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Sense and Sensibility
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AUSTEN 01 -- Sense and Sensibility
It just occurred to me that Mrs John Dashwood also known as Fanny is like Delilah. Bible story: Delilah was persistent in knowing Samson's secret, only to betray him. Well I see Fanny as that traitor, fishing and feeding John information so he can betray his family.I really enjoyed reading this story, the roller coaster of events piqued my interest. Marianne story was just as important as Elinor's, thus I see them as two heroines in one story. That is a first for a Austen novel.
In terms of characters: My favourite was Elinor, she was so selfless, putting her sister's (Marianne) feelings before hers. I believe their mother should have been more weary about the suitor's her girls attached. She was blinded by their looks, charms and relations. I am not sure about Edward, his behaviour needs questioning. As for Willoughby I think he is a jerk! I would not be able to be around Fanny for more than five minutes without be irritated, urghh!.
The novel is reality, it is not a make believe plot that you read and go "yeahh right." I do not want to go into details because I would create spoilers.
Quotes
"...the more I know of the world , the more I am convinced that I shall never see a man whom I can really love. I require so much!"
"... for when the romantic refinements of a young mind are obliged to give way , how frequently are they succeeded by such opinions are but too common, and too dangerous ! I speak from experience."
" I wish, as well as everybody else, to be perfectly happy; but, like everybody else, it must be in my own way. Greatness will not make me so."
"Sometimes one is guided by what they say of themselves, and very frequently by what other people say of them, without giving oneself time to deliberate and judge.'
"Shyness is the only the effect of a sense of inferiority in some way or other. If I could persuade myself that my manners were perfectly easy and graceful, I should not be shy."
"I did not know I contradicted anybody in calling your mother ill-bred." LOL :P Dear Mr. Palmer
"... where the mind is perhaps rather unwilling to be convinced, it will always find something to support its doubts..."
" Whoever may have been so detestably your enemy, let them be cheated of their malignant triumph, my dear sister, by seeing how nobly the consciousness of your own innocence and good intentions supports your spirits. It is reasonable and laudable pride which resists such malevolence."
"When a young man, be he will, comes and makes love to a pretty girl,and promises marriage , he has no business to fly off from his word only because he grows poor, and a richer girl is ready to have him."
Movies Seen (Ratings Based on Goodreads' own)
Scents and Sensibility.....3/5
From Prada to Nada........2/5
Sense and Sensibility 1981.....2/5
Sense and Sensibility 1971.....3/5
Sense and Sensibility 1995.....2/5
Mrs. John Dashwood is one of those that's so despicable that she's humorous. You see her slowly wheedling away her in-law's fortunes so she can have even more wealth for her only son. But she sounds so comically terrible when she's doing it. I love that the ladies choose to be happy in their lot no matter how much or little they have.Currently on Chapter XVII and came across this line:
"'What have wealth or grandeur to do with happiness?'" - Marianne, Chapter XVII
She's a rather silly character, at least at this point, as she is very young, but it's a far more astute observation that she knows. We always do seem to be striving for more wealth or grandeur but it often seems to me that the wealthiest celebrities are often the most unhappy. Of course, in that period (and sometimes still today) the money a woman had made a big difference in her ability to function in the world, as she was not allowed to do much more than socialize, marry and produce children.
I'd forgotten how refreshing Jane Austen's books are. About 1/3 the way through this one, and while I've read it before, it's so nice to see characters that are good or funny or mischievous, or evil or sneaky or kind or... Yes, her books do become very similar, but it's a formula that comfortable without being cheap entertainment and I always feel better after reading them. It's a nice change from some of my recent more heavy reading.
Alana wrote: "I'd forgotten how refreshing Jane Austen's books are. About 1/3 the way through this one, and while I've read it before, it's so nice to see characters that are good or funny or mischievous, or evi..."I have that same experience, it is such a thrill reading this one again. I did not want to put it down but I had to...
I am just beginning my re-read of S&S. I agree with the comments about Fanny - she is a nut! It is interesting to see the influence she has on her husband --- which is an interesting thought for all wives and future wives. Don't be like Fanny!!!! Selfish and self-seeking.....I mean she moved in before father was properly laid to rest ---- just terrible!
