Goodreads Librarians Group discussion
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Conundrum
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Book & Author Page Issues
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I am slowly being driven mad by Goodreads...Help!
I can't help you with all problems, but I can explain that one single edition with buy links to all booksellers is not possible. Because those booksellers don't use all the ISBN for searching e-books. So we create editions with their numbers (One with the ASIN for the Kindle-edition, one with the number that B&N uses and so on.) and we combine all those editions so all reviews are shown together.
Once a book has been added to goodreads database, there is no way to delete it. They say that some people might still own the first uploaded version, so they just won't delete it. What you can do is the following:1. go to the book's main page
2. click on "combine" beside "other editions" (right hand side near the top)
3. click on "combine editions" (again top right hand side)
You should get a list with your books. Just click at the ones you want to combine and save.
Also, you can add a comment in the no-longer-valid edition pointing out that this edition never existed in the first place and put in a link to the correct page.
If you can't do that on your own, you will need to contact a librarian. I hope this helps a little.
Thank you, Renske! One patch of cloud removed from this miasma.I don't mind having multiple 'versions' where the only difference is the identifier used for the eBook format, as long as they are all the same book text, and none of them are more than 20% downloadable. We can add that to the desired outcomes noted above.
Is this request something there is not likely going to be a "librarian" who can resolve? Am I doomed to the stonewall at goodreads support?
"stranger in a strange land"
For me, the Amazon buy links on the Kindle edition go to these pages:Amazon.co.uk
http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B0...
Amazon.com
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B009...
What do you get?
Katharina wrote: "Once a book has been added to goodreads database, there is no way to delete it. They say that some people might still own the first uploaded version, so they just won't delete it. What you can do i..."Adding your suggestion in to Renske's reply, would we be making progress to say I would then need to have at least THREE 'versions,' one for the defunct version, and one each for Kindle/.mobi and B&N etc/ePub? Again, that's fine, as long as I can change the ISBN of that defunct 'version' and no one can ever again access it in any way shape or form.
Dead book can't have that ISBN. Dead book DOESN'T have that ISBN. That was an error. The information is incorrect.
Banjomike wrote: "For me, the Amazon buy links on the Kindle edition go to these pages:Amazon.co.uk
http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B0......"
The B&N link goes to B&N and the page says "Sorry, we could not find what you were looking for."
Likewise the 'indie bound' link in the online stores dropdown goes to that site and says title cannot be found. And since I have never even heard of 'indie bound' I don't know why it should be in the dropdown.
The "more" link in that dropdown goes to an Amazon page that tries to collect vendor info but returns nada, a complete blank. Ditto the 'book links' dropdown 'more.'
Does being logged in or not make a difference?
If you're getting something different, then things are even more screwed up that I thought ;-o
Have you tried editing the book information and change the format (Hardcover/Paperback for eBook) instead of the ISBN (which is unchangeable)? There doesn't seem to be a printed version in the database yet.
As far as I can see, the preview edition was only linked to the 'live' ISBN here on Goodreads. Nowhere else (that I can find). In that case, if the PTB agree, we could treat the presence of the ISBN on the preview as a mistake, remove it, and use it to define the 'proper' edition and cover.I stress "if the PTB agree".
Katharina wrote: "Have you tried editing the book information and change the format (Hardcover/Paperback for eBook) instead of the ISBN (which is unchangeable)? There doesn't seem to be a printed version in the database yet. "Changing the format, or anything else without good reason, is also not allowed.
Banjomike wrote: "As far as I can see, the preview edition was only linked to the 'live' ISBN here on Goodreads. Nowhere else (that I can find). In that case, if the PTB agree, we could treat the presence of the I..."Banjomike wrote: "Katharina wrote: "Have you tried editing the book information and change the format (Hardcover/Paperback for eBook) instead of the ISBN (which is unchangeable)? There doesn't seem to be a printed v..."
