Jane Eyre
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If you've read both Jane Eyre and Wuthering Heights - Rochester or Heathcliff?
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Jo
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Jan 15, 2013 04:52PM
Heathcliffe. Rochester was an opportunist and a liar.
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Rochester!!! Why does everyone keep saying "Heathcliff was SO in love with Catherine". If he had truly loved her, how could he have treated her daughter the way he did. At first I felt bad for Heathcliff because of the way Catherine treated him but then he turns into monster because she married someone else. He didn't love Catherine, he wanted to own her. And when he couldn't have her, he made everyone she loved miserable. That's not love, that is obsession. As for Rochester, he didn't mistreat his first wife, Bertha. He hired a woman to make sure she was fed and taken care of, the asylums back then were horrible and she would have been treated much worse in one of those. Also, Rochester made the daughter of his mistress, Celine (who cheated on him) his ward. Heathcliff's story is more heartbreaking BUT Rochester's love is real. He would rather Jane be happy with St.John, than for her to be unhappy with him. (of course we know she would be more happy with Rochester) I would definitly choose Rochester every time!
Well said, Rosanna.
Good point, Rosanna. I don't especially like Rochester, but I hadn't thought about how he could have treated his wife, locking her in the attic seems pretty bad, but the asylum would have been worlds worse.
considering he could not divorce [though he was due a break,] Rochester did the best he could so that in and of itself is a good reason to stick with Rochester
Anthea wrote: "Heathcliff! Ha ha, I just read the above comment, "I could never figure out why any woman would like Heathcliff."Hmm... Interesting. Why do I like Heathcliff?
He loved Catherine so much he went..."
He was so cruel in the end that I hated him and I had already hated Catherine so I hated that book. Rochester was just a good man who made a mistake and paid the price but still existed as a good man.
I like Wuthering Heights, Mostly for the fact that it makes you think. I am not fond of Heathcliff, but I do not hate him. I'm not sure whether he just ignores other people's emotions or if he just can't see them. Either way I am sure he has a mental disorder, but I think Catherine is just self-centered. On other hand Jane Eyre is one of my favorite books. Rochester has his faults, but he isn't ignorant of everyone's emotions but his own. And he truly loves Jane, he ultimately did the best for her, an unselfish love unlike Heathcliff and Catherine. Plus Heathcliff and Catherine never would have worked out and I am pretty sure Emily Bronte knew that.
Agree - Rochester - Heathcliff is a bit bonkers. But, neither one is a Mr. Darcy!
Rochester, times a million! Heathcliff, though I guess a romantic figure in some ways, always creeped me out. As an adult, I have words for his relationship with Cathy-- chiefly, codependent-- but when I read Wuthering Heights at thirteen, all I knew was that he creeped me out on a visceral level. Whereas I've loved Rochester since I first read Jane Eyre when I was around eight. I've read it many times since; I've tried to reread Wuthering Heights a few times, but it just annoys me. I really should, though. I've been told I might see more in it as an adult than I did as a kid.(I guess I should add, though, that Jane Eyre is my favorite book ever and I can't stand Wuthering Heights, but I can't say which is the chicken and which is the egg when it comes to the hero/antihero of each.)
Barbara wrote: "Agree - Rochester - Heathcliff is a bit bonkers. But, neither one is a Mr. Darcy!"Have you read North and South by Elizabeth Gaskel? Mr. Thornton is my favorite male lead.
Oh, yes, Mr. Thornton is a real gentleman in the true meaning of the word.
I would have to agree with Erin that Heathcliff was like a man obsessed. He didn't really care about Cathy's happiness ... sometimes he acted like he did, but when he was wretchedly unhappy he wanted her to suffer, too. I'm sure he believed that it was love, and that it justified everything he did, but I don't believe that love is that selfish.Rochester was selfish, too, and I can't really say that it came of a great love, because he didn't even think about what Jane would feel if she married him and later found out the truth (which was inevitable) and the consequences for her if the truth became widely known. But he wasn't ever deliberately cruel, as Heathcliff was, though he could wound with indifference.
So there is no contest for me; I would choose Rochester. However, on an everyday basis, I think a brooding hero would be rather wearing to have around.
Dude if you think Rochester was never abusive to Bertha read Wide Sargasso Sea.
Nada wrote: "Dude if you think Rochester was never abusive to Bertha read Wide Sargasso Sea."Wide Sargasso Sea was a different author's take on Rochester. I don't think you see abuse reading Jane Eyre. Like others have said before, he tried to have Bertha cared for instead of being abused and neglected in an insane asylum.
Does that question even need to be asked? Definitely Rochester.
But The Wide Sargasso Sea is not Jane Eyre canon anymore than, say, The Eyre Affair. (FTR, I read and enjoyed The Eyre Affair, and I've had a copy of The Wide Sargasso Sea for years, but can't bring myself to read it.)
I see Emily beat me to it! Yes, Rochester was dishonest with Jane, but he tried his best for Bertha.
