Amazon Kindle discussion
Book Related Banter
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what do you think about the price of ebooks?
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Lara wrote: "Sales improved when I decreased the kindle price for my book from 7.99 to 4.99, although the downloads on free days are still the winners by a huge margin."But the more important statistic would be how many are actually reading your book at $4.99 versus free.
For example, I've downloaded a large number of free eBooks that I'll probably never get to. But I've immediately read any eBooks that weren't free.
OTOH, over the past two years, all of the Kindle books I've paid money for are books in series where I'd read the earlier books for free...
I use to love King and Koontz, but I'll never buy one of their eBooks at the current prices that get charged. They'd have to come down to at least $4.99 for me to even consider it. But even when I bought DTBs, I always purchased their paperbacks at half price from used bookstores since the cover prices were ridiculous.
I love Kim Harrison series the hollows. But I can get every book of that series at my local library, in overdrive format (Mobi, epub & or adobe). I am so sorry to say this because I do love her work, but I have zero motivation to pay $ 12.79 for the kindle version of her latest book. I like to support the authors, but I can not afford to be irresponsible with my purchases.
I could get a couple independent books for that price.
Also if you write reviews, like I do, there is no motivation for writing a review on a book that has 100's of reviews or even 30 reviews for that matter.
If a book hits it big time popular like lets say the Hunger Games, I will be able to find dozens of that book in thrift stores or yard sales once the movies series are done, just like the way you can now with the Harry Potter books and Twilight books.
With new releases it depends on how desperate I am as, much like with CDs/DVDs the price will always drop in a few months time. These days I have a new limit and it's £7.50 which is what my audible sub comes to per book. Should be noted that in the UK we have something called VAT (value added tax) at 20%, now you don't get it on paper books but e-books are classed as electrical goods so you do get it. Amazon will always try to get the price down for us but if the publishers say no then you end up with say the casual vacancy (at release) for £20/$30.50 for the hardback and £24/$36.50 for the kindle version.
Randy I have wondered about that. Personally I would not download a book that I did not plan to read in the near future even if it were free, but I do realize that many free downloads regrettably do go unread. It is discouraging as an author, because when you get so many downloads you expect a good percentage to write a review, and when that doesn't happen, you realize that many just didn't read it.
Thank you Henry. Hope you enjoy reading it!
Tammy K. wrote: "Lisbeth wrote: "If I can buy an good book (fiction) for $15 or less, I consider that a excellent deal. My logic being that I'm getting hours of stimulating entertainment for about the same cost of ..."A $15 glass of wine is really a $9 glass + tax + tip, but in the end you've spent $15. The wine will last half an hour, or an hour a best. While the book will offer several hours of enjoyment, providing it's a good read. This was my point. The same goes for movies. We don't think twice about spending $12 at the cinema (plus the cost of popcorn which will put you well over $20!) and we get 2 hours of entertainment out of that, so why shouldn't we expect to pay a reasonable price for books? As well, no matter how bad the movie is, the sale price for admission stays at $12 and yet even the best literature on the market will usually at some point find it's way into the mark-down bin at the bookstore. Just a thought.
That's a bit of a straw man I fear. With movies you pay for the production costs and the cinema fees, and in a few years they will come down in price to bargain bin levels or will turn up on tv for free.edit: silly iPad app.
Lisbeth wrote: "We don't think twice about spending $12 at the cinema"Maybe YOU don't. I go to the $5 matinees. And now NetFlix is even cheaper. Just like I used to go to the half-price store for my books.
You pay through the nose if you have to be "first" to do something, rather than delay it just a bit.
And I'd rather have a 25 cent can of Dr. Pepper than that $15 glass of wine. Nectar of the Gods. :)
It's always going to be a more heated issue than most Internet debates as there is the devide between people who want things for cheap or free, and those who make a living out of the book industry. I have a lot of sympathy for authors as the Internet has produced a generation of people with a massive sense of entitlement, but then again I sympathise with consumers who have been victims of the publishers price gouging in the past.
It would be too easy to say they brought this current mess on themselves but the reality is that if a book fails to make money the company will take a hit on the profits which will be absorbed or written off against tax, while the auther genuinely suffers.
