Are there books that remind you of TSH or TLF?

[Nick]

A friend who had read Matthew Branton's Coast said it reminded him of TSH a bit, so I read it, and agree - a bit. There are some parallels, as it features smart young people in a small, tight-knit community. There is a certain self-conscious hipness in the style that made me think the author was trying a bit too hard sometimes - whereas Donna Tartt doesn't seem to be thinking of style at all, seems to be effortlessly hip :¬) It wasn't a bad book, all in all.

[Kirsten]

On goodreads they suggested The Basic Eight by Daniel Handler. I couldn't even get through the introduction. It was utterly annoying and didn't deserve to be mentioned in the same league as The Secret History!

[Nick]

Good to know - thanks. Of course, DT has a new one out soon, so it'll be interesting to see how that measures up against her other books.

[Nick]

Just found that I've GOT The Basic Eight on my Kindle, so somebody else may well have made the comparison and I, without checking it out, went ahead and got it. I just had a read through the first few pages, and have to agree with you that it looks like a slog. I may have got it because I kind of liked the Lemony Snicket books. (I should explain that I don't normally read children's books, but used to do a job in which I had to read them - our company was writing quizzes on books to put onto software for schools.) I may have wondered what Daniel Handler would come up with for adults. I may persevere!

[Kirsten]

Let me know if it gets any better and is worth a read after all!

[Nick]

Will do, Kirsten.

[Elaine]

Hi,

I'm constantly on the the look out for books on par with secret history but so far all the ones that make that claim fall disastrously short. That being said The Bellwether Revivals by Benjamin Wood definitely has echos of secret history and has been the least disappointing out of the bunch. Like Nick mentioned re Coast, there is a bit of a try hard feeling to it but actually the bones are there.

[Nick]

Kirsten wrote: "On goodreads they suggested The Basic Eight by Daniel Handler. I couldn't even get through the introduction. It was utterly annoying and didn't deserve to be mentioned in the same league as The Sec..."

Gosh, no, I had a look at it. It's appallingly appalling. I tried to get through the first chapter, thinking it might improve, but found it shockingly bad. (Uh, if that's not clear... :¬) I read a few Lemony Snickets (I used to do a job reading children's books - don't ask - and found them okay as children's books, but mainly style over content, as they were styled very well.)

[Nick]

Elaine wrote: "Hi,

I'm constantly on the the look out for books on par with secret history but so far all the ones that make that claim fall disastrously short. That being said The Bellwether Revivals by Benj..."

Thanks for the tip, Elaine. I'll have a look at it (one day in the future when I've read The Goldfinch.)

[Nick]

Incidentally, does anybody else think there's too much information being given out about The Goldfinch? I'm not even reading reviews, as they always give far too much away, but I just keep hearing snatches from the story. I'd rather find them out in my own way, by reading it. I don't remember this about The Little Friend; there was lots of hype, but still not as much given away about the events in the story. Mind you, no FB then. I dawdled with TLF, and didn't read it for ages, but think I may have to read this one quickly!

[Bill]

Let me recommend Tana French's The Likeness. Four TCD grad students share a house near Dublin & an undercover police detective impersonates their 5th housemate, who is in fact murdered. Very different from TSH but with that same sense of what it is like to fall in love with a very close-knit group & features a narrator I fell in love with myself.

[Nick]

Bill wrote: "Let me recommend Tana French's The Likeness. Four TCD grad students share a house near Dublin & an undercover police detective impersonates their 5th housemate, who is in fact murdered. Very differ..."

Thanks for the advice, Bill. Strangely enough, I just started it , and I'm enjoying it. Very different, as you say, but it's definitely ringing some bells; the close-knit group seen as a bit snooty, and the isolated house in the country supplied by a relative. I think it'll be a good one.

[Nick]

[Moved from The Goldfinch thread] I just read a book recommended to me as 'a bit like Donna Tartt's The Secret History' and indeed it was. A bit. It's Barry McCrea's The First Verse, about young Dubliners seeking the arcane in books, and features disaffected people who are, to be fair, a bit up themselves, a secret society and a world of sinister coincidences-or-maybe-not. It's set in Dublin and Paris, and is... well, enjoyable hooey, basically, BUT not bad at that. I reviewed it here: https://www.goodreads.com/review/show...

[Bill]

Have a look @ After I Left You by Alison Mercer. I really enjoyed it.

