Queen Maas' Assassins discussion
Pairings: TOG
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Celaena & Dorian ~ Pairing Discussion
message 301:
by
Stephanie
(new)
Sep 11, 2015 01:40PM
@Miro that's exactly the part that I think references their future. I'm not sure if it mean romantically or if it just means a new evil free world in which they are living in a peaceful land. Something they have not experienced ever.
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I don't think there is a reason for Rowan and Dorian to end up fighting each other. They're essentially on the same side, and given Rowan's deep bow upon encountering Dorian and meeting him properly, helps now seemed to indicate that he had a deep matter of respect for Dorian.
Stephanie wrote: "I don't think there is a reason for Rowan and Dorian to end up fighting each other. They're essentially on the same side, and given Rowan's deep bow upon encountering Dorian and meeting him properl..."Oh yeah, just remembered how Rowan bowed to Dorian. I admit, that DID surprise me a bit. I'm just fantasising what it would be like for Rowan and Dorian to go into a battle head to head. Both of them are really powerful, so it would be really interesting to see who would come out winner...
SJM said that she was inspired by Lord of The Ring. And I see a lot of Aragorn in Dorian.Aragorn fled his destiny but eventually, he became king and Dorian was powerless because of his father and the collar and now, he is king.
It would be epic to see him lead the battle, you know ? Doing a super speech before charging the enemy. Look at this picture :
https://www.pinterest.com/pin/2468536...
Mirou wrote: "SJM said that she was inspired by Lord of The Ring. And I see a lot of Aragorn in Dorian.Aragorn fled his destiny but eventually, he became king and Dorian was powerless because of his father and..."
Thanks for the link Mirou!! Totally stalking SJM's pinterest now!! xD
Oh my God. Reading all this is making me so eager to finish QoS and read this part. I can't wait!!! I think that Dorian is more powerful then Rowan, even if he is untrained. At the end it doesn't matter really if he's untrained, he could just unleash his power suddenly and it would still be more powerful. Besides, who's to say he doesn't have control of his power? He was controlling it pretty good at the end of HoF against his father, and also leaving Chaol unharmed. Plus not to mention he did all not with iron in his blood, which is supposed to STIFLE his magic, yet look at what he still managed to do.
I really don't think he needs that much training. God I can't wait to read about Dorian in the rest of QoS and in the next book.
Also the sword that Aelin has is Goldryn I'm pretty sure.
Oh, he needs a lot of training. Trust. He has always had to hide it. Even Aelin needed training and she's had a better grasp on hers than He's ever had on his. Part of that was bc he has always had to hide it.
Was reading though HoF for a few and just realized Dorian and Sorscha consummated their relationship. I doubt that means much of anything. But still, it seems purposeful. Like it's always better when the/a hero type (let's call him the one that gets the girl) only sleeps with his one true love, whoever she may be in YA. I think it's different for females. They we tend to be more forgiving of their dalliances in YA/NA. Lol
Until she was trained Aelin never had a good grasp on her power. She burned a library once cuz she got angry at the librarian. Dorian had to hide his magic and it just stirred a little when he got angry or something but I think before Aelin got trained Dorian actually had better initial control of his magic. He probably still needs a bit of training, but considering that he had NO ONE to teach him yet he still did all that he did, he's pretty well off.
Lexie wrote: "Until she was trained Aelin never had a good grasp on her power. She burned a library once cuz she got angry at the librarian. Dorian had to hide his magic and it just stirred a little when he got ..."I agree. I loved when Aelin said that Dorian's power was "Infinite". I think his power can take any form and thus, it can amplify it. Like what happenned with Aelin
I disagree he had better initial control of his magic. The fact that he didn't know what would set it off, nor how it would react, or how to stifle it when it would erupt at inappropriate times (chiefly in front of his father), which is why he sought out Sorscha's iron tonic, is not having control. It's praying for the best when you know you're capable of doing the worst. It's random. Control means there is a method, there is power and ability to get a certain result. It's not random.
What happened at the climax of QoS was not having control. If it weren't for Rowan both Dorian and Aelin would be shredded and splattered, not to mention the chop suey the rest of Rifthold would have been. She was a child when her powers manifested and so the library burning makes sense to me. Additionally, Dorian's magic is also tied to his emotions (I think all magic to a degree is) and he's a much more relaxed and hard to frustrate person than Aelin is. Even as children. He has shattered glass in the hall just out of frustration and frightened the hell out of himself. So while his lack of ability to control his his magic when it decided to manifest—while he was an adult, no less— I wouldn't say he has more control than Aelin did before training. If anything, they're even.
