A Song of Ice & Fire Fans discussion
Crackpottery - This is where we just throw it all out there.
So tempted to say something rude about Gilly and Sam's horn...Something rude...or something entertaining? You be the judge.
So if that horn does have significance and Sam sold it for passage to Oldtown, does that mean it might be hanging around Braavos somewhere? Is that where he jumped on the boat to Oldtown?
And if it IS hanging around Braavos, that might mean a certain young lady might stumble across it before returning to Westeros...
I hope she does find it, that would be a very good way to go, she may even use it you avenge the death of her parents and brother. That seems very Arya to me..
does anyone else wonder where Varys actually came from?(i don't remember GRRM ever really mentioning it?) I was thinking he could be an escaped unsullied..
Hannah wrote: "does anyone else wonder where Varys actually came from?(i don't remember GRRM ever really mentioning it?) I was thinking he could be an escaped unsullied.."Varys actually has talked about his past. Whether certain parts of his past are false is a different question, but I don't think he lied about the majority of it.
He said he was born a slave in Lys (on the show he tells Tyrion that he was born in Myr if I remember correctly; alas the changes Amber loves so much), then sold to a troupe of traveling mummers, then sold to a guy in Pentos - supposedly the 'sorcerer' - who performed the untoward surgery on Varys and then left him to die on the streets of Pentos.
Varys eventually became the most notorious thief in Pentos and also befriended Illyrio, with whom he started the successful business of selling stolen goods, and later they started selling the more profitable commodity of information (secrets).
The duo became so rich and infamous that Mad King Aerys summoned Varys to be his Master of Whisperers, a position he's held ever since.
ahh yeah, a lot avout Varys has completely slipped my mind to be honest
LOL@ Jon.Lys, Myr, whats the difference eh?
Oh right, ones a port city and the other is a freakin' Island, how could that possibly matter?!
I dunno, go ask Balon Greyjoy.
Satinder wrote: "Seed wrote: "Yeah, Sam HAD a horn, but for the life of me I can't remember what he did with it."So tempted to say something rude about Gilly and Sam's horn...
But seriously, I think he sold it ..."
LOL after I posted that comment...I kinda thought hmmmm that doesn't sound right;) heehee!
Jon wrote: "Hannah wrote: "does anyone else wonder where Varys actually came from?(i don't remember GRRM ever really mentioning it?) I was thinking he could be an escaped unsullied.."Varys actually has talke..."
Jon, you remember everything! Wow
Whenever I hear the phrase 'perfumed seneschal' or 'stinky steward' I think of Varys
Back to horns and whatnot....Mance Rayder had the supposed Horn of Joramun, also called the Horn of Winter. It is supposed to free Giants from there sleep and supposedly crash down The Wall if blown.
Melissandre burned that horn in the pyre that they killed Mance Rayder (view spoiler) in. Tormund Giantsbayne claims that it was a fake though and Mance never even found the real horn of Winter.
The horn of Euron Greyjoy is a Dragon Horn. It's a sorcerers horn to control dragons and most were made in old Valyria. Euron Greyjoy claims to have a sailed to Old Valyria and found it there. Also, the horn is identified by Moquorro and it's name is Dragonbinder.
The Horn that Samwell has is thought to be nothing special, just a warhorn, in fact it is broken and cannot be blown. But some Fans like to think it is the real horn of Joramun (whatever that guy has a stupid name, noone can even spell it) It is actually one of the few posessions Samwell still has besides clothes.
I don't think the Horn that Euron has is anything to do with Horn of Winter, but I think the horn Sam has might. The Horn of Winter is a one in a million item, where as more Dragon Horns could probably be found in the ruins of Old Valyria, just no one ever goes there to find them.
Some crackpot theories to add (sorry if they've been mentioned already, I've just skimmed through this thread) 1. Ned Stark is alive and possibly a white walker and the "Ned stark" that died was actually a faceless man.
^^Ok seriously, WTF???
