Breaking Dawn
discussion
Who thinks Bella should have ended up with Jacob?
Victoria wrote: "At first: obviously! After a while ... he started to show some Edward-like tendencies. Preferably both had left her. Bella's relationship with Edward is unhealthy and after four books it still seem..."In reply to you, I honestly think all of the characters should never have existed. Bella was extremely annoying, Jacob was hot but manipulative, Renesmee was supposed to have "magical powers" (yawn) and Edward was described as "the most perfect creature on the planet!!!!!!! ugh. This author overused every single fricken word (ex: chuckled, sparkles like a diamond, blah blah, more annoying things)........ I think you see my point THE BOOKS WERE AIMED AT US READERS AT AGE 11 AND 12 NOT NOW.
I don't understand what you all are talking about. I think these book can be read at all ages it just depends on how you take it. I started reading the series at 14, and I thought that maybe this kind of thing could happen, but now at 19 I now that it is fiction and can't happen so I read it that was. Also, I know that some of the characters were a little annoying, aka Jacob, but it's still a good series. I just don't really see where any of you are coming from.
No, haha simple as that.
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~*~Princess Nya Vasiliev~*~
(last edited Mar 09, 2014 09:18AM)
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I'm still and will forever be conflicted about their triangle. When I first started the series, I thought that Edward & Bella belonged together, but I couldn't deny that she would have also had a great love with Jacob as well, just different. There were many things that Bella was willing to walk away from in order to be with Edward. Very important factors in her life. Her family, & essentially her life as a human. She wouldn't have to give up these things if she were with Jacob. Jacob had a very possessive love for Bella, yes. And in some respects this can become unhealthy. But on the flip side of that coin, when you love someone so intensely u are selfish with them & that love. The dynamics with Bella & Jacob's relationship are so vastly different from her relationship with Edward. Therefore that's why Edward & Jacob's approach with their love towards Bella, was different. For instance of course Jacob would never be selfless & give up his love for Bella in order for her to be with Edward because he would be letting go of the girl he loves for a love that she would have to give up everything she loves in order to be with. For the same reasons that Jacob would never be selfless like that are the same reasons why Edward would. Because she would be choosing him (Edward) at the price of letting go of all she holds dear in her life, way too soon. She wouldn't be giving that up with Jacob, so Jacob would have no reason to be selfless with her like that.
So yeah I'm always gonna be conflicted about them. Cos I see why she chose Edward. The heart wants what the heart wants. Even though she loved Jacob, she could never love him enough or as much as she loved Edward. Even though as Jacob told her... "Being with him would be as easy as breathing" I believe Jacob truly did love her & the fact that she wouldn't have to sacrifice all she loved in order to be with him, was a bonus. But her heart wanted Edward more.
But me personally, if I found myself in Bella's dilemma, I would have chosen Jacob. He's hotter than Edward in many respects.. (Pun Intended) and when it comes to practical issues, & his intense love for me, that he shows through action & words: yeah, I would have chosen Jacob.
The only downside of choosing Jacob would be, it would always be in the back of my/Bella's mind if Jacob would find the person he imprints on. Even though we as the readers' know it never would happen, cos Nesse never would have been born, therefore Jacob wouldn't have found his imprinted mate, but Bella wouldn't know that. Therefore that uncertainty/fear of him imprinting on someone would always be there.
The deal breaker for me in the Bella/Jacob relationship was when he kissed her against her will, and was completely smug about it. Doesn't take her wishes into account, blows off her objections as "you know you like it, you're just in denial." Even after she punches him in the face, he doesn't take the hint. Sorry dude, NO means NO.Of course, it was pretty obvious that SM favored Jerkob over Edward, because she had Charlie egg him on. Totally broke characterization. If any boy kissed my daughter against her will, I sure as hell wouldn't tell him "good for you kid." Friend of the family or not. Werewolf or not, let's see him laugh off a swift kick in the crotch.
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~*~Princess Nya Vasiliev~*~
(last edited Mar 10, 2014 06:05AM)
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She never would have been born cos she was made of Edward & Bella. Everyone is a unique being, born unto unique parents. So it goes without saying, if Bella ended up with Jacob, Nesse never would have been born.
