Trigger Warnings for Monthly Picks - Yay or Nay?

[Kat]

Good afternoon everyone!

I've been thinking about this since the beginning of the month and thought it would be a good discussion to have separately from this month's books.

QUESTION:
Do you think we should have trigger warnings for our book picks? If yes, what should fall under these warnings? If no, why not?

From my own personal standpoint, I think trigger warnings are good. I cannot stand sexual violence in the media I consume for entertainment (books, movies, television, games, any of it). I actively avoid it because it is not remotely comfortable or entertaining for me.

I was (literally) sickened by the graphic dubious consent scene in In Bed with a Highlander, and have avoided Outlander completely after seeing reviews and warnings from others.

SO! I would (obviously) vote yes for trigger warnings where needed in the future and here's my small list of things that might fall under that umbrella:

sexual violence
eating disorders
self-harm
drug abuse
graphic violence

Now, I do want to take a second to clarify that I have no problem at all with bdsm or other kinks that might not be my personal tastes, so long as it's between two consenting adults.

I also don't want anyone to feel like I'm bagging on them for loving these books! Not at all! I just think it would be lovely to allow readers with sensitive subjects to be forewarned so they can decide for themselves if a book is too far out of their comfort zone or not.

[Vicky]

I'm going to say no.

Before I explain why, I want to start by saying that while I'm probably one of the more boisterous ones when it comes to "give the guy a second chance," I respect that different readers have different reactions to certain issues and I respect their desire to be forewarned of anything that might be uncomfortable them.

If someone who has previously read the book feels that there are strong themes that might upset readers, they should feel more than welcome to post a trigger warning. I would suggest it be done as a separate thread so that readers avoiding the spoiler-y discussion thread will have their warning, but also ask that the title of the thread not contain the specific issues in question so that readers with large comfort zones do not have to worry about being spoiled. I'll even volunteer to lock such threads upon request so that they don't attract any unsavory discussion.


HOWEVER, I don't think we should ask Felicia & Co. to provide an "official" trigger warning for each book.

Trigger warnings are highly subjective and even looking just at "sexual violence" there is a wide range of situations that could (or could not) discomfit readers. For some readers, consensual BSDM may be a trigger under sexual violence. Some readers may be comfortable reading about heterosexual rape, but not comfortable with rape in a homosexual context.

I know that I would feel a lot of pressure if put into a situation where I had to provide such a warning based on the comfort zone of even a small number of readers. I can only imagine the pressure for having to provide such a warning to thousands of people. I think it's a lot to ask of them to pre-screen each book for any potential discomfiting situations.

[Nik]

No, the girls would have to read every book before we did, to properly label each trigger.
Your ok with BDSM but many people are not, this would have to be a trigger as it is going to be confronting to some people.
The great thing about goodreads is that you can read other peoples reviews before you start a book. Check for your triggers, if something upsets you it will have upset someone else before.

[Tegan]

I think it would be particularly difficult to post properly informing trigger warnings without spoilers or at least an explanation of the context which can be the same thing.

An example that is very recent for me is a book club I joined has Fledgeling by Octavia Butler as one of the picks, and they listed the trigger warnings of Pedophila & Coercion.

http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/60...

That leaves out so much about the book, and the "pedophilia" in question involves a 'vampire' (she was born and grows, was the result of genetic experimentation to have darker skin therefore able to withstand the sun better than others) who is 53 years old but has a very young body (and the man who is involved is incredibly concerned about the fact that she's so young appearing and has trouble dealing with it). If I hadn't read the book before I'm not sure I would have read it, based on that trigger warning. I would have missed out on a very interesting book, and an amazing author (she is in several ways a landmark author).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Octavia_...

[Jane]

I would say no also, that puts way to much pressure on the girls, they would have to trigger warn for so many things it would be too much. I have never just bought the months book pick straight away without first having read the back cover of the book and also reviews on here and on amazon.co.uk, so you should be able to gain a reasonable idea as to whether you yourself are going to be comfortable with reading the books pick for that month.
Exploring new genres and books to me is a Journey with risks and chances sometimes you just have to go for it, sometimes you may find you hate the book or something upsets you so you leave the book alone or you may begin a book that you aren't sure about reading and then find yourself on an amazing journey through a book that you just cant put down - that happened to me with kushiels dart I wasnt comfortable with the story at the beginning of the book but stuck with it and soon began to understand the world and fell in love with it and the two main characters and cant wait to find out whats happening with them in the second book :)

[Emy]

I'd say no based on agreement with Vicky - My trigger is not your trigger, and vice versa. Like some others I read reviews of this month's books and decided they weren't for me, but I prefer to make my own decisions.

As an aside, I personally find that when someone posts 'trigger warnings' I end up feeling that I am being told whether or not I SHOULD like something, which makes me feel a bit infantilised... Perhaps that's just my oddity though! :)

[Ender]

We could cut the ladies out of it so 1) they don't have to read the books beforehand and 2) no one is spoiled when watching the show.

