The Black Tower discussion
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a Memory of Light SPOILER topic. (comments during or after reading)
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wow absolutly loved that badass boarderlander charge,apearing out of nowhere to malkiers side. beautiful!
But what under the light is wrong with Egwene??? If she keeps having such black side thoughts about everyone, she should proclaim herself black, because she will serve the black unwittingly by causing strife...And though Olver hasn't been mentioned yet, I'm intensely curious what his role will be... I don't really believe he's some kind of incarnation of gaidal caine (the age just doesn't add up) but I do always think of him when Birgitte is mentioned.
I just went for a walk through the dark (it's almost 8 pm here) woods with Honey (my dog, see avatar). While I was walking I kept listening to amol. At one point I laughed out loud about some comment by mat. My dog stood there looking at me and I could see her thinking. "strange two legs, making sounds at the wind"
the head of the army is the job of the prince of ravens? game on.
Shara... I hate to say it, but I told you so!! Also I haven't found a Mat scene yet in which I didn't have a smile on my face.
uhhh there is a 200 page chapter. holy shit thats a small book
im not complaining exactly but Mat's dialogue reads like Doctor who/David Tennant.
Loved it...until page 904ish hated how he ended it....am working on my review now and will have it up tomorrow but after 23 years and 14 books he left ALOT hanging IMO.
Nothing cut me more than when they named Davram a darkfriend. It was the one time when tears actually fell from my face.I agree with you Liz, there is so much I want to know and that we never will know, but I suppose that had to end it somewhere and somehow and I doubt that there could have been an ending to satisfy us after such journey.
Also if you had to pin down who this story was about it was Rand Al'Thor - The Dragon Reborn, and he is no longer really that, so I suppose ending it where they did made sense.
Kathryn you make a good point...could have used an epilogue was all I am saying, he/they invested us in a ton of characters outside of Rand, and to give us no closure on them hurt. Plus (Spoiler Alert!!!!) what was that whole just think about the pipe being lit and it was....what did that mean? A new power? Said he could not touch the Sources....I don't know I did love the book, it was a fitting ending to the Last Battle and all, I just wanted more about the others I guess. Hence why I hope maybe Sanderson will continue to write about the others in the WoT world.
Yeah that bit with the pipe at the end, confused the hell out of me. Edit Actually just discussing it on another forum, with the dark one he was pretty much manipulating the pattern almost channeling it, he's an uber ta'veren now and with that power maybe it's better everyone think him dead.As for an epilogue, yeah i felt the same, what did hawkwing say to tuon, what will rand do(going by Avienda's viewing from the previous book, he seems to wander). Ever hear of the outrigger novels?, supposedly jordan had these in mind following matt and tuon after the last battle, but with jordan passing away, the wife decided not to follow up and just finish them. There is material there, obviously the seanchan, whats rand up to and his vision of battle with the sharans later on. If they do take it up hope it isn't sanderson as it'll take away from the way of kings series. There was 2 prequels set after new spring as well.
As for the book, just so many amazing bits, demandred finally revealing what he was up to, last thing i expected, loved the pevara\androl scenes, matt was excellent as per usual, the exchange between himself and rand.
i just shed my first tear of the book. R.I.P. Bela best horse ever.
I know ben I cried too...after all Bella had been through with Eqwene and Olver...so sad to see the enag fall.
SPOILERS AHEADHad to share my thoughts on the final book somewhere. I have been reading WOT since 2000 and having now finished the series I am entirely satisfied. A story as grand as this or any other "epic" for want of a better (if not overused) word (well said Thom Merrilin) was always going to be about the journey. WOT through 14 books has always kept me salivating for more. Never have I read a series and been taken on such a journey of discovery.
Addressing the final book, is somewhat difficult for me. It was a book perhaps overshadowed by my own emotions; accepting that the series had finally come to end, a realisation that this was indeed another painful goodbye to Mr Jordan and an understanding that Rand, Mat, Perrin et al would no longer be part of my life. For these reasons, and those outlined in the beginning of this post, AMoL was never really going to disappoint me.
However trying to shirk my inane bias toward the series, looking at AMoL as a stand alone novel, there are a few points I would like to address.
1. The opening half of the book, prior to the Last Battle, felt mundane, dare I say repetitive almost. It concentrates on humanities last skirmishes against the Dark One before regrouping for the Last Battle itself. Each theatre of war (Tarwins Gap, Kandor, Andor, Shayol Ghul) follows the same process; description of battles, momentum swings for either Good or Evil, and ultimately the fall of a Great Captain to trickery or compulsion at the hands of the Forsaken. Rinse and repeat.