Kimberly wrote: "I am just beginning my re-read of S&S. I agree with the comments about Fanny - she is a nut! It is interesting to see the influence she has on her husband --- which is an interesting thought for al..."I see John as equal to Fanny in vanity. He wants connections to other the wealthy. He chose a suitable wife for himself, their are both ridiculous and unbearable.
Mod
I am reading this book quite slowly as if I am reading it out loud actually - Austen's sentences seem so beautifully crafted, made for reading out loud to the audience before the fireplace.
I have just read Chapter 29 (view spoiler), so I might really share some thoughts about the book before going speedily off to the epilogue of this tiny family drama.
I love the way Jane portrays her characters. Mr and Mrs John Dashwood from the beginning of the novel are the most exquisite examples of well written characters perfect to despise :D Oh I didn't know whether to sneer upon or pity that wicked, selfish, narrow-minded and petty creature... Mr John Dashwood maybe wasn't so bad, but definitely was weak and spineless character, unworthy of Dashwoods' attention although he was of their kin.
As for main characters, Austen doesn't spare them either. There is no cheesiness in her descriptions and observations. Every character has some admirable traits and flaws too, even Elinor -- who I for an example like the most, but still feel she should be more relaxed, more approachable. She seems like someone trying too hard to be perfect for everyone, so much she seems distant and cold while her heart is actually overwhelmed with doubts and desires she keeps strictly to herself. Marianne is the total opposite of her, heedless of everyone and everything, rushing blindly everywhere her heart leads her to. The book title is really proper one :)
There is only one curiosity I found quite interesting - references to the age of characters. For an example, while Colonel Brandon would be quite old for Marianne even today because of big age difference (however, in his case I think bigger problem for their relationship was the difference in characters), he isn't really so old in today terms -- only thirty five! And Mrs Dashwood, she is only forty! And yet she was portrayed as today would be someone much older :o I understand those times were different, and life expectancy wasn't so long as today.
I did enjoy the chapter where Mrs. Dashwood is laughing at Marianne for complaining about how old Colonel Brandon is, saying at 40 she hopes her daughter isn't planning to bury her just yet! Youth even these days seem to think that 35 is ancient, although since people are getting married and having children much later in life, I don't think it's looked at as QUITE so old. However, a couple of hundred years ago, the life expectancy was not what it is today, so 35 or 40 were in a sense "older" than they are today.
Zeljka wrote: "I am really sorry for being so terrible host to this discussion, jumping in so late into it. So far I like your comments and quotes and feel no need to add much to them :)I am reading this book q..."
I always feel the age difference a bit disconcerting when I read Austen. I guess it is because I measure that time by today's standards. I see it as, if it was today Colonel Brandon would be in jail.
Mod
True. I was a bit disturbed at that how in one tea-time conversation Colonel Brandon talks amiably with Elinor while eyeing Marianne. As if I do not already know how the story ends, I caught myself thinking at one moment how she might have been nice match to him. I would be a wee bit jealous if I was Elinor at that moment...
By the way -- now I really jump ahead -- I had that issue with Emma :) (view spoiler)
Mod
Yes, it is a bit odd how it wasn't expected at all that Mrs Dashwood has any life beyond her daughters. All right, she was freshly widowed, but nevertheless, as if no one expected her to go anywhere out of her house. Even invites were mostly meant for Dashwood girls.
Zeljka wrote: "Marren wrote: "I always feel the age difference a bit disconcerting when I read Austen. I guess it is because I measure that time by today's standards. I see it as, if it was today Colonel Brandon ..."Oh goodness me I had that same issue with the hero and heroine in Emma as well. hmmmm
Zeljka, I agree about your spoiler...while the age might not be so bad, referring to it in that fashion is a little odd and awkward. As for Mrs. Dashwood, honestly, there probably WASN'T much for her to do in that day at her age and circumstance. She never seems to lack for enjoyment though. As I get slowly older I enjoy being at home with my husband and dog just by ourselves, so I can see that by the time I'm in my 40s I could be very content. The invites are always going to be for the young people, but I don't think older people mind it too much. But the idea that her life is completely over is rather silly.Yes, the marital age differences are a little shocking to us today, but back then it was more about a person's position than their age. It's still the same way in some countries, although I think we're seeing that disappear. We see it as horrible today, but it wouldn't have been looked at the same way then, so it's hard to say whether it's really wrong or not, or just a perception of society. Plus, there's a vast different between 12 and 16, even if IMO both are too young to be thinking seriously about marriage. In a time period when women had no other prospects than marriage, household and children, there wasn't much point in waiting on all those counts.
