The Sword and Laser discussion

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Old Man's War
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OMW: Part I Summaries, Spoilers, and Comments
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* John Perry gets on the beanstalk, a space elevator, to Colonial Station.
* We meet Leon Deak, who Perry thinks farts more interestingly than speaks.
* Leon expounds on his “theory of the racial composition of the colonies”.
* After avoiding Leon, Perry returns to save Jesse Gonzales from his diatribes.
* Harry Wilson joins Jesse and Perry and talks a bit about beanstalk physics.
* Harry, Jesse, and Perry talk about the divide between Earth and the CDF.
My comments
I love the use of “beanstalk” for space elevator (p19). And, though I’d probably have second thoughts once aboard, being able to see out the transparent diamond composites as the Earth drops away sounds great.
Enjoyed (p24): ““You know this gentleman?” she asked me, with an undercurrent in her voice that implied that if I did, there was clearly something wrong with me.” And also (p29): ““Belief,” I said. “You believe that it won’t fall and it won’t. Try not to think about it too much or we’re all in trouble.””

* Harry, Jesse, and Perry wait on Colonial Station and discuss science more.
* We learn the name of the first intelligent aliens humans met: the Gehaar.
* Discussions about the 800 feet long Henry Hudson, their recruit ship.
* Waiting in the mess hall for Sam Campbell, colonial adjunct for the CDF.
* Introduction to the itinerary, PDA, room assignment, and how do ya do’s.
* John Perry gets Leon Deak as a roommate, who fell asleep in the bottom bunk.
* John, Harry, and Jesse silently watch the Earth shrink as they get underway.
* John meets Thomas Jane, Alan Rosenthal and Susan Reardon at mess hall breakfast.
My comments
Enjoyed (p47): ““Yeah, but I’m not going to die old,” Harry said. “I’m going to have a second chance to die young and leave a beautiful corpse. It makes up for missing out on it the first time.”” and the whole soaking of grenades in syrup and selfless acts conversation.
Knowing the name and summary of the second book made me appreciate the closing chapter comments about the Ghost Brigades (p56). I hoped that this would be the only mention of it in the book, providing a small Easter Egg.

* Perry meets Dr. Russell who does a physical, foreshadows, and causes pain.
* Jesse and her roommate Maggie join the original breakfast crew.
* The group talks about all their newly discovered medical ailments.
* Besides the initial physical, a bevy of evaluations and assessments occur.
* Language, math, visual acuity, building blocks, mazes, character recognition.
* Everyone gets pissed off about the getting pissed off room.
* Everyone gets perplexed about the sexy times and childhood room.
* The first assessment day: feats of intellect. The second: feats of strength.
* The group watches as the Henry Hudson skips to the Phoenix system.
* Perry meets with Dr. Russell again, and sees himself, fifty years ago.
My comments
Around p64, where Jesse laments about not having to worry about a gumball-sized cyst, I started getting impatient. The whole “oh noes, what’s going to happen to us” speculation seemed to go on and on, and I just wanted it to happen so we could all move on. Around p79, where John threatens to hit Dr. Russell during his second appointment, I started getting annoyed with the “grumpy old man” bit.

* Dr. Russell explains how they’re going to transfer John’s consciousness.
* John’s consciousness gets transferred into his modified green younger body.
* John reads “The New You, An introduction to your new body.” pamphlet.
* John gets introduced to his BrainPal™, names it A**hole, and fiddles.
* Jesse arrives at John’s room and throws herself upon him, literally.
My comments
I wonder how many times one can transfer, theoretically. We know that Dr. Russell has been transferred twice (p86), but when his current “normal” body gets old, will he be able to transfer again? I presume the answer would be no for normal colonists, but what about non-military still employed by the CDF?
I really liked the ending of the consciousness transfer (p89): “And there’s just one of me again. The other me. I can tell because I’m no longer staring at the new me anymore, I’m looking at the old one. And it stares at me like it knows something truly strange has just happened. And then the stare seems to say, I’m no longer needed. And then it closes it eyes.”
It really took me out of the story when Perry names his BrainPal™ “A**hole”. I get that it’s a mixture of grumpy-old-man mentality with a healthy dose of “new technology that can’t be all that great” skepticism, but I felt this was more of a childish and immature naming than anything “in character”. It only gets worse in the next chapter (p112), of course, when nearly everyone has named their interfaces something ridiculously cynical.
Around the end of the chapter, I started getting a nagging suspicion about Star Trek, partially informed by the title of Scalzi latest, Redshirts, a novel I haven’t read (this is my first Scalzi read). With TOS in mind, Jesse’s green erection-enlightening immediately envisioned her as an Orion slave girl. In hindsight, this won’t be the last Star Trek reference I think I see.

