Clean Romances discussion
General Chat
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Why does quality go down when sexual content goes up?
Melissa wrote: "Oh! I do not find sex at all "romantic", it's respect warring with attraction that tells me they love each other. It's the small things, whether it's Elizabeth and Darcy touching foreheads in P&P 2..."And I, after I read Georgette Heyer, find myself talking like her characters.
I love almost all her books and re-read the lot every five to ten years. And yes, I like "A Civil Contract". If we all had the same tastes it would be a barren book-loving world.
Is it okay if I mention my own clean historical, The Pirate And The Puritan wr/as Mary Clayton? 2008 vintage but still getting reviews.
May wrote: "Kathleen wrote: "Very interesting discussion to read through. I've read romance books from sweet, Christian romance to pure erotica romance because I'm a writer and many of my writing friends aren'..."Very true, May!
OK!! My point is made!I just read Marcia McCLures "One Classic Latin Lover" and I am completly convinced she is the most amazing author for a clean romance! She gives you the butterflies in your stomach, without the "flutterbyes" in the lower regions! She gives you true LOVE without the temporary lust! There is meaning behind the relationships, not just what can happen in the bedroom! I LOVE IT! If she ever comes to So. Cal I would love to meet her!!! And now I remember Millie Vanilli, and Ricardo Mantalban again! Thanks Marcia! You rock!I liked Lu's comment, that the human mind can fill in the blanks. SO TRUE. I don't need it spelled out for me that way! I also taught my husband, It is FUN to be pinned against a wall and thoroughly kissed!Though, I'm still not sure he thinks it's that great. I'll have to keep trying!.
Monya wrote: "Melissa wrote: "Oh! I do not find sex at all "romantic", it's respect warring with attraction that tells me they love each other. It's the small things, whether it's Elizabeth and Darcy touching fo...""A Civil Contract" is one of my favourite Georgette Heyer books too. I love the romance, humour and wit in her books - which has had a great influence on my own writing. I'm love "Venetia" too.
Brilliant comment,Georgette Heyer is my Favourite since my teens! "Leon/Leonie and Monsieur", aH!!!But always an exception to the rule. I just read Underground Captive by Elisabeth-Cristine Analise on my kindle,only 'cus' it was £0 and skipped all the smutty bits. The longish story was brilliantly written with great characters and a fab setting and period. I couldn't put it down.
Hugs to all the clean fans
Vee.
If I wanted porn I wouldn't buy it in a novel.(Actually I wouldn't buy it at all.)And porn is what it is at the end of the day!
I completely agree with the comments here (and I am a huge Georgette Heyer fan). I think she conveys more with a look or a gesture between her characters than an entire explicit chapter can do. I am an author (my debut historical novel will be published in February) and I think there is a huge amount of pressure on writers to include erotic love scenes whether they develop the plot or not. 50 Shades of Grey did not do us any favours! I think those of us who choose NOT to do so are at a disadvantage, but that may just be my personal experience.
Anyway, I am really heartened to hear from so many people who still like to read romances where the bedroom door stays closed!
50 shades of grey! Yes! Appalling!!What's your novel called/about? :)
Teryn wrote: "Soph wrote: "Aww May :') thanks!!
I saw your comment on my blog (and replied ;) ) and I am glad you like it :)
Your compliments mean a lot as sometime my ways do seem so different and I stand ou..."
I agree wholeheartedly, and yes, hang in there Soph! Waiting isn't easy, but it's worth it. And in the meanwhile, you can get lost in some good clean romance books. ;)
I saw your comment on my blog (and replied ;) ) and I am glad you like it :)
Your compliments mean a lot as sometime my ways do seem so different and I stand ou..."
I agree wholeheartedly, and yes, hang in there Soph! Waiting isn't easy, but it's worth it. And in the meanwhile, you can get lost in some good clean romance books. ;)
I have many romances to get lost in and I do! Thanks for the encouragement!! :)
Jane wrote: "I completely agree with the comments here (and I am a huge Georgette Heyer fan). I think she conveys more with a look or a gesture between her characters than an entire explicit chapter can do. I ..."
Hi Jane! Congrats on the new novel, and good luck! I think 50 shades of grey is damaging not only for literature but for for society as a whole!
