Georgette Heyer Fans discussion
note: This topic has been closed to new comments.
Archived
>
Royal Escape from the Topic - for off topic chit chat
The half stars would mean we'd all have to go back and re-read and re-rate all of our books!
What would be the descriptions of various half-star ratings?I know, most people ignore the stated descriptions, but...
Organizations such as the USAF periodically have to replace existing rating systems because of rating inflation. Of course when the mark of being a good leader means you have good followers, the bias is to over-rate subordinates - but it's easy to fall into easy ratings.
If I decide to rate book A with four stars, and then read book B which is even better, I either have to give book B four stars, or not be ready for book C which is the best thing I ever read!
Karlyne wrote: "The half stars would mean we'd all have to go back and re-read and re-rate all of our books!"...which would probably break Goodreads! I've put half stars on my review when I thought it was necessary. For me there is a big difference between 3* (liked but if a new-to-me author probably won't seek out anymore of his/her work ) & 3.5* (enjoyable enough that I'll look out for more of the writer's works.)
Howard wrote: "What would be the descriptions of various half-star ratings?I know, most people ignore the stated descriptions, but...
."
We crossed over! But I think you have it right there, Howard. :)
I've always wished that Goodreads had a ten-star system, which I guess would tally out the same as the half-stars, but I'd like it better!
Howard, when my husband and I were in the Navy, if we did not get all "A"s & top 1%, we could not get promoted. Which was crazy & unrealistic, but was the reality of the fitness report system.
An Elizabeth Goudge quote is quote of the day today!
Carol ♔ Typo Queen! ♔ wrote: "An Elizabeth Goudge quote is quote of the day today!"Thank you! I lover her, and hadn't noticed. I'm going to copy it here for the benefit of those who see your comment too late:
"“In times of storm and tempest, of indecision and desolation, a book already known and loved makes better reading than something new and untried ... nothing is so warming and companionable.”"
Lovely! Thank you for sharing it, HJ.
HJ wrote: " Carol ♔ Typo Queen! ♔ wrote: "An Elizabeth Goudge quote is quote of the day today!"Thank you! I lover her, and hadn't noticed. I'm going to copy it here for the benefit of those who see your com..."
Yes, thanks for copying. A good quote for those of us who are rereaders - would be nice if it meant GR was able to introduce the reread feature! :)
Totally agree, I've been doing the challenge they put up every year but if you change the date you read a book it comes off a previous years total.
I know. Rereading a book is a different experience, should count every time.
Kim wrote: "I know. Rereading a book is a different experience, should count every time."Hear, hear!
Kim wrote: "I know. Rereading a book is a different experience, should count every time."For sure with GH as an example, books that were 2-3.5* for me when younger are 5* now.
Carol ♔ Typo Queen! ♔ wrote: "Kim wrote: "I know. Rereading a book is a different experience, should count every time."For sure with GH as an example, books that were 2-3.5* for me when younger are 5* now."
Things work the other way for me. I keep finding books even better than my earlier top rated book. In order to have the new book even better, it gets the top rating and everything else moves down.
Same thing happens when physicians ask me for a pain rating. If I can imagine worse pain, then obviously what I have isn't a 10. If I can imagine layers of worse pain, then it can't be a 9. So I end up with very low numbers.
Howard wrote: " Same thing happens when physicians ask me for a pain rating. If I can imagine worse pain, then obviously what I have isn't a 10. If I can imagine layers of worse pain, then it can't be a 9. So I end up with very low numbers. ..."I noticed people doing this all the time when I was in hospital recently -- and we have a scale of 1-3 only, which made it even more difficult!
Howard wrote: "Same thing happens when physicians ask me for a pain rating. If I can imagine worse pain, then obviously what I have isn't a 10. If I can imagine layers of worse pain, then it can't be a 9. So I end up with very low numbers. "I was asked that recently and had no idea how to judge! 1 to 10? I do not think I could provide an answer as I do not regularly rate my pain. I think 1 to 3 would be easier - 1 is discomfort, 2 is "bad enough to come visit the doctor," and 3 is "oh my word I am done for!"