Here's my review after finishing yesterday:This was the first published of Jane Austen's novels and it sets the tone for her wonderful career. While many of her character types will be repeated in later novels, she brings them to life brilliantly in this first story. Some of the characters, such as Mrs. John Dashwood and Lucy, are near ridiculous, while others are fun and friendly, other calm and sensible. The whole entourage makes for a delightful, lightweight story that takes you back to earlier days in England, when women for the most part had nothing to do but grow up, try to catch a rich husband, marry and produce children, with little time or ability in society to do much else. The exploits and heartbreaks feel very real, though, and it's easy to get caught up in the time.
I haven't watched a chick flick in awhile (normally they drive me nuts, they're so sickeningly sweet and cheesy) but decided to try "From Prada to Nada" in honor of this month's read. I have to say, I was much more impressed than I expected to be. I quite enjoyed it, actually, and even got teary-eyed at one point (though this is the only time I'm admitting it and no amount of bribery will force me to later!) and was pleasantly heart-happy at the end. Now I gotta see if I can get one of the more traditional versions from Netflix.
“That is what I like; that is what a young man ought to be. Whatever be his pursuits, his eagerness in them should know no moderation, and leave him no sense of fatigue.”Marianne on Willoughby's character --- I just thought this line is typical Marianne --- so caught up with her emotions.
Ms. Austen does such a wonderful job of staying true to the picture she presents if each character --- every line every description is perfectly in line with the persons character.
Has anyone started watching the film adaptations? Which ones are a must see? I almost done reading and want to start watching this weekend....
Just sent out my latest Netflix disk, so I should have a new version here on Thursday. I've only seen "From Prada to Nada" since starting this challenge, and I was surprised how much I enjoyed it. It's not exactly true to the story, of course, since it's a modernized adaptation, but I thought it was very cute. I normally can't stand most modern chic flicks because they are SO over the top, but that was just fun escapism.
Kimberly wrote: "Has anyone started watching the film adaptations? Which ones are a must see? I almost done reading and want to start watching this weekend...."2008 version because of Willoughby and Edward actors :P
Kimberly wrote: "Has anyone started watching the film adaptations? Which ones are a must see? I almost done reading and want to start watching this weekend...."I just watched Scents and Sensibility last night. I found it on TV last week and DVR'ed it.(surprise) I really did not enjoy it. It was sweet enough but very cheap and phony.
I must thank Good Reads and Zeljka for this!!! Now the post here, won't be too short!!!!!!To say that I am pleased with myself would indeed be an understatement. I am extremely pleased with myself!
Yup, I have completed Sense and Sensibility! It was a great, difficult journey with a treacherous winding path (long sentences!), never did I feel I am reading a sugary slop which what these YA writers pass off as a romance. Reading Sense and Sensibility involved much of those grey cells to churn that there were times indeed when I felt I couldn’t continue. But of course, with true grit, perseverance and that never give up spirit so firmly entrenched in a soul as resolute and firm as Yours Truly, Vismay Harani, leaving the book half read, was out of question!!!!!!!!!
Jokes aside, it was indeed a different kind of read, very much different from what I regularly do. You may find me cozying up with the aliens and psychotic killers, but find me reading a novel dealing with the vexation of heart, I would definitely blush! But now, I am indeed intrigued with Jane Austen. I found her extremely astute in her observation of the people belonging to the upper echelon of the society with all the time in the world to stand and stare. Characters splattered across this text possess remarkably different character traits and behavior. From stony lass to bony less, free-spirited mothers to mothers with a strangulating grip, vain men, lazy lords, thoroughly vigorous and animated young lovers to thoroughly wasted lot, this book indeed would be a treat to all those whose appetite is whetted with the study of human behavior.
