Les Misérables
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The Most "Miserable" Character
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I can see your point. But Javert didn't really live an enviable life for me. I mean, well, he was born in jail and all that. He's 'clouded by an inexpressible hatred for that race of bohemians to whom he belonged'. So it's not that his mind was all that clear and peaceful. He doubted himself all the time. And the law is the only comfort to him, as long as he didn't break the law, he can still respect himself. But that doesn't mean he felt so happy with his life. And hatred itself is enough to make one's life full of agony. But I think what really make it sad is he found no peace when he died. Valjean died with Cosette beside him, knowing his sins are forgiven. Eponine died in Marius's arm. Fantine, well, at least she had got Valjean's promise that he will take care of her child and he did keep it and Fantine was remembered with love. But Javert, he died with the feeling that he had been wrong all his life. And the last thing he did before he died is writing that letter, expressing how much he actually concerned about others (even for the prisoners). And after his death, no-one missed him, no-one mourned him, the last comment someone made of him was that he 'committed suicide in a bout of insanity'.
(It's very very hard to explain with my limited English but I hope you can understand what I'm trying to say...)
I think it's hard to decide who is the 'most' miserable character (because after all it's 'Les Miserables' and their lives are all miserable. :P I guess it's just with whom we sympathise the most). Les Amis, Gavroche, some minor characters like M.Mabeuf (isn't it sad that he had to sell his beloved books, one by one, I'd cry blood if I had to do that...:P). But Javert definitely deserves more sympathy.
@John: You made a great point, however I don't agree with most of your argument.Javert was born in jail and was full of hatred against his mother, his family, and his race. He was not dull but painfully aware of the world rotating around him. (Mark this and compare with Jean at the same age.) In the song "The Confrontation" of the musical version, there is a line which is very strong and perfectly fits Javert:
Every man was born in sin, every man must choose his way.
What did he choose? Rising from the mud of the society, he became a protector of law. He chose Perfection (Justice), rather than Impurity (Humanity). Perfection has authority over Impurity but Impurity is the very Creator of Perfection. How paradoxical it is! Later his belief in Perfection was shattered and he collapsed in agony because of Jean's benevolent acts. Wait a minute, I think I already saw this scene somewhere earlier in the book.
Here it is, the moment Jean stole Bishop's precious things. For 19 years Jean was maltreated by the Law. When being released, his heart was petrified, full of hatred, and considered that since the society had deprived him of his life, his money of those 19 years, now was the turn for payback. Fair and square. All of us know the result. Jean collapsed in agony, too.
Until now, the situations were similar for both giants but they diverged from here. Bishop's words penetrated through Jean's fortress of perfection, but opened the gate and showed him the world of mankind, ugly but worth to live for. Jean's words did the same thing but "demolished" Javert's. In one side, we have a harmonic beat of two lives, on the other side, we witness a silence of hearts.
Javert was lonely from the second he was born till his death. He suffered this throughout his life, without whining. Instead, he bravely fought his war against crime and honestly served Perfection.
In short, he had no family nor friend, but shined the flash of diamond. This man is deserved to be called the most miserable.
@Kit: Gavroche is the best. For me, those students of ABC club are only kids under the shadow of Gavroche.
Pndasmile wrote: "@John: You made a great point, however I don't agree with most of your argument.Javert was born in jail and was full of hatred against his mother, his family, and his race. He was not dull but pa..."
Your make a very convincing argument, and may change my position yet, but two things immediately stand out.
One, you are using assumptions to bolster your argument where the text leaves absent what is needed. I have the same assumptions, that Javert lived a lonely life without friends and was miserable because of it, but we are never really explicitly told as much. I think they are fair assumptions and ones that most who read the novel have. In fact, it wasn't until your post, that I actually considered otherwise. Was Javert married? Where did he live? What did he do after work? All questions that are more or less not answered or only slightly alluded to and that leads me to the second thing you caused me to think of. But before I get to that, I would also add that some of the things you mention as a source of misery, his humble beginnings, etc. are things that might be a source of pride. I come from a very humble background and raised myself up and am very happy when I think of all I overcame to get here. A lot of us can say the same. Why is Javert to be ashamed of what many of us would look at as a source of pride. Told from Javert's point of view and it could make a one of those dreadful inspirational movies we get in the theatre so often. Again, I think your assumption are accurate, they are mine as well and I think they are what the author intended, but they can go another way.