I tend to use the "would I buy the author a" argument. If it's a new discworld novel then yes I would buy him a pub lunch with the £10 the book costs. Rowling on the other hand has rubbish trucks filled with money backing up to her house every time a new book comes out and she can go buggery if she thinks I'm giving her a £24 posh breakfast for her new novel (uk release price for the kindle verson), I would rather buy 4 new authors a Big Mac meal worth of money for their book instead.
Yes and No. I consider like many here ebooks to be too expensive. When I have to pay the same or even less for a printed edition than I buy the printed issue. The price of ebooks have nothing to do with the actual price to make another copy, but with prizing system with which publisher try to avoid that the ebook sales cannabilizes the sales of hardcover or paperback edition. That's why the price of the ebook is higher than the price for a paperback as long the paperback edition hasn't been publised yet...Ebooks should cost only 50% or less than the price of the printed edition no likr the 10-20% reducation compared to the printed issue we actually get.
but the 10-20% reduction is the actual cost of producing the print version - the majority of the costs associated with any book are editing, copy editing, formatting, royalties etc
Might be this way, but one time produced the costs for ebook is much less as one can make infinite copies of an ebook...if you sell one copy or one million copies of particulae ebook doesn't make it more expensive...expenses for printing and the paper etc, transportation etc always occure...
As a reader I can count the number of authors that I buy new in hardcover, as soon as their books come out, on the fingers of one hand. Mostly I read library books and dog-eared paperbacks from charity shops, so when it comes to Kindle, I'm a terrible customer. I won't pay more than a couple of pounds for any book, because the once or twice I've done it I regretted it! I wouldn't dream of paying more than £2 to take a chance on a new writer.
Wearing my writer hat now, with a bit of a peeve. Free book giveaways are supposed to be an excellent way to promote your books, especially a series, but I've always, when I've been given a free book (or 'bought' one on a Kindle promotion) done a review. Always. When I promoted a recent short story 96 copies were taken and I got 1 review on Amazon, 2 on twitter and 1 on Facebook. If the other 92 hated it, I suppose I should be grateful they didn't rush off to say so, but how do other writers feel about this - is the problem that Amazon watches for writers promoting each other, which completely kills the review process? Or don't other writers feel any obligation to review?
When it comes to reviews, I read so many books, I don't have time to search for the book and leave a review on Amazon for every book I read so I just do it for the really good or really bad ones. However, as I use GR to keep track of what I'm reading, I leave a star rating at the bare minimum and a review if I can think of something to say, on GR. Equally, I don't take much notice of reviews on Amazon when purchasing a book unless it's got a really bad rating.When it comes to price, as a student I don't have much money to spend on books so, for print books and, even more so ebooks, there has to be a really good reason for me to spend more than a couple of pounds on them (I would rarely spend much on a new author unless it was a pop science book that fit with my research interests). However, I have bought books because I've read the first one free or cheaply on the Kindle.
Ebooks are way overpriced, including e-textbooks. It's a logistical impossibility to travel with your entire 'library'. Why would anyone want to travel with their library, well students for starters. Especially ones that study abroad.I love reading and I am also required (as are most students) to keep up to date on the -latest edition- of the textbooks. The only reason I bought a Kindle was so that I could travel with my textbooks. While the experience so how far has been quite good, I definitely agree that e-books are expensive, but this could be due to supply chain, exchange rate etc.
On the one hand it's sad and disappointing to not be reading from a 'physical book', on the other, it does still transport you to the mental and non -physical realm of reading.
Henry wrote: "Esse wrote: "I don't read indie work, so I'm only buying from big name publishers. I try to keep my purchases under $10, with exceptions for books I'm really excited about or books my book club is ..."Not to impose but, a lot of -not all of it- indie 'work', self published and free e-books are badly written with clique plots.
I think the only way forward for individual indie books to flourish is to be picked up by some form of book clubs, because there are more flooding out every day. Every story about some author making it big has a thousand people picking up their pens; of that thousand maybe one will take off, ten will be readable, another ten would be fine with some spit and polish, and the rest will be dire. Until there is some selection process to replicate the filtering done by commercial publishers, ALL indies face getting grouped together into dire.
If there are already some filter groups in place, please could someone tell me? Goodreads seems like the obvious place for them to start.
Betsy wrote: "I agree with D.J. A good book is worth nearly any price to me. I will pay up to about $10 with little reservation. Above that I need to know that I want to read it. But sometimes I run across..."
I agree. If your'e willing to invest in book, you generally will do so, even if it means scraping buy financially.