2. Brandon+Lyanna=Jon Snow.
^^Great, EVEN MORE INCEST.
3.Daenerys will actually come across the narrow sea and conquer Westeros, therefore being Queen of The Seven Kingdoms.
^^IT'S BEEN 5 BOOKS, SHE STILL ISN'T IN WESTEROS, AIN'T GONNA HAPPEN. Meereen shows how terrible she is at ruling. She can't control her dragons. Great, even MORE TITLES, Seven Hells, how many titles does Daenerys have now?
4. Hotpie or Hodor is Azor Ahai or TPTWP.
^^LOL
5. The valanqar will be Theon Greyjoy.
^^ It involves strangling, after what he has been through, I don't think he will be able to strangle Cersei even though I want him to.
6. Robb Stark is still alive.
^^WTF???
7. There is still a Stark heir besides Arya, Sansa, Jon, Bran or Rickon.
^^ Yes we all hoped that Jeyne would be pregnant with a child, but on Game of Thrones at the Red Wedding Talisa died- therefore no baby. I know that you will say that the show can be different from the books, but I think that it's GRRM's way of proving that theory wrong.
8.Varys, Illyrio and Littlefinger are mermaids.
^^ *starts singing 'Under the Sea'*
My own theories:1)Jon is either Aerys son or Ned and Ashara/Lemore's son.
2)If Jon is Aerys' then so could be Tyrion and with Dany the three dragons.
3)If Jon is Ned's son, Lyanna's is Aeagon, who Ned gave to Ashara/Lemore to bring up away from Westeros to be safe.
Another crackpot theory that I have made up: Rhaegar Targaryen is still alive ...In the ruins of Valyria.
One of the Starks are going to warg into a dragon.
Cat is going to wake up and Ned is in the shower (showing my age there)
OK here goes: A question first.Why did Mance Rayder go to Winterfell during King Roberts visit? Why would he risk his life just to be a minstrel? And then later Bran visits the tombs and notices some 'swords' are missing. Is Mance searching for Lightbringer?....Not thinking that it might be in Lyanna's tomb. Does he share this with Melisandre, hence she 'saves' him and defies Stannis's explicit order. She glamors him to look like rattleshirt and then sends him to Winterfell again...WHY? Melisandre is not known for her compassion, she couldn't care less about Arya(thinking it's the real girl)Stark. So what are Mance and Mel up too?
2: Tywin murders Joffrey with the help of Shae. It is Tywin at the Purple wedding who reminds Joffrey to eat that pie...When Joffrey chokes...Tywin does...nothing. While pandemonium breaks out as Joffrey chokes, he simply sits there and the only thing he does is to tell everyone that Joffrey is dead. Why murder King Joffrey? The boy is mad! Tywin knows what happens to mad kings and their FAMILIES! The Targaryens were decimated, he will not let the Lannister name follow the same route. It would be easier for Tywin to have Tommen as 'king' so he can rule while Tommen 'reigns.' And in his arrogance he underestimates the Tyrells. Shae helps Sansa dress for the wedding including 'that' hair net...Where does Tyrion find Shae? In Tywins bed. GRRM is clever in setting the scene, Tyrion upends his goblet, Lady Olena also fiddles with that hair net and Littlefinger admits to Sansa that he did it. When has Littlefinger ever told the truth? What better way to impress Sansa than admit he murdered her tormentor.
Who killed King Joffrey>>I say Tywin...because everyone else is simply too obvious.
That Cercei and Jamie are Targs--the incest between them hints at it...and Cersei compares her and Jaime to the Targaryens. Their father is not Tywin, but the mad King. Tywin knows this and perhaps assumes that Joffrey has inherited the mad kings insanity.
Jaime will help save King's Landing from the Wights and Others due to his knowledge of the secret hiding places where wildfire was hidden so the mad king could 'make them all burn.'...I also believe there will be a face off between the reformed Jaime and Bran(who will become very powerful)...And in a touch of irony Jaime will die a hero but everyone will think him evil for what he did to Bran etc.