Critterbee wrote: "Howard wrote: "Same thing happens when physicians ask me for a pain rating. If I can imagine worse pain, then obviously what I have isn't a 10. If I can imagine layers of worse pain, then it can't ..."Oh, I like that idea - and your scale! During my mom's last illness this question on every visit really frustrated her - she was a very strong, independent woman and saw discussing her pain as weakness, especially going on a rating scale...especially when they had little happy to sad face pictograms next to each number on the scale. Inevitably after they'd leave the room she'd make a very snarky and funny remark about what kind of face she'd put on that scale, and I'd have to get my face straightened out before they came back in...
HJ wrote: " Carol ♔ Typo Queen! ♔ wrote: "An Elizabeth Goudge quote is quote of the day today!"Thank you! I lover her, and hadn't noticed. I'm going to copy it here for the benefit of those who see your com..."
Oh, she's still one of my top 5 favorite authors, and I think this is from The Scent of Water, where Jane Austen is picked up and read. But it might be from the Torminster series when Jocelyn is opening the book store?
Carol ♔ Typo Queen! ♔ wrote: "An Elizabeth Goudge quote is quote of the day today!"Carol, have you ever thought about starting a Goodreads Elizabeth Goudge book club...
I've thought all sorts of things! :-D!I was thinking about starting a mid 20th century authors group either here or at Leafmarks.
But I have found this group, a new one on GR, Its in very early stages, but could be worth supporting
https://www.goodreads.com/group/show/...
Ah, the thought processes of the avid reader...
Carol ♔ Typo Queen! ♔ wrote: "I've thought all sorts of things! :-D!I was thinking about starting a mid 20th century authors group either here or at Leafmarks.
But I have found this group, a new one on GR, Its in very early ..."
I'd prefer a group with books from the '20s thru the '60s...
Just thought I would show you what my work looks like. The above is what I came into. The unsorted books + there were another 3 small boxes out of the shot
These books need pricing/ room in the shop. Through the glass window(on shelves) are books at our regular price. I didn't take any pictures of the shop part of the shop. There aren't any more books at "the shed" but there are boxes upstairs left to our charity by a collector years ago, so if I ever catch up I have to get to those.
They have just found a wonderful woman to do the handicraft books, a younger volunteer is doing collectable comics (we rarely get any of those) & I have just shed the magazines. We give the magazines away normally.
Looks a shambles but I love it!
Oh my! It looks like bibliophile's paradise - but how do you resist just sitting right down on the floor and reading? So much temptation...
Susan in NC wrote: "Oh my! It looks like bibliophile's paradise - but how do you resist just sitting right down on the floor and reading? So much temptation..."At the moment it's just ploughing through, trying to catch up! The coffee table style art books and what New Zealanders call "Kiwiana" - (stuff that makes us think of our recent past.) that can distract me.
Ok, carrying on from the discussion in the first post thread.Karlyne; That's exactly what I wanted to know! I don't understand our American determination that every kid has to go away to college and incur huge amounts of debt in order to get a good job.
It's only been recently that New Zealanders felt like that - & some are moving away from that idea as there are shortages of qualified workers in many fields. Plumbing is the obvious one.
Also, being a small country some universities only offer some courses - dentistry in Dunedin only for example.
& my daughter could have done Graphic Design in Hamilton, (where her brother went)but the best courses were 3 of the providers in Auckland plus one in Wellington. Since we have more family in Auckland that is where she went.
Carol ♔ Type, Oh Queen! ♔ wrote: "Ok, carrying on from the discussion in the first post thread.Karlyne; That's exactly what I wanted to know! I don't understand our American determination that every kid has to go away to college ..."
It makes sense to me that specific courses might not be available locally. I'm from a sparsely populated area so the colleges are fairly general and there aren't, for instance, medical or law schools near by. But I just worry about the kids who have no idea what they want to do with their degrees (assuming they eventually get them) and end up with tons of debt because they've gone to expensive colleges far away without a real game plan. It just seems like a high-pressured way to start adulthood.
I agree! We still have that here, of course, (people who go to uni not really knowing what they want to do and just sort of floating through, changing degrees mid-way, etc) but I don't think it has the same impact on their post-uni life, debt wise, as it sounds like it does in the States. It still has some impact, of course, as they do eventually have to pay back their fees but it's done in manageable chunks and without crippling interest.