2. The Last Battle. As in THE actual Last Battle, that monstrous chapter of near 200pgs, is the most spectacular piece of writing describing the ebbs, flows and pulses (thanks Mat) of battle in the entire series. Throughout this section, as with all series' as grand as this, some set pieces delighted whilst others fell flat; some death sequences shocked, others tugged at your heart strings or strangely had the entirely opposite effect (Gawyn). Overall it was a breathtaking chapter and one I know when I read in years to come will likely effect me in different ways.
3. Rand vs The Dark One. This I'm sorry to say for me turned from being the most exciting, compelling part of the book, to being the most disappointing. Going into AMoL I wanted to believe that Rand's story was being told for a reason. I wanted an explanation as to why in this cyclical world, ruled by the Wheel of Time, where major events would ultimately repeat themselves, did Jordan decide to tell us Rand's tale? And oh boy did I think I was going to find my answer. Rand's bold statement of intent at the start of AMoL (to kill the Dark One) set my pulse racing. I knew as soon as he said it that it couldn't, shouldn't be possible. The Dark One indeed showed Rand the consequence of a world without evil. A world sterilised by the lack of free will to commit evil acts. Still however I thought ok, we can't have a world without the Dark One, at least have one where he's sealed up properly...FOREVER...but at some terrible cost to humanity; the breaking of the wheel? the loss of channelling forever? the merging of all worlds, Finn-land, Tel'aran'rhiod etc into one (my apologies for those obvious and over theorised examples). I, humbly, might I add, wanted something more. More than Rand saying oh hell, let's just fix this great big hole up properly until someone decides to bore a hole into again in 2000yrs time. It felt like an unsatisfying end despite having such a bold desire at the start of the book. It made me question the point in what he done!? If he was able to look back and reminisce about what he had done wrong as Lews Therin, then why not look back further again to previous battles, previous encounters as different entities? Elan Morin said it himself; "You and I have fought a thousand battles since the turning of the Wheel, a thousand times a thousand." I always assumed that the prologue, and Elan Moran's words where an unspoken challenge...try and change this cycle Dragon??? Perhaps I should have simply interpreted those words as sense of foreshadowing or foreboding as to how the series would end? How things turned out however almost seemed like an easy way out when there was the possibility of something grander!?
Overall, the rest of the book, despite varying criticisms I have read concerning its open endedness relating to a number of characters and/or story lines, was in line with my own personal expectations. I would hate to end this post sounding negative. AMoL was not a negative experience. The END, the OUTCOME, the GRAND FINALE, call it what you will was not how i had imagined it, but never the less I enjoyed it all immensely. I laughed, I cried, I embraced it as part of the collective series I've known and loved these past number of years. It is done now and I was glad to have the pleasure of reading it.
Andrew i completley agree. while somthings played out far to easily (mat vs. fain) i did finish the book feeling it was an apropriate capstone on the monument this series has become. I do feel this was done as well as anybody but Robert Jordan could have done it. and on that note, thank you for an amazing adventure mr. Jordan and mr. Sanderson.
p.s. to anybody dissapointed about not learning how certain people or plotlines ended up remember there is still a bit more forthcoming! Brandon has a WOT story arc that didnt make it into AMOL's final draft ready to publish in an anthology book for charity. plus Harriot is hard at work on the official Wheel of Time encyclopedia!
Ben wrote: "p.s. to anybody dissapointed about not learning how certain people or plotlines ended up remember there is still a bit more forthcoming! Brandon has a WOT story arc that didnt make it into AMOL's f..."I heard Jordan had a series called outrigger that dealt mainly with matt and tuon after but I thought Harriot canned the idea when rob died.
Yes Ben. Padan Fain felt like such a disappointment. It seemed tacked on, like they weren't sure what exactly to do with him, especially when considered against the Perrin vs Slayer arc. How many times did Perrin battle Slayer before being drawn to Rand. Enough times to fill a complete book in the series I'd say. And compare that to how many times Mat and Fain interacted before Mat was drawn to Rand. Yeah, not so much. I feel that so much was made of Fain throughout the series, this tragic character, this "other evil" that he represented, and yet was wholly unfulfilled when it boiled down to it. When I heard Rands intent to destroy the Dark One, my initial thought was No Way, simply for the reasons presented in the Dark Ones vision to Rand. When Fain eventually appeared my mind was racing with theories, could Rand destroy the Dark One but have his evil replaced with the human made construct of evil that was Mashadar (Fain) in its stead...!? But no, ultimately Fain just fell over and died.
