Queen Maas' Assassins discussion
Pairings: TOG
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Celaena & Dorian ~ Pairing Discussion
Ship it! Ship it! Ship it! Ship this so hard! This relationship is gonna be anything but boring.
Spoiler for QoSThe moment CELORIAN held hands and combined powers I was like "This is right and everyone knows that! Even they feel the difference!"
Dorian is the real Ice to Aelin's Fire! You heard it here first! Lol
Stephanie wrote: "Dorian is the real Ice to Aelin's Fire! You heard it here first! Lol"
yes yes yes!!!!!!!awwwww
Doriaaan <3 though their relationship kind of seemed a bit strained and forced in ToG, Dorian will always be a second choice after Rowan. They've been through so much together.
I hate Rowan! He ruined these books for me! Doeian is too good for Aelin anyways.
Why did Rowan ruined the books for you? I'm curious
Kainat wrote: "I hate Rowan! He ruined these books for me! Doeian is too good for Aelin anyways."What, Rowan ruined the book for you ?! He is like a god to me. Was it because he got into the middle of the relationship of Dorian and Aelin, or something. I just think that Dorian and Aelin were finished at the middle of Crown of Midnight, when he said he let her go, but there still could be some hope for them (?)
"I know who her endgame was for her original endgame was for Maas' original on FictionPress for Queen of Glass and we've been told it won't be the same.
Excerpt from Interview
Have you already decided who Celaena will end up with? Did it change while you were writing the books or have you always known who it would be?
Let me start by saying that I am and have always been 100% Team Celaena. I’ve taken that approach while writing these books, and have trusted her to show me who she wants to be with, and when she wants to be with them.
I’m a firm believer in letting the story go where it needs to (instead of forcing it to cling to previous ideas), and find that my subconscious/Muse is usually right when it comes to taking things in a totally different direction than I’d originally planned. It’s part of what makes writing fun and exciting—especially when Celaena still remains a bit unpredictable even to me.
So, that means that yes, some big plans have changed. They change with every book I write, every round of revision—always for the best, always making the story so much stronger than it was before.
20613470
Also: I see this question all the time, so I just want to say once and for all: consider the Fictionpress draft another book entirely. So, so, SO little of what happens in that draft is even in this series any more, especially the ending. I made it clear when I took the story off the site in 2008 that I’d be rewriting/changing the majority of material (and with good reason, since so much of it was just me figuring out how to write a book!). So, if you are curious about who Celaena ends up with, I would not consider the FP draft a resource.
Anyway. Yes: I finally have an ending in mind—an ending that I love and have been working toward for the past few books, but how Celaena/Aelin gets there—and who she gets there with—have always been flexible.
Outlining doesn’t work for me as a writer, and I find that my creativity flows much more when I’m able to write the story as it demands to be told. So right now, a certain ending is calling to me, and I am obsessed with it and working toward it with every book—but who knows? Some major plot points will always be resolved/revealed, and those are things I have plotted for since the novellas, but the ending-ending? I’ll only find that out once I write Books 5 and 6, when I’ll learn where Celaena/Aelin takes me. Hopefully she won’t throw any curveballs (since I kinda/sorta/definitely love my current planned last line for the series)
Excerpt from Interview
Have you already decided who Celaena will end up with? Did it change while you were writing the books or have you always known who it would be?
Let me start by saying that I am and have always been 100% Team Celaena. I’ve taken that approach while writing these books, and have trusted her to show me who she wants to be with, and when she wants to be with them.
I’m a firm believer in letting the story go where it needs to (instead of forcing it to cling to previous ideas), and find that my subconscious/Muse is usually right when it comes to taking things in a totally different direction than I’d originally planned. It’s part of what makes writing fun and exciting—especially when Celaena still remains a bit unpredictable even to me.
So, that means that yes, some big plans have changed. They change with every book I write, every round of revision—always for the best, always making the story so much stronger than it was before.
20613470
Also: I see this question all the time, so I just want to say once and for all: consider the Fictionpress draft another book entirely. So, so, SO little of what happens in that draft is even in this series any more, especially the ending. I made it clear when I took the story off the site in 2008 that I’d be rewriting/changing the majority of material (and with good reason, since so much of it was just me figuring out how to write a book!). So, if you are curious about who Celaena ends up with, I would not consider the FP draft a resource.