[Nick]

Thanks for this, Bill. Apologies for not acknowledging your post sooner - I had it on a to-do list, uh, which became a didn't list. I'll certainly have a look at this book. After my disappointment with The Goldfinch I'll probably read The Secret History again soon, and maybe this book will put me in the mood for it.

[Nick]

Nick wrote: "Bill wrote: "Let me recommend Tana French's The Likeness. Four TCD grad students share a house near Dublin & an undercover police detective impersonates their 5th housemate, who is in fact murdered..."

Thanks, Bill. I finished The Likeness eventually. I thought it rattled along really well until about halfway, and then it began to flag a bit. As the title suggests, there is a central deception - don't want to spoil it, but it soon becomes clear that it's somebody posing as somebody else and passing, among her close friends. It's just about plausible. The story is a bit of a plodder, though, and that's ultimately what lets it down.

[Bill]

I loved Tana French's The Secret Place. Found the group of 4 BFs very attractive tho' a bit younger than in TSH. You can find my review on Goodreads.

[Nick]

Thanks, Bill. I'll have a look.

[Scarlett]

I know I'm late to the party answering this question, but I've heard from a lot of people that Brideshead Revisited is incredibly similar to TSH.

[Nick]

Scarlett wrote: "I know I'm late to the party answering this question, but I've heard from a lot of people that Brideshead Revisited is incredibly similar to TSH."

Thanks, Scarlett. I've never thought about that! It's an interesting proposition, for sure. There is a slight resemblance, certainly: a close-knit group of people, albeit a family, with what can be seen as eccentric and arcane beliefs (Roman Catholicism, in this case) and an outsider's often painful relationship with some of them, and the lasting mark they make on his life. Brideshead is a great book. I only read that recently for the first time, thinking I'd read it years ago, when I'd only seen the TV series - shame on me... I love anything by Evelyn Waugh, and Brideshead is certainly his epic.

[Bill]

Yes, I put Brideshead Revisited on my shelf of school & uni stories alongside TSH but so far only The Likeness matches TSH for intensity & focus.

[Nick]

Bill wrote: "Yes, I put Brideshead Revisited on my shelf of school & uni stories alongside TSH but so far only The Likeness matches TSH for intensity & focus."

I think you're right, Bill. Did younthink The Likeness lost it a bit as it went along?

[Nick]

I failed to mention Tobias Hill's The Hidden as a TSH readalike. It had the usual elements of a tight-knit group of (generally) unlikeable people. Very well written, and an enjoyable read, I thought.

[Bill]

Just reading the synopsis, I can see how The Hidden has some parallels with TSH. But what is so affecting & beautiful about TSH & The Likeness is that the characters' relationship is so attractive that @ least part of you wishes you could be one of them. (Having once been part of such a group, tho' larger & looser, it's easy for me to imagine.)So the inevitable outcome feels truly tragic.

[Nick]

Thanks, Bill, for an interesting point. I agree with you about the classicists in TSH. There was a certain glamour to their lifestyles; call me superficial, but I liked the fact that they had 'the house' in the country, and its grounds, its lake, a servant, or janitor, at least. It was also great to think of the bubble some of them were able to live in with their money (Francis and Henry) or to be avail to avail of it if they were in trouble (Richard and Bunny getting rescued from the restaurant, and, later, Richard getting rescued from the hippy's place). At least, up till the point where things were obviously going bad. Henry's moral stance on the first murder is kind of indefensible, so it struck me that it'd be hellish to be a friend of his and know about: you know about it, you like and value him as a friend, what DO you do - even if you don't shop him, how do you stay friends without also tacitly approving of his attitude, and his deed, and both? But certainly, you'd be torn, and how much would the lifestyle keep you in the circle?

The people in The Likeness didn't appeal to me at all. There was something about them I just didn't like, and from the off I thought it would have been horrible to be stuck in the house with them! Still a very readable book, though, as they were interesting characters.

[Bill]

That they actually found the formula for a potion that literally made them possessed by Dionysus & able to rend the farmer limb from limb like Pentheus in Euripides' Bacchae (the sparagmos) went beyond my personal limits for realistic fiction - I felt we were in the realm of myth where the usual categories of right & wrong simply do not apply, anymore than you could convict Agave of killing Pentheus when she used his head for a football.

I see both Henry & Daniel as characters who attempt to live according to the principles of Greek tragedy, full-throttle, no-limits, no-regrets.