Nada wrote: "Dude if you think Rochester was never abusive to Bertha read Wide Sargasso Sea."How can you actually even apply that to the interpretation of Jane Eyre? This was a modern author's take on what happened and can in no way be taken as "evidence" of Rochester's alleged "abuse" of Bertha. In those times, no one would have thought poorly of him dumping his crazy wife in an asylum. Instead, he didn't want her to be mistreated there and hired a nurse to care for her. That's more evidence of kindness than abuse.
Amy wrote: "Nada wrote: "Dude if you think Rochester was never abusive to Bertha read Wide Sargasso Sea."How can you actually even apply that to the interpretation of Jane Eyre? This was a modern author's ta..."
You are right . This is an imaginative rescuing of Bertha from being a stereotype. But the fact remains that he lied to Jane about Bertha. I think that's a clear indication of what type of a man he is.
Nada wrote: "Amy wrote: "Nada wrote: "Dude if you think Rochester was never abusive to Bertha read Wide Sargasso Sea."How can you actually even apply that to the interpretation of Jane Eyre? This was a modern..."
He should have told her, but I can certainly see why he did not. He loved Jane and wanted to marry her but was forbidden to divorce Bertha. In his heart, he was divorced from Bertha and to him, that was enough to move forward with Jane. I think he knew before proposing to Jane that she would never agree to just be his mistress and not being with Jane would be unthinkable to him.
He was selfish. He only thought of himself.
Amy wrote: "Nada wrote: "Amy wrote: "Nada wrote: "Dude if you think Rochester was never abusive to Bertha read Wide Sargasso Sea."How can you actually even apply that to the interpretation of Jane Eyre? This..."
He was selfish and deceptive. He only thought of himself.
So, Nada, I guess it is better to be abusive and cruel to others than to be deceitful? If you said you didn't like either man, that would make sense, but to prefer Heathcliff to Rochester because Rochester was deceitful instead of being cruel and mean makes absolutely no sense.
Rochester's dishonesty was necessary to the story. He had to lie, and then he had to beg Jane to stay anyway so that she could say no. The whole point of that thread of the story, and one of the main themes of the book, is that Jane wanted desperately to stay with him but she wanted even more to remain true to herself and her own values because she considered herself a person with her own mind, not a creature of inferior moral and logical reasoning, as women were still often considered to be at the time. When Rochester tells her that it would be okay because she has no father or brother or uncle to object and that no one would even know, she replies, "I would know." She is her own moral authority. So Rochester's dishonesty is a necessary plot device as much as it is a character trait. It gives Jane the opportunity to complete her feminist heroine's journey.
☯Emily wrote: "So, Nada, I guess it is better to be abusive and cruel to others than to be deceitful? If you said you didn't like either man, that would make sense, but to prefer Heathcliff to Rochester because..."Exactly! I could accept deceit over physical and emotional abuse any day. To discredit Rochester for lying but not discrediting physical and emotional abuse (and torturing and killing an animal) is sort of troublesome.
Dear Amy and Emily, To say I prefer Heathcliff to Rochester because Rochester was deceitful instead of being cruel is putting words in my mouth. I realize that Heathcliff turned into a monster toward the middle of the story, but he still has my sympathy. The scene where he dies and Hareton sobs uncontrollably is one of the most heartbreaking scenes in literature (in my opinion)
I do not judge literature with my mind. If I were to do that, then both Rochester and Heathcliff are damned characters. I read literature with my heart and I just sympathize with Heathcliff more than I do with Rochester, maybe because I know where he comes from and how his childhood shaped the man he became.
It is actually very hard to judge both Heathcliff and Rochester because they are after all Byronic heros who are by definition sympathetic despite having flawed characters.
But still we all root for one or the other. And this is testimony to the greatness of the Brontes who have created two of the greatest characters in English lit.
Heathcliff is cold, heartless and frightening. I think he uses his extreme poverty and mistreatment as a youth as an excuse for his unbridled evil as an adult. He takes out his bitterness on everyone, even his own son. Instead of cherishing his supposed love for Catherine through her daughter, he plots to destroy her. He is as insane as Rochester's wife in Jane Eyre.
Heathcliff hands down. This is fantasy - I like passion in my fantasy. Raw, unadulterated, the-Hell-with-everything-else PASSION. Heathcliff delivers that in spades.
Now for real life - I suppose I choose Rochester every time.
Now for real life - I suppose I choose Rochester every time.
The London Magazine wrote: "Hmm, I would have perhaps said Rochester- but after reading the postmodern prequel to Jane Eyre- it's called Wide Sargasso Sea by Jean Rhys- I think I would have to say neither of them, really. Bu..."Read Sargasso Sea too, loved it. I'm with you. Neither of them. They're both rather poor specimens, emotionally, morally, psychologically speaking. And sooo needy.
Aren't most men needy?
I first read Wuthering Heights when I was 15 for school & loved it. Read it recently & hated it. I love reading Jane Eyre but have not read Wide Sargasso Sea. I am partial towards Mr Rochester but come on he is no Mr Darcy!