My second thought concens the authors intent. Generally I do not place a great deal of emphasis on an authors intent because we all bring our own experiences and knowledge to a reading of a text which inevitably results in each person having simultaneously a singular and valid interpretation, but in this discussion I think it is at least worth some consideration. Hugo spent a great deal of time writing meticulously the details of all his characters and yet we know comparably nothing about Javert. Javert is critical to the story but he is just a lever, the machine that drives the action. To say Javert is the most miserable gives him an importance in this novel that I don't think he deserves nor was intended. This is a story about misery and Hugo expends a great deal of effort to describe in the minutest detail the misery of so many of his characters, but Javert he gives the broadest of brush strokes when compared to the others. It is their story. Javert is there to make it worth telling, but it is not Javert's story.
I believe it was Fantine because she never experienced any happiness and so is the nmost miserable. I dont believe Eponine had such a bad life since at first she was loved and scorned others.
John wrote: "Pndasmile wrote: "@John: You made a great point, however I don't agree with most of your argument.Javert was born in jail and was full of hatred against his mother, his family, and his race. He w..."
I really liked this comment because it's so opposite of what I think. I thought the book explained quite well that Javert was chaste and alone and that he was meant to be a main character, not just a lever.
I found the juxtaposition between Jean Valjean and Javert to be a major component to the story. It's like Hugo showing us the convent and the galleys, you think one is going to be worse but then it's the other that actually is.
@Carol: I have nothing against your opinion about Fantine, but I would like to point out that she DID have a moment of happiness (not long nor short). Two years with Tholomyes was a golden but bitter time.@John: first of all, Javert's role in the book. For me, taking a main role in a story does not automatically levitate special traits of a character. For instance, Katnipp in "The Hunger Game", she is as ignorant as other girls; Julien in "The Red and The Black", is he the most wicked villain? Ivanhoe, is he truly a White Knight? How about "Vanity Fair"? A main character can be as normal (good / bad) as an ordinary person but it serves as a choke point, around which supporting characters appear, the plot develops and the final judgement is decreed.
We talk of Jean now. I agree he was as miserable as other people but he had one rare thing: God protects. How many times in the book did God interfere his life? Compare the answer of this question to the situation of M. Mabeuf, Gavroche and his brother and... who else? Grantaire! He met right persons at right moments and right positions. Bishop, Sister Simplice, Fantine, Cosette, M. Fauchelevent... In Mr. Machievelli's words, Fortune favours him. Jean got a lot of bad things but at the same time he also received the handkerchief to soothe his tear. With this argument, I refuse your second paragraph.
(Little digression: when reading those lines above, if you think I hate Jean, I am sorry to state that you are wrong. What I want to deliver is Life adores somebody but goes too harsh against other. Jean and Javert/Fantine are two faces of the coin of life.)
Was Javert married? I am confident to state that he had never been married. To answer this, I take the vantage point of a married man having a stable job and then look at Javert's testament. It's one of rare moments we can spear deeply into his heart. What did he write? He cared for prisoners, but wrote nothing concerning his family. If a man had a job and a family, would he have dared to commit suicide? A man like Javert will never do so. I believe.
The humble (or hideous?) beginnings can make you proud but it is a shame for Javert. Why? Let's have a brief look on post-war Germany. Many families have decided to change their ancestor names because they relate to many Nazi criminals and those family cannot bear the stains no matter how hard they wash. It is similar to Javert's case.
