Kevin.

[Casey]

Saying this makes me feel like a horrible person, but I loved the character of Kevin. I HATED what he did, but as a person, I liked him. He was extremely intelligent and never did anything without thinking it out first. I feel like he really was a good person at heart. He just had to break.

[Hayley]

I know what you mean, I did admire his intelligence and the way he understood everything around him. I think in the book there is a sense of remorse however he still wasn't a good character.

[Joanne]

I admired his intelligence too, but I've always wondered about the nature/nurture issue - especially in the wake of the Newtown massacre. I've been reading any book on Columbine and other school shootings that I can get my hands on.

Are psychopaths really born evil? Was Kevin - or Eric Harris, Seung-Hui Cho, Adam Lanza - born with an intrinsic bent towards evil? Or lacking in the mental faculty to tell the difference between right and wrong?

In this book's case, can a baby/toddler be born with an intrinsic hatred towards his mom and be able to manipulate other people's perceptions at such a young age?

Scary thoughts...

[Casey]

Joanne wrote: "I admired his intelligence too, but I've always wondered about the nature/nurture issue - especially in the wake of the Newtown massacre. I've been reading any book on Columbine and other school sh..."

I agree. My grandmother and I had a really long debate about the novel, and it was just weird to think about all of that. I was able to put some sort of explanation to all of the different ways he treated his mom except for when as a baby he manipulated them. I couldn't think of how he was possibly able to do that.

[Kristin]

I think his likeability is a testament to how well his character was drawn. He is a true psychopath and a big part of that is the intelligence and charm they possess. Most people feel drawn to them, and it's hard to see through their manipulations until it's too late, as in the case of Kevin's father. I will disagree with your assessment that he was a good person at heart. In order to be a good person in any way, you need empathy, which Kevin completely lacked. Of course at the end, there was a hint he had developed some. But did he really, or did his mother just fall for his last and most brilliant act of manipulation? I am not sure one way or the other. But he is a fantastic character.

[Casey]

Kristin wrote: "I think his likeability is a testament to how well his character was drawn. He is a true psychopath and a big part of that is the intelligence and charm they possess. Most people feel drawn to them..."

I like to think that he did love his mother after all, and that he was showing that at the end and when he defended her in the documentary. I'm not sure how true that is, I just like to think that's the answer.

[Joanne]

Actually I think leaving his mother alive was the cruelest act of all. His final "f*#@ you" to his mom.

I say this because I read in some psychology book that a lot of school shooters kill their parents not because they hate them, but because they don't want them to live with the consequences of what their son had done.

In Kevin's case, he killed his father and sister and could easily have killed his mom. But no, he left her to suffer the fallout and consequences of his actions alone.

Chilling.

And yes, @Casey, it's really scary to think psychopaths are born and can manipulate people as early as infants. Of course, this is just a novel. But I wonder if there is any real life evidence that this could be possible. Any psychologists here?!

[Joanne]

Off on a tangent, did anyone here watch the movie? How do you think it compared with the book?

I thought it was quite well done, especially the boy who plays Kevin. You could see how he expressed his hatred and contempt of his mom, and yet in a split second, act like he's all goodness and light for his dad.

Tilda Swinton also portrayed the frustration, the daily confusion and deadpan acceptance of someone totrtured every day of the mother character really well.

The movie actually made me go back and read the book again.

[Casey]

Joanne wrote: "Off on a tangent, did anyone here watch the movie? How do you think it compared with the book?

I thought it was quite well done, especially the boy who plays Kevin. You could see how he expressed ..."

The movie was quite amazing, and I agree with you about the actors. Ezra Miller (Kevin) did great; he plays a very upbeat character in The Perks of Being a Wallflower, the complete opposite of Kevin obviously, and he's very believable as both, so he's an amazing actor.
However, the part of the book and movie that is so extremely peculiar is when Kevin gets sick for 2 weeks.

[Joanne]

Casey wrote: "Joanne wrote: "Off on a tangent, did anyone here watch the movie? How do you think it compared with the book?