Jamie kills Cersei(she is already going mad)Perhaps when the Other's come she is ready to see everyone die, while Jaime tries to save the people.
Another question...If the Stark children can warg and have other gifts then why didn't Ned, Brandon, Benjen, Lyanna?
Ok nuff said....Some questions and a few tinfoily theories....lol;)
About 2.Lady Olenna Tyrell and Lord Petyr Baelish killed him. You could probably search on the internet the reasoning behind it, but there is evidence in the books, the hairnet which Lady Olenna 'straightens' and the dwarves who were hired by Lord Baelish to entertain guests while also pissing Tyrion off, the amethysts were from Asshai, one of them is missing when Sansa takes the hairnet off. There are probably a few more points but I can't be bothered to list them down. And of course maybe you are suggesting the Tywin theory purely because this is a crackpot theory thread.
Yasmin wrote: "About 2.Lady Olenna Tyrell and Lord Petyr Baelish killed him. You could probably search on the internet the reasoning behind it, but there is evidence in the books, the hairnet which Lady Olenna '..."
I just don't think Lady Olenna would trust Littlefinger to clean her toilet let alone plot to kill a king and a Lannister king at that!...It just seems to obvious...I found Tywin's behaviour at the Purple Wedding to be....odd. But it is crackpottery, hence I put it here lol;).
When it comes to Mance Rayder, I don't think I'll get any answers until the next book(whenever that is gonna be?!)But I think there is more to him than meets the eye.
But I love reading all the different theories...It's fun!
My new drug induce theory is that Petyr Baelish is in league with the Others. Lets go back to day one. Jon Arryn, with Stannis, Renly and I assume Petyr, know of Cersei's secret and plan to tempt Robert with Margaery Tyrell then convince Robert to replace Cersei. Why would Littlefinger mess that up? His position was secure if the plan succeeded, his position did not change that much for what happened afterwards. All his action have been to weaken & destroy everyone around him.
Baelish working with Lysa Arryn murdered Jon Arryn, he then framed the Lannisters as the culprits-Setting the stage for Starks VS Lannisters.....I think with him it is a case of while everyone is looking at what the right hand is doing, no-one notices the left hand.Unlike Varys I think Baelish wants the throne for himself even if it is to be King of the ashes.
I agree Rebecca - Little Finger has done everything in his own interests and it is pretty much revealed that he is the Master Game Player in the Game of Thrones once he has married and dispatched Lysa, really he only 'saved' Sansa because he has her as a pawn to marry the Sickly Roberts Heir. My latest crackpot theory is that WOW will be released this year *gets hauled away by the crackpot police for being too ridiculous*
N wrote: "I agree Rebecca - Little Finger has done everything in his own interests and it is pretty much revealed that he is the Master Game Player in the Game of Thrones once he has married and dispatched L..."The common thing I hear is that Littlefinger 'loves' Catelyn Stark...that is total BS....Littlefinger loves Littlefinger. The man connived to the point that Cat became a widow and her son Bran a cripple, Robb was murdered(he would've heard what Tywin was up too--did he warn Robb or Cat? Hell no!)....Baelish uses people, that's not love, it IS the manipulation or a twisted vision of self love.
I just pray to God that the bittersweet ending is not Baelish sitting on a throne covered in ash!
As for the release of TWOW.....I hope its not that cracked pot! Wouldn't it be great! YAY! *Does a happy dance* LOL
He definitely didn't 'love Cat' - he got Lysa pregnant when they were kids. I'm hoping WOW for Christmas *fa la la la laaaa, lah lah lah lahhhhhhhh*
A good one I hear at work last week was that the new high septon (high sparrow) is actually... Howland Reed. Apparently they have many of the same characteristics -small, northern. If true would just be either great or stupid.
soooo is everyone unmoved by the fact that lady catelyn is a zombie...I mean come on
Ife wrote: "soooo is everyone unmoved by the fact that lady catelyn is a zombie...I mean come on"No. I threw the book across the room when I first read it and vowed not to read anymore! Two friends talked me around and I am glad to have continued. What happens to Cat is horrible and I do wish she had simply died instead of becoming this vindictive, enraged entity that feels no pity and shows no mercy.