[Nick]

Sure, the events behind the first murder were skimmed-over, a bit. I think that's one of the magic things about a book that tells a good yarn, though: TSH has plenty of flaws, but I forgave them with the odd tut, then carried on to see what else was going to happen.

[Steve]

Hi, all!

So I just joined goodreads and a Donna Tartt group was the first thing I searched for. This is the first post I am writing, so please let me know if I am off-message or otherwise offensive in any way. I also realize that the last post on this thread was over a year ago, but I've been wanting to start any dialogue with fellow Tartt fans, so I figured it couldn't hurt to try.

My most recent read which reminded me of her style was Garth Risk Hallberg's City on Fire. It recalls TLF in the sense that it follows multiple characters from a third-person perspective and harkens back to TSH by pivoting around a murder. Though City on Fire shrouds the murder in a bit more mystery than TSH, it similarly deals with the fallout of the death as it affects the other characters of the story. Here they are not all friends - the cast is composed of a large ensemble of characters, some of whom are more closely connected than others - but they are touched by the same stream of events in intricate and deeply affecting ways.

It is a LONG read, perhaps a higher word count than The Goldfinch, and an intense undertaking. The story is intelectually and emotionally demanding as it weaves through time to widen the lens of the narrative and contextualize the central plot points (most of the action takes place in 1970s NYC).

Most of all what made me think of Donna while reading it was the quality of the writing. Hallberg paints vivid scenes and isn't afraid to step out of the corporeal for some expertly-crafted insights into the mind and/or poetically apt expressions of the feelings at play in a moment. He does this in a very deliberate yet seemingly effortless way reminiscent of Tartt's perfect prose.

Hey, how'd I do?

TLDR: I love Donna Tartt and I also loved City on Fire, above I try to explain why. If you also like both, I'd be happy to hear from you :)

[Nick]

Welcome, Steve. And thanks for a great first post. I realise this group has gone a bit quiet over the last year. I guess we need to keep an eye out for more books that give us the DTs.

My excuse is that I've not been reading much fiction of late - bad excuse, the question is WHY NOT... Just a big pile of non-fiction to get through.

You've grabbed my attention with your mention of City on Fire. It sounds great, and I'm certainly going to look it up. That's the main thing, the quality of the writing. There have been a few recommended whose writing just didn't come up to the mark (for me, anyway). I'm going to head for Amazon right now and download a sample of City on Fire.

Have you read anything else that reminds you of DT?

I saw a copy of The Goldfinch in a charity shop the other day, and it reminded me that maybe I ought to read it again. I didn't enjoy it, much. Maybe a second reading will help it grow on me. I may be too old to read the next book from her if she takes her usual decade, so I need to enjoy what there is!

[Frances]

Glad to see the group has been reignited!

Thank you Steve.

I think that The Secret History is a special case. An outlier. That book really stands apart. I'm racking my brains and there just isn't anything on a par to it that I've personally encountered. I think The Goldfinch just didn't fulfil its own potential, and just petered out. I'd really like to come across more Tartt-esque works so please keep the recommendations rolling in. I can't wait to get my hands on City on Fire based on what you've described.

Have you tried The Talented Mr. Ripley by Patricia Highsmith? Creepy, sinister, rigorous storytelling. Similarly, Strangers on a Train is a great read. I love a gripping tale with emphasis on characterisation and setting.

Sigh. I wish Donna Tartt wrote faster.

[Nick]

Yes, Donna should take a typing course... I know what you mean.

I was terribly disappointed with The Goldfinch.

I've been re-reading the Ripley novels this year - The Ripliad, as it's referred to, half tongue-in-cheek, I think - and have one left to go. None of them quite come up to the standard of the original, but are still great in their own way. I read the first one years ago, in my twenties, and had forgotten it sufficiently so that when the film came out I could enjoy the story. One unfortunate thing about that, though, is that I now think of the setting and characters of the books as they appear in the Matt Damon one. The books were written many years apart, in some cases, so there is a clunky swingin sixties vibe to some of them, and even a bit of glam seventies. I like most of Patricia Highsmith's writing.

But back to Donna Tartt. You're right, The Secret History is out there on its own, I think.

I looked up City on Fire, and downloaded a sample. The reviews are either like it or hate it - but then a lot of people are like that about The Secret History. The scope of it seems enormous.