Also, I agree that the whole geography thing plays into it hugely. It makes sense how the smaller population causes issues in NZ about where you have to go. It's hard to see what could really be done about that.In Australia, I think the culture is definitely impacted by the fact that we're such a large country in land mass but so (relatively) sparsely populated. And most people are congregated in big cities. It means that the majority of people will have several unis to choose from in their home city. And no real reason to go elsewhere - after all, everywhere else is so far away! :)
I think another big factor is that we don't have anywhere near the ranking system that the US has for unis. Certainly not in the public mind anyway. So while some unis are better than others for particular courses, etc, we don't have anything like an Ivy League. So that also takes away the incentive to go elsewhere to go to a 'better' uni. When I was finishing school and we were all deciding where to apply, I heard discussion amongst my friends about which of the unis in Adelaide was better for which course but almost nothing about interstate unis. They just didn't register with most people. (Med is, once again, a bit of an outlier because it's a case of going wherever you can get in!)
Having said that, since finishing uni and now moving to Canberra, I have met people who did leave home because they wanted to go to a better uni - this is probably more of a factor for people looking at courses like law or engineering or who live in a smaller city that only has one uni. And, without actually knowing the figures, I would definitely say it's the minority.
In the UK, it's only relatively recently that we've had to pay significant tuition fees (and incur student debts to do so). In my day only certain vocational course had to be paid for, and all first degrees were "free' (of course, actually paid for by taxes paid by our parents and ultimately by us). We also had maintenance grants, which covered our living costs during term (if we were frugal), although these were means-tested i.e. were reduced if our parents were well-off. Most of us got jobs in the vacations to cover living costs then (it was easier to get such jobs then).I much prefer that system, since I think it makes it easier for children of all classes and backgrounds to go to university. Almost invariably, we chose universities based on which we believed were best for our courses (we had to compete for places usually based on exam results), and did not go to local universities (if they existed).
My own experience is that this was a very good thing. Almost always we were in halls of residence for our first year, so weren't thrown completely into the deep end. But we learnt to live away from home, with other people, and to look after ourselves and be responsible for our own timetables; we had to make sure we were out of bed in time for lectures, didn't miss tutorials, and handed work in on time. This sounds trivial but lots of people had no experience of it, having been looked after by their parents who had kept track of when homework was due etc..
I loved it! Suddenly social life didn't depend on getting a reluctant parent to give you a lift and come and collect you later. There were tens if not hundreds of different societies, and the fun of going for tea/coffee between lectures, usually to someone's room because it was cheaper. And so many interesting people! I had a wonderful time, even though I had very little money.
I would definitely not have had this experience if I had gone to university while living at home.
I have American friends who also extol the going away to uni experience and I wonder to what extent it's uni in general, and that phase of life in particular, that's such a wonderful time. Because I also remember my uni years as being great ones even though I stayed at home. No one I knew at uni had parents who would keep track of assignments, etc and there were lots of uni social groups and that sort of thing. Between classes we would hang out at on-campus cafes (and do things like all share a bowl of hot chips because we were cheap, haha). Plus enough people were living out of home in share houses so we could gather there in the evenings and on weekends. Anyone who didn't have a car just used the bus.
What I particularly liked about staying at home was the opportunity to develop an adult relationship with my parents (and now that I'm a parent myself, I can't imagine sending my daughter away at 17!) and the chance to continue to enjoy and strengthen my existing friendships. I would have been very sad to have to leave my friends to go to uni. (Although of course I also made new friends, one of whom is now an honorary 'aunt' to my baby.)
All in all, I think the good news is that you can have a great uni experience regardless of whether you go away to uni or stay at home :)
What do you all think? How much is it just the phase of life and how much is it the particular experiences?
I think it's both; I went three hours away to school and it was a wonderful experience for me. I had to work in an on campus job and take out loans to do it, but I was the first in my blue-collar family to graduate college so it was transformative for me; I met my husband (first real boyfriend), friends from all over, had a social life beyond movies and dinners out with my group of fun and brainy high school girlfriends! My beloved twin sister stayed at home to take community college courses so I could see she didn't get the same experiences - she came and visited a lot of weekends.Now, with a son who is a rising junior at the same school (even though we live in NC, he ended up at our uni in Illinois - long story, even longer drive...), but anyway, after a grueling search and application process, which has become ridiculous in this country especially among the helicopter parents, he got in everywhere he applied, but then it came down to who offered the best financial aid package and where he felt most comfortable. It all worked out, but I'm glad he's an only child - I wouldn't want to go through it all again!