But we don't know what is in the next two books...hopefully she'll die, finally.
N wrote: "He definitely didn't 'love Cat' - he got Lysa pregnant when they were kids. I'm hoping WOW for Christmas *fa la la la laaaa, lah lah lah lahhhhhhhh*"
Littlefinger was drunk at that time. Lysa let him bed her because he was in love with her. He mistook Lysa for Cat and I think he even called out Cat's name.
Ife wrote: "soooo is everyone unmoved by the fact that lady catelyn is a zombie...I mean come on"I personally still question why she had to return at the first place. My stance against her has been softened after rereading ACoK, but I still don't like her as a zombie. I mean, she practically killed the awesome Beric Dondarrion and dissolved the Brotherhood without Banners. And she's killing Pod and Brienne as well (still a cliffhanger, I know). It seems that she did not really discriminate the ones she killed.
Stephen wrote: "My new drug induce theory is that Petyr Baelish is in league with the Others. Lets go back to day one. Jon Arryn, with Stannis, Renly and I assume Petyr, know of Cersei's secret and plan to tempt R..."Can the Others even conspire at the first place? Do they have a leader?
Wouldn't conspiring with the Others also destroy Littlefinger and his would-be kingdom? Or are you speculating the Others would just stop their conquest after they reach the borders between the North and the Riverlands? I assume Littlefinger wants Riverlands just to get revenge on Hoster Tully.
Rebecca wrote: "Ife wrote: "soooo is everyone unmoved by the fact that lady catelyn is a zombie...I mean come on"No. I threw the book across the room when I first read it and vowed not to read anymore! Two frien..."
I'm not sure she is a zombie. My own view is that they just weren't thorough enough when cutting her throat and she was rescued from the river they dumped her in. Such a traumatic experience accounts for how bad she must look now.
I'm wondering if John Snow will turn out to be Rhaegar's and Lyanna's child and not Ned's. He was seemingly killed off in the books but so was Lady Stark. Either that or he is Robert Baratheon and Lyanna's child. He has the Baratheon black hair.
JON SNOW LIVES!!!!!I hope he is Rhaegar's and Lyanna's child, as I love this theory and been a supporter of it since the very first time I heard it, especially since it makes a lot of sense.
My other crackpot notion is that Missandei is a descendant of Nettle from GRRM's novella The Princess & the Queen. She is then a possible dragonrider.
Rebecca wrote: "JON SNOW LIVES!!!!!I hope he is Rhaegar's and Lyanna's child, as I love this theory and been a supporter of it since the very first time I heard it, especially since it makes a lot of sense."
He doesn't have the white Targaryan and Rhaegar's son is alive. On the other hand I can see Ned claiming him as his to protect him from murder at the hands of Robert. Descendants of house Baratheon have black hair and Ned might have claimed him to protect the honour of his sister. There is definitely more to Jon Snow than appears. If he has in fact died as the book appears to show and that's it, i will be very disappointed.
Stephen wrote: "My other crackpot notion is that Missandei is a descendant of Nettle from GRRM's novella The Princess & the Queen. She is then a possible dragonrider."Possible but maybe not something GRRM will make explicit in the book. While writing the Harry Potter books, JK Rowling knew Dumbledore was gay but never explicitly said so in the books.
Well GRRM Laid hints that Brienne is descendant from Dunk of Dunk & Egg fame but you would have to know that GRRM had mentioned introducing such a character & the fact that Brienne's shield is painted in the manner of Dunk's shield. And Brienne is very tall like dunk. But a person had to be sharp to spot the connection. Since Nettles And Adam were the only likeable characters, and Adam died , it would be nice if Nettle still had some influence in the coming battle.
