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Are Self Published Books Inherently Inferior?
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Toni wrote: "I totally agree with Chris about economies of scale with publishing. Self-publishing sales can be very meaningful for the author while they aren't worth considering to a publisher which is why the ..."
Thomas wrote: Toni, I'm going to - ahem - gently disagree. :)
Writing and editing are two different things. While the writer should (and better) have a good command of language, punctuation and grammar, the editor serves as a second set of eyes to nab any mistakes in all of those areas. And as I mentioned to Bridget down below, this is one of my points. Too many times - and I've seen a few - indies forego professional editing (or any editing, for that matter), and turn what could be a good read into a mess.
Actually, Tom, you didn't disagree with what I wrote :) though you were very gentle about it. However, I made a comment about sales and you answered with a reiteration of your earlier comments about the value of an editor.
It's true most Indie books don't make very much, but most traditionally published books don't either. There is potential, in fact, for some Indie authors to make more on their own than with a traditional publisher because they can make so much more on each sale.
Thomas wrote: Toni, I'm going to - ahem - gently disagree. :)
Writing and editing are two different things. While the writer should (and better) have a good command of language, punctuation and grammar, the editor serves as a second set of eyes to nab any mistakes in all of those areas. And as I mentioned to Bridget down below, this is one of my points. Too many times - and I've seen a few - indies forego professional editing (or any editing, for that matter), and turn what could be a good read into a mess.
Actually, Tom, you didn't disagree with what I wrote :) though you were very gentle about it. However, I made a comment about sales and you answered with a reiteration of your earlier comments about the value of an editor.
It's true most Indie books don't make very much, but most traditionally published books don't either. There is potential, in fact, for some Indie authors to make more on their own than with a traditional publisher because they can make so much more on each sale.
Toni wrote: "Toni wrote: "I totally agree with Chris about economies of scale with publishing. Self-publishing sales can be very meaningful for the author while they aren't worth considering to a publisher whic..."Actually Toni, I do agree with you, on several counts. One is that a small number of sales is far more significant to an indie author than to any publisher, regardless of size. Bucks is bucks, right? And you're right, of course, that any indie writer is going to make more, apples to apples, because they don't have to split the pie with anyone else, save the cover designer (if used), and editor (ditto).
I've considered going indie, actually. And it's not fear that prevents me, as I know I could do it. It's a sense of gratitude to my publisher, since he gave me a start when I didn't know a publisher from a muskrat. I may still decided to go indie, at some point.
There are many advantages to indie writing, and I don't have to enumerate them to you - you know them. However, I do think that the folks we originally started talking about, i.e. the ones who neglect to have their work edited or design a decent cover, continue to give indie writing a black eye by bringing standards -and therefore expectations - down.
Tom, there are always going to be people with low standards in every profession and today's technology, frankly, allows anyone with a keyboard to be a published writer and in a lot of cases, that is not a good thing.
Every day, all of us see Internet posts/e mails, etc. that are truly cringe worthy; no grammar, no spelling, no capitalization, etc. I find it hard to believe that any editor could do anything with some of the stuff I've seen.
However, the stigma of vanity publishing which, at times, included professional editing has faded and continues to fade as independent publishing evolves. For example, self published books can get reviewed now which vanity books could not. Publishing is a state of flux and I think we're just at the beginning of what could be a paradigm shift in the publishing world.
Every day, all of us see Internet posts/e mails, etc. that are truly cringe worthy; no grammar, no spelling, no capitalization, etc. I find it hard to believe that any editor could do anything with some of the stuff I've seen.
However, the stigma of vanity publishing which, at times, included professional editing has faded and continues to fade as independent publishing evolves. For example, self published books can get reviewed now which vanity books could not. Publishing is a state of flux and I think we're just at the beginning of what could be a paradigm shift in the publishing world.
I agree, wholeheartedly. Although I'm a beginning writer, I've read my share of horror stories about writers - good writers - who either never got published, or did so after many years of waiting. The reason was, of course, the publishing companies and their pursuit of the holy dollar.I rejoice that so many of those writers can now find their way onto Amazon. And you're right, the writing world is topsy turvy, as of right now. Ever hear of a book store closing - a big one? I live across from a Books-A-Million, and it shut its doors a month ago, due to poor sales. The electronic age is upon us (I have mixed feelings about that one), and so is the one of the indie writer.
But, with that increased power (here comes the cliche) comes great responsibility - and those now-unfettered and soon-to-be Steele's and Koontz's have to learn how to spell, or hire someone who knows.