Rel8tivity wrote: "The deal breaker for me in the Bella/Jacob relationship was when he kissed her against her will, and was completely smug about it. Doesn't take her wishes into account, blows off her objections as ..."LOL!
Rab wrote: "If someone looks at the book logically, Jacob is the healthier choice. The relationship bella has with Edward is not good for either of them and if she was your friend you would tell her to break u..."She didn't deserve Jacob and so she didn't get him. Sorry Edward fans but the relationship Bella and Edward had wasn't healthy. If she couldn't see how warped it all was, I'm glad she didn't end up with Jacob and mess his mind up any more than she already had! On another note, I still don't buy the love interest he got saddled with...but that's chat for another thread.
Yeah at the end of the day, and after having read this series I don't know how many times, for all the reasons I mentioned above, I would have preferred her to end up with Jacob. It still would have been interesting since the triangle went on for the whole of the series.I think it would have made things alot more interesting if she ended up with Jacob cos it was clear from the get go, that she would end up with Edward. So if that little twist of her choosing Jacob in the end was thrown in there, it would have thrown the predictable course out the window & made things alot more interesting IMO.
She may have started the triangle, but Jacob pushed it. He was the one that kept telling her she was in love with him. He couldn't see her with someone else, and she couldn't see how happen she was with Edward. So when it comes down to it they both are at fault.
Yes, but if she didn't move to fork then there would be know story.
I liked Jacob in the beginning. He was a little bit tempered so it's unsafe because Bella could have ended up like Sam's mate. But then in the book Remesmee had to be born in order that Jacob can imprint with her. So Bella and Jacob were not meant to be together, if not Jacob would have imprinted with Bella on first time.
I think the series would be really weird if she ended up with Jake.
I think Bella would have been well with both. Yet Jake is so much better suited for her. His love for her wouldnt require her changing into a vampire. But yet I also found the Jacob thing not needed. We know she's going to end up with Edward so why do we need Jacob to love Bella?I mean, he is a good character but he changes a lot in New Moon to Eclipse.
And Edward always wants what is best for Bella even if it is uncomfortable to him.
I don't understand that idea of her being with anyone, but Edward. When I read that series the first time I tried to picture her with Jacob like she did, but I just couldn't do it. There was just something about Jacob that made me not like them together. I always felt like even though she said she loved Jacob she wouldn't have been as happy with him as she was with Edward. Then I always thought Jacob was a better best friend for her than a lover. I feel like if she were to chose Jacob she would be settling because Jacob doesn't challenge her the way Edward does. Jacob just shows her what it means to have fun and life a little whereas Edward challenged her in a physical and emotion way that Jacob could never do. Edward made her reflect on the kind of person she is, and what kind of person she wants to be whereas Jacob did not. I just can see her with anyone else but Edward.
Booklover456 wrote: "I think Bella would have been well with both. Yet Jake is so much better suited for her. His love for her wouldnt require her changing into a vampire. But yet I also found the Jacob thing not neede..."I hated how obnoxious Jacob became in Eclipse, refusing to respect Bella's "no". I mean how much more obvious do you have to be than a punch in the face? No way he deserved her after that.
Rel8tivity wrote: "Booklover456 wrote: "I think Bella would have been well with both. Yet Jake is so much better suited for her. His love for her wouldnt require her changing into a vampire. But yet I also found the ..."
I completely agree with you. I feel like Jacob was forcing Bella to like him instead of letting her figure it out for herself. I also hated how in Breaking Dawn he couldn't let go of the fact that she was final with Edward forever. He just kept think that he was never going to imprint or find love, and it just annoyed me. So she ended up with Edward big deal, just get over it. The way Jacob acted before Rensemme was born just really annoyed me, and made me not like him. I just wanted to jump through the book, punch him in the face, and tell him to get over himself because no matter how he felt Bella was never going to love him the way he wanted. He needs to get off his \high horse, and come back down to reality.
I completely agree with you. I feel like Jacob was forcing Bella to like him instead of letting her figure it out for herself. I also hated how in Breaking Dawn he couldn't let go of the fact that she was final with Edward forever. He just kept think that he was never going to imprint or find love, and it just annoyed me. So she ended up with Edward big deal, just get over it. The way Jacob acted before Rensemme was born just really annoyed me, and made me not like him. I just wanted to jump through the book, punch him in the face, and tell him to get over himself because no matter how he felt Bella was never going to love him the way he wanted. He needs to get off his \high horse, and come back down to reality.