Yeah, one of the reasons my family moved back to Australia was that my parents didn't want to have to put four kids through the US college system!Your situation sounds like the perfect case study, haha. One twin moved away, one didn't :) Did your sister wish she'd moved away to school with you?
I am on my third kid, and his professors want him to go to Yale or Harvard or Columbia or NYU. He is doing first 2 years @ Berkeley City College, getting all his requirements out of way. Husband is disabled vet, in California they pay tuition for kids in public system. His profs think his portfolio will get him full ride, we shall see. First daughter went to USC, rowing scholarship, academic scholarship helped...we took out loan first year, she worked, also. Then, after graduation, she did Teach for America & got a Masters in Education, then went to Loyola Marymount & got public interest scholarship. Still had to get loans. She clerked with Ninth Circuit, was hired by big law firm. Now is head of team of litigators for Apple. Will be paying loans for years. Second daughter went to UCLA, rowed, also. Tuition covered, but room & board not. She works in politics, not making big $$ but doing important things. Loan payments for years, also. Such greed, $$ from educational loans. Breaking our kids & us.
I do understand the idea behind user pays - tuition was free at our universities until some time in the 80s. Why should the taxpayer fund me if I decide I want to do a BA in medieval literature?& they are tougher chasing the ones who skip overseas without paying the loans. Originally they just went after the ones who went to Aussie, now going further afield. I do have a lot of sympathy for one person I know of whose degree was so poorly taught as to be useless to her.
& in another case a young relative was doing costume design. The tutor left & the tech couldn't get a replacement. So through no fault of her own this young relative has no degree & still has a student debt.
Melanie wrote: "Yeah, one of the reasons my family moved back to Australia was that my parents didn't want to have to put four kids through the US college system!Your situation sounds like the perfect case study..."
I don't think so - she started studying nursing at a community college and realized she didn't want to pursue that career, so she was grateful she didn't incur additional debt by going away to school.
Kim wrote: "I am on my third kid, and his professors want him to go to Yale or Harvard or Columbia or NYU. He is doing first 2 years @ Berkeley City College, getting all his requirements out of way. Husband is..."Wow, you read about such cases but you're the first parent I've "met" living the dream! All the kids doing great things, did everything the right way with academic and athletic scholarships and now successful by any measure, but those loans will STILL be a burden for years - it really is insane. We all need to move to Australia!
Carol ♔ Type, Oh Queen! ♔ wrote: "I do understand the idea behind user pays - tuition was free at our universities until some time in the 80s. Why should the taxpayer fund me if I decide I want to do a BA in medieval literature?&..."
Oh that is terrible! My husband and I agree students should pay something - as you say, why should taxpayers subsidize degrees in Underwater Basket Weaving - but back in our day, part-time jobs on campus and summer and holiday jobs could put you through with manageable loans. I didn't have a problem with that, I felt invested in my academic success and like I truly earned my degree; but we can't be handicapping graduates and their families for decades to come!
& my kids are both managing to pay off their loans. My son only has a small loan but is not working in the fields he did diplomas in.Some degrees are now probably on realistic for those brilliant enough to get scholarships or with wealthy parents though.
My daughter's team for rowing all got recruited for top tier schools, but when she graduated, there were no jobs...just after the economic downturn. These kids went to Ivy leagues & UCLA, UC Berkeley, etc. At one point, out of the 9 members on her team, she was the only one with a job & she only had that because she worked for Gap/Banana Republic/Old Navy all through college. She moved to NYC and started to work in politics, worked her way up. She was below the poverty line for quite a while, and we were sending her money we could ill afford to keep her going. Now she is doing a lot better, but so many kids were working at Starbucks with engineering degrees during that period...it took some of them years to find something which could actually support them. & a lot of them still live at home.
Kim wrote: "My daughter's team for rowing all got recruited for top tier schools, but when she graduated, there were no jobs...just after the economic downturn. These kids went to Ivy leagues & UCLA, UC Berkel..."Ooooh, Kim you will start me on my hobby horse.