Anyway. Yes: I finally have an ending in mind—an ending that I love and have been working toward for the past few books, but how Celaena/Aelin gets there—and who she gets there with—have always been flexible.
Outlining doesn’t work for me as a writer, and I find that my creativity flows much more when I’m able to write the story as it demands to be told. So right now, a certain ending is calling to me, and I am obsessed with it and working toward it with every book—but who knows? Some major plot points will always be resolved/revealed, and those are things I have plotted for since the novellas, but the ending-ending? I’ll only find that out once I write Books 5 and 6, when I’ll learn where Celaena/Aelin takes me. Hopefully she won’t throw any curveballs (since I kinda/sorta/definitely love my current planned last line for the series)
^When is that interview from? Was it recent?
Zully wrote: "^When is that interview from? Was it recent?"
From February 2015
and In a Youtube Interview Also Released This Year,Sarah Maas Said That Celaena Has Chosen at This Point(Referring to Queen of Shadows)
From February 2015
and In a Youtube Interview Also Released This Year,Sarah Maas Said That Celaena Has Chosen at This Point(Referring to Queen of Shadows)
I agree with whomever said Dorian is too good for Aelin. That's how I've felt ever since CoM. Chaol, as his friend has redeemed himself as a better friend to Dorian than he was before, but I still don't really think Celaena/Aelin has redeemed herself for me in the way of deserving Dorian. With QoS and Aelin not even struggling to bat a fucking eyelash over the decision to take Dorian's head off when he had the Valg prince in him, I was equally resigned to feel she doesn't deserve him in any way shape or form (friend nor lover). I've always hated the disregard she's seemed to consistently have for him in each book as a potential lover and a friend. If Manon had not written what she did around Rifthold, poor Dorian would be gone.
Anyway, I kind of hate how Dorian's story seems to have been lost in the last two books. Both Aedian and Rowan seem to have more page time than poor Dorian since CoM, abd CoM was all about Celaena and Chaol with Dorian out on the fringes, so I wasn't satisfied with his page time then either.
Clearly I'm disgruntled about a lot of things when it comes to this series. Sigh. But you know what? I'll always have Kestrel and Arin, Raff and Lia, and Shazi and Khalid, so where this series will no doubt find a way to disappoint me (it has to with all these new ppl and still two books to go), I completely trust the direction of the other series I'm currently reading. They're a form of consolation.
I agree. It feels like poor Dorian has been so disregarded. It's almost as if SJM has gotten bored with him or something. But he's such a beautiful character, he deserves better. He's been through so much and hasn't had anyone to help him, yet he was kind to everyone, despite deep inside his heart is cold, icy and lonely. I'm reading this series pretty much just because of Dorian. It is so so sad how much Dorian and his story has kind of been put aside. I feel that people have gotten bored with Dorian only bc SJM put him aside, and if she had focused more consistently on him he'd be better, but she's kind of just cast him off. Maybe QoS will prove me wrong and hopefully Dorian will have a bigger role in the last two books, but I still feel he was kind of disregarded and was not written to his full character potential. He deserves so much more. Sorry folks my loyalty to Dorian is just... Undying...
Lexie wrote: "I just thought of something else! Rowan has powers of ice and so does Dorian. Here's something; what if Aelin and Dorian are freaking CARRANAM?! We just haven't been told yet?"
What no one has said yet, is according to QoS, Dorian is the most powerful among all of them, he's just untrained. I find it fascinating that he has the most power out of the entire cast, except maybe Erawan, but even Rowan said he's never seen anything like it and he has been in the presence of Maeve. I want to read more about that: Dorian and his magic and abilities.
Lexie wrote: "I agree. It feels like poor Dorian has been so disregarded. It's almost as if SJM has gotten bored with him or something. But he's such a beautiful character, he deserves better. He's been through ..."MTE Lexie. That's exactly how I feel. I like a lot of the other characters but Dorian is my favorite. I adore him and am resentful Sarah has been trying to ruin him by not giving him any significant focus.
It's no coincidence that he hardly gets much pins on her ToG pinterest board. Grrrrr!