I'm so glad I'm not the only one who feels that way. I thought I was the only one who who hated the way Jacob acted. I'm just glad I'm not alone.
I would kind of be mad if she ended up with Jacob...
I think if she ended up with Jacob it would make her as happy as being with Edward, and that she would live the rest of her life regretting the fact that she didn't pick Edward. I just feel like picking Jacob would have been the easy way out.
But if you think about it Edward loves Bella more than Jacob loves Bella. Bella wasn't 'the one' for Jacob- he didn't imprint on her.If she went with Jacob, Renesmee wouldn't have been born, who was truly meant for Jacob.
And maybe that's why Jacob loved Bella- because she was the closest connection to Renesemee- he wasn't in love with Bella he was in love with the part/ characteristics that she possessed which Renesmee also had?? If that makes sense.
I see where you're coming from, but I also thing it's more than that. I think that even though he has to imprint he can also fall in love the way humans do, and I think that's what he did with Bella. I mean, look at Sam, Emily, and Leah. Sam was in love with Leah before he met Emily just like Jacob was in love with Bella before he met Rensemme.
But it seems as if Edward loves Bella in a way which makes it seem as he has imprinted on her, whereas Jacob love for her is not as strong. Bella is 'leah' for Jacob, and Bella is 'Emily' for Edward.
So Edward loves Bella much more powerfully than Jacob, and the fact that the love Bella and Edward feel is stronger than Jacob and Bella's love means that Edward and Bella should be together.
That's why I think Edward and Bella are best together.
Nimotalai wrote: "But it seems as if Edward loves Bella in a way which makes it seem as he has imprinted on her, whereas Jacob love for her is not as strong.
Bella is 'leah' for Jacob, and Bella is 'Emily' for Edwa..."
I completely agree. I've always felt like I was the only one who felt way till now.
Bella is 'leah' for Jacob, and Bella is 'Emily' for Edwa..."
I completely agree. I've always felt like I was the only one who felt way till now.
Also, the way Bella was in New Moon showed how much she was meant to be with Edward. As much as being with Jacob eased the pain, it still was not enough, and Edward was always in her heart.If Bella were to have ended up with Jacob, it would have violated all that characterization.
Olivia wrote: "quite true there. if jake did end up with bella then Ren wouldt be be born and jake would have never have imprint on her.. "I've always wondered why folks feel that Rensemee HAD to be born so that Jacob could imprint on her. If she had never been born, the story would have gone in a different direction, but is that necessarily a bad thing?
Rel8tivity wrote: "Olivia wrote: "quite true there. if jake did end up with bella then Ren wouldt be be born and jake would have never have imprint on her.. "I've always wondered why folks feel that Rensemee HAD to..."
Yes.
That would be a very bad.
Nimotalai wrote: "Yes.That would be a very bad."
Ok, but why? What would have been bad about it?
Rel8tivity wrote: "Nimotalai wrote: "Yes.That would be a very bad."
Ok, but why? What would have been bad about it?"
I don't think it would've been bad. Just different. I think most people think of the imprinting as a "soulmate" kind of connection, but I've never found it that appealing. To me it feels like a forced love. They're only "in love" because some supernatural imperative says they have to be. It just felt like an easy out so Jake could get a happy ending as well.
Honestly, I've always been a little torn about Bella and Jake. I absolutey loved their relationship in New Moon. In some ways he is a healthier alternative for Bella and I would've been interested to see more of their relationship.
Cassandra wrote: "Honestly, I've always been a little torn about Bella and Jake. I absolutey loved their relationship in New Moon. In some ways he is a healthier alternative for Bella and I would've been interested ..."
I couldn't disagree more. I think Jacob and Bella being together is weird and I just can't picture it.
I couldn't disagree more. I think Jacob and Bella being together is weird and I just can't picture it.
Cassandra wrote: "I don't think it would've been bad. Just different. I think most people think of the imprinting as a "soulmate" kind of connection, but I've never found it that appealing. To me it feels like a forced love. They're only "in love" because some supernatural imperative says they have to be. It just felt like an easy out so Jake could get a happy ending as well. "You know, that's what I've thought as well. If Resnemee had never been born, then Bella and Jacob would have had to deal with their situation directly, not had it settled for them. Bella would have had to grow a spine, and cut Jacob loose. Jacob could have eventually fallen in love with someone else. He and Leah were starting to get along, so I think that was a definite possibility. In fact, I think that would have been a much more satisfactory story than what we got, because they would have earned their HEA, not had it handed to them.