The story itself is straight forward. We have Elinor (the character I liked the most in the book) – a calm, well-poised, rational girl who faces her share of crisis with fortitude and forbearance, not giving in to her emotions, in short, a girl possessing remarkable ‘Sense’. Indeed of course, in Ms. Austen’s own words, Elinor was a girl possessing ‘…a strength of understanding, and coolness of judgment, which qualified her, though only nineteen, to be the counselor, to the advantage of them all…’ On the other hand, we have her sister – Marianne, a girl who strongly indulges in her every emotion – agony, felicity, gloom or hope. In short, a highly concentrated dose of passion is inoculated in her person. Hence she is one with strong ‘Sensibility’. She was ‘…eager in everything: her sorrows, her joys, could have no moderation. She was generous, amiable, interesting: she was everything but prudent…’ The book describes their initial travails and disappointments in love, only to have a very happy ending for all the characters concerned.
If your eyes are not stressed overmuch, I would like to engage them to the sketches of the few very interesting characters and comic (to the otherwise unconcerned objective reader) situations.
First and foremost would be that of Mr. and Mrs. John Dashwood. Mr. John Dashwood is the half brother of Elinor and Margaret. Right in the second chapter, we come to understand their characters greatly and more clearly than anywhere else in the book. The duo, with a strong resemblance of disposition (though the wife is infinitely colder) discusses what Mr. Dashwood should do in respect of the last wish of his father. The reasoning which they involve in is indeed baffling, at the same time, inspite of what he is about to do, soothes the dregs of John’s ‘vain-conscience’. Indeed they are described as strong caricature of each other – cold-hearted and selfish.
Sir John Middleton, on the other hand, a kind-hearted person, can be described by this one statement. ‘Marianne’s performance was highly applauded. Sir John was loud in his admiration at the end of each song, and as loud in his conversation with the others while each song lasted.’ His behavior was similar to that of his wife’s mother Mrs. Jennings and her younger daughter Mrs. Palmer. His wife on the other hand is refined, polished, graceful yet concerned only about her children.
Of course, half of this book centers on Willoughby. Almost the male counterpart of Marianne, he turns out to be a Pandora’s Box in the life of Marianne. Willoughby augments her passions, and they are almost similarly minded. They cannot stand idiots. And in defense of those very idiots, Elinor censures them both, ‘But perhaps the abuse of such people as yourself and Marianne will make amends for the regard of Lady Middleton and her mother. If their praise is censure, your censure may be praise, for they are not more undiscerning, than you prejudiced and unjust.’
The other half would indeed stir around Colonel Brandon and Edward Ferrars. Willoughby had indeed taken a strong dislike of Colonel Brandon, as he says, ‘I have three unanswerable reasons for disliking Colonel Brandon: he threatened me with rain when I wanted it to be fine; he has found fault with the hanging of my curricle, and I cannot persuade him to buy my brown mare.’ But indeed you wouldn’t find a more kinder and respectable heart, for though with only vestiges of previous animation remained inside him, he turned out to be a more pivotal character in Marianne’s life than Willoughby.
Edward Ferrars is a kind of person who always stumbles upon ‘to-be-or-not-to-be’ kind of situations and remains totally indecisive, though of course, he is respectable and a very honorable man. Elinor, who herself is in love with him, defends him by saying, ‘…he is by no means deficient in natural taste, though he has not had the opportunities of improving it.’
A special mention must be made of Lucy Steele, an enterprising lady when it comes to her own interest and extremely jealous of Elinor that she does not let an opportunity go by in slighting her. She of course flatters her way by to skirt out any obstruction in her path!
Robert Ferrars is a vain man. Indeed his story is best described by, ‘….the vanity of one had been so worked on by the flattery of the other, as to lead by degrees to all the rest.’
Mrs. Dashwood, mother of Elinor and Marianne, is a free-spirited woman, always having the interest of her daughters at heart, though allowing them to let their wings flutter freely. Though in disposition, she is strikingly similar to Marianne.
Phew! That was tiring. Now I can return to Aliens for a week or two, before further enterprising to read next of Jane Austen’s novels. It was indeed a pleasurable reading!!!!
