Miévillians discussion
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The City & the City
The City & The City Discussion
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SECTION 4: Chapters 10-11 [End of Part I]
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Here in this section enters a common thread in hard-boiled detective stories - the Conspiracy of Powers or Persons Unknown. The two detectives keep their spirits up and doggedly try to get to the Truth by making Secret Plans to support each other Against the Odds. Love it! God the man writes well, this is classic hard-boiled police procedural etc, and the setting of the fractured cities doesn't detract at all, it all flows so naturally.
I see now why I love this book so much, my two favourite genres, sci-fi and whodunnit, rolled seamlessly together.
I don't see Corwi as a Watson, wrong genre, she is a police partner with all that entails and implies.
Can't wait to get to Ul Qoma.
I suspect there's a larger player behind the Oversight' s change of plans. After all, this keeps the investigators in plain sight where t hey can be observed and controlled. Maybe Syder and TC are helpful to the larger concern.
After would have access to the traffic records and boarder tapes.
Damon this kindle auto correct! I mean S y d e r !
Lol you prolly meant damn...
her brain is frozen , poor thing
Section 8, not section 4!!!
lol I think you gonna have to delete this chitter chatter. Its seriously off topic lol
Andrea wrote: "lol I think you gonna have to delete this chitter chatter. Its seriously off topic lol"I can't be bothered setting up a "seriously off topic lol" folder, so it remains here.
Andrea wrote: "Here in this section enters a common thread in hard-boiled detective stories - the Conspiracy of Powers or Persons Unknown. The two detectives keep their spirits up and doggedly try to get to the T..."Yeah. Hard-boiled detective stories all appear simple in the beginning, then there's a detail that raises an eyebrow and then another, like a crossword puzzle ... it's why I love both. I've tried to think hard about what makes this my favorite too, beyond the good mix of genres, and it's probably the character of Borlu. He's a wise-cracking everyman - we all feel like him, or feel like we want to be him at times: On the edge, trying to keep it simple but having to do something difficult to make things right, like he wants to leave it alone and hand it to Breach but if he did he really couldn't sleep at night.
And I didn't get the feeling Corwi was Watson either. She's smart, cool and like a profiler, so I think of her as, well, not quite his conscience, but the person that roots him in his city. In a way, I think she keeps him from breaching in his mind.
By the way, sorry I missed most of the good conversations in the last week or so ... work interfered, and they would not let me breach. :) Just gonna start here and move forward.
Allen wrote: " She's smart, cool and like a profiler, so I think of her as, well, not quite his conscience, but the person that roots him in his city."My theory about that has already been blown out of the water.
Ian wrote: "Allen wrote: " She's smart, cool and like a profiler, so I think of her as, well, not quite his conscience, but the person that roots him in his city."My theory about that has already been blown ..."
I must not remember something. Good thing I'm re-reading huh?
I think you just need to be more familiar with the Australian vernacular.
@Allen: I love Borlu too. He is the guy who has to make an algorithmic decision at every point, or not act which is s decision in itself, in a situation which is very much grey and poorly understood. He has to trust his value system and his instincts. So very much hardboiled.
To me Corwi is the perfect foil for Borlu-- she asks the questions his alter-ego might have asked.A sort of Yin-yang working in synergy -- i must admit that i did wonder about the bit where Borlu calls "the two women he was seeing." What does the fact that he is seeing two women, and their occupations and reactions tell us about Borlu?
..but i haven't finished the book yet- maybe i should do that first and then discuss!
Don't hold back until you finish the book. That would defeat the purpose of having sections for the discussion.Can you remember whether the Watson analogy actually came from CM/Borlu?
Do you think that the fact that there are two women (apart from Corwi) is actually a device to avoid commitment to any one woman?
Once again, is there a positive "dialectic" in this foil/alter ego/Yin-Yang relationship?
At this stage of the book, do you have any predictions about where CM might take that relationship?
Or is it purely functional?
I just checked and it's Borlu's boss, Gadlem, who sarcastically mentioned "sauntering over there with your own Watson".
Borlu and his two women: I think its purely for sex, I see him "married" to his work for the city. He loves his city and is fiercely loyal to it. I don't think Corwi is his "Watson" at all, and the remark was meant to be an insult, more peerhaps that Gadlem thinks Borlu fancies himself as a Sherlock - ie independent of authority, a great mystery solver.
I never thought at this stage of the book that the Borlu/Corwi thing was going to get personal and intimate and that he would have any different relationship to her than he would have to a male partner. It's more than a "functional" relationship however, as in all police procedurals, the "partner" dynamic is one of great trust and commitment, probably more so than many relationships based on sexual interaction. Each of their very lives is dependent on relying and trusting on the other. Split second decisions made in the field could result in life or death for one or both of them. It's so much more than a purely business relationship, and so much more than a purely sexual one as well.
As I say elsewhere, I totally misconstrued some passages of the novel that are relevant to this issue. This was a re-read for me and I only skimmed it in order to write the notes. How embarrassing :(My recollection of this relationship is that they had had some previous contact, but Borlu asked Gadlem if he could use Corwi for this particular case.
I accept that life and death issues can be relevant to this type of relationship generally, especially on the beat, but here the crime had already been committed and it was a retrospective forensic investigation.
They were a good fit.
(view spoiler)
Traveller wrote: "To me Corwi is the perfect foil for Borlu-- she asks the questions his alter-ego might have asked.A sort of Yin-yang working in synergy -- i must admit that i did wonder about the bit where Borlu..."
Yes! A foil, a foil, my kingdom for a foil ...
On the two women he was seeing, for some reason I thought they were very different culturally, similar to how the two cities are different, and that set up a mental conflict that I could relate to. Like how he indulges in Ul Qoman food from time to time at that cafe. I mean, here I am in rural mid-America where I've always lived but I love middle eastern food, learning of other cultures, dream of living in New York City, Greece, Turkey even Australia :) I've always wanted to look at trains out my window ... But I'll probably never do it, unless I'm shoved into it.
Hey, i love your thoughts there, Allen! Re the two women: Very interesting idea, yes: One a journalist (progressive) and one a historian ; more conservative? The journalist would be Besz, and the historian Ul Qoman?
Very interesting, both of you. The two women effectively place Borlu in the middle of the Cleavage.
Ian wrote: "Very interesting, both of you. The two women effectively place Borlu in the middle of the Cleavage."In more ways than one huh? Sorry. But yeah, and then you think when he said if he was a student of the cleavage he still would not know, maybe he's more torn on what he believes than we think?
1. Oversight Committee refuses to hand case to the Breach. No stated reason.
2. Video of CCTV footage of van going through Copula Hall legally. No breach.
3. UQ wants international investigation including Borlu.
4. Corwi as Borlu's Watson.
5. Representative Seydr phoned about TC meeting.
6. Borlu gets a copy of Between the City and the City.
7. Re-investigate owner of van.
8. AQD (Any Qualified Driver) Visa for van. Must never be left unguarded in vehicle.
9. Investigate other stolen vans. Data mining. "Which of us is the canary?"
10. Sequence of vans. Access to arrest records.
11. Borlu has to go to UQ alone without Corwi.