Goodreads Authors/Readers discussion
III. Goodreads Readers
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Ever Get That Guilty Feeling When..
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Paganalexandria **wicked juices bubbling over** wrote: "L.E. wrote: "But I would never leave a poor review - it's a taste issue and apparently a lot of people like that thing so who am I to say it doesn't work!"
I have a friend that four or five star..."
LOL ! I know people like that, and God Bless 'em for being so sweet, but they shouldn't post reviews.
Reviews are WORTHLESS to authors and consumers if they are not honest.
I have received some very positive reviews for my book and I have received some SCATHING reviews for that same book :-) What I have noticed as they have piled up is that the positive reviewers pointed out similar things that they liked about the story...and....the negative reviewers pointed out similar problems with the book.
Collectively, the good and the bad have provided me with VALUABLE information that I will use to improve that book and publish a second edition. They have also helped me with the writing of the second book in that series.
Reviewers remember, what we do is a service for the writer and the reader. Keep those reviews honest. A bad review only hurts for a few minutes :-)
Carolyn wrote: "Keep those reviews honest. A bad review only hurts for a few minutes."I like that philosophy. Reviews are not personal. In most cases, the reader doesn't know the writer and has no particular bias.
I never relish the idea of leaving a bad review, but I do so to help other readers know what they're in for when they choose to spend their money on a book.
As an author, I don't mind "bad" reviews if they help me become a better writer. Readers are often insightful and I love to hear what they have to say. That said, "This book sucks" has never left me feeling warm and fuzzy.
Mary wrote: "As an author, I don't mind "bad" reviews if they help me become a better writer. Readers are often insightful and I love to hear what they have to say. That said, "This book sucks" has never left m..."Sometimes this is the only feedback you're going to get, it helps if it is encouraging even if it isn't positive. Nobody who enjoys writing should be dissuaded from doing so, but pointing out to a writer that they're not ready for publishing yet can be a kind thing to do, as long as it is done right and with good intentions.
Like Mary, as an author I would prefer an honest review. I can't learn from my mistakes if people don't point them out but they need to be constructive. What worries me is that I like to review everything I read but worry that if I hurt someone's feeling they will slam my work. I always try to be constructive and I am always clear that it is only my opinion.
Carolyn wrote: "1) I will not leave any review UNLESS I managed to stick it out for at least 50% of the book. It's just not fair to do it otherwise."I try, but if I quit a book because the author destroyed my suspension of disbelief early on in the novel, I will still leave a review. My reason for that is that authors ought to realize that they are not out of the woods if the first few chapters are well-edited. This is a major point with a lot of readers I talked to: authors polish the chapters they know will be in the sample, and don't pay attention to the rest because the suckers have bought the book by then.
The important thing is that writing is a career. You don't build a career on a polished four or five chapters. You build a career on providing your readership with an unequaled experience, something they cannot get from an other author. Every person who read my first book, read the other books and wants to read what I'm working on. I could complain that my readership is growing one or two readers at a time, but I'd rather grow an audience organically than try to cash in quickly by publishing books that are not ready to go to market.
H.J. wrote: "Like Mary, as an author I would prefer an honest review. I can't learn from my mistakes if people don't point them out but they need to be constructive."Reviews are for readers, not feedback for authors. That doesn't mean you cannot learn from reviews, but that's not what they're there for.
The way to learn from your mistakes is to subject your work to dedicated beta-readers and editors, who will tell you how to salvage your work before you publish. After you publish, you can take what you can from reviews and use the information to improve future works, but you shouldn't use paying customers as beta-readers.
H.J. wrote: "What worries me is that I like to review everything I read but worry that if I hurt someone's feeling they will slam my work."
You don't have to review books for that. Just state your opinions on these boards and you run the risk of getting 'slammed'. If you check my books, you'll find people who have 1-starred all my books unread. Not because my books are crap, but because they disagree with my opinions. I don't mind, I know that the smart readers will disregard the ratings and read the reviews or, better yet, sample my work.
You cannot leave your honest opinion without hurting someone's feelings. Especially those of the speshul snowflakes who are ultra-sensitive if you criticize their babies. Even if you wrap your criticism in praise, the speshul snowflake will only see the negative criticism and condemn you for not giving them a 5/5 rating. That's because most authors don't want criticism. They want praise, validation, adulation. They've been told their whole life that they are special and interesting and perfect. To tarnish their sense of entitlement by casting doubts on the perfection of their literary efforts will only be received with unadulterated rage.
So, either you kiss their asses or you give your honest opinion without caring about the consequences of the speshul snowflake authors.