For years society has taken manhood away from men, and women feel deprived because of it. When I talk of manhood, I mean things like - taking care of the women in their life, being man of the home, being honored as leaders. These qualities have been ripped from men, touted as being unfair, or sexist. So, now we have men who are encouraged to NOT be men, and women who feel dissatisfied, but are told by society that they should be happy because of the 'equality' that they have been provided.
So, now we have a more mixed up society than ever and in enters 50 Shades of Grey. Now, not only are men encouraged to not be a man in taking care of and respecting women but they are being told that it is okay to be abusive as well. How twisted is that! How do you guys think this mindset will alter our society?
Soph wrote: "50 shades of grey! Yes! Appalling!!What's your novel called/about? :)"
Thanks for going over and reading the extract. I'll post when I have a definite publication date. Don't want to be one of those writers who constantly harass people!
May wrote: "So, now we have a more mixed up society than ever and in enters 50 Shades of Grey. Now, not only are men encouraged to not be a man in taking care of and respecting women but they are being told that it is okay to be abusive as well. How twisted is that! How do you guys think this mindset will alter our society? "Its scary, May, that's for sure. I was encouraged by a friend to read 50 Shades (but I didn't succumb). She said "You have to read it, it's such utter rubbish!" To which I replied "There are lots of GOOD books I still haven't read, why would I read rubbish?"
Exactly! Some people say read it because it is awful and it's just like, well, I would rather read a book that was good.
I think the scariest thing about '50 shades of grey' is how many teenage girls have read it. Purely from the point of view that (from what I've heard) it is teaching young girls that:1. Abusive relationships are 'romantic'.
2. That abusive boyfriends 'love' you really.
3 The desire to hurt you is 'hot'!!!
4. And that the worthless scumbag will change if you only give him time and go along with everything he wants.
What?!?!?!?
How messed up is that???
It's frightening. So then it is left to us to continually seek our good books and spread the word to others who are tempted to do otherwise.
That is so true D. D! One of my friends (same age as me) read the trilogy and I was appalled really. And she said to me to read them as they are really good and romantic and I was like. No. Just no.
Soph wrote: "That is so true D. D! One of my friends (same age as me) read the trilogy and I was appalled really. And she said to me to read them as they are really good and romantic and I was like. No. Just no."I had a few book buddies say the same thing to me. I always judge the heroes in books this way:
Forget how he was described to you physically and imagine him a little overweight, unremarkable to look at and on the short side. If you still crush on him it's because he is a 'true hero', one that is awesome because of his character, not his looks.
It's incredible how many 'heroes' turn in to jerks when you do this!!! Lol!!!
I do the same thing when I'm writing heroes too!!! ;-P
Such a Great way to tell!! haha. Made me laugh as well!But it is true! Don't go on appearance!
D.D. I just tried that on my favourite romantic hero, Jasper Damerel in Venetia by Georgette Heyer, and he is still my hero!
Jane wrote: "D.D. I just tried that on my favourite romantic hero, Jasper Damerel in Venetia by Georgette Heyer, and he is still my hero!"See! It works! Separates the Men from the Morons!!! ;-P
D.D. wrote: "Soph wrote: "I had a few book buddies say the same thing to me. I always judge the heroes in books this way: Forget how he was described to you physically and imagine him a little overweight, unremarkable to look at and on the short side. If you still crush on him it's because he is a 'true hero', one that is awesome because of his character, not his looks."
You know I bet if in Twilight Edward had a potbelly and was going bald, the majority of females would scream "stalker" and run for cover. I'd do that even if I found him really handsome. ;)
Good to know all my favorite heroes are still adorable when I tested them. :D
Animalia wrote: "D.D. wrote: "Soph wrote: "I had a few book buddies say the same thing to me. I always judge the heroes in books this way: Forget how he was described to you physically and imagine him a little ov..."
Oh. My. Goodness!!!
That was exactly what I was thinking but was too afraid to say!!! I've never read any of the twilight books. I friend of mine was telling me about how 'romantic' it was and as she was telling me about it I was just thinking:
1. This guy is a stalker.
2. Wait a minute: you're telling me the hero basically wants to EAT her?!?!?
There might have been more issues with the story but by then I was in shock and didn't really hear any more!!!