With these two arguments, I reply to your first paragraph.
i cant see how any character in this book can be more miserable than another .. its just full of misery for all of them with a hint of light toward the end to hope
I agree with Sara's comment #57
Kylie wrote: "The most miserable character for me was Javert. I know, it is totally wierd, but I cried just about as hard when he died in the book as when Gavroche died... Okay maybe not as much, but close! :) T..."That is my conclusion too. He was born in jail, managed to elevate himself in society and could have led a fulfilling and meaningful life - one that all the other characters strove for. But his blinkered sense of justice and revenge wasted any enjoyment of the life that he earned.
To not have anyone to love, to not care about anyone, to sacrifice all the good things that came with the life he earned for what, in the end, turned out to be a big empty nothing, that must be true misery.
And then, having risen out of the life in jail, chasing criminals all his life long, at the end he commits the ultimate crime - according to Catholicism which I assume he would have ascribed to - suicide. He is condemned to an eternity in Hell - the ultimate jail.
The point is driven home, perhaps in the musical/movie, when the final song is sung:
"Do you hear the people sing?
Lost in the valley of the night;
It is the music of a people
Who are climbing to the light.
For the wretched of the earth
There is a flame that never dies,
Even the darkest nights will end
And the sun will rise.
They will live again in freedom
In the garden of the Lord;
They will walk behind the ploughshare
They will put away the sword;
The chain will be broken
And all men will have their reward!"
The entire cast (ghosts and all) get to sing that - except Javert who assumedly is in Hell for committing the sin of suicide. He is the only one who suffers eternal misery.
Ahh, poor Javert.
Wow, Joanne, I reckon you killed it.No ploughshare for Javert!
@Pndasmile - which is the most miserable of the ABC students and how miserable, (on a scale of 1 to Javert,) is Gavroche.
I found it pretty miserable that they really wanted the white bread because they thought the brown was bad for them.
I was all like "nooo... Gavroche, buy the cheap wholegrain, it's good fibre!"
Anyone else?
Kit wrote: "Wow, Joanne, I reckon you killed it.No ploughshare for Javert!
@Pndasmile - which is the most miserable of the ABC students and how miserable, (on a scale of 1 to Javert,) is Gavroche.
I found it..."
Thank you! I wouldn't have come to this conclusion when I first read the book as a teenager (after falling in love with the musical) coz I would have been all Eponine! Fantine!
But now, reading the novel again - before the release of the movie - and being older and more *cough* mature, I think Javert's is the saddest story of all. As Hugo wrote:
“It is nothing to die. It is frightful not to live.”
HAHAHA. That cheap wholegrain never crossed my mind! In the same vein, let Marie Antoinette eat cake and get fat! We'll starve and remain slim, thank you very much! LOL
I just found this 'Mood Index Chart' for Les Miserables from Paris Review Blog.It probably has missed a few points
edit: no, no, actually M.Myriel is there I just noticed that little blue bar. >_<;; sorry!
Joanne wrote: "Kylie wrote: "The most miserable character for me was Javert. I know, it is totally wierd, but I cried just about as hard when he died in the book as when Gavroche died... Okay maybe not as much, b..."In my high school production freshman year, Javert and les Thénardiers were included in the finale. I always thought this was an error, but especially after I read the novel.
Lauren wrote: "Joanne wrote: "Kylie wrote: "The most miserable character for me was Javert. I know, it is totally wierd, but I cried just about as hard when he died in the book as when Gavroche died... Okay maybe..."I don't think it's right that Javert is in the finale. I'm uncertain about the Thenardiers. I'll have to go watch my 25th Anniversary DVD again to find out!
Akira wrote: "I just found this 'Mood Index Chart' for Les Miserables from Paris Review Blog.It probably has missed a few points (I certainly remember M.Myriel was mentioned sometime later when Valhean mourne..."
Extremely cool mood index! Javert's hardly has any blue (positive) on his metre. He's all red (negative)!
Javert, he never received grace, he would've rather died clinging to the law than to receive mercy. Saddest character ever, atleast for all their suffering the others learned to love others even sacrificing themselves for another(Eponine).