Important Quote from SJM recent interviewWhat I don’t tell people is that there was a second piece of music that shaped the rest of the series, and that’s the finale from Swan Lake. I’m a huge ballet fan, and when I was listening to this finale piece, I saw in my head the scene where Aelin and Dorian shatter the glass castle. It was such a powerful image with this incredible music, and I knew in that moment that was where I wanted her to go."
Is it just me or does this sound as if Celorian is meant to be?
Same Stephanie, Dorian is like my life, he has to be my absolute favourite fictional character in books that I have read. Kisses A, I sure hope so. They're meant to be together!
I hate that Aelin wanted to kill him just like that. Celaena would have wanted to fund a way to save him regardless of if she's faced the Valg and knows what they're like. Aelin didn't have a fuck. I agree that Dorian hasn't had any page time in the last two books. We found out about his magic in CoM and he was on that journey himself. Chaol and Dorian has a few lines in HoF and in QoS it felt like they were side characters. I love Dorian just as much as Chaol and I know he's crucial for the plot and will play a bigger part.
Kind of random but how do you feel about Chaol and Dorian's friendship. I love them and they're my brotp because they have each other's back. Yes friends can have arguments but I will stand by those two until the end and they care for each other so much. Sorry if it isn't that related to what we're talking about.
Zully wrote: "Kind of random but how do you feel about Chaol and Dorian's friendship. I love them and they're my brotp because they have each other's back. Yes friends can have arguments but I will stand by thos..."I like that they have made up and are back to being close friends. Honestly, their friendship was one of my favorite things from the start, so when Chaol was fucking it up in CoM and HoF, I was mad at him.
Yes their friendship is beautiful. I just read the part last night where Aelin tried to kill Dorian. "Give me one sign that you're still in there Dorian." (Later to Chaol) "Dorian is gone! He's not here anymore!" (Later in Dorian's POV) "He had tried. He had recognised that woman with the turquoise gold eyes and he had tried to fight, but the thing inside him had held firm, delighting in his struggle."
OMG! Such conflicting chapters! It's maddening! Dorian did fight Aelin! How did you not see that within him?! He did fight! I'm so mad at Aelin how did she not see that?! Poor poor Dorian, each chapter about him is so sad.
Bookworm wrote: "*cue dramatic music* What if there is ANOTHER love triangle (groan) between Dorian and Rowan?! And that would be cool if Aelin and Dorian were also Carranam, though I have a feeling that Rowan woul..."Hell yeah. I so agree with you, if Rowan wasn't in the picture after reading QOS I think that Doraelin would totally be endgame. I would completely love that. They shared a fucking POV together, that was huge and the POV was really...really intense and otherworldly too.
I was a Doraelin shipper since the begining of the series but after HOF I was so torn, then QOS came and Rowan and I was 70% Rowan and 30% Dorian...but after Rowan showed his feelings so thoroughly he got me like *I came to claim your hearts* and I was ok I'm ready to finally make a stand about my shipper heart.
But Sarah has no compassion for my poor heart and wrote that perfect scene "But they held tighter to each other, past and present and future..." Obviously my heart has no shame, and a spark of the Doraelin ship came back, but I don't wanna Rowan dead or they breaking up. Can't she have both???
Seriously, I just wanna them all to be happy and particularly Dorian after all he has been through. I think it's kinda hard to let go of this ship for me, because I can't see Dorian with anyone else than Aelin and I think the whole Dorian and Manon ship is a blasphemy, don't get me wrong Manon is cool, I only don't ship her with him. I think Dorian needs a time off the ladies to sort himself out and heal and perhaps another great character could appear in the future for him.
Rafaela wrote: "Bookworm wrote: "*cue dramatic music* What if there is ANOTHER love triangle (groan) between Dorian and Rowan?! And that would be cool if Aelin and Dorian were also Carranam, though I have a feelin..."Yeah, I think it would be not weird but unfitting if Manon and Dorian became an official ship. And Rowan has won me over heart and soul, he is a beautiful, strong and maybe just a tiny bit romantic character and I adore him <3 I too used to be a Doraelin Shipper, but in HoF my ship crumbled. Rowan did treat Aelin badly at the start of HoF, calling her "worthless", "spoiled" and worst of all "coward". I didn't hate him but I disliked him. But then around the middle/end he was perfect, and in QOS... Having that said I love Dorian too !