Rel8tivity wrote: "Nimotalai wrote: "Yes.That would be a very bad."
Ok, but why? What would have been bad about it?"
How would it end up?
Bella would be turned into a vampire and if not Sam decided to take action, Jacob would've started a fight the Cullens out of spite.
If it is just Jacob, he'd probably end up dying, as Bella wouldn't be pregnant and therefore wouldn't be seen as a threat to the pack, so the Cullens would've been able to feed. Then again, would Bella let them kill Jacob?
And then the pack would've started a fight with the Cullens, for killing Jacob and a few Cullens and wolf members would've died.
Or..
Jacob would get over Bella and imprint or just fall in love with someone else.
The first ending I wrote would've actually been quite good. The second one about Jacob finding someone else is just plain shit.
He finds someone else and gets his to live happily... Then what????
I liked the way it turned out. The ending was brilliant.
Rel8tivity wrote: "Cassandra wrote: "I don't think it would've been bad. Just different. I think most people think of the imprinting as a "soulmate" kind of connection, but I've never found it that appealing. To me i..."I think I would've been happier if Jake had ended up with Leah. Him imprinting on Bella's babe just felt like a forced (and slightly creepy) way to give him a HEA. It pretty much ruined the last book for me.
Nimotalai wrote: "How would it end up?Bella would be turned into a vampire and if not Sam decided to take action, Jacob would've started a fight the Cullens out of spite.
If it is just Jacob, he'd..."
That's not bad. It could possibly have been a combination of the two scenarios you've presented, and I think it would have been just fine. More realistic in fact. It would have made more sense because the way SM created her vampires made babies (with humans or vampires) impossible. Putting the baby in just destroyed the story because the baby shouldn't exist.
Anyway, I think the take home answer for my original question is that Renfailmee wasn't absolutely necessary for the story. It's just that you prefer it that way. And that's fine, everybody likes what they like. You feel it's brilliant, I think it's crap. I hated the way it ended. Over 3/4 of the book is based on a huge plot hole, so you can see why I don't think the baby is necessary.
Cassandra wrote: "I think I would've been happier if Jake had ended up with Leah. Him imprinting on Bella's babe just felt like a forced (and slightly creepy) way to give him a HEA. It pretty much ruined the last book for me."Same here. I thought the imprinting was such a cop-out. In all the previous books, the main characters made choices to address their conflicts and dealt with the consequences of those choices. They worked to gain whatever resolution they desired.
In BD, it just gets handed to them. A whole host of conflicts resolved and they don't have to do anything. The author reaches down and "poof!!" makes it all better. Not satisfactory at all, especially since they've had to work to resolve their issues before.
Creepy is definitely the word for it. Imprinting as a mechanism to build a stronger pack made sense when it was between two adults. But if tribesmen are going wolf because of the presence of vampires, they can't wait till seven years from now (or 15 in Quil & Claire's case) when the imprintee reaches maturity. That's one reason it felt way too contrived to me. SM had to move all this stuff around, just to tie Bella & Jacob up in a neat bow.
I agree with Nicole D. (one of the comments up top). New Moon was a good book, but Jacob annoyed me sooo much; he was like a little puppy who wouldn't take the hint and run off. I was like, "Jacob Black, shut up and go play some video games or something!"
I think she would have been better off with Jacob. However I think Jacob would have been better off without her. Jacob deserved better from her. Bella drove me nuts. I think they would have worked out for a little while but not forever. Let Eddy have her. :P
Funnybunny wrote: "I think Edward was overly protective and a jerk. Jacob truly loved her and they should have ended up together... what do you guys think?"Obviously not. Edward was somewhat protective, but there is a long way between trying to keep a human safe in a world of creatures like shifters and vampires and being overprotective. Edward did not forbid Bella from seeing Jacob. He just pointed out that it was a very bad idea. And correctly. look at what happened to Emily's face. Besides, Edward had IMMORTALITY to offer. What did Jacob have? A cabin in the woods on the reservation? I think if I were Bella it would be no contest. Plus, Jacob was a little hot headed boy. Edward was a grown up.