Joanne wrote: "Lauren wrote: "Joanne wrote: "Kylie wrote: "The most miserable character for me was Javert. I know, it is totally wierd, but I cried just about as hard when he died in the book as when Gavroche die..."Javert is in the finale in all the musicals except in the movie version. Hugo being a devout Christian wouldn't have wanted it that way since Javert does commit suicide. However on other peoples notes, I don't see him as the most miserables character: He had his rules and he abide by them until the end. I think his life was complete until he decided to help Valjean. Even then, I think he had a new found respect for Valjean and had realized that the man may have changed; but since it was against his code, he could not cope. But all around, he lived his life to its fullest. Until his demise of course.
that's an amazing mood chart! Someone is seriously committed to the Hugo analysis!
Thank Akira!
Kit wrote: "that's an amazing mood chart! Someone is seriously committed to the Hugo analysis!
Thank Akira!"
I agree the mood chart is pretty cool, however I disagree with most of it. For instance, Gavroche, was always happy, till the end, he was even proud to help his brothers find shelter, even though he never knew they were is flesh and blood. I don't get the relevance of the chart at all. Unless I'm misunderstanding the point of the chart. Now I'm sounding bitchy, sorry, I love this story too much to let go... LOL.
A.R. wrote: "Kit wrote: "that's an amazing mood chart! Someone is seriously committed to the Hugo analysis!
Thank Akira!"
I agree the mood chart is pretty cool, however I disagree with most of it. For instan..."
I agree with you. Gavroche, to me, was never miserable. He delighted in his state of being.
A.R. wrote: "Kit wrote: "that's an amazing mood chart! Someone is seriously committed to the Hugo analysis!
Thank Akira!"
I agree the mood chart is pretty cool, however I disagree with most of it. For instan..."
Oh, I don't mind! :) I love it too! And I can see your point about Gavroche. I just found it and thought I would share. As I pointed out, it misses a few points (or probably a lot). The chart was generated from words associated to positive/negative mood such as 'love', 'smile', 'hate', 'horror', 'cry', etc. But there are also expressions like 'cry of joy', 'bitter smile' and things like that and I have no idea how detailed the generator goes. ^^;;
And about what you've said before, I remember Norm Lewis got to sing in the epilogue in the 25th anniversary. However, in the 10th anniversary, Philip Quast and the Thenadiers were excluded from the song. (I don't think I recognise Allam voice in the OLC recording neither and he's got quite a voice that I think I'd recognise anywhere,) I didn't notice whether the current Javert (I think it's Tam Mutu) gets to sing the song or not when I went to see it last October at the Queen's. Actually I never notice that until Joanne pointed out (thank you!) Perhaps Javert wasn't in the finale in the early versions of the musical and then they changed it later.
I think I love the version when he gets to sing it better, though. At least he had changed and decided let Valjean go in the end (of his life) which means he was 'climbing to the light' too! And isn't the whole point of the story is people who committed sin will be forgiven if they change themselves? Besides, his life is miserable enough... poor Javert!
PS.Apologies for my terrible English. I really shouldn't say something this long. ;_;
Akira wrote: "A.R. wrote: "Kit wrote: "that's an amazing mood chart! Someone is seriously committed to the Hugo analysis!
Thank Akira!"
I agree the mood chart is pretty cool, however I disagree with most of it..."
Great points Akira, and your English is perfect, if not better than mine. Tried to send you a friends request but I'm out of requests for the day. I'm glad you are an avid fan of Les Miserables in all formats. And I must say I do love Javert in the musical a lot. 'Stars' is my favorite song of the entire show.
Fantine, perhaps. But I'm leaning towards 'Ponine. I mean, she died for her love. The love between Marius and Cosette, while it did improve, was based basically on physical attraction. I used to ship MariusxCosette, but after reading the story and seeing how terrible Marius treated Eponine, I have no pity for Pontmercy (the son).