Rafaela wrote: "Bookworm wrote: "*cue dramatic music* What if there is ANOTHER love triangle (groan) between Dorian and Rowan?! And that would be cool if Aelin and Dorian were also Carranam, though I have a feelin..."This scene when they held each other and share their power was pretty confusing. It almost like they belong together.
"They joined hands.
So the world ended.
And the next one began.
They were infinite.
They were the beginning and the ending ; they were eternity.
[...]
But they held tighter to each other, past and present and future [...]
It wasn't the same thing with Rowan if I remember. I don't know what SJM is doing honestly. She gives us potential clues about Manon and Dorian and hot scenes between Aelin and Rowan while this scene makes us believe that Dorian and Aelin share something unique.
Mirou wrote: "This scene when they held each other and share their power was pretty confusing. It almost like they belong together."They joined hands.
So the world ended.
And the next one began.
They were infinite.
They were the beginning and the ending ; they were eternity.
[...]
But they held tighter to each other, past and present and future [...]"
Is this the old ending she plan or wrote long times agao and she forgot to change the describtion or st? Haha just kidding! But seriously, I really want to read the original one "Queen of Glass" The story of Aelin and Dorian, they might share something like this. Do you guys know anyone who have the original version? I wanna read it so bad!
I want it too.EDIT : What if we rewrite some scenes of QOS ?
Haha, I will start with their first scene when she saves Aedion, I will add two tiny little sentences :
"Aelin couldn't kill him. Because... Because, Dorian Havilliard, Heir of Adarlan, son of her ennemy, her friend now lost to a Vlag prince, is her mate. And this terrified her."
[The last sentence is just to make the scene a little bit dramatic]
Pang wrote: "Mirou wrote: "This scene when they held each other and share their power was pretty confusing. It almost like they belong together."They joined hands.
So the world ended.
And the next one began.
..."
I think it's refering to Aelin and Dorian being reincarnations of Gavin and Elena/Brannon. And Also to me it felt like it was describing what it was like to wield that much power. Dorian has ridiculously strong and raw magic so him and Aelin joining hands was like a "IT'S SO BEAUTIFUL I CAN'T EVEN SEE!" kind of thing. xD
Mirou wrote: "Rafaela wrote: "Bookworm wrote: "*cue dramatic music* What if there is ANOTHER love triangle (groan) between Dorian and Rowan?! And that would be cool if Aelin and Dorian were also Carranam, though..."I'm pretty confused. In QOS Aelin seems so strong and set on wanting Rowan. And I guess that's the direction Sarah is going off now, but there IS a few scenes where it seems as if Dorian and Aelin connected or something, like as you said Mirou, where they're holding hands: that was beautifully worded and it almost brought tears to my eyes.
But I want to know if Manon will come back to Dorian. I'm not sure he likes her, but there had to be there, even if it does seem strange.
Rowan also admitted he'd never seen anyone with Dorian's kind of power, much less the sight he and Aelin created when they'd joined hands and combined power. It was extraordinary and utterly singular. Maybe it'll take them both to defeat Erawan and Maeve. But then, Maeve, based on Rowan's assertions, is not as powerful as Dorian's (I'm deducing this). Do you guys think that's part of why they kept giving Dorian funny looks and making him feel like he was a ticking time bomb at the end? Bc they fear his power? Like, bc he's untrained, he's unstable and could wipe them out, intentionally or unintentionally?
Stephanie wrote: "Rowan also admitted he'd never seen anyone with Dorian's kind of power, much less the sight he and Aelin created when they'd joined hands and combined power. It was extraordinary and utterly singul..."I also remembered when Aelin said that Rowan bowed his head to Dorian deeper than she expected. There is obviously some respect toward Dorian and yes, maybe some fear. Yep, after this dmonstration of power, Dorian will be needed to defeat Erawan.