I thought it was quite well done, especially the boy who plays Kevin. You could see ho..."

Why peculiar?

(PS> I didn't know he was in Wallflower! I want to watch that coz of Emma Watson. Now I definitely have to watch it!)

[Hannah]

Casey wrote: "Joanne wrote: "Off on a tangent, did anyone here watch the movie? How do you think it compared with the book?

I thought it was quite well done, especially the boy who plays Kevin. You could see ho..."

I totally agree with you about the part where he was sick, he was just a completely different person. And I couldn't tell if that was his true character, or just sort of mental break for his brain where he didn't have to think of all his hate and he just switched off and let his mum do what she wanted. I could feel his mum's frustration, the whole time I couldn't stop thinking - who is he?

[Joanne]

Casey & Hannah:

But then she reads Robin Hood to him during his seeming neediness and he gets fascinated with bows and arrows. So even during his "mental break", he's still picking up on possible ways to vent his hatred and channel his inner Id. I actually read that part as a manipulation of his mom. But that's just my interpretation.

[Casey]

Joanne wrote: "Casey & Hannah:

But then she reads Robin Hood to him during his seeming neediness and he gets fascinated with bows and arrows. So even during his "mental break", he's still picking up on possible..."

You see, I actually saw that as his true character coming out, thus the reason I believe he is good at heart. And the bow and arrow thing...I think that was just really good on the writer's part because at the age of 10, I doubt he thought, okay I'm going to be interesting in this weapon so I can kill people when I'm 15.

[Karen]

Joanne wrote: "Actually I think leaving his mother alive was the cruelest act of all. His final "f*#@ you" to his mom.

I say this because I read in some psychology book that a lot of school shooters kill their p..."

I totaly agree with you. Letting his mom live with the fallout was as you say "the cruelest act of all". And I never saw where he showed any remorse for what he had done.

[Beth]

Karen wrote: "Joanne wrote: "Actually I think leaving his mother alive was the cruelest act of all. His final "f*#@ you" to his mom.

I say this because I read in some psychology book that a lot of school shoote..."

I totally agree. I see Kevin as an evil psychopath to the end. That's what was so chilling about this book. As empathetic readers, we want to find some redeeming quality in this boy, but there is none. That's how psychopaths work. He isn't wired to love, or forgive, or even change. He is unbalanced and incurable. Any moment in which we saw a glimmer of human emotion from him was calculated manipulation, in my interpretation, including his performance in the documentary. His most basic instinct, from birth, was to cause as much pain and sorrow in weak people as he could. Everything he did was for that purpose.

[Anna]

I think the part where he got sick was the trickiest move Kevin played on Eva - he showed that he has a vulnerable side kind of to tear his mom's walls down. She thought that she can't possibly be a good mother up until this happened and suddenly her son is responding to her efforts and, in the end, used these efforts (her reading Robin Hood to him) against her in the massacre and leaving her alive - kind of like "you tried, mom, but f*#@ you nevertheless"

[Lynsey]

Casey wrote: "Saying this makes me feel like a horrible person, but I loved the character of Kevin. I HATED what he did, but as a person, I liked him. He was extremely intelligent and never did anything without ..."

I kept getting really frustrated with Eva. I was thinking, damn, if he were MY child, I'd be able to find ways to connect with him for sure. Her "efforts" in this were superficial and inappropriate. That's part of what makes this such a tragic story, and really brings it back to the question of whose "fault" this really was. Kevin seemed like a kid with great potential.

[Sanna]

Geez, the book is creepy! It stayed in my mind several days after finishing it. I was really frustrated with both parents, father for being so blind (though the book is written from mother's point of view and so being biased) and mother so....I don't even have a word for it. But then again, I figured since I don't have kids, who am I to judge how difficult being a parent could possibly be. I don't believe there is a way to pinpoint one reason how some people end up being psychopaths. Maybe Kevin acted on Eva's confusion and made "the best" of it to mess her head up altogether? And then again, it's hard to judge others than Eva since the book is written from her point of view and through the mess and confusion she was in, all the time.