Alana wrote: "For those who have not read Pride & Prejudice yet, I'll put this in a spoiler: [spoilers removed]"Someone pointed this one a few days ago. I have no idea, hmmm
Vismay wrote: "I must thank Good Reads and Zeljka for this!!! Now the post here, won't be too short!!!!!!To say that I am pleased with myself would indeed be an understatement. I am extremely pleased with myse..."
Hehe, it was a pleasure reading your account.
I have really enjoyed reading everyone's comments, quotes, and responses. Thank you all for the movie recommendations! I am going to start this weekend.Anway, I am listening to S&S on audio by Juliet Stevenson (awesome reading)....today as I was walking into to work I got to the part where Marianne is deathly ill at Cleveland, and Elinore thinks Brandon has brought her mother from Barton Cottage. Instead Willoughby is at the door ---- I screamed out loud (and everyone looked at me as if I had lost my mind). This must have been how Elinore felt upon seeing him... And then this he has the nerve to go on and beg for forgiveness. Not a good start to my work day.
I have read this book a few years ago, but have forgot the intricate details...I just couldn't believe that he had the nerve to show up to see about Marianne....SCOUNDREL....
Anyway, I am enjoying the read and I think that his is going to be an interesting year filled with the works of Ms. Austen...
:)
Just finished the 1995 version with Emma Thompson and Hugh Grant, etc. It was a very true, very sweet adaptation that made me smile and feel sad in all the right places. It was delightful enough to (almost) make me forget that the main male protagonist was played by the ever-boring Hugh Grant (I know, I know, I'm the only woman in the world who can't stand the man, but that's my stance and I'm stickin' to it). It's so strange to see Alan Rickman in the role of the steadfast lover after watching him for so many years as the is-he-evil-or-good? Professor Snape in Harry Potter (even though I know this film was done when The Philosopher's Stone was just a twinkle in Rowling's eye). And lo, and behold, who else should I see of Harry Potter fame but Imelda Staunton, our hateful Dolores Umbridge! She did such a great job in the role of Mrs. Palmer, even better than I had pictured the character while reading her. And Hugh Laurie is always a riot; he was so great with his sarcasm.
Alana wrote: "Just finished the 1995 version with Emma Thompson and Hugh Grant, etc. It was a very true, very sweet adaptation that made me smile and feel sad in all the right places. It was delightful enough to..."Oh you not the only one about Hugh Grant, haha :)
Wow that's fantastic that you finished Sense and Sensibility. It kind of encourages me to try it again. I really struggled getting through it before. I didn't make it.
Carol wrote: "Wow that's fantastic that you finished Sense and Sensibility. It kind of encourages me to try it again. I really struggled getting through it before. I didn't make it."Carol I listend to it on Audible read by Juliet Stevenson ---- she does a wonderful job and you might enjoy the listen. It was great.
I listened to it as well. I love listening to classics on audio; it makes them come to life so much better for me. It's easier to hear the nuances and beauty of the language and really slow down to understand the story.
What a wonderful idea. Thanks for letting me know.
A fun, witty, and entertaining book with great social commentary and tongue in cheek humor!The two sisters view life and people very differently: one has a very open and free heart whereas the other sister is much more cautious. I found that I identified more with Elinor but wished I could be more like Marianne!
I have just downloaded the Livravox app on my Barnes and Noble tablet. I have been listening to Moby Dick. I plan to do the same thing with Sense and Sensibility. These audio books are free, and the app only costs a dollar. Lots of fun.
Claire I agree with you! I really enjoyed the humor and the mirror images (Elinore & Marianne/ Willoughby & Edward/ Mr and Mrs Middleton) it was nice to see the exact opposite so close at hand!!!
There is one and only one film version of an Austen book that achieves the level of art on its own merits. And we've chosen the book it was based on! I'm talking about Emma Thompson's Sense and Sensibility. It's the only adaptation that is luminous and takes on a life of its own.
Shelley
Rain: A Dust Bowl Story
http://dustbowlstory.wordpress.com
Exactly Kimberley! I agree about the Emma Thompson/Kate Winslet movie being a brilliant adaptation - love it!
I just watched it the other day and thoroughly enjoyed it.