I think that, perhaps, Rowan my babe will try to train him. At least for now, he`s the most capable of training him. Dorian needs training, girls. War is coming and he`ll need it.
Noris wrote: "I think that, perhaps, Rowan my babe will try to train him. At least for now, he`s the most capable of training him. Dorian needs training, girls. War is coming and he`ll need it."He definitely does need the training. I'm not sure how Rowan would be his trainer considering he's attached to Aelin's titties and is a member of her newly returned court. He will not want to leave her side at all.
I really can't think of anyone else who would be tasks with training Dorian with his magic either. I mean, I know his budding whatever-ship with Manon is going to happen, but I see what they learn from each other to be less tangible. He will teach her compassion, trust (outside of her 13) and humility, while she will like teach him to be more assertive, confident, and badass. She doesn't have magic powers like Dorian, Aelin and Rowan, so I can't see her teaching him how to use and harness his powers.
It's odd. Chaol is the Kings Hand now, yet he's being sent away to the southern continent, so who is going to be there with Dorian? Aelin and her court have returned to Terrasen, and in the last chapter, it says Chaol is leaving Adarlan in 3 days time. I presume Nesyrn is also traveling with Chaol, so...who remains with Dorian? Not only will it take almost a month for Chaol to get to the healers, they will have to heal him and he will also have to try and form those southern alliances. Aside from the foreshadowing of Manon, I have not one freaking clue as to who will be in Rifthold with the new King.
Stephanie wrote: "Noris wrote: "I think that, perhaps, Rowan my babe will try to train him. At least for now, he`s the most capable of training him. Dorian needs training, girls. War is coming and he`ll need it."H..."
I thought about that too. I don't know, I just hope he doesn't break up
Liz wrote: "Argybargy wrote: "Ale wrote: "Argybargy wrote: "Ale wrote: "Argybargy, I know where you're coming from, but I think it's not being sloppy at all. To me, it was very obvious that Dorian and Celaena ..."How can you say he let her go too easily when he tried a few times and she basically cursed him out, then got with his BFF, and both she and his BFF pretended he didn't exist any longer and that he didn't matter? This was in CoM, btw. And it was hella funny to me that when shit went south with her and Chaol, Dorian is who she decided to give the time of day too again, but pitifully, it was bc she has no where/nor no one else to go to. Which has always made me feel like Dorian deserves better than the likes of her. To me, she's never fully appreciated him and he has always seemed rather expendable to her. Unlike how he's felt about her, not with just his words, but his actions.
I appreciate him for not making this into some form of competition between he and Chaol, bc he was right when he said, he deserved to be loved just as much as he loved someone himself. And have you ever tried to fight for someone who doesn't want you? It's not endearing, it overwhelming and upsetting. Celaena/Aelin literally shut him down and discounted his feels. Pride is real ppl.
deleted user wrote: ""I know who her endgame was for her original endgame was for Maas' original on FictionPress for Queen of Glass and we've been told it won't be the same.Excerpt from Interview
Have you already d..."
This interview still doesn't provides any definitive answers about who Aelin ends up with. Nor does it says Aelin makes her choice in QoS. It just says things are different from her FP version, and they are, For example, CoM wasn't even a part of the original story at all. So, for me, all it confirms is that the ending is a different ending than the original version,
How Aelin gets there and who she gets there with is anyone's guess, STILL.
I totally agree with you Stephanie about how Aelin/Celaena and Chaol basically said "Peace out" to Dorian in CoM until the 2nd half of the book. Don't get me wrong I LOVE CoM but it always made me feel like Celaena didn't value Dorian as much as she should have. I think towards the end of CoM she realized her and Dorian really could have been friends the whole time and she was being stubborn and overly cautious, but I understand where she was coming from in a way because he is the son of the man who murdered her family and butchered her Kingdom. I hope we get to see more of Doraelin in the next 2 books because I really enjoy their relationship and I want to see them help eachother build their kingdoms. Platonically or romantically, it doesn't really matter to me. Anyone Aelin/Celaena ends up with will be perfect. (Though I do think it will be Rowan at this point.)
Same! I remember poor Dorian was all alone in CoM, and he had to deal with finding out he had MAGIC! I was so happy when Celaena and Dorian were finally talking again, I love every scene between them. They could totally possibly be together, anything is possible. They've been through so much, and I'm pretty sure they're both mortal...? So they won't outlive one another? Oh well not too sure about that. They are fire ad ice and compliment each other in every way. Plus there's one thing I want to say: People have been saying that Aelin and Dorian can't end up together bc of the kingdom complications. But I think it would BENEFIT Erilea. The people of Adarlan were mostly not necessarily bad, it was the evil king and the Valg army he tried to raise who was doing all that, so in turn, I don't think Terrasen will hate Adarlan. And just think, Aelin and Dorian ruling over a united kingdom, with magic restored! With Rowan and Chaol and Aedion and all in the castle with them, with their great court, they'd be an unstoppable empire as Terrasen was before. That idea is awesome to me.
