How Far to Bethlehem - common read Dec 2012

[Cheryl]

They might still have been bad marriage prospects due to poverty and maybe even the scandalou death of their brother. In that case, they and their mother would remain in their father's, and later their brother's household.

Josodad's rescue from suicide doesn't mean he'd never have family worries again. In fact, it might have meant that he could support his daughters until his son was old enough to do so even if they didn't marry. This wasn't a society in which a maiden aunt went off an got a job and became self-supporting!

[Barbara]

Cheryl wrote: "They might still have been bad marriage prospects due to poverty and maybe even the scandalou death of their brother. In that case, they and their mother would remain in their father's, and later t..."

True, but I trust Lazarus the elder to have arranged things for them. Eventually. After all, he said they were all he had didn't he . He would have taken Lazarus the younger into his business at least.

[Jenny]

Cheryl wrote: "... Josodad's rescue from suicide doesn't mean he'd never have family worries again." Well, quite. That was what I meant.

[Barbara]

Where is everybody up to ? I've read is so many times I can't be spoilerised , but don't want to do it to anybody else.
I'm at the point where Gaspar and Melchior and Balthazaar have fallen foul of the centurion and are locked up . Gaspar's worst nightmare has fallen upon him, so well written you can feel his madness and despair , also I find myself getting cross every time at Melchior's manic need for haste which, though understandable is actually counter productive. And as for my favourite Balthazaar, well, I just want to hug him and tell him it's going to be SO all right( I won't though, as he has a bad history with middle aged women )

[Peggy]

Barbara, I think everyone's read it so don't worry about the "spoilerising!" Isn't Balthazaar a great character, so resourceful and intelligent but humble and gentle. I love the way all three men mesh in their strengths and weaknesses.

I wonder how unusual it was for three siblings to remain unmarried in those times (Mary, Martha, Lazarus).

[Werner]

For any adult (let alone three siblings) to remain permanently unmarried, in that culture, would have been unheard of, to the point of requiring explanation. Actually, the Biblical text doesn't say that any of the three were unmarried, nor that they all lived in the same house (as opposed to the same town); that's just an inference that later readers drew, greatly encouraged by a religious culture that glorified lifelong celibacy. The lack of mention of Lazarus' wife, for instance, is no more unusual in that regard than the lack of mention of any of the wives of the twelve disciples, though they obviously existed (if Peter hadn't been married, for instance, Jesus couldn't have healed his "mother-in-law"). Martha's inviting Jesus to "her house" (Luke 10:38), not her husband's or her brother's, suggests that she was a widow with a home of her own.

[Jenny]

I don't think Lazarus could have had a wife by the time he died, or Martha wouldn't have had such a prominent place in the aftermath.

[Werner]

Jenny, Martha strikes me as the kind of lady who would have had a prominent place in whatever situation she found herself in. :-) That's no criticism of her; she just comes across as a highly competent, practical lady with a strong, forceful character and a take-charge kind of personality. (When there's been an unnerving blow like a death in the family, those kind of people are good to have around, and tend to come to the fore.) Of course, there's no guarantee that Lazarus' wife didn't die before he did. In pre-modern times, average life expectancy was lower, and both men and women were often widowed at relatively young ages, by our standards.

[Elizabeth]

I think Werner is right about Lazarus,he may well have had a wife who died. After all his uncle Lazarus lost two wives and that would have been fairly common then.
I love these links with later stories in the Bible.Is Ephorus being left at the inn the basis for the Good Samaritan story?

[Eliza]

Barbara said: ...I find myself getting cross every time at Melchior's manic need for haste which, though understandable is actually counter productive.

I always understood that--the star is only going to last so long--but what bothers me is Balthazar's insistence on stopping to find that particular gate. I can see why he wanted to ride through it, but why didn't they do that after they found the child? It doesn't make sense to me that no one even suggested that as a possibility.

[Barbara]

I think perhaps we have come to the end of our Bethlehem journey for this year , do you all agree?

Right down to the last satisfying bit of symbolism, Melchior's signing with his right hand held in front of him, the width of the domains the child would rule - North , South , East , West .......

With your permissions, I'll close off the thread, for this year at least.

[Werner]

Permission granted, as far as I'm concerned. :-) I've enjoyed (and gotten insights from) the discussion, as I did the ones on the previous threads!

[Barbara]

Werner wrote: "For any adult (let alone three siblings) to remain permanently unmarried, in that culture, would have been unheard of, to the point of requiring explanation. Actually, the Biblical text doesn't sa..."

Yes very true. I got the feeling that Mary and Martha were very young, didnt you ? Maybe 11 and 12 ish. ...

[Barbara]

Well, I'll close off then for this year dear Bethlehemites.
( not, please note, Bedlamites , though we know the term's derivation....)