The plot thickens. What is PTB?
"stranger in a strange land"
_Anonym wrote: "What is PTB?"PTB = Powers That Be.
The Staff. The Ancient Ones. The Old Gods. Cthulhu is a pansy compared to some of them. If they say 'yes' it gets done. They say 'no', we run away.
Mod
Not my call. Send a message to Contact us on the Help page.
rivka wrote: "Not my call. Send a message to Contact us on the Help page. "OK. I'll do that.
_Anonym wrote: "If you're getting something different, then things are even more screwed up that I thought ;-o "_Anonym, this thread may help explain the book links somewhat:
http://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/1...
rivka wrote: "Banjomike wrote: "As far as I can see, the preview edition was only linked to the 'live' ISBN here on Goodreads. Nowhere else (that I can find). In that case, if the PTB agree, we could treat the..."I am here because I have hit a stone wall via contact us/help. Weeks pass without any sign they even understand the issues I am experiencing.
PTB need to rethink the whole onboarding of new authors to prevent these kinds of errors and make it simple to correct them.
What do I do? Can a 'librarian' help?
_Anonym wrote: "I am here because I have hit a stone wall via contact us/help. Weeks pass without any sign they even understand the issues I am experiencing.PTB need to rethink the whole onboarding of new authors to prevent these kinds of errors and make it simple to correct them.
What do I do? "
Nothing. I've sent a message to support linking to this thread. Now we wait.
Edit:
Can a 'librarian' help?
No. If Rivka says "Send a message", we send a message.
Banjomike wrote: "_Anonym wrote: "I am here because I have hit a stone wall via contact us/help. Weeks pass without any sign they even understand the issues I am experiencing.PTB need to rethink the whole onboardi..."
Thank you for that. Don't see why this should be any kind of problem, especially since all this has to be straightened out before we can advertise on goodreads.
Book issues usually do go in this group; it is rare to have to contact support.The so-called purchase links are confusing, partly because can be customized by each member (all start with a default set from what I understand based on their location). They work best if isbn/asin/bnid numbers/editions are correct.
I'm not sure if I am things making more confusing or helping by explaining the "purchase links" as: The three green buttons at right of "get a copy" are left to right (1) a sponsored link that advertisers pay for (2) ecommerce enabled sites members can set (such as amazon and Barnes and Noble, and (3) non-commercial sites like libraries, again, as set by each member.
There are no book "product pages" on goodreads. Does not matter what is or is not in print, is or is not available for sale, if rights were revoked from a certain publisher, if the cover has since been changed, etc....if book in any edition existed and members were able to shelve (whether or not anyone did shelve or rate), that edition gets a book "data page" at goodreads which does not get deleted.
Book previews are never supposed to be entered as books. It is okay to add a book to goodreads before publication (preferable with a release date). The copyright holder can add an excerpt/preview for readers to the book's data page.
I'm a fairly newish librarian, but, the only instance I know of a book being deleted is if publication was canceled; that is, the book was never published so never available (possibly not even written). Sometimes members waiting on a new book or making a typo when searching so they think book does not exist will create duplicate versions which can be merged into the real book (ratings and reviews are kept).
Part of the confusion is ebook vs. print activities. Print editions from traditional publishers are very likely to have a whole new isbn when a new edition with a new cover is distributed; ebook authors get used to just editing their product pages on various bookseller, pod, and publisher sites and automatically try to do the same on goodreads database.
I'm not sure what to suggest to help with your original post. I'm not sure a preview was ever supposed to have been given an isbn?
Debbie wrote: "I'm a fairly newish librarian, but, the only instance I know of a book being deleted is if publication was canceled; that is, the book was never published so never available (possibly not even written)."This is not completely so. Case in point: Honalee. Never been published, but it's still there on GR.