J.B. You just voiced my point of view on this subject.J.B. wrote: "Alexandra: Like Esse, it sounds like you already made up your mind to dismiss the work of all indie writers based on the limitations of some. That's unfortunate.
I find the Amazon previews a grea..."
Alexandra wrote: "Henry wrote: "Esse wrote: "I don't read indie work, so I'm only buying from big name publishers. I try to keep my purchases under $10, with exceptions for books I'm really excited about or books my..."
J.B. wrote: "Alexandra: Like Esse, it sounds like you already made up your mind to dismiss the work of all indie writers based on the limitations of some. That's unfortunate. I find the Amazon previews a grea..."
It may sound like that, but I haven't. I have read 'Indie authors' like some traditional mainstream authors that have published mainstream some are good and some are to say the least terrible.
Giving away an absurd amount of e-books on kindle doesn't reduce the quality in itself but simply the market has flooded with bad books.Not because of an increase in supply but because - regardless of the book format- there are so many terrible books around, indie or not, e-book or physical books.
Some are good, and some are not. Being Indie is no guarantee that it is an eclectic well written book, if that's what someone is looking for.
There are books for everyone.If you don't like a book don't read it.
I really think the whole concept of Indie vs.mainstream is a polarised.
Lisbeth wrote: "The same goes for movies. We don't think twice about spending $12 at the cinema (plus the cost of popcorn which will put you well over $20!) and we get 2 hours of entertainment out of that, so why shouldn't we expect to pay a reasonable price for books?..."I've always thought this was a bit of a false equivalency. I go to the movie theater for more than entertainment. I go because I don't have a gigantic TV, or a state-of-the-art sound system, or the ability to invite a bunch of strangers to my home for a shared viewing experience. The movie theater offers a significantly different experience than watching a movie in my home. On the other hand, I don't find as significant a difference between reading an ebook and a paper book, so I'm more liberal with movie funds than I am book funds. It's all about how we individually value different aspects of the experience.
To quote an author in a recent interview, 'publishers jack up the price of e-books for the publishing rights' (e-right) etc
I have come to realize that most free downloads go unread, and therefore the 'ego boost' that an author gets with tons of free downloads is not worth it. For free days on kindle, you have to be enrolled in kdp select which bars you from other electronic formats. It seems that it's not worth it. Its far better to contact reviewers through goodreads and offer them a free copy of your book, atleast that makes a credible review very likely. I am all for constructive criticism, but it sure hurts when somebody talks about your 2 years of hard work and lifelong dream as 'one of those freebies'. I have opted out of the kdp select program for the above stated reasons, I have only 1 day left for free download. Anybody think I am making a mistake?
E.J. wrote: "If there are already some filter groups in place, please could someone tell me? Goodreads seems like the obvious place for them to start...."The ones I know of are:
awesomeindies.net
indiePENdents.org
They reject some 70% of submissions received.
Lara wrote: "I have come to realize that most free downloads go unread, and therefore the 'ego boost' that an author gets with tons of free downloads is not worth it. For free days on kindle, you have to be enr..."Yes, concur. Most FREE wonders get deleted to make space on the Kindle for the next pile of FREE wonders. I suspect the Kindle owner doesn't even know what the FREE wonder is about.
I have to say that not all readers get the free books to bury them in among the paid for books. Although I have a lot of free books (I think I got a bit addicted to downloading them when I first got my Kindle, now I limit myself to once or twice a month!) I am working my way through them fairly steadily, to the detriment of the library books and books I paid for that are currently sitting either on my Kindle or in my house. Ok, so it will take me a while, and there are a few that will go unread (the really terrible ones) but I've probably read 40 free kindle books since January this year, if not more. I would also never delete a book unless I'd tried it, I just wait until I've read enough to make space for it and then send it to my Kindle!Another thing is that there are several books that I have read from my free books pile that have lead me to authors I love and am searching for more books by. I would never have found them without the free book because I don't have the money to buy every book that takes my fancy (unfortunately, or maybe luckily, depends on if you're looking at my bookspace or not!)
One thing I will say is that I rarely review books, unless they're really good or really terrible although I always rate them, I never review on Amazon though, I find it too fiddly to go back and find the book to review when I could be reading another book!
