Miévillians discussion
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SECTION 11: Chapter 29 [Coda]
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Annie, as per post 50, the object was foreshadowed in the part of the book dealt with in Section 2. Or have I misunderstood?
I am suggesting that the device has additional qualities that answer. the questions of how Bowden suspends himself and why American Corporations would also want bits of artifacts.
and yes, youu understand rightly.
Annie, you are raising some really interesting ideas here, but I'm not sure whether I've grasped them yet.Are you talking about some sort of physical suspension and therefore a physical suspension device, which is why commerce wants access to it?
I have interpreted this passage as a suspension of the laws of either B or UQ in a no-man's land or lawless territory in between (Orciny), where perhaps nobody there needs to or does obey any laws.
Thus, it is a metaphorical suspension, not a physical one.
Bowen thought he could walk his way along this territory until he found the border with a third country and escaped the law of B, UQ and the Breach.
Commerce wants the device, one, because it represents the past, and if you control the past, you control the present and the future, and second, because it is still not known what this device can do, and as you suggest there might be some benefit in solving its riddle.
I have been way off in my analysis of Borlu and Corwi's relationship, however, page 296-297 have Borlu holding out his hand, Corwi gripping it and "we met each other's gaze a moment". Then, "it was really dawn at last".If my previous speculation wallowed in the ridiculous, are these passages, in contrast, sublime?
Good find, Ian. However, I think those passages just reflect a close bond, with a frisson of something that could, but almost certainly won't, ever happen.
Haha. I think I'm going to have to write my own sequel. Am I the only romanticist here?
Probably. I don't think Mieville is for lovers of sentimental romance. ;)
Cecily wrote: "Probably. I don't think Mieville is for lovers of sentimental romance. ;)"I guess I just wasn't made for these times.
Cecily wrote: "Probably. I don't think Mieville is for lovers of sentimental romance. ;)"Hey, he wants to write a novel in every genre - he's going to have to write a sentimental romance one of these days! Maybe Ian can start a movement to have it be a sequel to The City & The City!
Wasn't PSS part sentimental romance?
Regarding the way that Bowen walked- i think what he managed to do, was to dress and then walk and hold himself in such a way, that culturally/ethnically, one could not identify him as being either from Beszl or Ul Qoma. Remember that people have small social codes that helps us identify from which social stratum or nationality we derive. (Britons shake hands, Italians embrace and kiss on he cheek, American women walk with a sort of awkward waddle that rocks the entire body, Japanese women make small steps but hold their head and shoulders still, Latin women swing their hips, etc etc.)Somewhere (can't remember which page) the book makes mention of the fact that Bowden has studied both cultures so well that he can pull off walking like neither of them. I assume the "walking" that is mentioned includes entire body-language.
Traveller wrote: "Regarding the way that Bowen walked- i think what he managed to do, was to dress and then walk and hold himself in such a way, that culturally/ethnically, one could not identify him as being either..."I think you're right.
"American women walk with a sort of awkward waddle that rocks the entire body,"
That's an odd way to say "sway gracefully" :)
Derek wrote: "That's an odd way to say "sway gracefully" :).."Heh, sure, sure, but seriously, i always found the way American women walk .. sort of- well not graceful compared to, for instance..- well, how can i put it- they don't sway their hips, so, it's - well, let's be nice and just say that in different areas of the world, especially the women seem to walk in a different way.
I SUSPECT (though i have no idea how close to the truth my suspicion might be) that perhaps in some cultures, women feel rather inhibited about swaying their hips. *shrug* - and i know that with the Japanese, (and i'm not Japanese, so the idea took a bit of getting used to for me) not bobbing up and down is considered very graceful; but personally i enjoy seeing people with a jaunty step.
My own walking style (before i broke my leg two months ago, that is) is(was, boo-hoo) sort of quite a fast walk, but i have no idea how much i 'bob' or 'sway' hehehe...
I imagine you gliding, perhaps even flowing, like a stream between rocks, as it falls gradually, but inevitably, towards the ocean.
There's a bit of a thing about gait, isn't there? There are also several mentions of the weird and authoritative walk of Breach.
Just like a pimp's walk.
Well, theoretically, we are coming to the end of our little adventure together.Given the ease of reading the novel, many of us finished some time ago, and even posted links to our reviews.
I note that Andrea and Derek have short, old reviews that are still worth looking at and liking. Any updates in the wind?
Traveller, do you have a review in you? This could be a good one to crash through your reviewer's block (I hesitate to say your writer's block, because you still have a marked ability to write in posts).
I'm not sure whether we should try to punctuate the end of our read in any way. Any ideas?
Pending a response, I just wanted to thank everybody who joined in and contributed so well.