Too many institutions in NZ were offering too many qualifications in more glamorous sounding fields like Graphic Design & Tourism & then when the kids paid the fees, did the work & then found there were no jobs for the young & inexperienced. Chloe did do an internship but the firm couldn't afford to take her on as an employee & went out of business a few months after her graduation. & this was someone who was top of her school class, around 6th in the diploma & 2nd in her degree course. Chloe had some tough times - she did end up twice on the dole & once had to come home to us. (she was promised a job that didn't exist as a postie/post woman) that time on the dole she was lucky as her case officer went the extra mile & got her a job in a real estate office. she saved up enough to go to Auckland & after working as a telemarketer she did get work as a graphic designer & is now a Social Media Manager. She does have plans to go in quite a different direction now. & no regrets about the hard times or her background in competitive sport. She feels it has helped her take the knocks.
Even when I was at uni myself, I used to think how amazing it was that there were so many degrees that don't really equip you to get much of a job at the end. I did a humanities degree and I think that's true of most humanities degrees - you really need to do some other sort of training to be employable.Even in Australia where we weren't nearly as badly hit by the GFC, the only job I could get after I finished my degree was as an administrative intern who went to TAFE (my state's vocational tertiary education) one day a week to get a Cert 3 in business admin. It was a bit of a joke when I already had a bachelor degree. I used to literally read novels all day in the tutorial.
I ended up moving to the capital so I could get a job for the government - a lot of government jobs only require a degree of some kind and then they do the training on the job. So degrees are useful for that purpose. And my older brother, who never worked in his degree field, was able to go on and do an intensive post-grad certificate in a totally unrelated area and has been working in that area ever since. So again his degree helped him just because he needed a degree of some sort.
I think in America there's so much focus on getting into a top tier school and getting a good education that it must be heart breaking for graduates to then discover that they can't get a job at the end of it :(
When my daughter's law school class graduated, less than 10% of the class had jobs lined up, and many of them would never find jobs in the legal profession. They all spent 100s of thousand of dollars on their educations, and most would not get jobs that would even remotely help them get out of debt. And this was a good law school, not even one of the "for profit ones from which no one got a job in the legal profession. To me, "for profit" and education really should not be in the same sentence.
I struggle to even conceive of having hundreds of thousands of dollars of debt for any reason other than a mortgage! :(
Kim, please don’t dismiss the Ivies from consideration without talking to them about what financial options are available. I know Princeton at least has needs-blind admissions, and most of them have endowments large enough to minimize student debt for their undergrads. Many of the Ivies have set a goal of allowing their students to graduate without debt; it is a real focus for them, and they dedicate a significant chunk of their endowments to promoting that aim. It’s probably not (yet) guaranteed in every case, but it’s definitely worth exploring what they can do for your boy. He would probably have to hold a campus job—I cleaned toilets at Princeton for two of my four years—but you’d be surprised how many of the students do some kind of work there as undergrads, in the cafeterias, the dorms, and the departments, so it wouldn’t be that much of a competitive disadvantage. Good luck wherever he ends up!
That is the hope, Abigail. He is doing degrees in Art, has a certificate in public art as well, and Sociology. His professors feel his art portfolio will lead to a grant or scholarship, but his academic work is also strong, thus they want him where he can thrive. He has taken every art history course available, and really loves that aspect...he is a great reader of history. He has designed and run the crews for several murals that his college has been commissioned to put on the walls of schools, businesses, and institutions in the Bay Area. His mentor was mentored by a student of Diego Rivera, and he has worked closely with her for some time. His professor has a mural in the SF International terminal arrivals area, it is stunning.
I hope such a talented young man finds the right environment in which to grow and thrive! If I find myself in the SFO International terminal, I'll definitely look for the mural.
This topic has been frozen by the moderator. No new comments can be posted.
Georgette Heyer Fans
Books mentioned in this topic
The Peppermint Mocha Murder (other topics)The Tea Girl of Hummingbird Lane (other topics)
The Tea Girl of Hummingbird Lane (other topics)
The Toll-Gate (other topics)
The Toll-Gate (other topics)
More...
Authors mentioned in this topic
Molly Thynne (other topics)Georgette Heyer (other topics)
George Bellairs (other topics)
Amos Bronson Alcott (other topics)
Amos Bronson Alcott (other topics)
More...
I would have loved half stars when I started here, but now there is so much broken (eg the Top Lists) half promised but not implemented (eg rereads) or would life easier for group moderators or librarians (eg the ability to move comments) & the fact that the design changes have left Goodreads unreadable for so many... well I'd rather all these things were fixed before they started bringing in half stars & so on. I'm still having to use an add on to read Goodreads & I don't have to do that anywhere else on the internet.