Glens Falls (NY) Online Book Discussion Group discussion
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ABOUT BOOKS AND READING
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What are U reading these days? (PART NINE (2013) (ongoing thread for 2013)
Actually, alcohol isn't cooked away as much as people think, generally only 40% is. Besides, it leaves its taste, which is a teaser. I won't even drink sparkling cider because of that. I can smell strong rums & brandies in food from an amazing distance.When you're an alcoholic/addict, total abstinence is the only way to stay sober. It's amazing how subtle the triggers can be, too. We have to stay away from all 'mood altering' substances & that means a lot of them can just alter us psychologically, not physically.
I try to spread this news because so many nonalcoholics don't understand it & try to foist party food & drinks on us during the holidays. Don't. If you have an alcoholic/addict in the family or as a friend, be aware that even cooking with vanilla made with an alcohol base can be a trigger for them. Holidays are very emotionally charged & tough on those attempting to toe the line, especially during the first decade.
Yeah, not just a year, but a full decade. Even after that long people have slipped. I knew one guy with well over a decade sober who started drinking 'nonalcoholic' beer & wound up drinking a case a day. It actually contains less than 0.5% alcohol which means a case is about the equivalent of a 6 pack of regular beer. Another old timer got hooked on Nyquil which has an alcohol content about like brandy. The nonalcoholic varieties have drugs that make it just as bad for us.
It's tough to live with an 'allergy' to things that everyone else takes for granted. Doctors, who should know better, are constantly trying to give us mood altering drugs, but it's even tougher when you're dear old Aunt or best friend sabotages your sobriety when they just want to spread the cheer.
So be aware, but don't be condescending. Warn them matter of factly about food with alcohol in it & then drop it. It's their choice & constant reminders make them feel like a child. They probably have enough self-esteem issues to deal with.
Thanks for the advice, Jim. Some of what you said are not well known facts. I have never really believed that cooking dilutes all traces of alcohol. Now, I know who I shouldn't serve my slices of fruitcake to, and won't.
Jim, thanks for sharing that. And thanks for educating me on my misconception about alcohol being burned away in the cooking process; I'm always glad to learn something that's useful to know!
Glad to help. Even a lot of people trying to get sober don't know all this. There's a lot to learn about it & I've been trying for over 25 years. My father died from alcoholism when he was 35 & one son just celebrated 6 years of sobriety, so it is near & dear to my heart.
Jim, thanks! Some of that I knew, and some was news. What I found surprising was the vanilla, I had no idea!
Strange when some of those hints are so important there is not much news forthcoming about them. There should be.
Has anybody read, "Killing Jesus?" One of my friends said she wished her pastor had read it before giving hs sermon so he could fill in the background about what his sermos was about. She also said the writing wasn't good but the book intriging..
Nina, which of these book is the one you are referring to?Killing Jesus: A History by Bill O'Reilly, Martin Dugard
Killing Jesus: The Hidden Drama Behind the World's Most Famous Execution by Stephen Mansfield
It's the one by Bill O'Reilly, Martin Dugard
Thanks, Nina. In his review, Jim referred to the review of James Kirk Wall at the link below.An excerpt:
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"It’s hard to recommend a book that’s so biased in its portrayal of history. For anyone who decides to read Killing Jesus, my advice is to be aware of what are true accounts of history and what is selective and sugar coated hearsay."
-James Kirk Wall
FROM: http://www.chicagonow.com/an-agnostic...
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Nina, I put it on my 'do-not-read' shelf, although I have one of O'Reilly's on my 'to-read' shelf. From the couple of reviews I read, he didn't do a great job from a factual point of view. Since I'm not a Christian, I'm definitely not interested in anything biased in that direction, though.
I finished Relentless, gave it 4 stars. D. Koontz can write suspense very well but often the ending isn't all that great. I started Sherwood last night https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/4...
Nina, I've never read any of Bill O'Reilly's books, including the one you asked about (and don't watch his TV show, either), so I have no opinion or recommendation about it one way or the other. But a book on the subject that I have read and can recommend is Who Moved the Stone?: A Skeptic Looks at the Death and Resurrection of Christ. My review (for whatever it's worth) is here, if you're interested: www.goodreads.com/review/show/25772834 .
Werner wrote: "Nina, I've never read any of Bill O'Reilly's books, including the one you asked about (and don't watch his TV show, either), so I have no opinion or recommendation about it one way or the other. B..."It was an interesting take on the book and I was more impressed until I saw his email address ended in "agonostic."
Jackie, Sherwood sounds like interesting historical fiction. Right now I'm reading The Scottish Bride which is probably considered chic-lit (romance genre, historical fiction) but I'm enjoying it because it's an escape to a different place in a different era (around 1815). Catherine Coulter usually tells a good story.