Lesley wrote: "I first read Wuthering Heights when I was 15 for school & loved it. Read it recently & hated it. I love reading Jane Eyre but have not read Wide Sargasso Sea. I am partial towards Mr Rochester but ..."Yes, Fitzwilliam Darcy remains the standard by which literature men are measured.
Yes, if we add Mr. Darcy to the discussion, I'd pick him without any hesitation.
Heathcliff is the classic bad boy, but you can't dress him up and take him anywhere. Rochester is the one you marry.
Well, if you're going to add Mr. Darcy as an option, then yes, I choose him over Mr. Rochester. Heathcliff was never even a consideration.But as long as we're offering other options, may I suggest Captain Wentworth or Gilbert Markham from The Tenant of Wildfell Hall?
If we are looking for eligible men outside the Brontes' books, what about John Thornton from North and South by Elizabeth Gaskell?
My all time favorite is Mr. Knightly from Emma.
Rochester of course! yet, Heathcliff has such a special kind of love that worth thinking. Heathclif's loss of love made of him that cruel hardhearted. I think he was avenging not just the surroundings for loosing his love but avenging also himself for wasting it.
Erin wrote: "Lauren wrote: "☯Emily wrote: "Rochester, of course. I've never figured out why any woman would like Heathcliff."Agreed."
It's a well-used trope in literature that the character who's outwardly..."
Yes, I agree. The reader feels sympathy for Heathcliff at this point. Catherine sometimes annoyed me with her selfishness.
now you see, for me, it's a toss-up between the two. Heathcliff, the devil incarnate, had reason for his anger and obsessions. I felt for him.
Yet Rochester is just as much a brooding Byronic hero with just as much passion for his woman...just not as violent.
I'm probably the only guy who will post on this page, but my wife and I have been following it with interest. We came to sort of a compromise.
So long as you are alive, you want Rochester as a husband, to love you and be devoted. But when you die, you want Heathcliff to contrive a merciless vengeance upon those who wronged your love in life. Fair balance?
However bad one may think of Heathcliff, it must be known that he and Catherine deserved each other, for they were more alike than even they knew. That can be interpreted either way, good or bad. She deserved someone that complemented her personality, and her depravity.
Also, Heathcliff never violated any of Catherine's (admittedly screwed-up) principles. Rochester GOT CAUGHT, and that's why Jane left. "And you would thrust a wife upon me?" is like Homer Simpson telling Marge "I swear! I thought you'd never find out!"
And while we are engaging in fantasy, I think Heathcliff, if he had been in Rocherster's position, would have bilked St John's family out of every last dime, owned their property, and then sold and shipped off St John as a slave to wherever it is he was going as a missionary.
So long as you are alive, you want Rochester as a husband, to love you and be devoted. But when you die, you want Heathcliff to contrive a merciless vengeance upon those who wronged your love in life. Fair balance?
However bad one may think of Heathcliff, it must be known that he and Catherine deserved each other, for they were more alike than even they knew. That can be interpreted either way, good or bad. She deserved someone that complemented her personality, and her depravity.
Also, Heathcliff never violated any of Catherine's (admittedly screwed-up) principles. Rochester GOT CAUGHT, and that's why Jane left. "And you would thrust a wife upon me?" is like Homer Simpson telling Marge "I swear! I thought you'd never find out!"
And while we are engaging in fantasy, I think Heathcliff, if he had been in Rocherster's position, would have bilked St John's family out of every last dime, owned their property, and then sold and shipped off St John as a slave to wherever it is he was going as a missionary.
Crimsonscarlet wrote: "Definitely Rochester.Even though Bertha was mentally unstable and Rochester didn't love her...he didn't cast her away and assigned servants to look after her and risked his own life to save her fro..."Jane thought that Adele didn't particularly look like Rochester, but she wasn't exactly a disinterested observer. There was actually no way to tell if he was Adele's father or not. As we all know from occasional glimpses of the Maury Povich show, one or two people saying "that baby looks nothing like him" in no way influences DNA test results (which, of course, did not exist in the early 1800s).
I prefer Heathcliffe, he seems more worldly as a man.
Rochester of course! Cathy and Heathcliff were horrible to each other! Heathcliff was just terrible to her but yet she took it!
Rochester did lock his (mad) wife in the attic and then pursed an affair with the Nanny. Heathcliff is the guy your mother always warned you about. I always felt more compassion for Heathcliff than Rochester. I think he was handed a bad lot in life, and he was so horribly abused by Hindley, giving more to empathize with. However, he should be adored him from far, far, far, far away. He's no good for you, but irresistible.
Rochester, over all others. Most people love Mr. Darcy or Heathcliff, but Rochester is so witty, and his speech about his and Jane's hearts being connected by a string always melts me:"I sometimes have a queer feeling with regard to you--especially when you are near me, as now: it is as if I had a string somewhere under my left ribs, tightly and inextricably knotted to a similar string situated in the corresponding quarter of your little frame. And if that boisterous Channel, and two hundred miles or so of land come broad between us, I am afraid that cord of communion will be snapt; and then I've a nervous notion I should take to bleeding inwardly. As for you,--you'd forget me."
I mean, come one <3
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