It could be added to the first post of the discussion thread for the book in spoiler tags. It could be added by reader suggestion after...perhaps the first week...when a large number of readers have already participated in the thread and offered suggestions about what the tag(s) should be. That way, Vicky doesn't have to figure out the tag on her own and isn't responsible for it being correct or not. She just types it. It's our fault if it's not right. :)

If you want/need to know in advance, then you just need to click the spoiler. If you don't want to know, then you can ignore it.

I think we should respect those individuals who have to be more careful than others. Even if it just helps one person decide if they should read the book or not, I feel like it would be worth it. I wouldn't want anyone to fee left out.

[Vicky]

I don't really want to take that much responsibility in this. I don't often finish (or even start) the books as early in the month as this and don't read the discussion threads at all until I read them.

I think it will be better to start a separate thread for warnings if warranted, that way it's highly accessible and no one needs to be spoiled.

I also don't necessarily think that the topic of trigger warnings needs to be discussed in the book discussion thread. If someone feels their might be content enough to warrant a warning, it should be a fact and not a discussion. I think a lot of times when we find controversial topics in books, the differing viewpoints have a tendency to get out of hand and people come out being offended. Not that these topics aren't worth discussing, but I think they have a tendency to drown out other topics of discussion that might be interesting.

[Hannah]

I think it's our own responsibility to research the books for 'triggers.' I mean, everything we read will have a trigger for someone. It's just common sense to research a book a bit before you purchase it. :)

[Julie]

I'd say no. The ladies shouldn't have to figure out what every possible trigger would be. Just go read reviews yourself and do a bit of research on your own to figure out whether or not a book will be for you. There are plenty of books that I have read where something has made me a bit uncomfortable or where I had to skim a few scenes, but for the most part I'm still glad I've read the books in the end. In the end you have to decide for yourself whether or not you're going to read a particular book.

[Dajinxed1]

No, because every book would warrant one due to the fact that everyone has a different trigger and as seen on the Outlander threads one scene can be seen in multiple ways.

My personal thought is that you could miss a truly great reading experience because a scene might make you uncomfortable when the rest of the story is all aces.

I have big issues with scenes about drug use, self harm, and suicide but that doesn't stop me from reading a book that has those scenes in it. I may skim that paragraph/page but I won't stop reading.

How do you expect to grow if you don't step out of your comfort zone? How best to dull your issues but to be exposed to them?

My own opinion.

[Laura]

No.
I agree with everything Vicky, Nicole, Tegan, Jane, Emy, Hannah, Julia & Dajinxed1 stated. I find bad writing to be offensive, which means I need to do my own research.

[Tegan]

Laura wrote: "No.
I agree with everything Vicky, Nicole, Tegan, Jane, Emy, Hannah, Julia & Dajinxed1 stated. I find bad writing to be offensive, which means I need to do my own research."

Well, I can't say I mind warnings for "shitty writing" but that's a different type of trigger than I think we're talking about here. :D

[Eliste]

I'm also going to say no for all the reasons everyone has said already plus another.

I firmly believe that part of healing is learning to deal with things that can make you uncomfortable. I'm aware that not everyone feels this way, but I do think that you have to be able to go through life being able to deal with what comes your way. Actively avoiding things that discomfort you doesn't help you grow and heal past a certain point. If you can't survive reading a book with one scene that causes you issues, the I think thats something you need to look at and ask yourself, why?

Please be aware that I'm saying you in a general sense here and not towards any one person.

[Lee]

I like the idea of a reader creating a separate "trigger" or "sensitive themes" thread if s/he felt strongly enough about it, but I think it would be useful if the warning came with a bit of explanation. "graphic violence" is not a very useful term on its own but something like "vivid descriptions of sword warfare, hand to hand combat, dismemberment, and gore" is.

[Liv]

No.
Its just too much for the girls, if you feel like you should be forewarned just read reviews for the book in question. It also creates the problem about what kind of trigger warnings are there to include because people can be sensitive to all different kinds of things. And I agree with Eliste that sometimes its best to touch subjects that may discomfort you because if you do you may overcome that feeling and perhaps grow as a person.
Just my two cents.

[PointyEars42]

What about missing out on the possibly cathartic resolution the writer might have come up with... or the revenge scenario that would land you in prison if you tried it in real life?

Many fanfic sites (which sometimes host original fic, depending on the archive) do let you select or de-select topics when you search for stories and are littered with tags to describe the contents. I use those options to avoid reading WIPs, to select the level of PG vs NC-17 I'm in the mood for, and to actively seek out issues I want to see. I can't remember using them to avoid stuff that sets me off (mind you, in fandom you usually know in advance when a character is rapey or too stupid to live, etc) but I'd be interested to know if anyone uses those to spare themselves from trigger issues?

[Kamil]

I don't think trigger warnings are a good idea. Romance novels (VF or not) are like Danger Rooms from the X-men comic-books. They provide a safe environment for the reader to challange her/his fears, desires, fantasies and role in society. Of course some things will not resonate whith someone's sensibility and tollerance, yet creating a pre-defined trigger warning is impossible since we are all different.