PS-I'm also currently reading Mrs. Lincoln's Dressmaker. Interesting light historical fiction. I mentioned this book here earlier this month. I'm still reading it. :)
I think Coulter is more historic fiction than chick-lit. I read this by her: https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/8..., gave three stars.
Jackie, since it's the romance genre, I figured it might be considered Chick-Lit.
Not always. There's a little romance in almost everything. When it's 'the story' itself, then I consider it chick lit, but also needed to fit the chick lit designation, it has to be mind candy, all fluff and no substance.
Jackie, I just checked my old records. It shows that over the years I've read the following books by Coulter:The Heiress Bride
The Duke
The Wild Baron
The Offer
Riptide
The Heir
Beyond Eden
Evening Star
Night Shadow
Jade Star
The Courtship
The Nightingale Legacy (Not liked)
Lord Harry (Not liked)
The Courtship (Not liked)
Gee, I didn't realize I had read that many. Of course, they're easy reading.
Jackie wrote: "Not always. There's a little romance in almost everything. When it's 'the story' itself, then I consider it chick lit, but also needed to fit the chick lit designation, it has to be mind candy, ..."Glad to know it's not Chick Lit. :)
I checked out the definition of the term. Seems to vary.
http://www.onelook.com/?w=chick+lit&a...
I guess it's different depending on the person. What I said earlier, that's my take on it, probably not the standard definition, lolYou've read a lot of Coulter, if I knew you liked her I would have given you the one I read. I gave it to the library. I try to find a person I know who'll like the books I've read, if I can't then the library gets them, though I do prefer they go to friends.
I guess I think of Chick Lit as something a man wouldn't usually enjoy. Personally, I don't usually enjoy stories about the problems of contemporary women. I HATE house-wifey stuff. Take me to another era and it's a better escape for me. I read for escape. I also like to read biographies.Yes, please save me the Coulter books. Good light reading. Thanks!
If I get new Coulter books, they'll go right to you, Joy. I see what you mean about men not enjoying chick lit, I agree with that, though I didn't think about it. I read for escape too, always have, always will.
Nina wrote: "It was an interesting take on the book and I was more impressed until I saw his email address ended in "agonostic.""Why would that harm the book? I would think an agnostic validating a central part of a religious myth would be a good thing.
Right or wrong, I felt it "colored" his thinking and perhaps his comments were no more factual than what he was complaining about. However, I can't say much further as I haven't read the book. I will make my final decision based on what I think after I read it. Maybe, I will agree with him or maybe not.
Nina wrote: "Right or wrong, I felt it "colored" his thinking..."I would think a believer or an atheist would be more likely to be biased than an agnostic. The former two have their minds made up on the subject of god(s) while the last saying they don't know & want to spend the time figuring it out. I think it's a waste of time since it won't change anyone's mind, but people have all kinds of strange hobbies.
Whatever, it is interesting getting a glimpse into someone else's mindset.
Jim wrote, "The former two have their minds made up on the subject of god(s) while the last saying they don't know & want to spend the time figuring it out." Jim, am I guessing correctly that what you meant to write, concerning agnostics, is that they "DON'T want to spend the time figuring it out?" (Actually, that would describe many, but not all, agnostics; some have varying degrees of interest in exploring the question, but just don't yet feel that they have the answer.)Interestingly, it's far from unheard of for atheists to become theists, and vice versa. That would suggest that neither group monolithically consists of people who are completely closed-minded to any other viewpoint (though some undoubtedly are). True, changes of that magnitude in someone's worldview aren't usually caused solely by reading a book presenting arguments for the other side; it stands to reason that there are many internal factors in a person's consciousness that have to make them ready for such a step. Persons who make it, though, often say that logical argumentation or evidence played a role in convincing them, or in validating the change of viewpoint. As long as that's the case, writers who engage in presenting cases for their point of view (whichever it is) have some objective reason to think their time isn't always altogether wasted, IMO.
Regarding the current discussion about theists, atheists and agnostics, I believe that early indoctrination makes it difficult for a person to be open-minded. I am going to explore the concept of indoctrination further. I think it has a huge bearing on whether a person is a believer or an atheist. I never understood the position of an agnostic. That requires more exploration as well.For a person to change his belief system, I believe it takes a huge "life-changing moment" when he sees the light one way or another. There's a word for this but I can't think of it.
Joy, is the word you're looking for "epiphany?"
Werner wrote: "Joy, is the word you're looking for "epiphany?""Yes, Werner! That's it! Thank you.
