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The Once and Future King by T H White - Discussions
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Yes, Lancelot's ugliness and self-doubt seems more plausible as motivation to 'be the best' than the usual 'drop-dead handsome' portrayal.I just looked up the book in Wikepedia, which told me Lancelot is a sadist in this book, trying to control this aspect of his nature. While this fits very nicely into pre-vampire/vampire type, I don't remember this at all? Did my psyche skate over this?
I can't wait to make a start on this. I keep looking to see if this thread contains spoilers before I pop in.Kath, have you ever seen a Channel 4 film entitled Merlin. It has Sam Neil in it and Helena Bonham Carter. It is utterly, I say utterly, wonderful.
Jean - nope, I've read this in its entirely several times and the sadist bit rings no bells at all. Still, Wikepedia eh?Andy, what do you think? A film? The telly? No, I haven't, but it sounds as though I should!
Andy - spoiler - everyone dies! Well, It was 1,500 years ago.
Here it is, Kath. I really hope you watch it. It's one of the best Merlin films I've ever seen.http://www.amazon.co.uk/Merlin-DVD-Sa...
Well, young Andrew. You've done it now. I 1-clicked a film. An ACTUAL film!
You won't regret it, Kath.I think it's about four hours long, split into two halves, so don't switch off after two hours, there's more to come.
It's one of those films I often watch, maybe twice a year. Lovely :)
Fantastic, Pat. You'll enjoy it, I know you will :)
We'll have to move this over to 'just watched' when we've all seen it! Start a discussion.
Love this one. The Disneyfied horror that you alluded to was one of my kids favorite films when they were young. It encouraged my daughter to go and find the book on my bookshelves and read it for herself.
I hated that Fiona. Probably because I knew the books first! I felt it somehow demeaned them to make them cartoony.
Ignite wrote: "I hated that Fiona. Probably because I knew the books first! I felt it somehow demeaned them to make them cartoony."Kids were 7, 4 and 3 so a bit difficult for them to read the books at the time. Both the 7 yr old and 3 yr old were and still are dyslexic.
I read it when I was 7 and didn't really understand all of it then; revisited it after reading Sir Gawain and the Green Knight and Malory's Le Mort d'Arthur as a teenager.
Yes, that's probably my point (only better put!) The cartoon makes it a children's story but the books say most definitely more than a child could take in. If you only visit this once, in cartoon form, you miss all the wisdom in there.
I think it's great if the cartoon takes you to the books but can only imagine disappointment the other way round (although I have a sneaky enjoyment of the battle between the witch and Merlin in the cartoon).
Many years have flown by since I read these books and I'm, rather belatedly, just setting out on a re-read. What sticks in my mind, and what no one has mentioned, are the graphic scenes of extreme cruelty (in book two, I think). Is my memory playing tricks?It tends to do that these days.
I don't know, because mine plays tricks too! I don't remember it being stick-in-the-mind stuff.
Something to do with dismembered unicorns and boil-in-the-bag cats. Maybe I was young and impressionable then. I could easily be thinking of the wrong book. I shall enjoy finding out.
As soon as I find it I'll tip you off. I can even provide the ingredients - well, maybe not the unicorns, but an inexhaustible supply of cats passes through my garden every day, lingering only to leave foul-smelling deposits and kill the occasional bird.
I don't remember these scenes but maybe that's where the Wikipedia sadism reference came from...
I've found the cat reference - Chapter One of The Witch in the Wood. A vivid description of the Queen lowering a live cat, with its legs bound, into a cauldron of boiling water. Not much of a recipe, Kath, just a mention of stirring the cat with a wooden spoon. The detailed account of the cat's death, and the coming apart of its body as it cooks, still disturbs me.I think I'll stick to turning the hosepipe on my unwelcome visitors.
I vaguely remember it. Isn't there some reference to fatty scum and hairs on the surface? I don't remember being especially disturbed by it. That probably tells you more than I'd like you to know about me! I can't imagine it wouldn't have happened though.
It was in keeping with her callousness though.
It was indeed. It's not a negative comment about the book, in fact it's a tribute to the author's skill in being able to describe the scene so well that it's stuck with me over the years.
I loved this book when I was a teenager, putting it on a par with Lord of the Rings and the Gormanghast trilogy. I think the long lasting appeal of King Arthur is that he was a man with doom walking at his shoulder. I wonder if there are any books with Mordred as the protagonist.
I also thought Launcelot was a fantastic creation. He's always portrayed as drop dead handsome and rather eager to take up with Guinevere. In White's story he's grotesquely ugly, unsure of himself and as you say, tortured by his love for his king and best friend's wife. That trio is handled magnificently here and much less glibly than usual.
Morgan - what a piece of work she is eh? Classically scheming and taking advantage of the young king in his first moments of success and enthusiasm. I loved the Orkney contingent too. Rough and hard! It's a great story and packed with wisdom and the understanding of human nature.