Vampire Books Fans, Fangs and Writers discussion
Real vampires??
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Yeah, I've heard that theory and the link you posted has it correct in that 'drinking blood' would not benefit porphyria victims."Porphyria victims don't crave blood. Drinking blood will not alleviate their symptoms, nor has there ever been a general belief that it would. The blood chemicals porphyria victims need do not survive digestion."
(emphasis mine)
My theory is different in that adrenal hormones do survive digestion.
There's a lot more to my theory but I didn't want post the whole thing so as not to overwhelm anyone with my very first post. (smile)
I'd be more than happy to answer questions.
I hope no one minds but I'd like to continue this train of thought...As I said above, certain hormones do survive digestion. For certain reasons, the adrenal hormones work best (in terms of explaining vampires). Specificially cortisol which is the main glucocorticoid (a class of hormones) produced by the adrenal glands.
Anyone here ever received a 'steroid' shot because of a sore knee or elbow? That was cortisol (or some man-made variant of it). It works to reduce inflammation and pain because cortisol inhibits the immune system. If high levels of cortisol inhibit the immune system (which is fact), it makes sense the low levels would enhance the immune system.
(For various reasons - which I could go into in excruciating detail - it is impossible to 'prove' that last statement but it makes sense.)
An enhanced immune system could go a long way towards explaining the myths surrounding 'traditional' vampires, i.e. the 'coming back from the dead', the 'apparent indestructability', and the 'immortality/long life').
(Oddly enough, it turns out that humans naturally have more cortisol than any other animal. For someone who lacks that hormone, humans would be the best source.)
I really don't like you giving away trade secrets. Keep going like this, and we'll have to kill all the humans... :-(
I have read the symptoms for rabies can sometimes be mistaken for traits of vampirism, and rising from the dead might be the inability of medicine of those times to register something like a coma, hence ignorance and natural bodily reactions might be given a supernatural explanation when a serviceable real world one exists but is unknown.
Francis wrote: "I really don't like you giving away trade secrets. Keep going like this, and we'll have to kill all the humans... :-("Hehe - 'trade secrets'. Good one.
Woolfie wrote: "I have read the symptoms for rabies can sometimes be mistaken for traits of vampirism, and rising from the dead might be the inability of medicine of those times to register something like a coma, ..."Evidently rabies can make someone hypersensitive to light. And since many people nowadays associate vampires with darkness, this makes a certain amount of sense.
But - historically - vampires were not restricted to the night. (The whole 'spontaneously combusting in sunlight' is a movie invention.) In Bram Stoker's 'Dracula', Dracula's powers were lessened during daylight but nothing more. So 'light hypersensitivity' does not really relate to 'historical' vampires.
Francis wrote: "But seriously, please continue."Just what I needed - encouragement. (grin)
(Before I go any further, I know that there are medical conditions (Addison's Disease being the best known) where the patient has low glucocorticoid levels. What I'm speaking of is different. I can explain it if anyone cares but it gets rather technical.)
Anyway, back to vampires. An improved immune system could not lead to 'immortality'. It's a fact of nature that everything living eventually dies. But it could lead to an increased lifespan which could appear to be immortality. Seriously, if I see someone when I'm twenty years old and then see them again when I'm sixty, yet they've only (apparently) aged from thirty to thirty-five, it would seem (to me) that they haven't aged at all.
Another interesting fact - low cortisol levels would lead to these individuals having higher levels of androgens, leading them to be bigger/stronger than average.
K. wrote: "Hi all - I'm a new member, been lurking for a bit but would like to propose a theory on how vampires could be real. I'd really appreciate any comments, thoughts on how realistic it seems, etc.===..."
As for the digestion, what if the vampire had no digestive juices ala vampire bats? The blood goes more or less directly into the intestinal system so that all of the nutritional elements of the blood can be absorbed.
Brian wrote: "As for the digestion, what if the vampire had no digestive juices ala vampire bats?"The 'various molecules' in the plasma (that I mentioned in the first post) are actually protein/fat/carbohydrate molecules which are what our body uses for nutrition. It is correct that vampire bats would not need digestive enzymes to utilize these because they are already in molecular form.
But vampire bats do have to digest the 'formed elements' (i.e. red blood cells/white blood cells/platelets) found in blood. (Remember, all 'digestion' means is to break down the food into molecules small enough to be absorbed through the intestional walls.)
Getting back to 'no digestive juices in human vampires'. The problem is that the 'nutritional elements of the blood' (mainly the formed elements) cannot be absorbed through the intestional walls. They're physically too large. (Yes, the 'various molecules' could be absorbed but their nutritional value is maybe 1/10th that of the 'formed elements'.)
In any case, Eastern European folktale vampires did eat real food. Many of the stories involve them re-joining their families for dinner, living with their spouses, etc.
How come my husband's dead and I still have to cook for him?