Experiment BL626 wrote: "This is not completely so. Case in point: Honalee. Never been published, but it's still there on GR. ..."Sorry, I did not mean to make it sound like every unpublished book got deleted; I'm sure the Honalee is not the only case and that gr does not always know the publishing status of anything until a member, author, or publisher posts something.
I was just trying to say (by phrasing it as "the only instance I know...being deleted") that the only case I knew where a books was deleted on goodreads was a book where publishing got cancelled.
And that it's unusual to see a preview entered as a book with a distinct isbn (not saying impossible or that there are no cases of it ever happening).
Debbie wrote: "Book issues usually do go in this group; it is rare to have to contact support.The so-called purchase links are confusing, partly because can be customized by each member (all start with a defaul..."
"Book previews are never supposed to be entered as books." Yes, that is abundantly clear to me NOW that I am suffering the consequences, but was not at all clear to me as an author newly signed up in the author program. Part of the problem is that the potential for this mistake is not flagged for the newly signed up.
It is also a shame there is no mechanism for posting books in the preview or 'under development' stage which are being offered for free in return for a 'critique' that is not a 'review/rating' that will live on to plague the book/author long after the 'preview' has been edited and published. That's yet another thing: a live published book being stuck with reviews of a defunct pre-revision / pre-edited one. Not fair at all.
_Anonym wrote: "That's yet another thing: a live published book being stuck with reviews of a defunct pre-revision / pre-edited one. Not fair at all. "The preview edition currently has zero reviews and zero ratings. It has 1 "to read" and 1 "not going to read" neither of which will affect the numbers. The reviews are all on the Kindle edition.
Debbie wrote: "Experiment BL626 wrote: "This is not completely so. Case in point: Honalee. Never been published, but it's still there on GR. ..."Sorry, I did not mean to make it sound like every unpublished boo..."
Allow me to clarify myself.
Honalee is not unpublished. Unpublished means it has been published before. Honalee has never been published once at all, and will never be published. In that case, GR does know about the publication status, or at least the GR Super-Librarian who made the Librarian's note.
What I'm trying to point out is that the rule that books whose publication status has cancelled are to be deleted is not always followed and appear to be a case-by-case procedure. Honalee's publication status has been cancelled, but its GR book page is still there.
Banjomike wrote: "_Anonym wrote: "That's yet another thing: a live published book being stuck with reviews of a defunct pre-revision / pre-edited one. Not fair at all. "The preview edition currently has zero revie..."
That is not so. The 2 star review by 'Susan' was unequivocally based on the defunct preview. What's more the comments regarding the review demonstrate that beyond doubt, as does the date of the review. I have no idea what makes you say otherwise.
The 'kindle edition' is, or was, just a label ascribed to the long defunct preview. It is NOT the work eventually published on Amazon, never was.
Now I'm confused because the kindle edition sure looks like it has a valid asin (and, while I know we cannot use data from amazon, it actually does show up as a kindle edition on amazon's site).
Dates are one thing but the review is attached to the Kindle edition. If you look at the Kindle page, click on filter, click on this edition, Susan's review is there. If you do the same with the preview edition there are no reviews or ratings.Are you saying that both editions are the preview? The ISBN 9780985389741 is on the epub.
Banjomike wrote: "Dates are one thing but the review is attached to the Kindle edition. If you look at the Kindle page, click on filter, click on this edition, Susan's review is there. If you do the same with the ..."I can no longer recall what I did or did not do in my confusion and consternation with 'editions' at goodreads, so yes, it is possible what you refer to as 'both editions' are both preview editions, one a pre-publication update of the other, but still not published.
The ISBN and ASIN are only correct for the currently published book (October 2012), and incorrect for any other prior version.
_Anonym wrote: "I can no longer recall what I did or did not do in my confusion and consternation with 'editions' at goodreads, so yes, it is possible what you refer to as 'both editions' are both preview editions, one a pre-publication update of the other, but still not published.The ISBN and ASIN are only correct for the currently published book, and incorrect for any other prior version. "
Well, if support are not OK with changing the ISBN/ASIN numbers all this will be moot anyway. Let us see what they say.