Stephanie wrote: "Rowan also admitted he'd never seen anyone with Dorian's kind of power, much less the sight he and Aelin created when they'd joined hands and combined power. It was extraordinary and utterly singul..."You could be right about the ticking bomb thing. Even Rowan fears or is a little wary of Dorian's power, especially when he and Aelin joined hands and made it even stronger. And he's been through a lot: His father being the most evil man in Adarlan, discovering magic, the hound, Sorshca's beheading and then the collar being clamped on his neck and being made endure those torturous things the Valg prince made him see. Maybe that's why people are giving him weird looks ? He's survived the Valg prince and as you said, the whole power thing (?)
Bookworm, there is also the trauma that comes from killing your parent. No matter how much evil and horrible things his father has done to him, as a human Dorian, somewhere inside himself, still desired his father's love and approval and wished his father was a better man. Killing your parent is not an easy thing to do. That will leave a permanent scar. It's why, to a degree, Aelin was so hurt by Arrobyn's final deed of attempting to enslave her. His final betrayal devastated her, and he wasn't even her real dad and he's treated her like poop.
Mirou wrote: "Rafaela wrote: "Bookworm wrote: "*cue dramatic music* What if there is ANOTHER love triangle (groan) between Dorian and Rowan?! And that would be cool if Aelin and Dorian were also Carranam, though..."I'm totally with you in this confusion. It could be like Lydia said a reference to Gavin and Elena/Brannon and a metaphorical explanation of the power they wield both magical as the power of decision of the fates of their respective nations and hell of the world. I could settle in that...but
“But they held tighter to each other, past and present and future; flickering between an ancient hall in a mountain castle perched above Orynth, a bridge suspended between glass towers, and another place, perfect and strange, where they had been crafted from stardust and light. A wall of night knocked them back. But they could not be contained. The darkness paused for breath. They erupted.”
WHYYYYYY...WHYYY??? Why bring at all their meeting in Orynth and a future where they were crafted from stardust and light? I mean this is more than beautiful and it left me in awe and a lot of tears. Like I wasn't at all expecting this.
She would have shot me dead if she had mentioned their unknown encounter in the assassin and the underworld, but align all their shared story...
Could be nothing but it really stands out screaming and beckoning in front of my eyes.
And other questions: Will they became immortal? That is what a get from stardust and light...they are like newborn Gods, Dorian has raw magic and Aelin with the solstice managed to amplify her powers. Dorian powers were also amplified? Are they carrranam? Can you have more than one carranam?
I mean I really think that Sarah has set Rowaelin and shipped it in QOS. But those united POVS of Aelin and Dorian...I can't handle the feels.
They're the first united POVS, if I recall right from the series
Rafaela wrote: "Mirou wrote: "Rafaela wrote: "Bookworm wrote: "*cue dramatic music* What if there is ANOTHER love triangle (groan) between Dorian and Rowan?! And that would be cool if Aelin and Dorian were also Ca..."I really really REALLY hope this is explained in the next book...Like were they traveling through time in that moment? Were they seeing memories of another life? Were they seeing their own memories when they were children? Were they seeing the future of Godhood or Immortality being granted to them? OMG WHAT WAS IT!!?!? It was so amazing. I really feel like the "All the players of the unfinished game have returned" line is very important. It's what keeps me thinking that this is Elena, Gavin and Erawan all over again. Dorian became SO INTERESTING at the end of QoS and I think his PoV is my most anticipated in the next book. There are so many questions about him.....T_T
Stephanie wrote: "Bookworm, there is also the trauma that comes from killing your parent. No matter how much evil and horrible things his father has done to him, as a human Dorian, somewhere inside himself, still de..."You're so right. Dorian is still human, he will feel all those natural feelings that come along if you do something like that. Good point.
Lydia wrote: "Rafaela wrote: "Mirou wrote: "Rafaela wrote: "Bookworm wrote: "*cue dramatic music* What if there is ANOTHER love triangle (groan) between Dorian and Rowan?! And that would be cool if Aelin and Dor..."Every time Dorian's POV came up in QoS, I was like yes yes yes! Dorian has to be one of my most favourite and interesting characters in the whole series (with the exception of Aelin). He just seems so mysterious now, I want to know of Aelin will come back for him.