Dorian has raw magic, it can come in any form, not merely ice. As for uniting the Kingdoms, I disagree. I feel there should be a great deal of animosity toward the people of Adarlan from all of the conquered kingdoms. Despite the source of 'evil', the people of Adarlan did nothing while the people of other countries were enslaved and brutalized. If you recall in QoS, civilians were throwing rotten food and even cheering during the public executions.
Yeah but what were those civilians SUPPOSED to do? They couldn't defy heir king. Anything they could've tried to do would get them killed or sent to slave camps, so why would they risk that if there was nothing they could do?
Hatred and prejudice have no basis in logic. The people of the previously conquered nations most likely feel that an uprising should have occurred, or that the citizens should have joined the various rebel groups. While it isn't the most logical of conclusions, they probably feel like by inaction, the people of Adarlan are condoning the kings actions. Collectively, they did embrace at least one of his tenants; magic is evil, therefore those that are gifted are evil.
I remember Liz said that she'd thought Dorian had let Celaena/Aelin go too easily and I could not understand why she thought that. This was the scene in CoM that basically basically told him to fuck off. earnestly. How are you to fight for someone who says that to you?
...Dorian nodded, his smile fading. Silence fell, interrupted only by the ticking of the clock on the table. She crossed her arms, remembering how he’d smelled, how his lips had tasted. But this distance between them, this horrible gap that spread every day … it was for the best. Dorian took a step closer, exposing his palms to her. “Do you want me to fight for you? Is that it?” “No,” she said quietly. “I just want you to leave me alone.” His eyes flickered with the words left unsaid. Celaena stared at him, unmoving, until he silently left...
My poor baby, Dorian. She treated him like straight up shit, yo.
I don't disagree with you on how Celaena treated him, but before Celaena broke off with he was talking about never letting her go and how he'd tear the world apart.And when she said that she didn't want to pursue things between I felt that he didn't fight for her in the beginning. She shouldn't have to tell him to fight for her.
I feel like if he had truly loved her he would have tried to stay by her side as friend at least. And he just kind stayed away, silently pining until he sees Chaol and Celaena's relationship blossom when he quietly lets her go.
But Dorian only stayed away bc he was hurt. When basically dumped him how can you expect him to openly fight for her. He still loves her afterward but then eventually he realised it would be better all around if he let her go. Then Celaena and Chaol were ignoring Dorian, and remember, he was going through his own problems, the court, his cousin Roland, his father, his MAGIC! Besides, just bc their love in ToG might not have been real, doesn't mean it can't change, and the two might realise it, now that they've matured more.
Actually, Dorian stayed away bc she told him to leave her alone. She went to great pains to exclude him from anything she and Chaol did together and she always heavy-sighed and act like she was bothered by his presence whenever they ran into him in CoM. I just finished reading it again, so it's all fresh. She also didn't give him the time of day again until 73% when she confessed she had no where else to go after Nehemia's death. She made him feel like shit. When ppl you love act like they're repulsed by you, it makes you feel unwanted. He avoided her bc she made it pretty clear that she didn't even want to be friends.
Yeah, I agree, both Chaol and Celaena were pretty mean and excluding Dorian for the majority of CoM.
Chaol and Celaena were really wrapped up in each other and I agree Dorian got excluded which I didn't like at all.But what I'm talking about is the time between ToG and CoM. Celaena breaks up their pseudo relationship and Dorian walks away and they agree to be friends. Dorian is understandably heartbroken while Celaena isn't too broken up about things, but I don't feel like she was lying about being friends.
I got the impression in the beginning of Crown of Midnight that Dorian had been avoiding her both because of his feelings and he doesn't quite know how to handle her as an assassin. I'm not saying he doesn't fully accept her, but he himself admits he doesn't recognize her like that. Which is my point about he could have made more of an effort as a friend, to stop the flirting, and just be by her side. I get that he was heartbroken, but personally I don't find this outside the realm of possibility.
Later, yeah, Celaena said some awful things to him and told him to leave her alone. I have no problem with him staying away then.
Oh well. At least they sorted everything out in the end, facing that think in the library tunnels.
