
Stones from the River (other topics)
Authors mentioned in this topic
Laila Lalami (other topics)Ursula Hegi (other topics)
Doerr created these short chapters intentionally. For those who are interested, he speaks about it in this interview:
http://therumpus.net/2014/05/the-rump...
For me, the most moving part of our long discussion about the book last night was the reaction of Monika, who sat next to me and spoke after I gave a few reactions. Monika grew up in Germany and still visits for long stretches of time. Her family lives there. She said, “These are my stories. I heard them around the table. This is my life. I loved the book. It captured the horror and what war did to people.” She then went on to tell us about her father who exaggerated his vision problems so that he could stay on the family farm. He intentionally failed eye test after eye test and found a doctor who was willing to say his vision was too poor for him to fight. Near the end of the war, he was called up anyway. He fought, was shot in the leg, spent time in the hospital, and deserted. For two months, as the war ended, he hid in an attic above the barn. His father knew, but his mother and siblings didn’t. Prisoners of war worked on the farm and they knew and were kind to him. “Everyone my age in Germany has stories about the war, about their parents during the war.”
I felt humbled by Monika’s experience of the book…I was experiencing it as a literary event for the first hundred pages. She felt the book in her gut. All the way through. How did you experience it?