EDIT: Another thing that delays reading some books is that my mood changes from day to day as to what I fancy reading. Working in science, the idea of reading a plague type story is sometimes too scary because I know what's really possible (which is often scarier than fiction!) but I have a few downloaded because sometimes, I do fancy reading something like that. Same goes for pretty much any type of story.
Claire wrote: "I have to say that not all readers get the free books to bury them in among the paid for books. Although I have a lot of free books (I think I got a bit addicted to downloading them when I first g..."Thanks, Claire, for your input. From what I've seen, FREE works when one has already a readers' base. Used with the hope of building one is, with notable exceptions of course, just a shot in the dark.
Personally, a free book goes on an individual-per-individual base, not as a mass distribution. But that's me.
Massimo wrote: "Thanks, Claire, for your input. From what I've seen, FREE works when one has already a readers' base. Used with the hope of building one is, with notable exceptions of course..."I can completely see where you're all coming from, just wanted to point out there are some of us who read them :) (It's a bit like when I hear people claiming that 'the youth today are so terrible etc' I tend to chip in and point out there are exceptions!)
Claire wrote: "Massimo wrote: "Thanks, Claire, for your input. From what I've seen, FREE works when one has already a readers' base. Used with the hope of building one is, with notable exceptions of course..."I..."
Fair enough, Claire :)
PS
And thanks for reading them, but I will not have the chance to have you as a reader ;)
Massimo wrote: "And thanks for reading them, but I will not have the chance to have you as a reader ;) "I don't know, I've had a look at the blurb for your book. Doesn't look like something I'd avoid, just maybe save for a sunny afternoon rather than a dark night! It looks interesting! :)
Claire wrote: "Massimo wrote: "And thanks for reading them, but I will not have the chance to have you as a reader ;) "I don't know, I've had a look at the blurb for your book. Doesn't look like something I'd ..."
Thanks for passing by, Claire. :) For some reasons I thought the genre was out of your realm.
J.B. wrote: "Massimo wrote: "From what I've seen, FREE works when one has already a readers' base."I can't comment on the success rate of FREE, since my book's readership is still in its infancy. However, one..."
Agree.
I think the Free works better if your trying to promote a series rather than a single book. I have bought several 2nd, 3rd books etc in a series after getting the first book free from Kindle. The first book hooked me in and I was willing to pay for the others in the series.But, I still won't pay as much for a Kindle version of a book as I will a paperback or hardback copy. If I own the actual book I can do anything I want with it: loan it, sell it, give it away. You can't do that with a Kindle version so I don't feel like I'm buying something that I will actually own so I'm not paying as much.
I review every book I get for free here on Goodreads. I don't review any books on Amazon.
I've done that with series too Melissa, although I did go through a phase where I had to restrain myself or I would have bought every single second book in a series that I'd read!
While I do pay the posted price for a book that I want to read, it is and should be something for the consumer to consider. I worked at a bookstore once and learned that the cost for physical is not just the writing, printing and distribution but also the fact that all overstock is just destroyed when they are removed from the shelves. So, you basically are buying multiple copies for that price. Since digital content does not have many of those costs associated with it, the price should be significantly lower, truly it should be closer to half the cost of physical books.
Cost is definitely a factor for me. I feel that a lot of the ebooks are overpriced.
I think the pricing Amazon is working fine, there's a huge range, and something for everyone...
Mark wrote: "I think the pricing Amazon is working fine, there's a huge range, and something for everyone..."I agree with you Mark. I think that if the prices are too steep for some, there's always the library.
Linda wrote: "Mark wrote: "I think the pricing Amazon is working fine, there's a huge range, and something for everyone..."I agree with you Mark. I think that if the prices are too steep for some, there's alw..."
Respectfully, I have to disagree with both of you.
First, the statement "there's always the library" assumes that the book you would like to read but which is overpriced is one your local library is willing to spend its probably limited resources on.
Second, the phrase "there's something for everyone" (meaning in terms of price) isn't quite accurate either. There are many fine books out there, books I would dearly love to read, but they are so overpriced I am unwilling to perpetuate that overpricing by buying the books, and thus I stretch my book dollars as far as they will go. Essentially, this relegates me the rationally priced ebooks, or the bargains.
I apologize if I've said this before in this thread, as I know I've said it elsewhere since it's a personal hot button. Mainstream paperbacks with all their attendants costs, including the losses when they don't sell and have to be returned to be destroyed, are generally $7.99. In my experience that means about 300 pages. And in my experience (based on typing some pages out and checking them) that's usually 250-300 words per page.