Come to think of it, I don't think I've ever seen Dorian NOT flirt with a woman in this series. Besides Kaltain because he couldn't stand her at the time for obvious reasons, I mean he does have a "Playboy" relationship for a reason. xD I don't think he could find the balance between his feelings for Celaena and trying to develop a REAL friendship, and like Liz said he couldn't really accept Celaena as an assassin for the longest time. It's also for this reason why I think when he let her go romantically later on in CoM that he ended up saying to Chaol in HoF "You do not have the right to wish she was not who she is." Because he had done that himself.Dorian thought he was in love with Celaena but he really loved the IDEA of her. She was different and didn't fawn all over him. She openly hated his Father and was damaged in ways that he didn't understand but found mysterious none the less. He liked dancing the line of danger with her but he didn't like when she was truly dangerous. To me this is why when he had the Rose goggles removed in CoM he realized so much more about her and began to accept her for who and what she was. In a way both Dorian and Chaol throughout the series so far have had to come to terms with accepting Celaena/Aelin for who she is and in doing so they realized just how terrible the King was and they ultimately had to decide where they stood (Especially Chaol.)
I also hope that somehow Elena or Mort...maybe even Nehemia will be there to help Dorian (Hopefully Aelin too) because he is seemingly going to be all alone in the next book and that is NOT okay! I'm hoping that Elena will show up again now that the King is out of the Castle. Plus she has a lot of explaining to do. xD
Dorian knew all along that his father was bad though. He was terrible to him as a kid, we saw in that little flashback of Celaena's in HoF that Dorian was terrified of his father I think he often beat him or something like that. Back then it was just that Dorian wasn't able to stand up against his father and he grew up in fear of him. But as he got older and found he had magic and, for Chaol and Sorscha and everyone at the end he was finally able to stand up to his father. Then look what happened at the end of QoS, gosh. If all that was true it's kinda sad that the king had to die with his son hating him and for Dorian too, never getting to know his TRUE father. I hope more light is shed on this in the next book. And God yes, Dorian better not be left completely alone that'd be the most stupid thing to do. How will he cope with being king? So many questions I need the next book now!!!
I sadly see this ending up as the final pairing. BUT I LOVE ROWAN SO MUCH!
Seriously? I still see Rowaelin as endgame, what makes you so certain of that?
In theory, i've always thought D and A would end up together, but...there has not been any inkling of that happening since ToG. Personally, I still think Dorian deserves better than Aelin. She has treated him as an afterthought and expendable far too many times for me to feel any differently about her being his love interest (especially since she's treated all her other boos with more regard), even though, i'd always hope they would end up together.
Lexie wrote: "Seriously? I still see Rowaelin as endgame, what makes you so certain of that?"Well, if you've read QoS, then here's why:
(view spoiler)
Stephanie wrote: "In theory, i've always thought D and A would end up together, but...there has not been any inkling of that happening since ToG. Personally, I still think Dorian deserves better than Aelin. She has ..."OMG Stephanie that's an interesting idea! I kind of agree, I actually think Nesryn might fit with Dorian way better because Dorian's always been so quiet, and she's more bold and kind of 'warrior-esque'. I HATE Nesryn and Chaol together, there's just no chemistry.
You know, the more I think about this, the more it makes sense! OR, Lysandra could end up with him... But I ship her and Aedion way more.
I don't know! I'm so confused! LOL
I feel if Aelin ends up with someone other than Rowan, that means Rowan dies. ;_;
Dawn wrote: "I feel if Aelin ends up with someone other than Rowan, that means Rowan dies. ;_;"IKR because they're carranam! God, if that happens I will die too. My baby cannot go. *whimpers* WHAT FRESH HELL WILL TOG #5 HAVE IN STORE FOR US?
Stephanie wrote: "In theory, i've always thought D and A would end up together, but...there has not been any inkling of that happening since ToG. Personally, I still think Dorian deserves better than Aelin. She has ..."They were both younger and more naive back then though. I mean, Dorian originally only rescued Celaena because he was bored and wanted to annoy his father. Shows a lot about his maturity. Plus it wasn't until HoF that he started to stand up to his father. As for Aelin, back in ToG she was still spending her time one-upping herself with Kaltain! Lol! XD But she also matured during HoF. So in reality, even though, yes, Aelin treated him terribly, he also didn't really love her either. I'm still clinging to the scant hope that these two find their way back together. Then it would be the same pairing as Maas had in Queen of Glass.