[Bill]

What is it about Secret History that makes it so special? For me it's belonging to a small group of very close friends @ a critical stage in our formation & sharing secrets. In the process of maturing, the friends learn that love & good intentions aren't enough. Without integrity & total honesty, betrayal & destruction inevitably follow. It could be something else than Classics that brings them together, but basing the story on a Greek tragedy- here Euripides' Bacchae - works brilliantly. Donna Tartt is an excellent writer, but in TSH she also had exceptional ingredients to work with.

[Nick]

True, Bill. The idea that kindred spirits can create a world of their own amid the often crass antics of undergraduates was really well managed. I mean for example how in addition to the explicit criticisms of Bunny - Henry's ridiculing his essay at one point -there was implicit criticism of him, too, for having a 'normal' girlfriend, for eating grilled cheese sandwiches, even, and for his obsession with other people's clothes, and backstories, etc. It was as if Bunny wanted to keep a part of himself outside the classic group, a little. Richard was able to be like that, too, with his occasional speed/coke habit, and the odd campus party. In fact, I liked Richard because he seemed able to have a bit of fun in this way, and liked , a bit, the girl next door to him (was it Judy... gosh, may have to read it again :)

But it's how you do it that matters, and I think the writing is superb. It's flawed in parts (not very often) but so good overall that I find myself groaning, but forgiving the flaws.

[Steve]

*GOLDFINCH SPOLIERS for anyone who hasn't read it*

I suppose I'm on the outside in loving The Goldfinch. The Secret History is clearly Donna's masterpiece, but I think The Goldfinch succeeds in a lot of unexpected and difficult ways. It was a very ambitious project, with the endeavor to encompass an entire life's journey of one young man who you have to, as the reader, be willing to dive into empathy with whether you agree with his choices or not. And you have to accept the rotating cast of characters as they enter and exit his life, just as people enter and exit our real lives, often enough when we don't want them to. It is a very unfocused narrative in that sense, but I think it rings true as a portrayal of the way relationships ebb and flow over time. It also pans away from the action at the end to focus on the mind of Theo. He is not present for all of Boris' grand adventures in recovering the painting, we only hear about those through later dialogue. This is not the easy or popular choice for an author, but I think what she does accomplish in these hotel room scenes is an amazing philosophy-through-storytelling coup which hits home because its tied to the deeply personal emotional journey we've followed Theo on for 1.2 billion pages (and because her writing is still on-point). This is very classic Russian author and goes against modern American prose standards in a way that is off-putting for many readers.

The Secret History achieves exactly what it sets out to do in a very focused and plot-driven structure where the setting and cast are established and the narrative works within those boundaries. It also has the benefit of dynamic likability, which is a term I just made up to describe the way that you can favor and dislike each of the characters at different points of the story, but usually when someone pisses you off, there's someone else doing something to make you happy and/or proud, much like a real friend group. This balances the reader's enjoyment of the piece because there's usually an easy in to empathy somewhere in the cast. It shifts very nicely from mystery to drama as Richard gradually earns the confidence of his classmates. We are teased with their strange behavior and rewarded with well-paced revelations. Then, when the curtain is finally fully drawn and Richard becomes an accomplice to their situation, the story charges full steam ahead without flinching and Richard witnesses all of the dramatic climaxes first-hand (with the exception of some of the twins' fights, which I would still like to see Donna write in a short story or something). But he actively takes part in the final dramatic arc of the book in a way which is very satisfying - he even gets wounded in the climactic scene, emphasizing the depth of his involvement and the inescapability of consequences.

While one may be more enjoyable than the other, I think both pieces are beautifully structured after the themes within them. The Secret History deals with classics and creates a dramatic dynamic amongst an assembled cast while The Goldfinch contains Russian and Eastern European characters and deals with art-philosophers while creating a sprawling philosophy-within-art narrative.

[Steve]

I haven't read The Talented Mr Ripley or Strangers on a Train, though I've heard good things about both, so thanks for reminding me, I'll add them to my lis1!

Frances wrote: "Glad to see the group has been reignited!

Thank you Steve.

I think that The Secret History is a special case. An outlier. That book really stands apart. I'm racking my brains and there just isn'..."

[Nick]

Thanks, Steve.

Some great comments about both books.

For what it's worth, here's my review of The Goldfinch on Goodreads:

https://www.goodreads.com/review/show...

I will give it another go!

[Nick]

I like 'dynamic likeability', Steve. It's a good description of why we are drawn to characters and their actions.