[Gunnhildur]

Nicole wrote: "No, the girls would have to read every book before we did, to properly label each trigger..."

I think it is our responsibility to make sure that the books we read are not offensive to us.

I don't follow my book clubs recommendations blindly. I do a little research. It doesn't take long.

[Author]

Some publishers will include warnings, such as BDSM, sexual content, etc. Trying to go further gets way to complicated, IMO. As others in this thread have said, everyone has different triggers. If you're concerned about avoiding yours, I'd suggest asking around for people who've read the book you're interested in, and ask them if the book contains your particular trigger.

[Diana]

no. It's our responsibility to research the books if we want to read them. Secondly, I think if a book is good enough it can help to trigger an educated, adult conversation on certain things.

[toria (vikz writes)]

I think that the title of the group rather gives away the fact that the books we read will have adult and triggerish content.

[Felicia, Grand Duchess]

Hey Kat! I read this thread and I am sympathetic, but there's no way we could devise a "screening" list simply because EVERYONE'S standard would be different.

I would suggest reading reviews on Goodreads as the very best, or wait until the middle of the month and post the question under the book thread discussion asking if there are certain things in the book as it's fresh on ppl's minds. I'm sorry we can't do more for you, I appreciate your sensitivity and hope you can read along with us still!

[Jon]

I have to say No, to trigger warnings. For all the reasons that have been stated. That kind of system is almost always impossible to police to universal satisfaction, the only way to ensure you don't hit a hard limit is to do the research yourself.

[Ren]

Being that this is a romance book club (VAGINAL fantasy) I think that anything sexual is game in the books we read. Also, like everyone has said, Goodreads has lots and lots of reviews that you can read to do your own prescreening. And Amazon. And a zillion other sites. That's what I do and its worked so far.

[Laura]

I would say No, cause it's kinda rough to police.

But I appreciate a heads up "there's graphic rape in here" comment. Not mandatory, but if you feel like hey, maybe someone doesn't like to read an explicit rape scene, it's a nice gesture to point it out.

[Erin]

I vote with the No's.
I think I can research a book on my own or at least buy it used so I don't feel like I wasted money. This group, to me, is about branching out. Some books, while meh to me, others will LOVE.

[Cayt]

I don't have a problem with people who have already read the book or finishing it early posting what about the triggers they noticed in a book, if it's written somewhere where I can avoid looking at it unless I'm looking for it. I prefer to read a book without knowing too much about what's going to happen and some trigger warnings might be too spoilery or might color my view of the book before I read it. But having somewhere for everyone to post trigger warnings voluntarily could be a good idea.

I'll note that I can't really think of anything that bothers me overly much when I'm reading and I don't have any triggers whatsoever, so I don't have any experience with coming across something triggering without warning.

[Candy]

I'm going to say no as well, simply based on the amount of work involved. Like Felicia said, if you read most book reviews on Goodreads, they have triggers listed in the reviews. There have been a couple, though not very many, books I've decided against simply based on the reviews and triggers.

[Ivy]

I agree with the nay sayers. Since I think that being part of a book club inherently means you'll be reading things that you may not ordinarily pick up for yourself, trigger warnings just seem to me to subvert the idea of a book club. In my IRL book club the books that people picked as the best they'd read for the year were the ones that they would've never gravitated too.

And if you think about the books that are considered classics... you might never recommend them to kids of you subjected them to trigger warnings.

[Clayton]

Tossing my vote in the "No" pile.

Half the fun of reading for me is in the suspense. Sure, I have limits, but they are my own and it's important for me to be able to navigate my limits on my own. As I think it should be for anyone.

[Jonathan]

Not to just go along with the crowd but I'll throw in my "No" as well.

It seems to me that this is a book club. The point is to read the material and then discuss it. And if something in there makes you uncomfortable, the book club is the forum to bring that up. In the January live feed, I believe all of the girls had a common response of outrage to the Outlander spanking scene. That made for a great discussion and for those that would consider it a "trigger warning," venting in the book club can be greatly therapeutic.

[Christine]

Here's my thought on it: It may be like spoilers. So for those who don't like spoilers, I think perhaps having the trigger warnings tagged with the SPOILER HTML/link, so you don't necessarily have to read it and can dive in blindly if you so wish, and if you'd like to know, you can click on it and see the list of trigger warnings.

Sometimes, these themes are present so the character can overcome them, and grow as a person. In these cases (depending on your own squeamishness and/or how graphic/dark the scenes are) the issue in question may in fact be integral to the plot, the character, the book. Sometimes, they're wholly unnecessary. I don't really have an opinion on when/who/why something should or shouldn't have a warning, but I would request that they are made within the Spoiler tags, so in case it is integral to the plot or character, or supposed to be a horrific surprise to catalyze a turning point - it can remain that surprise and we can be taken on the same emotional journey as the character.

[Amanda]

We do not need trigger warnings because the warnings are ether vague or blown out of proportion with what is really happening. Warnings often make people afraid of going outside there comfort zone.

[Amanda]

It's a nay from me