_Anonym wrote: "..In the happiest ending to this story, there would be ONE version, the epub version, ISBN 978-0-9853897-4-1, with the correct cover, and a buy links to Amazon, B&N and Kobo. ..."If you mean the green buttons, you'll have to convince your readers on goodreads to edit their middle button to be amazon, Barnes and Noble and kobo in order for that to work. Most won't even think to do so because usually Barnes and Noble or kobo purchases the first green button (google play and other retailors will also purchase that green button, depends on what amount of time purchased and what countries targeted).
I'm really confused now about what is being asked. I see two editions with the exact same bookcover. That bookcover matches what's currently on the product pages at bookseller site. Did someone overwrite the preview bookcover?
By two editions, I mean a kindle asin B009XD1E6O and an ebook isbn 9780985389741.
My purchase links work for the kindle edition. Fail for the ebook isbn but title search brings up a nook with bnid 2940015842708 at Barnes and Noble.
(I didn't add the nook edition as apparently there are issues with the current editions and bookcovers and Barnes and Noble was my only source of the data; but, that absence is why purchase link for Barnes and Noble is not working. I don't normally use kobo; kobo uses the isbn 978 number and finds the book just fine—but, again, looks exactly like the edition here on goodreads.)
Debbie wrote: "_Anonym wrote: "..In the happiest ending to this story, there would be ONE version, the epub version, ISBN 978-0-9853897-4-1, with the correct cover, and a buy links to Amazon, B&N and Kobo. ..."..."
I remain mystified by the allocation of these buttons, which seem unfathomably complex and arbitrary. I do not really care where those links go, as long as they all relate to the published book, not some defunct draft of long ago.
Debbie wrote: "I'm really confused now about what is being asked. I see two editions with the exact same bookcover. That bookcover matches what's currently on the product pages at bookseller site. Did someon..."
Being utterly confused myself, I am not at all sure I can shed any light on that. There may also be technical problems with what you see and what I see. I have never seen any representation of any 'edition' at any time here on goodreads that showed the correct book cover, which is part of the problem. The book cover is supposed to have both the series title and book one title of 'Conundrum' big and bold on it, whereas the one I see in all cases does not even have the series title on it.
The links all go to existing product pages on bookseller sites for me that appeared to be purchaseable/downloadable publications.for the three you mentioned, here are what the links take me to:
amazon at http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B009...
Barnes and Noble at http://www.barnesandnoble.com/w/nine-...
Kobo at http://www.kobobooks.com/ebook/Nine-I...
Are you saying those links are to a defunct preview edition?
Debbie wrote: "The links all go to existing product pages on bookseller sites for me that appeared to be purchaseable/downloadable publications.for the three you mentioned, here are what the links take me to:
..."
I detailed in a prior post here where those links take me when I click on them, which leads me to believe there are further technical problems regarding those links, which all lead to a bookseller purchase page but say 'book not found' on that page for each link when I click on them.
I hope you are beginning to see why all this is driving us crazy.
FYI, B&N listing uses "BN ID" (not ISBN) for this book, which is why the B&N quick link on green bar does not work. New/separate epub edition with BN ID probably needs to be created.
ETA: soon wrote: "FYI, B&N listing uses "BN ID" (not ISBN) for this book, which is why the B&N quick link on green bar does not work. New/separate epub edition with BN ID probably needs to be created."There is a profound lack of onboarding information regarding the proper setup for these links and that for a process which is arcane and peculiar to goodreads, not something one finds elsewhere.
ETA: soon wrote: "FYI, B&N listing uses "BN ID" (not ISBN) for this book, which is why the B&N quick link on green bar does not work. New/separate epub edition with BN ID probably needs to be created."+1. Agree.