Completely agree!! Edward becomes a moron stalker!
I'm not doing an official promotion, but I have to suggest Astraea Press as their policy is only clean romance without sex. They have some great books. I'm also upset that 50 Shades has become a best seller - it will only encourage women to accept abuse as the norm.
If that's true about Astraea Press you can do an advanced search in Amazon by publisher to filter out all those books.Here it is: http://www.amazon.com/gp/search/ref=s...
I'm published by Astraea and can confirm they have a very strict policy about no sex, foul language, or violence in their books. They're a great company to work with :)
I hadn't heard of Astraea until this thread, great to hear of a publisher with such high standards.
Agreed! It's good to see that there is a publishing house out there with those standards. I'm a bit tired of picking up books and wondering if I'll find any "content" in them or not.
As far as for 50 Shades, yes, I'm a disgruntled at the fact that it is a bestseller. I think it's a terrible book, and sends some horrible messages, especially to the large number of teens who are reading it (ugh, I can't say I hate that enough). I'm in agreement with you D.D. -- if they're not "heroes" when they gain physical imperfections, then they aren't heroes to begin with. :)
As far as for 50 Shades, yes, I'm a disgruntled at the fact that it is a bestseller. I think it's a terrible book, and sends some horrible messages, especially to the large number of teens who are reading it (ugh, I can't say I hate that enough). I'm in agreement with you D.D. -- if they're not "heroes" when they gain physical imperfections, then they aren't heroes to begin with. :)
D.D. wrote: "Soph wrote: "That is so true D. D! One of my friends (same age as me) read the trilogy and I was appalled really. And she said to me to read them as they are really good and romantic and I was like..."Love love love this!!
May wrote: "Okay, I have a great example. This is from movies, but illustrates my point. In the movie Beastly, there is a scene where the hero places his hand at the small of the heroine's back while they take..."I read this and thought back to the scene in Pride and Prejudice, with Kiera Knightly. As Darcy helps her into the carriage, she turns to look at him and then as he walks away he squeezes his hand together. I love that scene
It is one of my favourite scenes - the little things always get me! And that look he gives her says so much!
Soph wrote: "It is one of my favourite scenes - the little things always get me! And that look he gives her says so much!"
Alis wrote: "May wrote: "Okay, I have a great example. This is from movies, but illustrates my point. In the movie Beastly, there is a scene where the hero places his hand at the small of the heroine's back whi..."
That is very true indeed! I think that sexual tension is much more of a drawing point than sexual content, as far as being romantic.
Alis wrote: "May wrote: "Okay, I have a great example. This is from movies, but illustrates my point. In the movie Beastly, there is a scene where the hero places his hand at the small of the heroine's back whi..."
That is very true indeed! I think that sexual tension is much more of a drawing point than sexual content, as far as being romantic.
I'm sorry to say that I really disagree about Astrea Press. I have been exceedingly uncomfortable while reading most of the books I've gotten from there. Which is a disappointment. I have deleted most of the books I've gotten from them.
I agree with Emma. Astrea tends to push the boundaries a little too much for my comfort. Some I've read have been ok, but the last one I bought and didn't even finish. I think there is a definite difference between "sweet romance", which is was Astrea specializes in, and "clean romance". Everyones comfort level is different, so its good to know which is which.
I agree that Astrea is not as clean as I would like, either. Better than most, but not quite there. Not what I could comfortably call "clean". I have read 8 books published by them, and wish the focus was more on "love" and not so much sex. Granted, no language, and sex is between married couples, behind closed doors. But, it weems to be the main focus in the books I've read.
Alis wrote: "May wrote: "Okay, I have a great example. This is from movies, but illustrates my point. In the movie Beastly, there is a scene where the hero places his hand at the small of the heroine's back whi..."It is ROMANCE! Which I don't think is possible to have when there is so much... um... MORE. Once you go there, you can't go back, I think.
Alexandra wrote: "Soph wrote: "It is one of my favourite scenes - the little things always get me! And that look he gives her says so much!"Alis wrote: "May wrote: "Okay, I have a great example. This is from movie..."