Lydia, the visions they were seeing are their past, present, and future together: The past, speaks about when A&D first met in Orynth, when she said she'd be his friend and said he ate like a proper lady, their present was referencing the bridge scene we just read when she'd tried to get him to come back and they began this joining of their powers. The future that's spoken about it obviously what is still left to come. It's such a beautiful thing to read about, what they will share, whatever it meant, in the future (near future I hope).
While I agree somewhat that the line about the players being on the board again, I don't think it means they are reenacting as their reincarnate souls exactly. Also, why do ppl bring up Brannon all the time? Elena was Brannon's daughter, the first princess of Terrasen, wife and Queen of, Gavin, the first King of Adarlan.
So I suppose Gavin and Elena (a half bred fae just like Aelin), in this present, are Dorian and Aelin metaphorically. Is that what we're saying?
Also, when do you guys think Dorian will be given the sword that is rightfully his, Damaris? I want to see him use it!!!
Please excuse all my Fuoss. I'm replying from my phone and it's terrible. Even when I correct an autocorrect problem, they sometimes still autocorrect it to something else I didn't intend l.
Stephanie wrote: "Please excuse all my Fuoss. I'm replying from my phone and it's terrible. Even when I correct an autocorrect problem, they sometimes still autocorrect it to something else I didn't intend l."I hate autocorrect.
Stephanie wrote: "Also, when do you guys think Dorian will be given the sword that is rightfully his, Damaris? I want to see him use it!!!"Right...the swords they change owners so many times in a little space of time that occasionally I don't know which one of them is in currently possession of a certain character.
Sword of Orynth - Aedion -> Aelin -> Aedion -> Aelin
Damaris - Aelin -> Chaol -> Aedion
Golfryn (?? it's that the name?) - Aelin
Am I right?
"And another place, perfect and strange, where they had been crafted from stardust and light." @Stephanie, do you think this is the part of the sentence that decribes their futur ? Makes me wonder ...
@Rafaela, sorry, I didn't give much attention to the swords
Lydia wrote: "Rafaela wrote: "Mirou wrote: "Rafaela wrote: "Bookworm wrote: "*cue dramatic music* What if there is ANOTHER love triangle (groan) between Dorian and Rowan?! And that would be cool if Aelin and Dor..."He had a really mysterious vibe at the end. And he will be alone...again. His POV is my most anticipated in the next book too. I sense he's gonna break real deep in order to heal like Aelin in HOF. *feels* *avalanche of feels*
"All the players of the unfinished game have returned", I had totally forgotten about that quote and I think that you're right, it's like a chess game and they need to make sure that their checkmate involves cast out Erawan once and for all of their world
I would not mind another love triangle only if Dorian gets the girl in the end though.....Imagine a face off between Rowan and Dorian...The world might explode.
Yes, I don't think Dorian can go through anymore bad things happening to him... Especially with girls *cough* Sorscha *cough* It would be very satisfying to see Rowan and Dorian have a showdown. Lol, everyone would be definetely dead then XD
Bookworm wrote: "Yes, I don't think Dorian can go through anymore bad things happening to him... Especially with girls *cough* Sorscha *cough* It would be very satisfying to see Rowan and Dorian have a showdown. L..."
Lol..But if Dorian can control his powers he will win... and everyone will be dead.
Yeah, if Dorian won he wouldn't have a kingdom to rule over then. The whole world would probably go bam because of his awesomeness.
Rafaela wrote: "Lydia wrote: "Rafaela wrote: "Mirou wrote: "Rafaela wrote: "Bookworm wrote: "*cue dramatic music* What if there is ANOTHER love triangle (groan) between Dorian and Rowan?! And that would be cool if..."Dorian having less PoV hasn't bothered me too much but we NEED to see what is going on with him in the next 2 books. His story is SO FREAKIN' INTERESTING right now and his character looks to be developing massively in a very good direction.
@Stephanie Yeeess I was thinking that ToG has been hinting up until now and in QoS it's said again, that Elena = Aelin and Gavin = Dorian. I really hope we see them together (in any way really) in the next 2 books. I think they will need to combine their power to defeat Erawan, and freakin' Elena needs to show up and tell Aelin WHY they imprisoned Erawan instead of killing him! There has to be a way to banish him or something.
I did notice that too and for a moment, I tought that they mated but sadly it didn't happen. But I loved this scene in the book, my favourite scene actually