Epiphany: "A comprehension or perception of reality by means of a sudden intuitive realization"
Werner wrote: "Jim, am I guessing correctly that what you meant to write, concerning agnostics, is that they "DON'T want to spend the time figuring it out?"..."No, I meant what I wrote. Most believers do so due to 'faith', a belief without any evidence in their particular mythology that is often fostered by early indoctrination. No amount of logic or lack of consistency seems to sway their view. Most atheists I know have come to their belief through reason & a general disappointment, if not an outright hatred, of some particular religion & many are as fanatical in as any religious believer.
While it's not unheard of for people to switch their views, most mature into one & pretty much stick to it, although I've known a lot who called themselves atheists who went back to believing in religion in times of hardship. I tend to think of them as strayed sheep, lacking in conviction. (I can sympathize, it's a hazy area & a big universe. Whatever gets them through the night.)
Believers have already rationalized the inconsistencies in their version of the Bible & still believe, so why bother with logic or proof? The same holds true with the atheists who don't want to believe & will just move on to some other inconsistency, so I don't believe a book that proves/disproves one facet through scientific or historic evidence would sway anyone.
And this is why I think an agnostic would be the best to look at the evidence & evaluate it. Most agnostics I know, don't believe the questions are properly formed or are continually reformulating them, so could have both the interest & the proper skeptical attitude for a good investigation.
Thanks for clarifying that, Jim. (I don't have a problem with honest agnostics who want to spend some time figuring out their position for themselves before they commit one way or the other; that's a good thing to do!)
Joy H. wrote: "Regarding the current discussion about theists, atheists and agnostics, I believe that early indoctrination makes it difficult for a person to be open-minded. I am going to explore the concept of i..."I agree, early indoctrination does close a lot of minds. It's the only explanation I've seen for so many people believing in religions, especially today with so much scientific explanation that contradicts them.
Some of the rationalizations that our local Baptists string together with intentional ignorance to believe their interpretation of their Bible over contrary scientific evidence is incredible. They insist the entire world was flooded, Noah packed all the animals in the ark, & the world is only 6000 years old. We're also the only intelligent life in the universe because The Bible (King James version) tells them so.
They use their religion like a club to beat people with & are incredibly intolerant. They're plain scary. I could see them burning people at the stake for heresy very easily. They make me lose all respect for & make me very wary of any religion since it is such an easy trap to fall into. The constant example of closed-minded, ignorant, intolerant Christians isn't a good one. We all take things on faith, have our prejudices, & it's tough to know when to re-examine core beliefs, especially since everything is so complicated today. There's just too much information to process, but those who won't even try just disgust me.
Jim, there's one thing I learned from my sister. My sister and I have opposing religious beliefs. One day I felt the same feeling which you expressed above. My sister reminded me that it doesn't really make any difference what we believe because it doesn't change a thing about our life here on earth. None of us here on earth will ever know the truth about which belief is the correct one. So we just have to go on, regardless of what others believe. It really makes no difference. The main rule should be that we should harm no one (if they don't harm us), no matter what they believe. That's what it comes down to.
Not harming anyone else with or for a faith is the key, Joy. Unfortunately, bigots & idiots telling me that I'm going to Hell because I don't believe in their particular delusion is harmful - a fairly minor one, but when they won't get off my porch, it irks me. When they say mean things & proclaim it is "The Truth because Jesus is my savior", I have trouble staying civil. I told one of the last guys that I bet Shiva could beat up Jesus. He told me I worshiped devils. He didn't even get the sarcasm. You'd think these people would get the hint, though.Trying to pass off their beliefs as similar to science is much worse. We've learned a few things about how the world works over the years. Not everything by a long shot, but ignorantly proclaiming the world is still flat just uses up time, energy, & patience better spent elsewhere.
Religion is fine as a tool to help people come to terms with the universe & achieve a general set of common morals, but the concept of 'god' is too big to fit in one religion for any large group of people, IMO. It needs to allow everyone some elbow room, especially with our current technology which allows us to interact with people halfway around the globe as easily as if they were in the next room. Not everyone believes in some flavor of 'insert-your-religion-here' nor in an afterlife. Religious folks just need to get over themselves.
Joy, I'm thinking that this discussion might be veering away from the main focus of the thread. Would you be comfortable with the idea of my starting a separate thread for it (hopefully later this evening, when I have more time), so that no one will feel like this thread is being hijacked? (I apologize if any of my comments have made anyone feel that way!)
Jim, it can be annoying when people proselytize. It's best to try to become inured to that sort of thing. I have an in-law who loves to argue about religion. He has a way of insinuating that those who don't follow his creed are sinful. I try to avoid the subject when we're together. It's best to stay out of the arena. Otherwise he raises one's blood pressure. :)One thing we should thank many religions for is that they establish a moral code for some people who might not have good morals otherwise. Of course, atheists/agnostics have a moral code but it's based on ethical principles rather than dogma. The most we can hope for is that human beings follow some sort of moral code which fosters good actions and behavior.