The ebook with isbn edition would work at Barnes and Noble only if Barnes and Noble carried it by that isbn. It's not that the Barnes and Noble purchase link is broken. If you go to the Barnes and Noble site and manually search for that isbn, it is not found. If you search by title, it pulls up a nook edition instead with a bnid.
The isbn edition works with kobo link and any bookseller carrying that isbn, the kindle asin edition works with amazon.
I think for Barnes and Noble you are clicking a green button labeled "Barnes and Noble" which is a sponsored link that does search by isbn.
So, we're a little confused on what links you say are broken or are not working..
_Anonym wrote: "There is a profound lack of onboarding information regarding the proper setup for these links and that for a process which is arcane and peculiar to goodreads, not something one finds elsewhere."Actually, I'm not sure that it's GR so much as B&N. B&N uses ISBN for some ebooks while assigning BN ID for others. That is completely outside of GR's realm/control. And no, I have no clue why B&N would do this.
_Anonym wrote: "I detailed in a prior post here where those links take me when I click on them, which leads me to believe there are further technical problems regarding those links, which all lead to a bookseller purchase page but say 'book not found' on that page for each link when I click on them."Are you clicking all the purchase links for a particular edition? That may explain why.
For example, on the Kindle edition. If you click on Amazon, it will go to the Amazon page. But if you click another store, it would to go to "book not found" because those store don't recognize the ASIN.
Debbie wrote: "...I think for Barnes and Noble you are clicking a green button labeled "Barnes and Noble" which is a sponsored link that does search by isbn. ..."From what I've seen, the B&N link will search B&N's site for whatever is noted in the ISBN field. Which is why if B&N lists an ebook via BN ID, then new/separate edition (using BN ID in lieu of ISBN) needs to be created for quick link to work.
_Anonym wrote: "The book cover is supposed to have both the series title and book one title of 'Conundrum' big and bold on it, whereas the one I see in all cases does not even have the series title on it. ..."(I'm still mystified that the original post says author was able to delete the epub edition? Change log looks like maybe asin and isbn fields got altered?)
Duh. My mistake there. You are right, the background graphic is the same on goodreads as on product pages at bookseller sites but not the actual bookcover image with series, title, and author.
So much confusion, I'll let the PTB weigh in before changing a book cover... but, I do think the bookcover currently in place at goodreads is invalid (not really a bookcover) so we should be able to replace it.
Experiment BL626 wrote: "_Anonym wrote: "I detailed in a prior post here where those links take me when I click on them, which leads me to believe there are further technical problems regarding those links, which all lead ..."I am so confused by all this 'edition' business, I hesitate to say more. The only 'edition' I see is the one found at http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/14... which has an ASIN and is presumably the 'kindle edition,' and I see no other link to another 'edition.' All of this is so unnecessarily confusing and complicated, you need a PhD in Goodreads to navigate.
@_Anonym, I know you don't like that two editions are showing, but, if you want the Barnes and Noble link to work, the Barnes and Noble edition does need to be added. Even though that means three editions are showing when it sounds like you want all of them deleted as being defunct, no longer available previews.
Debbie wrote: "@_Anonym, I know you don't like that two editions are showing, but, if you want the Barnes and Noble link to work, the Barnes and Noble edition does need to be added. Even though that means three ..."As said in a prior post, I am happy to have multiple 'editions' preferably with NONE of them being the defunct pre-pub text/cover, which is nothing but a misunderstanding and a mistake, and especially if someone can instruct us how to make the appropriate amendments and/or establish the appropriate 'editions.'
If ONE version must remain the defunct text/cover, at least it should not have the WRONG ISBN.
Debbie wrote: "Book previews are never supposed to be entered as books."It sounds like this was an ARC, not a preview. Debbie, I think you're thinking of those "first three pages free!" previews that you get as promos sometimes; those shouldn't be entered as books. An ARC can be entered like any other book edition and there is no reason to have it deleted. (It shouldn't have had the same ISBN as the released book, though. I suspect that the problem started there.)