Marren wrote: "Vismay wrote: "I must thank Good Reads and Zeljka for this!!! Now the post here, won't be too short!!!!!!To say that I am pleased with myself would indeed be an understatement. I am extremely pl..."
thanks Marren..........:-)
Well its the last week of S&S, and I was wondering what everyone thinks is Austen's take away....maybe that you need a bit of both Sense and Sensibility in matters of the heart....Since at the end Elinore finally has an outward expression/outburst of love for Edward, and Marianne acquires some sense and marries Col Brandon....thoughts???Also, who is your favorite/worst character? I was absolutely aggravated by Lucy Steele (just terrible) and equally disturbed by Fanny & her husband. I think I most love Elinore, because she tries her best to maintain her family situation despite her own feelings.
Lastly, I am watching the 1995 adaptation and they have really played up this relationship between Robert and Lucy (more so than in the book). I guess it would help a moviegoer ---- but I prefer the way Austen develops/explains their hook-up.
Nevertheless ---- this project is off to a roaring good start. Can't wait to begin Pride & Prejudice. Is anyone going to listen to it on Audbile? If yes, do you have a favorite narrator?
Thx, Kimberly
Is the 2008 BBC production better than the 2005? I am thinking about watching it ---- but would like some advice.
I'm reading whichever audio versions are available at the library, I think P&P is done by Nadia May.I really liked how Lucy Steele was done in the 1995 version. So coy, yet deceptively naive. Great performance! Made me absolutely despise her :)
Kimberly wrote: "Well its the last week of S&S, and I was wondering what everyone thinks is Austen's take away....maybe that you need a bit of both Sense and Sensibility in matters of the heart....Since at the end ..."I believe one needs both sense and sensibility when dealing with matters of the heart. Having only sense makes you practical but at the same time more prone to emotional heart attacks. Look how Elinor kept all her disappointments hidden so well, from everyone. On that oher hand, one just cannot walk around being sooo "mariannish." If you meet a jerk, like she did, your heart will be broken. Having a fair balance of both makes you better able to handle waves of heartfelt emotions.
My favourite was Elinor as well, I felt what she experienced. She held her family together after her dad died. She was so selfless putting everyone's needs before hers.
Fanny Dashwood takes the prize for most detestable person. From the moment she appeared she left a bad taste in my mouth. She convinced her husband to go against the promise he made to his father. She tried to control Edward's life, wanting him to form an attachment which benefited the family (for monetary reasons) and not for Edward. She only wants to be associated with folks who are wealthy, even if they were unkind it did not matter to her.
Marren wrote: "Kimberly wrote: "Well its the last week of S&S, and I was wondering what everyone thinks is Austen's take away....maybe that you need a bit of both Sense and Sensibility in matters of the heart......."Well said Marren! I totally agree with you.
Lesson #1: A little sense and sensibility are needed when dealing with matters of the heart!
Just getting started on the 1971 BBC adaptation. It's definitely not as high quality and the acting is somewhat lacking, but I think I'll still enjoy it. I'll post my thoughts on it when I'm finished.
Has anyone listened to the Libravox or Audio book - Sense and Sensibility? Just wondering.
Carol
Carol
Alana wrote: "Just getting started on the 1971 BBC adaptation. It's definitely not as high quality and the acting is somewhat lacking, but I think I'll still enjoy it. I'll post my thoughts on it when I'm finished."I am watching as well, hahaha...
Carol wrote: "Has anyone listened to the Libravox or Audio book - Sense and Sensibility? Just wondering.Carol"
I didn't do Librivox, I got a different one from the library, but I enjoyed it. One of the few narrators that actually read fast enough so the fast setting was perfect. Most of the library versions are usually pretty good, just make sure you get a copy that's unabridged.
Carol wrote: "Has anyone listened to the Libravox or Audio book - Sense and Sensibility? Just wondering.Carol"
Carol I tried the Librivox version, but the narrator read too slow for me. It just didn't work for me....hope it works for you!
The movies that we might see (if possible) and discuss after reading are: Sense and Sensibility (1981), Sense and Sensibility (1995), I Have Found It (2000), Sense and Sensibility (2008), From Prada to Nada (2011) and Scents and Sensibility (2011).
If you have seen any other interesting movies inspired by or adapted from this book, please tell us :)