I really don't know who I want Dorian to end up with now. It's so sad, he kinda has nobody. I like Chaol and Nesryn FYI. I like Aedion and Lysandra, I DEFINITELY DO NOT want Manon and Dorian, and Yrene I guess might be too similar to Sorscha I don't know! I don't really want Dorian with Aelin though, because they are related, distantly but still, and it's just... euh. I guess it wouldn't matter that much and would be kinda cool if like, they were reincarnations of Elena and Gavin, but, I just don't know. What about Dorian and Asterin? Is that an open thought? I wouldn't mind that I think that would be interesting.
Also, Grace sorry I can't see that. (The spoilers removed thing) I'm using the app and I can't open it on that.
MissBloodsucker™ (shadowraith) 06 ~Property of the CNTP~ wrote: "Stephanie wrote: "In theory, i've always thought D and A would end up together, but...there has not been any inkling of that happening since ToG. Personally, I still think Dorian deserves better th..."I really want to read Queen of Glass. I want to know Dorian and Aelin arc in that one. See them as a main couple. I'm dying to know how they will be, but... it's just a dream. *sighs*
Lexie wrote: "I really don't know who I want Dorian to end up with now. It's so sad, he kinda has nobody. I like Chaol and Nesryn FYI. I like Aedion and Lysandra, I DEFINITELY DO NOT want Manon and Dorian, and Y..."I totally agree with you in almost all ships (I love Aedion and Lysandra together and I like Chaol and Nesryn), except that I would like for Dorian to be with Aelin. They are so distantly related that this little detail doesn't bothers me at all, they only have the same ancestor Brannon (a thousand years ago link in common), after that Elena started with Gavin the Havilliard line and others sons or daughters of Brannon carried on the Galathynius line. So I can't even perceive them as really related.
My only problem with the Doraelin ship is that I really love the Rowaelin ship too. I have almost a armada of ships LOL. So it leaves our baby Dorian without anyone...I'm with you 100 percent against this Dorian and Manon pairing, that doesn't feels right to me but I would like the Dorian and Asterin one. I was in fact hoping to see Dorian meeting the witches, mainly because of Asterin, but when I read the scene it backfired to Manon. So...
We have Elide, Ansel, Yrene that are still single as far as we know, but I can't see them with Dorian. In fact as for Elide, I thought she would be with Manon, I have misinterpreted it but I thought Manon wasn't attracted to men, I actually thought that Manon wasn't attracted to anything LOL that wasn't bloodshed and Abraxos. Anyway being serious now, I thought that ladies would have more chances with Manon than guys. I was proven wrong.
So I'm waiting for a new lady to appear in TOG5 and perhaps she will be the one for my precious cinnamon roll.
Yeah I hope so too. I guess I wouldn't mind if Dorian ended up with Aelin, I don't mind either way. I just hope if it ends up being a new lady that they'll be introduced a little better and slower than Sorscha. Don't get me wrong I loved her, but I can see where people are coming from that she was kinda just filler and it was unrealistic Insta-love sort of thing. I reckon if she was introduced better, more people would have liked her more. I totally wouldn't mind Dorian and Asterin, that'd be cool. Yrene would be alright too. But not Ansel and definitely not Elide.
Dorian and Asterin?! How have I not thought of this before? Asterin would be soooo perf with him. Lexie, I know it doesn't work in the app, but you can copy this topics url and view it online. :)
I hope so too, I didn't liked Sorscha and the main reason was because I was so irritated about the insta love thing. Heir of Fire was one of my favorite books and I have practicallyno criticism towards this book, except how the relationship between Dorian and Sorscha was presented and developed and how I think Dorian main plot was decreased and underestimated in comparison with plot lines of another characters. I think like you said "if she was introduced better, more people would have liked her more", that I might be one of them.
Yeah. Maybe if she was introduced in CoM and it just developed a little slower it would have been better. I still really liked her though.
I didn't like her either but I'm glad it did happen because his relationship with her did let him grow and become a better person. Plus Sorscha death was also vital for Dorian to kinda get out of his comfort zone and start standing up to his father even more. Also a part of me hopes that Dorian and Aelin can like bond over their losses:3 maybe she can help him get over his grief and he can help her get use to the burden of the throne. One thing I am unhappy about is how the series is kinda separating the characters...I know they all have their own responsibilities but I just really want them to kinda come together. It doesn't look like its gonna happen anytime soon until like maybe the third book.
Yeah I see what you mean Alia. But I think it's also gonna mean something happens while they're separated and then they will all come ack together. I'm looking very forward to that. Plus it might make things a little more interesting.
Just wondering, if Throne of Glass was originally inspired by Cinderella. Doesn't Cinderella end up with the prince?I am fine if Aelin boards the Dorian ship or the Rowan shop. As long as it isn't the Chaol ship cos now i ship with Nesryn.