But truthfully, Les Miserables technically means "the miserables" so all of the characters do experience pain in different amounts, and are all miserable.
But truthfully, Les Miserables technically means "the miserables" so all of the characters do experience pain in different amounts, and are all miserable.
Grantaire. The guy didn't believe in anything at all except Enjolras who he greatly admired. But Enjolras could barely tolerate Grantaire because Grantaire was always drunk and didn't believe in Enjolras's cause. To Grantaire life had no meaning and the one person he had any faith in continuously put him down. Therefore I believe Grantaire to be the most miserable character in Led Miserables
Quinn wrote: "Grantaire. The guy didn't believe in anything at all except Enjolras who he greatly admired. But Enjolras could barely tolerate Grantaire because Grantaire was always drunk and didn't believe in ..."
Oh my goodness yes!!! Grantaire needed love, and nobody was willing to give it to him! I actually respect him quite a bit. Hard to believe that at the time there actually might have been a guy like Grantaire, or that there are actually people like that living today. :(
Oh my goodness yes!!! Grantaire needed love, and nobody was willing to give it to him! I actually respect him quite a bit. Hard to believe that at the time there actually might have been a guy like Grantaire, or that there are actually people like that living today. :(
I believe that some of the characters are equally miserable. In my opinion, Marius was the least miserable. But, Eponine, Fantine, ValJean, and Gavroche seem extremely miserable characters. Eponine, was a rich girl when she was younger. The love of her life (Marius) used her as a "girl next door" so he could find Cosette. She then died, trying to save Marius. I find that extremely miserable. But Fantine, not only had the love of her life leave her, but that meant she had to give up her child, Cosette. Then, she got fired, and had to choose a job that was terrible. I do believe ValJean was, for obvious reasons, of the constant feeling of being on the run. Gavroche, was miserable, though it isn't focused on very often. Gavroche is the innkeeper's son (Little known fact to those who only watched the movie) Gavroche ran away, and lived in poverty in an elephant. AN ELEPHANT FOR GOD'S SAKES! Then, he died in battle. That is true misery for such a young boy.
Terry wrote: "Jeni wrote: "I've never felt sorry for Javert until I saw the newest movie version of LM. I actually wept for him and his conflict.For me, Fantine was thrust into miserable circumstances, but sh..."
Javert, is miserable, that is a fair point. No, Eponine is not as miserable as Javert, depending on which point of view you look at it. But, I find it appalling that anyone would think Javert was more miserable than Fantine. That I find a little upsetting anyone would think that.
honestly, for me, it would have to be Javert. Everyone thinks of him as the "bad guy" but if you think about it, he searched all his life for this man who escaped him, and he was only doing his job. When he finally found Valjean, he was let free, feeling a sudden pang of guilt for searching all his life, and considering killing Valjean, when Valjean could've killed him in a heartbeat, and he didn't. Javert died in Guilt, which to me, is one of the worst feelings out there.
Cece wrote: "honestly, for me, it would have to be Javert. Everyone thinks of him as the "bad guy" but if you think about it, he searched all his life for this man who escaped him, and he was only doing his job..."That's a great point! Guilt is a terrible feeling, and Javert did die feeling that, so in that point, I can see how you would think of Javert as the most miserable character.
Emma wrote: "Cece wrote: "honestly, for me, it would have to be Javert. Everyone thinks of him as the "bad guy" but if you think about it, he searched all his life for this man who escaped him, and he was only ..."thank you! I just have always felt bad for him! Who did you say was most miserable???
Cece wrote: "Emma wrote: "Cece wrote: "honestly, for me, it would have to be Javert. Everyone thinks of him as the "bad guy" but if you think about it, he searched all his life for this man who escaped him, and..."If you look up a couple posts, you will see my post
haha oh wow, those are fantastic points!! If i didn't feel so much sympathy for Javert, I'd say Gavroche!!