There are humanistic societies which foster ethical behavior. I wish the schools would teach some of their principles.
Here are some links about the ethical culture movement:
http://www.nysec.org/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethical_...
"A man's ethical behavior should be based effectually on sympathy, education, and social ties; no religious basis is necessary. Man would indeed be in a poor way if he had to be restrained by fear of punishment and hope of reward after death."
-Einstein
Werner wrote: "Joy, I'm thinking that this discussion might be veering away from the main focus of the thread. Would you be comfortable with the idea of my starting a separate thread for it (hopefully later this..."That would be fine, Werner. A good idea, in fact. I'm not sure I have much more to say on the subject. I think we've talked ourselves out. :) But another thread would be fine. Feel free!
At least the subject that "Killing Jesus," raised brought out interesting views and discussions. I enjoyed reading each of them. And Werner I think that subject can never be ended so go for it.
Einstein got it right. Unfortunately, a lot apparently do & even that doesn't work.
Joy H. wrote: "Regarding the current discussion about theists, atheists and agnostics, I believe that early indoctrination makes it difficult for a person to be open-minded. I am going to explore the concept of i..."From what I have read C.S. Lewis had a life changing ethos when he converted to Cathololism.
Actually, Nina, he converted to Anglican Christianity (from atheism). It was his friend J. R. R. Tolkien who was a Roman Catholic. But he did undergo a serious, life-changing reorientation, as he describes in his book Surprised by Joy.The new thread, "Thoughts About Religion/Faith," is up and running. Here's the link, for anyone interested: www.goodreads.com/topic/show/1588547-... .
Thank you, Joy for pointing out my mistake. I really had thought C.S. Lewis was a Roman Catholic. I might have assumed that when I read he returned to Christianity. I googled and read that he suddenly decided to go back to it while riding one summer in 1929 while riding on a double decker bus.
Nina wrote: "Thank you, Joy for pointing out my mistake. I really had thought C.S. Lewis was a Roman Catholic. ..."Nina, it was Werner who posted the correction.
Werner, thanks for starting the new thread. I see that you properly placed it in the section called: "Topics Other Than Bks-Pics-TV". I'll go there right now and take a look at it.https://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/...
Today I got a free audio book from audible.com!It's The Wonderful Wizard of Oz read by Anne Hathaway.
See their online page about this at:
http://www.audible.com/pd/Classics/Th...
(Listen to a sample by clicking on the sample-arrow at the above link.)
As I've mentioned before, I'm a subscriber to audible.com. This month, for Thanksgiving, they are giving out this free audio-book to their members as a gift. Below is the email they sent:
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Dear [Joy],
With Thanksgiving upon us, we thought it the perfect time to share The Wonderful Wizard of Oz, a warm and whimsical celebration of the universal theme "there's no place like home." This book has stirred the imagination of story lovers, young and old alike, for more than 100 years. In this performance, Academy Award-winning actress Anne Hathaway is nothing short of masterful in her narration of the beloved classic, invoking a seemingly endless variety of voices for the charming, mysterious, and sometimes evil characters.
We hope you enjoy this family favorite listen, as well as your holiday.
Happy Thanksgiving,
The Audible Team
=================================================
NOTE: The best thing about Audible.com is the ease of access to each audio-book. There is an "Audible Manager" page in your computer where all the audiobooks you've gotten in the past are listed. With one click on the title, you are listening. I keep the "Audible Manager" on my desktop. It's my place to go when my eyes are tired I want an easy read.
It's easy to re-read (i.e., re-listen) to any of the titles on the list. I often do this because sometimes it's like listening for the first time. So it's "renewable". I'm sure getting my money's worth (around $14.95 a month)!
I just finished listening to A Canticle for Leibowitz by Walter M. Miller Jr.. Amazing, I finally got through it! My 4 star review is here:https://www.goodreads.com/review/show...
I find it interesting that both Werner & I liked it so much given the material. We did have different takes on it, but both agreed that it is a classic.
Currently, I'm listening to A Galaxy Trilogy, Vol. 2: Aliens from Space, The Man with Three Eyes and Conquest of Earth. It's made up of 3 old SF books. I've finished the first Aliens from Space by David Osborne (actually Robert Silverberg). My 3 star review is here:
https://www.goodreads.com/review/show...
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Glens Falls (NY) Online Book Discussion Group
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I'll echo Nina and Joy's "Happy Thanksgiving" wishes to all! (And ladies, as my oldest daughter might say, "Right back at ya!" :-) )