Miévillians discussion
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The City & the City
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SECTION 3: Chapters 7-9
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Ian wrote: "...See what happens when you type "fracturedcity.org" into a search box..."First thing I did after I saw it. I was surprised and disappointed. What a lost opportunity. On the other hand, I like the self-referential conceit of Borlu reading "Between the City and the City".
I like some of the wordplay, and although "grosstopically" (and variants) is almost overused, I particularly like "topolganger" - though the latter possibly comes under the next section (not sure).
It was getting kinda lonely in here before you arrived, Cecily.
(Waves to Ian)Cecily wrote: "...I like some of the wordplay, ..."
Oh, and also the way the term Cleavage hooks into both meanings of the word in ordinary English, "Whichever theory you subscribe to on Cleavage, split or convergence".
Haha. Damn, I wish I'd picked that one up. It sounds like a debate about push up bras!
hello {waves}I loved the 99 Luftbalons (bioth then and in the book) but what struck me about this section was that both Tyador and his counterpart were insulted by the insinuation that the city was split. ie no thought that it ever was or would be, one city.
Tyador is so compliant in his politics, such a follower of the law. This is shown again in his observations of the Gearys. He has had his little digressions eg reading banned books, but he seems essentially supportive of the staus quo.
I got the impression Borlu had been reprimanded for non-conformist behaviour before?
hmm...can't specifically remember, I'm sure you must be correct. Let me re-re-read...
Andrea wrote: "...Tyador is so compliant in his politics, such a follower of the law. This is shown again in his observations of the Gearys. He has had his little digressions eg reading banned books, but he seems essentially supportive of the staus quo. "Ian wrote: "I got the impression Borlu had been reprimanded for non-conformist behaviour before?"
I certainly read Borlu as the stereotypical cop who bends the rules to solve the crime - however, that doesn't necessarily contradict the possibility of him being compliant in his politics, or even the law in the bigger sense (it's only the details he flouts).
Exactly what she said - cant find anything where he questions the schism. However any self respecting hard boiled detective will always rebel in some way against authority making stupid decisions. Its part of the genre.
He does like to gaze into Ul Quoma trains as they pass by and follows suspicious characters with his eyes across the breach,"without looking".
True - in some respects he does skate the edge
Nice analogy. I thought of the Breach as a wave that Borlu surfed on a board, hoping he wouldn't be dumped.
I dont want to spoil the story fot the others, but oh yes, thats a wonderful metaphor. He is so sure he can surf safely, close to the edge.
Andrea wrote: "He is so sure he can surf safely, close to the edge."But he's not unique in that. There are many mentions of other people doing likewise, sometimes apparently trivial minor incidents and characters, and sometimes not.
Yes this is true, but he intrinsically believes in the paradigm. I really like him as a person.
As in PSS, our "hero" comes with a few flaws, as do we, well, at least me.
Ian wrote: "As in PSS, our "hero" comes with a few flaws, as do we, well, at least me."I agree, but is there any decent book that has a hero without any flaws? ;)
Cecily wrote: "I agree, but is there any decent book that has a hero without any flaws? ;)"You'll have to wait for my autobiography.
Cecily wrote: "Ian wrote: "...See what happens when you type "fracturedcity.org" into a search box..."First thing I did after I saw it. I was surprised and disappointed. What a lost opportunity. On the other ha..."
I actually couldn't help wondering if Random House paid CM a bit extra for that link...:P
Traveller wrote: "I actually couldn't help wondering if Random House paid CM a bit extra for that link...:P "If they did, I don't think they would have got their money's worth.
I actually felt cheated when I got there.
There was so much potential to build a world around the book, and they took advantage of none of it.
1. Mahalia Geary's parents arrive from the US. They call her May. They want to go to UQ.
2. Drinks bad coffee from Starbucks.
Is this a bad coffee and cop trope?
3. Corwi and "99 Luft Balloons"
4. Peripheral mention of seeing and unseeing.
5. Ul Qoma and Beszel and the Breach.
How do you feel so far about how this difference has been introduced, explained and pursued stylistically?
6. Geary's know about Mahalia's interest in third city of Orciny. "It sounds like that Orciny was like the Breach."
7. "Folk tale...secret."
8. True Citizens (Beszel), First (Qoma) cf. Unificationists (Besz nats, Ul Qoma Nats, anti-Nats)
9. Syedr
10. Professor Isabelle Nancy, Toronto
11. Bol Ye'an's an old dig, couple of millennia old, "root stuff"
12. Mahalia was interested in Foucault and Baudrillard (and Zizek?), name of her paper "A Hermeneutics of Identity"
13. Alternative theories of Cleavage, split or convergence
14. David Bowden and "Bowdenites", crackpot, wrote "Between the City and the City" in 1975, "a kind of ur-myth", a secret and a cover-up (fracturedcity.org, the main site for "the kooks of dopplurbanology")
See what happens when you type "fracturedcity.org" into a search box
15. Mahalia needed to "get her hands on the actual objects"
16. magic powers?
17. Does this part of the book remind you of Don DeLillo's "The Names"?
18. "Most vermin are interstitial." shy cold-weather lizards.
19. Mr Geary disappears and is apprehended and deported by the Breach ("my husband was going to investigate")("he had blundered out of a crosshatching and into an alter area")
20. visit to the True Citizens, Harkad Gosz, barrister turns up after a call
21. lesson in consequences of denigration
22. Was Mahalia's thesis a ruse, written under false pretences?
23. Ends with more bad American coffee. "I don't care."