Martyn V. wrote: "H.J. wrote: "Like Mary, as an author I would prefer an honest review. I can't learn from my mistakes if people don't point them out but they need to be constructive."Reviews are for readers, not ..."
Very well said Martin.
I actually wrote/posted a review a few days past. The author was actually using this very board, trolling for "honest" reviews for her fantasy novel.
Well,there was a lot wrong with it...not just a tad but A LOT. I tried to be as diplomatic as I could be and took great pains to explain why I gave it a 2 star rating, it really deserved a 1.
Well wouldn't you know that that particular author FLAGGED my review and posted a scathing comment to the review, printed, I am sure it would have been 3 or 4 pages. A big portion of her tantrum was about how I was not qualified to review her novel ! I might add, that I borrowed the book from Amazons' Lending Library, using up my monthly "borrowing" allowance,dang it! She did not give me a free copy.
She has lurked around every corner ever since, even followed me to Amazon I should probably be thankful she lives outside of the United States because if not for that, I might worry that she may show up on my doorstep with a taser...or worse!
She posted a silly review of my book, although she has not read it. I have reported her to GR but nothing has come from it yet.
All of that said, I absolutely refuse to edit my review or to kiss her ass. If she can't take the heat, she needs to get out of the kitchen.
Martyn V. wrote: "H.J. wrote: "Like Mary, as an author I would prefer an honest review. I can't learn from my mistakes if people don't point them out but they need to be constructive."Reviews are for readers, not ..."
Most don't want just praise and the proof is that few authors do those idiotic things you have described. I just got an email from a reader who pointed out that I had used the word "break" instead of "brake" in my latest book. I replied saying that this type of email is more valuable to me than the most extravagant praise.
Wow, Carolyn! Talk about a toxic author! Reacting like that is a grand way to ensure that nobody will review your book, and nobody will want to read it either.
I've had 9 or 10 novels published, and I do not look at reviews. I may look at the ones in magazines, published by professional reviewers, but that's it. I do not have the time and the stomach lining for this. So have at it, Goodreads reviewers. Post free!
Badly-behaved authors provide an instant "do not read" in my eyes. Whether their book looked interesting or not ceases to be a factor in my purchasing choice, once they start to argue with reviewers.Funny this should come up today..."Don't take it personally" is the topic of my blog post for this coming Monday (January 6). Though I don't mention names, I find a lot of my "research" here on GR as well as on Amazon. There's a lot of bad behavior out there.
Carolyn, for what it's worth, I thought your review was kind. I'm not sure why the author thought you'd only read one quarter of her book when you clearly stated you'd made it to the 60% mark, but maybe her math skills are as good as her coping skills.
I'll be honest: her book didn't look interesting to me, based on the genre she reads/writes. However, her awful response to you cemented my decision to not read it. Nor will I ever read any of her subsequent books. Her reply to your review not only showed immaturity, but it sounded like a public service announcement for meat-haters and environmentalists. I didn't quite understand that, either, since you made it clear that you had no problem with those who followed a vegan lifestyle. Your review kept coming back to the writing style and skill, focusing on awkward dialogue and lack of editing. That doesn't sound like an attack on the author's viewpoints to me.
Unfortunately for her, that response will be right there for potential readers to see if they decided to check out GR reviews prior to purchasing. They'll see your review, then they'll see her response, and they'll probably never see the inside of that book.
Stan wrote: "Martyn V. wrote: "H.J. wrote: "Like Mary, as an author I would prefer an honest review. I can't learn from my mistakes if people don't point them out but they need to be constructive."Reviews are..."
Yes Stan, Absolutely ! I had a review blogger generously offer to review my book. I was thrilled as other reviews he had written for other books were so comprehensive and complete.
Sadly, he did not care for it and instead of posting a negative review, he decided to email me directly. He gave me a detailed list of formatting and editing issues that he found, siting these as the reasons that he could not enjoy the book.
Although it stung a little, I took his critique as constructive criticism and I learned a lot from it. Even though he did not post his comments anywhere, other than to me directly, I STILL consider it the most valuable review I have ever received. In fact, he is responsible for my decision to publish a second edition of that book. I'll be starting the re-write in a couple of months.
Bottom line, our work is only as good as our readership believes it to be. Their opinions should be very important to us, and if we listen to them, we can grow and improve. If we don't, we run the risk of never flying as high as we can.
Brenda wrote: "Wow, Carolyn! Talk about a toxic author! Reacting like that is a grand way to ensure that nobody will review your book, and nobody will want to read it either.
I've had 9 or 10 novels published,..."