[Kathleen]

Happy to see new activity on this topic.....could chat about Ms. Tartt all day long. I am an avid reader, and my reading list is LONG, so I rarely re-read anything. But a couple years ago I found myself going through a rough time, and in the interest of finding true literary escape, I read TSH again. Much to my delight, (20 +years after initially reading it), I thoroughly enjoyed immersing myself in that world again. I love that book so much!
Based on the recommendation I found here, I did read "The Likeness" and I have to say the group of friends in that novel reminded me VERY much of TSH. The premise of the story is ridiculous, but the rarified atmosphere and enigmatic characters that French creates are very reminiscent of TSH....actually the work really feels like an homage to Tartt's wonderful novel.

[Bill]

I'm sure Tana French read The Secret History & Daniel reminds me of Henry. True, the premise that Cassie is an exact image of the victim is highly implausible, but French makes it seem almost believable & once we accept it, the rest flows naturally. I found the Dionysian orgy dismembering the farmer in TSH incredible on a naturalistic level, but we're already half-way into the realm of myth.

[Kathleen]

Funny, I read The Secret Place after reading The Likeness---once again with the hope of delving into another TSH-like experience (ha!), but ugh, hated it. Put me off French entirely now. Those girls....yuck, did not want to spend ANY time with them! And the detective characters seemed very one dimensional....not nearly as fleshed out as Cassie in The Likeness.

[Bill]

Oh sure, but the police in THS are supposed to be horrible; the whole druggie scene is essentially satiric comedy - esp. when they win the college bowl drug awareness quiz competition.

[Nick]

Thanks, Kathleen. I tend not to read anything again, but nearly always spot something in TSH that I missed, or didn't appreciate. I didn't much like TLF the first time I read it, but loved it the second time. That's why I'll give The Goldfinch another go.

I think The Secret Place sounds well worth missing!

Bill, I kind of liked the police in TSH. I think they were drawn very well, weren't so dumb, or such outsiders, that Henry and co were going to get away with it by a mile. They were a very real threat for a while. I never thought of the druggie scene as satirical, but comic, for sure. I'd forgotten they won the drug awareness competition - yes, very funny.

I loved the funeral, too, one of the best comic passages I've ever read. You see Bunny's family and you immediately think, 'Ah, this is what made Bunny, for sure.' You always think he might be better off dead, unfortunately.

[Bill]

Bunny is definitely better off dead, which is why I thought he needed killing!

[Bill]

Kathleen, I agree with you about Conway in The Secret Place but liked Holly & her roommates. Like in TSH we have a 'victim' who needs killing but unfortunately the killer gets caught - ironically as a result of Holly's going to the 'nice' cop. Conway's more sympathetic in The Trespasser only because the victim is more likeable & Kennedy in Broken Harbour is worse. For a cop of Cassie's calibre, try Sharon Bolton's Lacey Flint.

[Kathleen]

I find so often that I will read a book that has a zippy plot in an interesting setting, but the writing/prose is mediocre and lackluster. And then I say to myself, "if only Donna Tarrt had written this!". I'm thinking anything Gillian Flynn, and most recently Franklin's Crooked Letter, Crooked Letter. Is it terrible that i said that? lol

[Bill]

Kathleen wrote: "I find so often that I will read a book that has a zippy plot in an interesting setting, but the writing/prose is mediocre and lackluster. And then I say to myself, "if only Donna Tarrt had written..."
It's only 'terrible' because Donna Tarrt & Marisha Pessl are simply the two best prose stylists writing in America. Gillian Flynn has a great imagination but her prose is closer to that of the popular magazines where she got her start.

[Kathleen]

interesting......I didn't care for Nightfilm at all, even though I thought it would be right up my alley. Something else I should try by Pessl?

[Steve]

Looks like Pessl has two novels out and her debut was entitled Special Topics in Calamity Physics. It appears to have received a lot of acclaim. Never heard of her before, thanks for the suggestion, Bill!

[Steve]

Harkening back to anyone who was intrigued by City On Fire and tying it into recent cop character discussion: there's a great investigator in this book! When he's first introduced, I was worried that he might end up a charicature and/or device, but he grows into a wonderfully fleshed-out and enjoyable persona.

[Nick]

Kathleen wrote: "I find so often that I will read a book that has a zippy plot in an interesting setting, but the writing/prose is mediocre and lackluster. And then I say to myself, "if only Donna Tarrt had written..."
Not so terrible, for sure!