YES! I totally agree. I love seeing so many woman who feel the same way as I. I have felt so alone for so long regarding this. *sigh. I'm happy to be among friends.
I don't want to be tacky at all, but I thought I'd throw this out to anyone interested. My sister and I have a book published that IS clean, and full of romance and adventure. And that is the last I will say about it. :0)http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/16...
Hi All!I'm the owner of Astraea Press and we're constantly trying to improve what we put out there and I'm concerned that some of you have found some stuff that makes you uncomfortable and/or made you put the book down. I can assure you this was never our intentions. I would love to open up dialogue with you on how to improve what we do. If something has slipped through that I need to know about, PLEASE email me. As we grow, it's getting harder and harder for me to look at every book we publish.
HOWEVER, I do understand that every one has different thresholds to content. AP is a Christian based company although we're not specifically a Christian publisher, if that makes sense. We allow sexual tension and closed door sex between married couples or people who learn a lesson from a sexual encounter. If you find a book that doesn't meet those guidelines, PLEASE email me to let me know about it.
I apologize that this has happened to a few of you and I assure you it was never our intentions to make ANYONE uncomfortable. I'm against the trend our publishing industry is currently in and we're striving to make changes to that, one book at a time. We allow sexual tension, but the story should never focus solely on sex!
Annette and Emma, please email me directly and let me know which books weren't up to your standards! I look forward to hearing from you ASAP!
stephanietaylor@astraeapress.com
Thank you and happy CLEAN reading!
Stephanie Taylor
Stephanie wrote: "Hi All!I'm the owner of Astraea Press and we're constantly trying to improve what we put out there and I'm concerned that some of you have found some stuff that makes you uncomfortable and/or mad..."
Stephanie,
What a wonderful thing for you to be aware and concerned about readers reactions. I love the sense of integrity it invokes and thank you for striving to create clean reads for those looking for it. It IS a very hard thing to find in today's literature, so thumbs up to you!
Of course everyone has different tastes but I would like to say that I really enjoy AP's style. The chemistry hits the spot for me! =)
Good to know, Zoe! I like my spicy but clean, but I know not everyone does. ;oD Nothing like having two characters that just really want to go at it but keep stopping themselves because they respect each other too much! ;oD
Stephanie wrote: "Hi All!I'm the owner of Astraea Press and we're constantly trying to improve what we put out there and I'm concerned that some of you have found some stuff that makes you uncomfortable and/or mad..."
Thank you. My only objection is, what if we can't get past the scene, so we never know if the characters learn a lesson? I'd rather have no descriptions, or a closed door scene, and have the author say they learned about it, because it has the same meaning, and doesn't make me uncomfortable. I just feel like the obsessiveness behind the tension is too much. Just the way they think about each other is almost as bad as a descriptive scene. Sorry if that doesn't make sense... I have a hard time describing it. I guess I would rather have the romance be based off of something other than physical attraction and chemistry.
I get it, Emma! And it's one of those things that's just different tastes for different people. AP believes strongly in real life situations. While I don't want something to be uncomfortable, I also want it to be real. This is why I could never be a strictly inspirational publisher. I like the meat of a story and a lot of inspirational books gloss over real life to the point where I have to close them because they fall into the unbelievable category for me. Sexual tension is real and it's something that ever human experiences. NOT trying to change your mind, but rather explaining how I see it and where things fit into my vision. When possible, my editors do tell the authors to tone down or take out anything that could be offensive or doesn't add to the story. But also, reading a scene that the entire story is based off of can up emotion and help the reader understand more than if the author just TOLD them.But of course, AP is still new(ish) and growing and we're learning as we go. What we accepted two years ago likely wouldn't fly now. I consider it more of a refining process. ;o)
Thanks, Stephanie. I respect your opinion, and I know that everyone has different preferences. I guess I don't like to focus to much on some things. Gook luck with your good efforts for cleanliness.
Clean Romances
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I agree that Marcia Lynn McClure has the most romantic stimulating novels and there is never anything I wouldn't allow my young daughter to read. This is true literary genius. She manipulates the English language to stir feelings and emotions without explicit details in the act.
There are great authors who belittle their writings in going into too much detail or writing profane word instead of alluding to them. The human mind is very capable of filling in the gaps without it verbally being shouted at them.