Untrained Narrators?

[Karen]

Wanted to share a posting from Speaking of Audiobooks. Though this website focuses on the romance genre, I believe most of the issues raised speak to audiobook production in general. I know that your input as dedicated listeners would be valuable! (This is part of a series, so your questions and thoughts posted will be useful.)
http://www.likesbooks.com/blog/?p=934...

[John, Moderator]

I found the column somewhat ... off-putting, especially the use of "well trained"; she might've been better using "inexperienced" perhaps. Isn't it possible that some folks have good voices, and a good sense of pacing, so don't need a lot of "training"? Or, suppose the person has a decent background in theater, or public speaking, but not much experience with narration - are they "less talented" than established folks who with several books under their belt?
A point raised in the comments regarding narrators who don't do accents well was interesting as I've run into the opposite problem -- readers hired for their ability with accents (when needed in the book), but who don't carry the overall story well as a narrator.

[[deleted user]]

The blog post actually spawned an hours-long twitter convo in which a number of different people from the audiobook community (listeners, reviewers, narrators and producers) from all different levels of expertise participated. I've copied my own tweets down in this post, only edited out things like "YES!" or a reference to Highlander for which you kinda had to be there to get ;-)

Anyway, I see that Lea's blog will be hosting a 6 narrator panel in February to discuss "positive solutions - path to success" and I'm hoping that further on, she will hold a roundtable that includes producers/studio directors/casting agents.


@dogearedcopy 10:51am
At one point all the A-List narrators were untrained narrators.

@dogearedcopy 10:53am
If audiobook publishers never take a chance on someone, where are the future narrators to come from?

@dogearedcopy 10:57am
Yes, Big publishers do! Let's think about the past three months when the work flooded the studios. Experienced narrators were swamped bu the books had to go out. New voices had to be found!

@dogearedcopy 11:13am
We have to take chances all the time. Some work out and some do not.

@dogearedcopy 11:14am
You have to weigh the risk of the new talent vs the grade of the book

@dogearedcopy 11:16am
Meaning that you're not going to put new talent on a high-end book...

@dogearedcopy 11:17am
Absolutely, positively QC must be present. I think that's wehere the real issue lies from the user's/listener's end...

@dogearedcopy 11:22am
Just be a little bit more clear, the free market model of which a certain audiobook pub uses is factoring in the backlash. The risk is minimized is placing the bets on backlist titles.

@dogearedcopy 12:13pm
Just for discussion's sake, ALL audiobook publishers make these decisions re new talent...

@dogearedcopy 12:14pm
While not on a Goliath scale, the matrix of of price, availability & appropriateness along with the risk factor are all played out daily.

@dogearedcopy 12:21pm
And too, what exactly *is* an untrained narrator?

@dogearedcopy 12:22pm
There are no narrator schools and... workshops may introduce to the business but certainly aren't training grounds. ACting background is no guarantee either

@dogearedcopy 12:24pm
So is it really about "training" as much as ongoing development?

@dogearedcopy 12:24pm
And as a casting/studio director being able to identify potential?

@dogearedcopy 12:25pm
I won't name names, but there have been artistic successes from narrators whose initial efforts were, quite frankly crap.You gotta know when to hold'em /fold 'em.

@dogearedcopy 12:47pm
Ability to take direction = development. Once a narrator becomes concretized or resistant to direction, it's over.

@dogearedcopy 12:49pm
But again we get back to getting the newbie in the studio to begin with!

@dogearedcopy 12:59pm
The reason why actors are generally preferred is bc they understand things like direction, subtext and how an audience responds.

@dogearedcopy 1:01pm
I often find voice over crossovers more of a challenge bc their direction is in regard to information being delivered in a short span rather than the long haul of a full narrative

@dogearedcopy 1:05pm via
... I view audio drama more akin to acting than voice over; but I was actually going back to what looks promising

@dogearedcopy 2:57pm
I've often decried the extinction of studio directors from the audiobook industry. Now I'm witnessing the passing of casting agents...

@dogearedcopy 2:58pm
No, I'm sorry but assigning audiobooks is NOT the same as casting.

@dogearedcopy 3:08pm
Honestly, not for the better. It may serve audiobook publishers in the short run in terms of profits, but the backlash will not be worth it.

[Dee]

while I did agree with some portions of her column, I didn't with all of them - because for me, it may not be that they were necessarily untrained, but rather, that their narration just wasn't what I was looking for/needed in the book - which is one of the reasons why I find, I rarely listen to a book I have previously read - I don't have the voices stuck in my head

[Jeanie]

I know virtually nothing about the business of producing audiobooks, but I know the difference between a good or shoddy product. I also know enough to understand that the narrator, though the most important, is not the only factor in creating a good audiobook. The oft cited narration by James Marsters of the first four Dresden Files demonstrates this principle perfectly. While with what appears to have been a more fly-by-the-seat-of-the-pants company for the first four books, breaths, swallows, and mispronunciations were left in as if unnoticed. After Penguin acquired the audio rights, all of these distractions disappeared and the narration is now often mentioned as a perfect example of the narrator embodying the main character and bringing something extra to the listening experience. Not that even a bigger publisher always gets it right--"Ghost Story", which nearly blew up the Audible site being a perfect example of how not to handle an audiobook series.

Still, I do agree that with audiobooks the narrator is vital, so competent narrators are essential. But this doesn't necessarily mean an actor. Nowadays, for the most part, audiobook publishers do seem to be matching right voice/right book. If they fall down on this job the listeners will let them know, big time. "Fifty shades of Grey" got someone's attention. Too late to choose a better voice match, but they did adjust the levels so it no longer sounded like kiddy porn.