The beauty of the reading experience was that the novel was deceptively simple, yet collectively we found so much that was both sophisticated and rewarding.
It's nice to discover that, like a home, something that is superficially appealing is even nicer on the inside.
Thanks to you all for a wonderful six weeks of my life.
Ian wrote: "I note that Andrea and Derek have short, old reviews that are still worth looking at and liking."'coz I only do short reviews. I'm far too intimidated to try anything like most of the other folks here!
Don't be intimidated, Derek (but don't feel pressured to write a review if you don't want to). As one who sometimes writes over-long reviews, I notice that short reviews can say far more than my own. Size doesn't matter.
Oh sure. People always say that to those who are size-challenged...
Derek wrote: "Oh sure. People always say that to those who are size-challenged..."Ok, by now we know that Derek is (quite) hairy, and we can even start making other inferences, but what they are, i won't say.
Thanks Ian, for leading this discussion for us. I'm glad i jumped in when i did with this one- so thanks for pulling us along!
My review will have to wait for in about 2 or even 3 weeks time. I like my reads to stew for a looong time in the old noggin, so i can spew out that review properly cooked~ XD
While updating my library today, I came across the short story collection Needle In A Timestack by Robert Silverberg. It had this fascinating blurb for one of the stories:"TO SEE THE INVISIBLE MAN is a crime itself punishable by invisibility in a society where social deviants are sentenced to be totally ignored by their fellow men."
I don't remember the book at all, so now I have to read it to see how similar it is to unseeing in Besźel/Ul Qoma
Seeing an invisible man would catch you unawares?
Derek wrote: "While updating my library today, I came across the short story collection Needle In A Timestack by Robert Silverberg. It had this fascinating blurb for one of the stories:"TO SEE THE INVISIBLE MA..."
Sounds interesting and quite close to the concept of unseeing in TC&TC indeed, Derek!
So, the story has it that for lesser offences to the criminal code, the convicted person is sentenced to invisibility for a period of up to five years. The central character notes that offenders sentenced to prison have benefits that the lesser offenders don't have (there are doctors for people in prison - not for the Invisible).You would expect that the Invisibles would form their own society, and so we might have something like the Besźel/Ul Qoma split, but noticing Invisibles is, itself, a crime punishable by invisibility - and it's applied to everybody, including Invisibles.
Unlike TC&TC, there's nothing subtle about recognizing Invisibles - they have luminescent tattoos on their foreheads. They survive by theft from victims who are can only prevent them by committing a crime themselves - what would be Breach in TC&TC.
The society has its Breach-enforcement-analog - in this case, robotic policeman, who are able to watch both the visible and invisible, and take action when anybody sees an Invisible.
Well, if you think about it, being totally ignored is probably one of the worst punishments that you can inflict on anyone, and rings a bit of the classroom punishment of "Dunce" or "go stand in the corner" or "go to your room!" and the prison punishment of solitary confinement.However, being in full view of everyone but still being totally ignored, would arguably probably hurt more (depending on the person) than being put into solitary confinement.
It sounds like an interesting book. Will you be reviewing it?
Traveller wrote: "Well, if you think about it, being totally ignored is probably one of the worst punishments that you can inflict on anyone, and rings a bit of the classroom punishment of "Dunce" or "go stand in th..."Absolutely - which is why the unnamed central character comments about the fact that "more serious" criminals can get medical treatment - obviously, he's thinking that he's been given a sentence that could only exceeded by an even longer period of invisibility.
I've found Silverberg very hit & miss, so this book will likely sit on my desk until I accept that I am never going to read the rest of the stories :-)
Borlu realizes that the object was the murder weapon that killed Mahalia. He notices that "the thing's handle, that (Bowen) hed, that pointed towards him, ended in an ugly sharp spike." Bowen repestedly wags the object around while saying "I wouldn't call it a gun." Which got me wondering what it might be. Since the most remarkable thing he is doing is walking suspended in space, I assumed his ugly clicking artifact with a sharp spike was helping him create the separate space he was in. If it was, I can see why greedy American Corporations would like to find one of their own.
Bowen confesses or brags about his role behind the scenes in all aspects of Mahalia and Yolanda's murders. Bourlu convinces Bowen that the only interesting place left to him is Breach and Bowen complies. As Bowen surrendered "He held out that heavy weapon thing to me and (Borlu) took it. It rattled. the bulb full of gears, the old clockworks that had cut Mahalia's head when the metal burst."
It is a murder weapon but perhaps a great deal more if it can divide and open space. Just imagine what fun our national security agencies would have dividing up people,boundaries and land. Its a frightening thought that I think CM meant to leave us with.