Cece wrote: "haha oh wow, those are fantastic points!! If i didn't feel so much sympathy for Javert, I'd say Gavroche!!"Thank you, not many people think about Gavroche!
poor little guy! And many people also forget that since he was the leader of that little pack of homeless children, after he was shot, many of the other children suffered as well
Very true, in the book I believe their names were stated, but I forget them. But yes, they too are also quite miserable!
Cece wrote: "honestly, for me, it would have to be Javert. Everyone thinks of him as the "bad guy" but if you think about it, he searched all his life for this man who escaped him, and he was only doing his job..."
True! Not only that, but he was chasing after Valjean perhaps because he felt the only way to get people to respect him was if he followed the rules.. But he wasted years of his life. Hatred is a horrible thing.
True! Not only that, but he was chasing after Valjean perhaps because he felt the only way to get people to respect him was if he followed the rules.. But he wasted years of his life. Hatred is a horrible thing.
you have a really good point, too!
In my opinion and being fluent in French "Les Miserables" means "The Least Fortunate". The term was referred to the people of the lower class and later to the working class; who were also referred to as "Les Sans Culottes".Victor Hugo is among very few French and International writers who recorded this amazing event in the history of several French Revolutions.
What distinguishes this Revoultion from all others of the same era is that instead of the old system (Feudalism) fighting with the new system (Capitalism), the events of this book are abut the working class fighting for their own rights.
Although it was premature and doomed to fail, this revolution showed the power of "Les Miserables" and what they are capable of achieving IF AND WHEN given awareness and being organized.
I think Fantine was the most miserable of them all, however she accepted her fate, which is all the more unbearable because of the way the Thernadiers used the money, and the despicable way Cosette was treated.I have always been conflicted about how I view Eponine. She treated Cosette so terribly when they were children, but, could it have been a learned trait from her parents, was she treating Cosette that way out of pure malice or out of learned behavior and a fear of possible retribution from her parents if she treated Cosette kindly?
Then, what of the way she reacted to the knowledge of Cosette being the love interest of Marius? Did she truly have a change of heart and wish for Marius' happiness in the end or did she act out of some fatal attraction? Her character really bothers me honestly.
I feel like I want to both pity and despise her at the same time, I sometimes wonder how her character would react if the setting was slightly different and there wouldn't have been the imminent threat of death. Would she have destroyed Cosette's happiness completely, by trying to steal away Marius' affection?
Definitely Fantine. The poor lady was just trying to keep her sick daughter alive, who was in the hands of an evil innkeeper who was hijacking her hard-earned money, all the while recovering from her husband leaving her, getting sacked, becoming a prostitute, losing her hair (and teeth), singing a depressingly moving musical number, nearly getting arrested, having drifting visions of her absent daughter who she missed very much, and ultimately dying. I think my point stands.
For some reason, Gavroche's two little brothers are the most tragic and truly miserable characters for me. Maybe because they represent the all the innocent and defenseless children of this era, alone, loveless, starving, cold and not really understanding why they have to go through all this. Fantine is a close second.
I think Eponine was the most miserable because she had the thenarders for parents. It's not her fault she was mean to Cosette as a kid- she was 3 when Cosette came to live with her, and 3-year-olds copy what their parents do. It would be horrible to be raised as a spoiled brat, and then suddenly go into poverty (they were living under a bridge for a time). Eponine might not be the most likable character, but based on how she was raised, she turned out very well. I think another thing that makes her miserable is that no one really cared when she died except for Marius, and even that was only because an innocent girl died. He never really cared about her, not even as a friend. She loved him, but he only gave her attention if it was to help him find Cosette. Her mother was dead, and she betrayed her father who didn't care about her anyway. To everyone else, she was just another homeless girl.
Anyways, Eponine had a good heart, but her life was miserable.
ABSOLUTELY EPONINE :(`````````````
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I think that is a great argument presenting Javert as the most tragic, but as to the most miserable, I will revert to the 'ignorance is bliss' position. I do not believe those who have never tasted Ben and Jerry's ice cream cannot possibly enjoy food any more than I believe Javert is miserable because the reader knows what he is missing.