* Jesse and John have copious but friends-only sexy times.
* The Old Farts discuss their new bodies in the mess hall.
* Lieutenant Colonel Bryan Higgee orders the recruits to “Have fun”.
* “Have fun” translates to copious copulation. Maggie does so with John.
* Various other activities and skills are tried with their new bodies.
* Higgee provides “morning after” “yer gonna die” pill.
* The Old Farts get split up, though they vow to stay in contact.
My comments
This gets “explained” a bit later in the chapter, but my immediate “huh?!” to the beginning of the chapter is why a scientifically engineered body has to be so sexy. I’m not sure I really “buy” the whole sexiness angle, especially with the later stated statistic that over 75% of the recruits will die (p119). It doesn’t really sound like the rationale for “marvelously firm and full breasts” with Nipple-Pointing Action™, is helping the status quo at all (p104).


I would suspect there is both a limit to the human brain's capacity to remember more things and a limit to the human will to keep living. After 185 or 235 years (75+10+50*#Transfers), which is 3 or 4 transfers and the approximate length of the CDF/CU, you might start to feel like the more things change the more they stay the same and decide to opt out.
Re: BrainPal Names
I take it you are against profanity/expletives as a class of words? How would you react to a voice talking in your head? The Old Farts responded to acute stress by minimizing the experience. No matter who you are, everyone swears sometime. They just use different words to do it. Personally, I would have found "Josaphat" or "Dear God" more offensive. I guess it's a case of you can please some of the people some of the time, but you can't please every one all the time.
Re: Sexiness and Bonding
First, we don't know that the mortality rate wouldn't be worse without this feature. If 75% is bad (1:4 change of surviving), what about 95% (1:20)? Second, with a high mortality rate, there is a constant stream of new bodies in squads/platoons/companies. As Ruiz said, if you only get yourself killed, you've done well. If you find the guy beside you in the trench repugnant, you're not going to go out of your way to save his butt. I found the reasoning completely convincing, especially the part about liking yourself.


Leaving Earth and everything behind would be a hard choice to make, especially without knowing anything about what was on "the other side".

Their need bodies feel awesome, but now they belong totally to the military ; kind of a scary thought.
Must just be a difference in sense of humor. I found the swear names amusing. I'd probably have done the same at first, but probably renamed mine to Hal.

Yeah? Was wondering if anyone else did. That is - I read the ebook edition (though I purchase the paper edition too), and I take notes and highlights copiously, so ultimately the above is some cut and paste here and there. I can do one for Part II and III too.

Anyway, I'm enjoying the commentaries. Keep them up!
Louise wrote: "He thought himself, like everyone else before him, to be clever, and failed. "
I don't think that was the case. I think he simply was reacting to a frightening experience in a way that made him feel a little better.
He actually takes pride that so many others chose the same name.
I don't think that was the case. I think he simply was reacting to a frightening experience in a way that made him feel a little better.
He actually takes pride that so many others chose the same name.

I also found the Brainpal naming unrealistic. I personally have nothing against swearing but don't think that many would go that route. My thought at the time was I'd name mine Mycroft, after the computer in The Moon is a Harsh Mistress, which is in turn named after Mycroft Holmes.
The only other thing that's bothered me so far (which is the topic of another thread) is that the old people don't act like seniors that I know. I work in health care and meet at least a dozen people over 70 every day and maybe 10% are both as clever and pleasant as these characters are. Of course maybe the "old farts" are the cream of the 1000+ recruits and they gravitated towards each other. Also this type of character is standard in Heinlein's books which OMW is apparently inspired by.
Despite these quibbles I'm loving it so far.

It's true this book doesn't give a lot of answers. Rather, it implies a whole lot of questions on your behalf. I had a lot of questions by the end of OMW. Most of the big ones were answered for me in the sequels, which follow much more typical plot forms.
* On his seventy-fifth birthday, John Perry visits his wife's grave.
* He says his good-byes, then heads to the army recruitment offices.
* We read through the Colonial Defense Forces enlistment contract.
My comments
I felt disgruntled sadness from typical old-timer John Perry, an immense sigh that his life has been lived and it is time to begrudgingly move on or give up (“I visited my wife’s grave. Then I joined the army.”, p3), the cynical old man who “hate[s] visiting [the cemetery]” (p5) looking like an “old, damned fool” (p6), or who “[wanders] around looking for conversation” (p7).
I wonder how technologically advanced we are, given that a stroke is still unrecoverable or deadly (p5). “That’s aging’s trump card; they still can’t replace brains.” (p11) I like how this becomes possible once he’s joined up with the CDF: you’re not so much as replacing, but transferring.
There’s was once a recruiting office in my local mall too (p6), and it was tightly jostled between an Old Navy and a now-empty lot that used to be a D’Angelo and, before that, a Roly Poly. It’s since been replaced with an automated Proactiv machine. I regularly pine for Roly Poly to return.
I like the notion that, at a ripe old age, you can get ten more years back through medical or surgical techniques (p11), but only if you risk it in a war zone every day. I can see that being very seductive, and would probably sign-up too. “It’s a hell of a thing to say good-bye to your whole life” (p14), but you’re close enough to death to be saying so without a choice.
Being officially dead within seventy-two hours (p15), whether you’re off-planet or not, sounds deliciously chaotic. I can imagine a cadre of on-the-lam geezer assassins-for-hire, or a grumpy old revenger paying it backward for a lifetime of slants and upsettings.