For now I'm trusting the publishers while polishing my megaphone to shout at them when they do get it wrong. Maybe the power of the marketplace really is sufficient to keep them on their toes. *crosses fingers, and even toes*

[D.G.]

John wrote: " Isn't it possible that some folks have good voices, and a good sense of pacing, so don't need a lot of "training"? Or, suppose the person has a decent background in theater, or public speaking, but not much experience with narration - are they "less talented" than established folks who with several books under their belt?"

I think when Lea used the phrase 'not well trained' she was trying to be polite. She's talking about really bad narrators who have no clue what they are doing because audiobook producers are cutting corners and think that they can get any Tom, Dick and Harry off the street and they can narrate a book. That's what's happening with some romance books that have recently come out on audio. Not sure why it seems to be happening more with romance than with any other genre I read but it's happening.

[MissSusie]

What do you think of this post? I think it's good advice for indie or new authors.

http://davidbridger.com/how-to-pick-y...

[John, Moderator]

I've noticed there seems to be a trend towards "self published" audiobooks recently?

[Karen]

John wrote: "I've noticed there seems to be a trend towards "self published" audiobooks recently?"

You're right, John. Those are coming primarily from ACX, which is part of Audible. From what I have heard anecdotally, and in my own experience, the Royalty Share set up at ACX is not advantageous to narrators. That is, we don't make as much money as we would if we were to be paid up front (which is how it works generally) and in fact, quite a few lose money, because the narrator has to provide a fully edited and mastered product.

[Claton]

Karen's right, John. ACX opened up the market to both backlisted titles and independently published titles (along with some larger, more popular authors) by creating a place where the rights holders could hold auditions by narrators/producers. It has been a huge benefit to many "narrators" (often new to the audiobook genre, if not new voice over "artists") and the rights holders, as the optional royalty share deal allows the small, independent, and self-published rights holders to put out audiobooks with no upfront costs.

Many of these narrators are taking a loss, but mainly in time - as I believe in most deals the narrator has to do the full production. They can sub out the editing and production, but most that I know using the site handle the full production. Sad to say, many of the narrators really don't know how to edit or produce the book; that fact, coupled with the low budget or self-produced rights holders simply excited to get their book to market, may have resulted in a number of poor performances/productions.

I had been a voice over artist for a couple years before I heard of ACX, and had not ventured into the audiobook market. In the past year, I have completed 19 titles through ACX. I would like to believe that I am putting out high quality work (I deal only with non-fiction, as I have no illusions about being proficient at other voices). In each of these works, I have done the full process, taking the work from the page to the retail-ready audio. That includes narrating, directing, editing, QCing, mastering, and on royalty-share deals, marketing as well.

So, while you're going to have newbies to the genre, well-trained or not, you are also going to find quality work coming out of ACX as well.

As for the royalty-share deals, I have actually sought them out almost exclusively, specifically to provide an income foundation for the future. But for well-known and long-tenured narrators/VOAs, Karen's right that most will avoid those deals.

[John, Moderator]

Thanks a lot for your input as narrators, Karen and Claton! There seem to be two sides to this story, but I wanted to object to the proposition that less experienced readers were "undermining" professionals' careers (as it the argument seems to have been).

[Claton]

John, you're absolutely right. I didn't mean to come across that way - I still consider myself one of those less inexperienced narrators! Good point!

[John, Moderator]

I was reacting to the idea that production companies are hiring "untrained" narrators as some sort of "scabs" or something in order to "undercut" more established names.

[[deleted user]]

John wrote: "I was reacting to the idea that production companies are hiring "untrained" narrators as some sort of "scabs" or something in order to "undercut" more established names."

It's more than an idea: The audiobook publishers do in fact undercut established narrators: Whenever a casting decision is made with price and/or availability preceding appropriateness; when a audiobook publisher goes with a cut-rate producer; when a book is assigned rather than cast... these are some of the times when a trained narrator loses work in favor of untrained narrator. It happens in every audiobook publishing house to some degree or another. With a model like ACX, it is more obvious than with other audiobook publishers, but "actionable efficiencies" are becoming increasingly more prevalent everywhere. This is why there's listener backlash (e.g. prolific bad reviews for certain titles and, Lea's post), is starting to occur and why narrators need union protection.

[Jonathan]

Hear hear, Tanya! I concur with your assessment of how professional narrators work is undermined by hasty economic decisions and production choices, and your belief that they need union protection/advocacy. In general, the medium will suffer if the product is diluted by amateurish execution. There are a number of good narrators just starting out, and veterans that on a subjective note are wanting, but we all can agree that the best narrators are experienced Union professionals.

[Richard]

Thanks so much for the info on ACX. My local SAG told us to check it out, and evidently there is a union contract we can get for our work there. This is the only way to keep wages up for all narrators, union or not. And the only contracts you can get with audible, itunes, etc. are solely for the profits and protection of audible, itunes, etc. I've been self-publishing audiobooks from my home studio for ten years, selling plenty of them thru the usual etc's but because they offer deals for joining, deals that allow for unlimited downloads, etc, the royalties are pretty lame. Their contract says that they can even give your books away free if part of a special offer. Also, they ask you to submit your price when you fill out their data sheet, but I've never seen the price I submit used exactly. Usually lower.

[Karen]

For more on the topic, I invite you to check out a forum that AudioGals will be hosting this Friday, 8/8 at 11am EST on the craft of narration and training for the work we do. We'll be answering questions live (you can follow along) and then after two hours it will be opened up for questions. Panelists include Barbara Rosenblat, Holter Graham, Susan Ericksen, Kate Reading, Tavia Gilbert and myself.

http://www.audiogals.net/2013/02/narr...