I'm sorry I sound so critical, I have said a million good things about the last book, and the series, but I do enjoy the critique and don't mean it a detrimental manner.
exactly my best guess is that jordan left a small note somwhere saying Mat would be the one to take down Fain but without more info Brandon wanted to play it safe with that story. i totally thought Fain would replace the dark one expecialy when Rand saw the psudo reality of the world without evil.
@Ancapaillmor the story arc wont be an outrigger novel it will be part of a book called Unfettered containing short stories from many different fantasy authors to be sold for charity to help pay for some dudes medical bills (lucky guy). Brandons contribution will be a story arc that was cut out of A Memory of Light (not sure which character it follows.) google search Brandon Sanderson anthology there will be a link to his site about it
just finished!!! loved it sooooo much! some thoughts:1. moraine coming back was awesome
2. love how they did the last battle, i love how he did it all in one(really big) chapter, ive always liked in WoT how he actually tells you the battle plans and they actually make sense
3. mat is a baddass captian
4. scared that they would not kill any of the main characters especially after talames almost died and comes back to life
5. like how Lan is the one to kill demandred though i wish he would have actually died, woulda made his sacrifice better
6. egwene is actually cool for once!!!
7. i like how they fit all the prophecys in, like with alivia
8. pipe thing really weird but awesome
10. i like how cadsuane knows thats its rand
all in all, i loved it and think its a great end to the series!
I think 8 and 10(where's 9) are significant, cadsuanes mission wasn't to make him laugh and cry for the battle it was for after and the power he possibly has now. I'm trying to find was she in anyway linked to Gitara morosso.
Just finished it was an amazing story just have a couple questions/comments that i was wondering if anyone had thoughts on?1.Why was there never any dialouge with Mat and Talames?
2.All the information we get about Shaidar Haran(superfade) is that his body was a crumpled puile of mush??????
3a. Waygates, if they can't destory them why not setup gateways in front of them with channlers on rotating shifts so if shadowspawn try to use them they just die.
3b. Are the ways cleansed?
4. Demandred -Really??? i was kind of disappoint with his indenty, not the role he played i just wish he was someone we knew.
5. When was the 2nd time that Rand brought Mat back to life (Hawking mentioned it)?
6. Where did Mat go, i mean i assume to Tuon but i didn't feel like his charcter really had an ending
Kenneth wrote: "Just finished it was an amazing story just have a couple questions/comments that i was wondering if anyone had thoughts on?1.Why was there never any dialouge with Mat and Talames?
2.All the inf..."1
#5 - When Rand used Balefire on Rahvin, who had killed Mat, Aviendha and Asmodean. The amount of Balefire was enough to bring them back to life.
Oh that's right the darkhounds spit right?
Hmm, no. That's another one. It happened in The Fires of Heaven, when they travel to Caemlyn to kill Rahvin.
yeah and the darkhound was busting though the door and his tooth sliced his arm, but then got killed by balefire and he was fine. I may be wrong i'll have to reread it.
That happened before though. They are two separate events, and I'm pretty sure Hawkwing was talking about what I mentioned. He said that it's something Mat doesn't remember - he was brought back to life when Rahvin was killed with Balefire so, technically, his death by the hands of Rahvin didn't happen and he has no memory of it.
I don't remember Rahvin killing Mat only the darkhound during the Rahvin fight
The darkhounds' attack happens way before their fight with Rahvin, which is the climax of the book:http://library.tarvalon.net/index.php...
Sanderson answers some questions below. Doesn't answer much really. Looks like Jordan had planned on more but his death put an end to that.http://www.tor.com/blogs/2013/01/bran...
Mat didn't remember the dark hounds... I believe that when Rand came in after killing them, he was shaking his hand or somehing and said something like 'I could have sworn that thing slobbered all over me' If I remember it right, that is....
The part with the darkhounds fits as well, but I still think Hawkwing was talking about the time Mat was killed by Rahvin. Mat does remember his fight with the darkhounds (and I think Moiraine later tells them that Rand Balefire saved him), while he has no memory of being struck down by the Forsaken. Plus, he was actually dead that time, just like he was dead when hanged.
I knew that this novel was going to be epic to the hilt when the opening scene in chapter one was all out kill or, be killed combat against the shadow and, the people of my favorite city...Camelan! I thought to myself this. "Oh hell! Here we go!"
OMG LAN LAUGHED!! Malkier truly lives again!! I loved the washing scene with Rand and Aviendha. Moraines come back... Oh my how she put everyone in their places! Perfect how she used the prophecies to do it, even with arrogant egwene. Now I'm gonna listen to the second part (out of 5 parts) of the audiobook.
Btw I wonder if it was the horn Mat was holding when we saw a glimpse of him briefly. Will he truly be able to let Elayne lead the troops?