The Twelve: Part VIII: The Changeling.

[Carol/Bonadie]

The Twelve by Justin Cronin. This is the second in the trilogy begun in The Passage.

Since spoilers are allowed please only post contents related to the part referenced in the title. The first person posting might want to do a brief summary of what happens in the section, so we can be reminded of when to start (and stop) posting, contents-wise.

[Ann]

VIII The Changeling
Chapter 49 What are snow angels Dani?
Chapter 50 Worse than waterboarding
Chapter 51 Monopoly in a snowstorm
Chapter 52 What is that smell around the hardbody?
Chapter 53 Guilder fears a mutiny
Chapter 54 Lila and Dani plan an outing / Alicia is free

[Donnajo]

I found that the different names got confusing. eva/kate, sara/dani.
when sara was going to write a note and vale I believe she used her blood and a needle as a pen. things they come up in that stick with a person from books.
we find out what is in the basement. ugh digusting.
good chapter for the most part.

[Ann]

DJ: yes! ... not to have anything to write with at all in Lila's apartments - and to resort to pricking a finger with a needle to draw blood for ink. Sara was desperate to learn what Nina would tell her about the situation.

That is something that does really stick with you - after 100 years the deprivations from modern conveniences for most of the population are stark.

[Carol/Bonadie]

I've finished The Twelve and coming back to post on the final parts. I'm lucky to have a hard copy of the book, which I mostly listened to, to refresh my memory of the details.

Wolgast appearing and disappearing is a mystery. What really happened after he died? How did he get to lock Carter up in the ship or whatever it is? Did that happen before he died and I don't remember it? I don't get there connection, but pieces of the story of Carter are coming back to me. Wasn't he one of the jailees who, I forget, saved someone from drowning? When someone mentioned Rachel Wood, and how he loved her, and the body in the pool that kept rising, I remembered a slice of story about a woman who hired him to work around her house, and I think who defended him when he was accused of something, maybe a child abduction and murder. Does any of this sound familiar?

I bet only somewhere there is a complete list of characters and their entire backstories. That would have been helpful, I really didn't remember much from The Passage, so when characters got reintroduced I'd forgetten how they related to the story.

[Carol/Bonadie]

The whole development with Guilder taking blood to make himself immortal, particularly taking Grey's blood, was spooky (and disgusting). I guess the redeyes are the humans who have been taking viral blood and therefore are in some category between a human and a viral.

Alicia's capture and rape/torture was disturbing. One thinks of her as so strong and invulnerable. I know she survives but this will leave a lifelong impact. Sad.

[Ann]

Carol: While reading both books and then again as I compared the two books, I was struck again at how each group of people we encounter refers to the Virals with a slightly different name. A simple explanation of distance or lack of communication keeping segments of the population apart, or even as decades separate them could suffice, but it does seem that these redeyes are different.
Carol/Bonadie wrote: "The whole development with Guilder taking blood to make himself immortal, particularly taking Grey's blood, was spooky (and disgusting). I guess the redeyes are the humans who have been taking viral blood and therefore are in some category between a human and a viral."

[Ann]

Carol: I actually had more fun trying to stretch my memory myself as I read The Twelve, but afterwards, the Wikipedia page for the characters in The Passage is quite helpful for Carter and some of the others!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_...

Carol/Bonadie wrote: "I bet only somewhere there is a complete list of characters and their entire backstories. That would have been helpful, I really didn't remember much from The Passage, so when characters got reintroduced I'd forgetten how they related to the story "

[Ann]

I am so glad you have been able to post on these parts now Carol! A hard copy along with an audio of this scope really helps, doesn't it.
As more and more is revealed as we read I am seeing the characters as those puzzles where they reveal a different part of the face slowly and across time so that we piece together our own impressions and try to ascertain what Justin Cronin was telling us about each. The inter-connectivity of these first two books adds to the challenge!
Carol/Bonadie wrote: "I've finished The Twelve and coming back to post on the final parts. I'm lucky to have a hard copy of the book, which I mostly listened to, to refresh my memory of the details."

[Carol/Bonadie]

Ann wrote: "Carol: I actually had more fun trying to stretch my memory myself as I read The Twelve, but afterwards, the Wikipedia page for the characters in The Passage is quite helpful for Carter and some of ..."

Thanks, I keep forgetting about Wikipedia. Will need to remember this as we no doubt do a group read of the final installment. Do we know when that is coming out?

[Ann]

Good question on the next book, Carol!
Goodreads says 2014, and calls it The City of Mirrors; Cronin's website says nothing about it and neither does Amazon

[Ann]

and as always, reading things on Wikipedia or other sources is fraught with spoiler danger. One of the character explanations under The Passage included that person's activity in The Twelve. It is always safer to read afterwards...

[Carol/Bonadie]

Ann wrote: "and as always, reading things on Wikipedia or other sources is fraught with spoiler danger. One of the character explanations under The Passage included that person's activity in The Twelve. It is ..."

bummer! I would have been annoyed if I'd read that. So does that mean we shouldn't read summaries of The Twelve until after The City of Mirrors?

[Ann]

Carol: Closer to publication, probably. Someone updating the entry probably thought they were being helpful.
. Carol/Bonadie wrote: "bummer! I would have been annoyed if I'd read that. So does that mean we shouldn't read summaries of The Twelve until after The City of Mirrors?

[BarryP]

An interesting chapter, one in which we continue to learn more about people, but do not get to the bottom of any of the deep mysteries. Still, the power of the virals is starting to fade a bit, leading to hope for the future, even as we wonder about Amy and Alicia.
U was surprised that the virals seemed to understand the concept of planning for the future before the humans did. Mankind has been mostly living on the past and hoping to avoid the present.

[Ann]

Barry: It was shocking to me how the human population from The Field had moved so far from technology and the ability to predict things like an eclipse. The Oil Field workers were more tech savvy I suppose, and working with natural resources to fuel the world as they knew it, but not with the same kind of survival mode evidenced by Guilder's group. Even Michael, whose technological skills had kept the Colony lights on, seemed to be more heads down survival rather than long range thinking survival..
That Viral/ hybrid group was more savvy in appearance, doing more than just surviving, they were actively engaged in their own form of survival.