These are the exact people that keep people from reviewing books. As I have mentioned before, I got the strangest 1 star review on amazon. The review really didn't make any sense related to other reviews I received from professionals (including my professional copy-editors) so I have ignored it. I hope potential readers will too.
J.T. wrote: "Brenda wrote: "Wow, Carolyn! Talk about a toxic author! Reacting like that is a grand way to ensure that nobody will review your book, and nobody will want to read it either.
I've had 9 or 10 no..."
They probably will J.T. As an avid reader myself, I focus on the content of the review, and not the rating so much when I'm trying to decide whether or not to purchase a book. I think m-o-s-t people who use reviews to make their decision probably do the same thing.
I also look for consistency among the reviews. If 5 or more reviewers have the same opinion or site certain aspects of the work, I usually assume that I'll most likely feel the same way.
I think it should be against the rules somewhere to post a rating without also posting a review, and I think there should be stricter guidelines for review writers.
If you've gone to the trouble to "share" your like or dislike for a book, you should be required to tell the reasons why...one liner reviews aren't helpful either.
I got a 1 star review from a lady who won a copy of my book on a GR giveaway I was running. She did leave a review, she said,
"I could see every plot point coming from a mile away."
At the time that she posted her review, I had already received 20 others (not all positive either, let me tell ya, lol ) for the same book...nobody else had made a similar comment.
Although I respect this reviewers right to her opinion and her right to share that opinion with the rest of the planet...I would have rather she had not made any attempt at rating/reviewing the book. Her review will not really help potential readers to make a decision...and it won't help me as an author when I write the second edition.
I suppose, she hated it so much that she wanted to bring my rating down the best way she could.
Here is a helpful link:http://jmgregoirebooks.com/2014/01/03...
Which clearly shows that Carolyn's issues are by no means rare. I urge all authors to read this!
Brenda
Brenda wrote: "Here is a helpful link:http://jmgregoirebooks.com/2014/01/03...
Which clearly shows that Carolyn's issues are by no means rare. I urge all authors to read this!"
This was excellent. Thank you for posting this link, Brenda.
Loved the Gregoire link. As a new self-published author I do not have what I'll call Curmudgeon Rights, but I appreciate it when those who do speak plainly.I had already been given all this advice (in more genteel language) and applied it before publishing, because I joined Sisters In Crime, a group of traditional, self-published, and unpublished mystery authors. SinC helps its members polish their craft and get published, by organizing critique groups and swaps for works in progress, and they also have been a reliable source for quality editing and cover art. I recommend joining SinC and their branch the Guppies (The Great Unpublished) for the best education and support a writer could want. I am borderline in the mystery genre since I don't write about crime or murder (people's secrets are the mystery), but I am welcome in the group.
A few men have joined SinC, and many published authors remain active as mentors and to get further mentoring in the Guppies.
The Romance Writers of America have a similar program for people in that genre. RWA is a large and powerful organization with many local chapters. A young romance writer should take advantage of their offerings.For SF and Fantasy, go to www.critters.org. You can find beta readers and crit on a cooperative basis.
Remember that (unless you are rich) you want to get your work into the best shape you can -before- you hire a pro editor. Don't waste your money hiring an editor to do what is obvious, like fixing typos. And, finish the work first! Nobody will buy half a novel.
Brenda
Carolyn wrote: "Well wouldn't you know that that particular author FLAGGED my review and posted a scathing comment to the review, printed, I am sure it would have been 3 or 4 pages. A big portion of her tantrum was about how I was not qualified to review her novel!"Sounds like typical 'speshul snowflake' behavior. I bet you'd 'her kind of reviewer' if you had praised her crap into the heavens. Another confirmation that 'anyone can publish, but not everyone can write'.
Carolyn wrote: "I might add, that I borrowed the book from Amazons' Lending Library, using up my monthly "borrowing" allowance,dang it! She did not give me a free copy."
Providing a free review copy would be the least an author could do. You don't happen to review suspense fiction? :)
Carolyn wrote: "John wrote: "My dog loves to eat books. If I don't want to finish one, I just leave it on the floor.John Rachel, Author of . . .
http://amzn.to/122cnyF"
Did..."
Actually, I was a scholarly geek in high school. In order to keep up my strength late at night studying for an exam, I often ate my dog. We went through over 50 before the Humane Society caught up with us.
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But I would never leave a poor review - it's a taste issue and apparently a lot of people like that thing so who am I to say it doesn't work!"
I have a friend that four or five stars every book she reviews. She might only be very polite, and refusing to post bad reviews. I enjoying interacting with her and feel her to be as much of a friend anyone on the internet can be. Yet ignore any book she recs because she doesn't dislike anything.