Tom,
Sure. I've been aware of lots of closures. Brentano's was a big favorite of my mine growing up in NYC. Brentano's Mid-town filled an entire city block with directional signals north, south, east, west. I LOVED that store. Brentano's was bought by Walden which was a subsidiary of Border's. I was amazed when it closed, but both Waldens and Borders are also both closed now. I'm actually surprised to hear about Books-A-Million only because after Borders closed its doors in Maine where I live now, BAM bought all the Borders outlets.
Some bookstores had a certain panache for me growing up that mall stores will never had and now I tend to prefer the convenience of online purchases, anyway. However, if you've never seen a fluffy movie called 'Falling in Love' with Robert DeNiro and Meryl Streep, there are a couple of scenes in an elegant Scribner's bookstore on Fifth Avenue in midtown that are the best part of the movie for me. I loved that store just for its ambiance. The building was designed in a Beaux Arts style we will never see again in a bookstore. Scribner's was bought by Simon & Schuster which was bought by CBS and, of course, the bookstore's long gone.
Sure. I've been aware of lots of closures. Brentano's was a big favorite of my mine growing up in NYC. Brentano's Mid-town filled an entire city block with directional signals north, south, east, west. I LOVED that store. Brentano's was bought by Walden which was a subsidiary of Border's. I was amazed when it closed, but both Waldens and Borders are also both closed now. I'm actually surprised to hear about Books-A-Million only because after Borders closed its doors in Maine where I live now, BAM bought all the Borders outlets.
Some bookstores had a certain panache for me growing up that mall stores will never had and now I tend to prefer the convenience of online purchases, anyway. However, if you've never seen a fluffy movie called 'Falling in Love' with Robert DeNiro and Meryl Streep, there are a couple of scenes in an elegant Scribner's bookstore on Fifth Avenue in midtown that are the best part of the movie for me. I loved that store just for its ambiance. The building was designed in a Beaux Arts style we will never see again in a bookstore. Scribner's was bought by Simon & Schuster which was bought by CBS and, of course, the bookstore's long gone.
I've actually heard of Scribner's...Truth be told, I wasn't all that wild about BAM. We also have a Barnes & Noble within a stone's throw, and I don't like it much, either. Oh, they're convenient, and you can either buy or order anything under the sun there. But like you, I love the FEEL of small bookstores....
We have a few private ones here in Charleston, and I'm actually going to approach a few in an attempt to get my books stocked there. I'm looking forward to just stepping foot inside.
Charles Scribner's Sons was definitely another era.
I didn't care for BAM either. I visited once after they bought Borders and never went back. As for B&N, I don't care for their online presence, but there is an old fashioned Barnes & Noble in Augusta Maine that I like to visit when I'm up there. Old fashioned bookstores encourage browsing with slouchy stuffed chairs and things for kids to play with. I always make a point to visit during the holidays when I'm looking for gifts.
I agree your best bet is to visit independent stores (there's that word again). Maybe, as the chains fade, the independent stores will return because they offer something much more personal. In that regard, The Tattered Cover in Denver is a legend and it's not going away...
I didn't care for BAM either. I visited once after they bought Borders and never went back. As for B&N, I don't care for their online presence, but there is an old fashioned Barnes & Noble in Augusta Maine that I like to visit when I'm up there. Old fashioned bookstores encourage browsing with slouchy stuffed chairs and things for kids to play with. I always make a point to visit during the holidays when I'm looking for gifts.
I agree your best bet is to visit independent stores (there's that word again). Maybe, as the chains fade, the independent stores will return because they offer something much more personal. In that regard, The Tattered Cover in Denver is a legend and it's not going away...
In an odd way, I equate the corporate feel of places like B&N to that of the big publishing houses - cold, distant, and monopolized. Writing is so personal, and I think the smokey, moldy, cigar smelling stores lend themselves so much better to the spirit with which writing - and reading - should be approached.
I quit smoking long ago and don't like mold, but I get the spirit of what you're saying and I agree. :)
Hah...I'm with you on both of those :)It's about time for me to head home and get to my evening...I enjoyed our chat. Talk to you again sometime, yeah?
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From the NY Times today, the growing popularity of self-publishing even for well known authors.
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/04/17/bus...
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/04/17/bus...
I imagine there will come a time when more do than don't, at least in part. I imagine most trad published writers have written books, novellas and shorts that their publishers don't want for one reason or another. If you have a name there's no reason not to self-publish it, providing you're not contractually obliged not to.
Toni, I'm going to - ahem - gently disagree. :)
Writing and editing are two different things. While the writer should (and better) have a good command of language, punctuation and grammar, the editor serves as a second set of eyes to nab any mistakes in all of those areas. And as I mentioned to Bridget down below, this is one of my points. Too many times - and I've seen a few - indies forego professional editing (or any editing, for that matter), and turn what could be a good read into a mess.