_Anonym wrote: "...If ONE version must remain the defunct text/cover, at least it should not have the WRONG ISBN...."I'm still not clear on what edition(s) are defunct (both kindle and ebook editions that show on goodreads appear to be active on bookseller sites.)
Are you saying that the ebook isbn # is wrong? Kobo and other bookseller sites show as being an ebook for sale.
Cait wrote: "Debbie wrote: "Book previews are never supposed to be entered as books."It sounds like this was an ARC, not a preview. Debbie, I think you're thinking of those "first three pages free!" previews ..."
Yes, Cait, ARC is more accurate. If it must continue to exist, should have no ISBN or a different ISBN (I can supply one) but I can't make that change myself and for some reason still unknown I am stuck with the wrong cover everywhere, including the defunct version, which cover I also cannot change, for that or any version.
Do you mean default (as in which "default" or "primary" edition gets featured on your author page) instead of defunct (meaning no longer in existence)?The default edition on goodreads, if not set by the author, is just the most popular/rated edition. For directions on setting a default edition, see Author FAQ #4 this group at http://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/1... or help screens at http://www.goodreads.com/help/show/31... . It's actually not something a librarian can do for you.
Debbie wrote: "_Anonym wrote: "...If ONE version must remain the defunct text/cover, at least it should not have the WRONG ISBN...."I'm still not clear on what edition(s) are defunct (both kindle and ebook edit..."
Please read the whole thread. YES, the ISBN is dead wrong, false and misleading info which I am unable to correct myself.
This topic has been frozen by the moderator. No new comments can be posted.
The "edition" currently occupying the ISBN 978-0-9853897-4-1 on Goodreads was offered in PREVIEW on goodreads.com BEFORE it was ever PUBLISHED. This apparently was a mistake on our part, being unaware how things work at goodreads. The book that was eventually published some SIX MONTHS LATER in a DRASTICALLY ALTERED form and that book now occupies that self-same ISBN on Bowker and in every publication venue (Amazon, B&N, etc.), namely 978-0-9853897-4-1. I am unable to update, delete, or otherwise correct or alter book information on this defunct preview 'edition.'
If it would help, I can provide an alternative ISBN to use for that defunct PREVIEW edition, but I cannot alter the ISBN of the now PUBLISHED edition, and of course I cannot have two radically different editions floating around under different covers bearing the same ISBN, which is the current state of affairs.
In fact, at present, I am mystified that there remain not one, but two "editions" currently on my goodreads account, even after I deleted the epub "edition" out of shear maddened frustration over being unable to update the book's cover, and also because, for some strange reason, I was able to download that epub ebook free without being logged in as the author, and I never had any intention of thus offering the now published book to anyone for free.
Now, when logged in, and I click on the book title, I see a what is referred to among the details as a "kindle edition." However, there is no buy link, or rather, none of the links displayed go to the Amazon buy page. In the happiest ending to this story, there would be ONE version, the epub version, ISBN 978-0-9853897-4-1, with the correct cover, and a buy links to Amazon, B&N and Kobo.
If for some weird internal 'goodreads reason' I am stuck with two versions, the next best ending to the story would be a different ISBN given to the defunct preview version, that version removed from any kind of access or viewing on the goodreads site, and the actually published epub version presented at goodreads with the correct ISBN 978-0-9853897-4-1 and the correct cover and with buy links as noted above.
I am sorely frustrated with the ISBN issue, the cover issue (the cover is simply wrong, in all 'versions'), and the general confusion created by my inability to make cover and other changes myself, confusion both for me and for your readers. I am on the verge of cancelling my account with goodreads in utter exasperation at getting these issues resolved, except that, apparently, that would still not remove the utterly incorrect information regarding this title from your listings.
Dear Librarian, please work with me in sorting all this out and getting the right information to goodreads readers. Thank you.