So I divide the price by the number of pages (getting a price per page) and multiply by 300. If the result is less than $7.99 it's a reasonably priced ebook. But if I use that formula on a 75 page "something" at $2.99, the math results in the equivalent of my paying $11.96 for a paperback. Some overpricing has been the equivalent of paying $15+.
To me that is grossly excessive pricing, and I've never heard of any facts which can support it, given that I know how much it's going to cost me to physically produce a Kindle/Epub/PDF version of what I'm going to self-publish in the near future. Zip, exclusive of paying for the cover art. Calibre is a free program which does all those conversions for me (and manages my 1700 ebook library remarkably well).
So I'll continue my Quixote/windmill crusade against overpriced ebooks. {s}
I intended no offense by expressing my opinion and hope none was taken.
Eric
I have been thinking about this for some time as I am a self-published author (it worked for Walt Whitman). I think part of the problem is misunderstanding the publishing industry. As I understand it historically publishing industry revenue was/is generated from books over 70 years old, canonical works sold to libraries and schools for educational purposes. Pulp fiction/popular fiction success came about because of the ability to print books cheaply post WWII and have them distributed to news stands then book stores and retail stores.
When we think about price we think JK Rowling and King, Dan Brown and other authors who have publishers backing them for advertising and shelf space, yes shelf space.
Admittedly there is a lot more that goes into the process but they also plan to sell thousands of copies, possibly millions, for authors with a reputation.
New/unknown authors cost the industry lots of money. Some of this is accepted for political/social reasons but largely taken as risk for the next big hit.
They also have a slush pile of talented people, many who get rejected.
That being said I arrived at the price of my books because looking at the market I knew I couldn't compete with large publishers. I know that I don't have legitimacy to many people.
And there is an additional concept of the market, I know people don't like to think about it, but there really are narrow groups of people who buy and read books. Many people buy popular books to use as props for their desk.
In short, I based my price on length and depth of story. I feel many people ruin the market by trying to over charge for short-stories and works of poor quality.
And yes, I have published blog fiction, short stories, and excerpts all free to entice readers but it is a struggle to get attention.
However I have also just started. My blog, my attempt, has been a little more than two years in the making.
In so many ways I would like to share what I do but I also would like to make a living at it, possibly a living wage.
I also understand not wanting to begin reading someone's work only to have them quit. I personally experienced this when buying independent comic books several years ago only to have them stop.
There is that risk to one of my books however publishing it as Book I has been a positive learning experience.
So yes, I look to tell a complete story when I can and also build a depth of my published work. While I can understand not wanting to pay too much for what is essentially a license fee I also see that contract changing in the future as people inherit works.
Also, people pay lots of money for licensing fees based on the service they will get. Netflix is a system where you don't own copies, the plus being you can watch as much as you want during that time.
Short of a reading service that does the same thing I am working with the services available. In the meantime it is a struggle but I'm not going to give up any time soon.
I agree with those who say that price affects their decision to buy an eBook. Ironically, I don't blink at the price when I buy a hard copy (I'm a bit old fashioned and like the pretty covers), but I am only willing to buy an eBook when it's cheap. That's one of the things that I love about my job over here at Booksy Headquarters. I get to sit down every morning and find the best Kindle books that are under $5. That includes both marked down best sellers and the better independently authored books. Then, if they are the genres that I like, I buy them!
If you're like me and like to buy ebooks when they're cheap, check out our selection at: http://bargainbooksy.com/
Bryan wrote: "I have been thinking about this for some time as I am a self-published author (it worked for Walt Whitman). I think part of the problem is misunderstanding the publishing industry. As I understand ..."Bryan,
I obviously haven't been back to this discussion for a while and so missed your remarks. Thank you. They're most perceptive. And for what it's worth, I think your pricing for the two LZR novels I looked at is, as the Brits would say, "spot on."
By my calculations, the 297-page one at $4.99 is the equivalent of $5.04 for a 300-page mass market. The 332-page one at $4.99 is the equivalent of $4.50 for a mass market paperback. So they represent excellent value in terms of pricing.
Please accept my best wishes for your success.
Eric
Sales improved when I decreased the kindle price for my book from 7.99 to 4.99, although the downloads on free days are still the winners by a huge margin.