By choosiing Edward Bella literally has everything she could want, and an eternity to have it. She would have been restless and bored within a year of choosing Jacob. he didn't really have much upstairs. And Edward loved her in a more pure way. he was willing to give her up, Jacob really wasn't. The love triangle was really not the point of the series anyhow. Bella being brave enough to trust Edward and to take all the necessary risks to earn her happy ending as a powerful, happy woman was the point. If at any point she was cowardly, and chose the easier thing, she wouldn't deserve the perfect ending she got.
Totally agree^^^ but I hate Bella :(
Lauren wrote: "Well, chances are if she did she wouldn't have died/turned into a vampire."Pretty clearly turning into a vampire isn't even slightly like dying. Dead people don't shake hands, get sad, protect their loved ones, or know what their favorite color is. Dead people are DEAD. Being a vampire is being changed. Not being killed. That should be obvious, and a big part of WHY Bella chose Edward is because that was her desire. To become a vampire. To NOT die. Ever.
Mari wrote: "Lauren wrote: "Well, chances are if she did she wouldn't have died/turned into a vampire."Pretty clearly turning into a vampire isn't even slightly like dying. Dead people don't shake hands, get ..."
Being a vampire means you're undead. Like a zombie is undead. As a vampire one is dead, but animated. They have no heart beat. If one has no heart beat then there's no oxygen going to your brain and if there's no oxygen then the brain dies. To go from human to a vampire always involved a change of the human, changing them into an undead. In most cases the victims were near death when they were changed. And in other cases born vampires are born dead. So if one is a vampire they are by all laws of science dead. They're pretty walking dead people.
Not really because Jacob is too awesome of her but I still think it's wired that he imprinted on her kid. I mean fate can't be that weird right.
they were both kind of abusive...jacob forcibly kissed her against her will and then manipulated her into kissing her a second time by threatening to commit suicide. he was kind of a jerk and simply could not take a no for an answer. not saying edward was much better, but personally i don't think bella ending up with jacob would be much good at all
Nope! No way will I ever say that Jacob should have been with Bella. JACOB GOT RENEESME FOR CRYING OUT LOUD! HE IMPRINTED ON HER! If Jacob loved Bella that much, he would have imprinted on HER in stead of her kid. It was a good ending, everyone was happy! I mean really, sure Edward ditched her in the second book, but he -was- going to come back sooner or later anyways. I don't even know why there is a debate about this, since in the end, everyone is happy.
I can't remember if I commented on this or not but I'll comment (again?) just in case:)I dont think Bella should have ended up with Edward purely because Jacob wasn't even 'truly in love' with Bella to begin with. He was 'truly in love' with Bella and Edward's child Renesme. (Is that how you spell it)? He imprinted on her and not on Bella. So, Bella never loved Jacob like that and Jacob never actually loved Bella like that either.
Actually I will retract that last statement. Maybe Jacob did love Bella 'like that' however it was only because, unbeknownst to anyone, she was going to give birth to the girl he was going to imprint on.
In my opinion, imprinting isn't "true love." It's a supernatural force making Jake "fall in love" with Ren. He had no choice in the matter. There's know way you just magically fall in love with someone you never met before, especially not a baby. It was a cheap and creepy way to wrap up Jake's story and give him a HEA.
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Same like I wrote this topic over a year ago and now I realize how little the books make sense and how poorly written they are. Bella is way too dependent on Edward, it is very pathetic. And, the only reason I was team Jacob was because I love Taylor Lautner who played him in the movies. Otherwise, I honestly would not have cared. Besides the "love triangle" is ridiculous. At times it sure sounds like Edward doesn't even love Bella and Jacob comes off as a manipulative guy who only has a crush on her. Also, Renesmee ending up with Jacob is disgusting like come on you are a best-selling author, come up with something better than that! Some book recommendations from me include: The Fault in our Stars by John Green, The Divergent Trilogy by Veronica Roth, The Hunger Games Trilogy By Suzanne Collins, The Book Thief by Markus Zusak and 13 reasons why (I forgot the author for this one). These are my absolute favorite books that I read after I got over The Twilight Saga.