Lyndsey-ellen wrote: "Rebecca wrote: "JON SNOW LIVES!!!!!I hope he is Rhaegar's and Lyanna's child, as I love this theory and been a supporter of it since the very first time I heard it, especially since it makes a lot..."
I highly doubt that GRRM would kill off Jon Snow now without letting us know who his real parents are. And even if he does kill him, he will tell us later on, but let us know nonetheless
Maria wrote: "Lyndsey-ellen wrote: "Rebecca wrote: "JON SNOW LIVES!!!!!I hope he is Rhaegar's and Lyanna's child, as I love this theory and been a supporter of it since the very first time I heard it, especiall..."
Well he has killed him off in the books......or at least it looks like he has. Also looked liked they had killed of Lady Catlyn as well but we know what happens to her. I don't think he is really dead.
Silvana wrote: "Ife wrote: "soooo is everyone unmoved by the fact that lady catelyn is a zombie...I mean come on"I personally still question why she had to return at the first place. My stance against her has be..."
It's ridiculous to suggest that Cat killed Dondarrion. She was very dead at the time, and he willfully passed the Kiss of Life onto her, because he had grown weary of his 'un-life'.
Lyndsey-ellen wrote: "Rebecca wrote: "Ife wrote: "soooo is everyone unmoved by the fact that lady catelyn is a zombie...I mean come on"No. I threw the book across the room when I first read it and vowed not to read an..."
Nope. She was completely dead. Dondarrion resurrected her by passing on his Kiss of Life. But that's not to say she's a zombie... zombies are mindless. Lady Stoneheart (and others like her) is something much more than any zombie.
I'd probably be something if someone murdered my son and family in front of me.
The Jon Snow that was stabbed was actually Mance and Mance at Winterfell is Jon Snow. Melissandre used the same magic she used previously on Mance and rattleshirt so Jon could go to Winterfell while appearing to remain at the wall and not being seen as a deserter.
Oh that could work! I'll buy that:-)
James wrote: "The Jon Snow that was stabbed was actually Mance and Mance at Winterfell is Jon Snow. Melissandre used the same magic she used previously on Mance and rattleshirt so Jon could go to Winterfell whil..."I don't think that's possible. For that to be true, the last couple of Jon's POV chapters in ADWD would not make sense.
James wrote: "The Jon Snow that was stabbed was actually Mance and Mance at Winterfell is Jon Snow. Melissandre used the same magic she used previously on Mance and rattleshirt so Jon could go to Winterfell whil..."Everything is possible with GRRM....but wouldn't Ghost know the difference?...But then again Jon locked him up in his room...Hmmmm!
Also another theory doing the rounds that Stannis wrote that 'pink letter'....Stannis thinks Mance is dead and yet his name is mentioned in that pink letter? Hnmmmmm....Any idea's?
James wrote: "The Jon Snow that was stabbed was actually Mance and Mance at Winterfell is Jon Snow. Melissandre used the same magic she used previously on Mance and rattleshirt so Jon could go to Winterfell whil..."Although she previously saved Mance so i can't see her sacrificing him now. I think it could work with someone else in his place maybe.
When GRRM wants to confuse or set a wrong trail he usually uses someone elses POV (fake deaths of Bran and Rickon for example) Jon was stabbed repeatedly but I'm sure it was Jon - not so sure he is dead though. ....
Yes he was stabbed but someone here had the idea that maybe it wasn't him, like when we thought Mance Ryder had been killed.
No way that Jon is really dead. His character has too much potential.
The general rule here seems to be: Characters aren't dead unless you have seen and preferably burnt their corpse.Anyway, I am interested in knowing what Jaqen/the Alchemist is up to in the Citadel. Any theories?
Also there must be something in Old Valyria, I think Dany needs to go there, because of Quaithe's prophecy, all that "to reach the light, you must pass beneath the shadow" stuff.
So tempted to say something rude about Gilly and Sam's horn...
But seriously, I think he sold it to pay for passage on the boat to Oldtown?