Francis wrote: "How come my husband's dead and I still have to cook for him?"Sounds like you have a definite problem. (smile)
K.V., I'm very interested in this since I am writing a series with scientifically based "real" vampires and it sounds like you really know what you're talking about. Would you be interested looking over some of what I've got and helping me figure out a few elements?
Brian wrote: "K.V., I'm very interested in this since I am writing a series with scientifically based "real" vampires and it sounds like you really know what you're talking about. Would you be interested looking over some of what I've got and helping me figure out a few elements?"I'd love to - that's right up my alley. I'll try to send you a private message but I haven't done that here so it might take me a few minutes.
I too am considering the 'realistic' origin of vampires, plus I love reading new takes on a tried, tired and beloved area of fiction.
Woolfie wrote: "I too am considering the 'realistic' origin of vampires, plus I love reading new takes on a tried, tired and beloved area of fiction."Tired? TIRED!! (clutches chest and falls down)
Seriously, I'm going to send you a message because I'd love to talk about this further...
(What's with all the private messaging? Are there people... listening? Should I be worried?)
Francis wrote: "(What's with all the private messaging? Are there people... listening? Should I be worried?)"Nah, I don't think anyone's listening. (Interesting idea, though.) (smile)
I just thought it would be polite to take peripheral discussion out of the thread. Nothing more.
So you're definitely not just luring people into the shadows - with seductive promises of technical discussion - where you can initiate them uninterrupted into the dark arts? It's only my wit that's sparkling! I think you will find my discourse to be most... penetrating.
Francis wrote: "So you're definitely not just luring people into the shadows - with seductive promises of technical discussion - where you can initiate them uninterrupted into the dark arts? It's only my wit that's sparkling! I think you will find my discourse to be most...penetrating..."Talk about ME giving away trade secrets!!!
Francis wrote: "So you're definitely not just luring people into the shadows - with seductive promises of technical discussion - where you can initiate them uninterrupted into the dark arts?Damn! Another dead-end! I'll have to try a few more vampire groups until I find one ... LOL!
K.V., sorry I haven't gotten back to you yet, got hit with a sudden burst of activity pulling me in all directions, but I will send you my notes soon!
Brian wrote: "K.V., sorry I haven't gotten back to you yet, got hit with a sudden burst of activity pulling me in all directions, but I will send you my notes soon!"Brian - no hurry though I admit I'm curious to see someone else's take on the scientific rationale for vampires.
Don't you think it could be nanites, brought to Atlantis by aliens from another dimension, a gift of immortality with unfortunate side effects?
Francis wrote: "Don't you think it could be nanites, brought to Atlantis by aliens from another dimension, a gift of immortality with unfortunate side effects?"I have to admit - I hadn't considered that option. (smile)
Speaking of 'unfortunate side effects', I admit that I'm amused at the way so many recent vampire books/tv shows have minimized them so much that you'd have to be an idiot not to want to be a vampire.
Francis wrote: "(What's with all the private messaging? Are there... listening? Should I be worried?)"Francis, I don't think you need to worry at all. I don't even understand, what they are talking about. Maybe, I would, if I had ever read any, of what I call, gothic novals. I try to keep my reading, more on the lighter side. I have had a lot of history, & have seen a lot as, it was happening, now I want to be intertained. Is there anything wrong with that?
Hi Rita,Nothing wrong with that. Most people read fiction to immerse themselves in a safe and friendly environment.
How are you? Have you persuaded Stephanie to write Chapter 3 yet?
I'm not worried, just being silly in my usual (possibly annoying?) way. I've been enjoying reading KV & James talking about Dracula & vampire theories...
Ack!! Are you saying gothic novels are not entertaining?? (Sob)(I'm kidding.)
Seriously, of course there's nothing wrong in wanting to be entertained. But I think you'd be surprised how many authors/books are considered 'gothic' such as Anne Rice's 'Interview With The Vampire' and Charlene Harris's 'True Blood' series.
Francis wrote: "Indeed... I was ranting a bit about that here:http://alinameridon.wordpress.com/201..."
Great post, Francis! I agree to a large part and, in fact, my novel actually takes on that idea. The main character is an ordinary guy who is infatuated with the modern mythology of vampires and wants nothing more than to be one because it seems like the answer to all his problems. When he becomes one, he soon finds out what a self-absorbed, petty, and class conscious lot most vampires really are.
As much as I'm guilty of it myself, I found myself resenting the fad of "vampire as superhero" and wanted to bring some of the bite back to them.
Ancient Blood: A Novel of the Hegemony
Francis wrote: "Hi Rita,Nothing wrong with that. Most people read fiction to immerse themselves in a safe and friendly environment.
How are you? Have you persuaded Stephanie to write Chapter 3 yet?
I'm not wor..."
I'm fine. Had a great Thanksgiving, with the family. No! I have'nt, talked, Stephinie, into finishing it. Read 1 of her post,saying, she did'nt want to write it until, everybody forgets about it. I posted, it today, on another post, finish it. Dont know what good it will do, but I tried. How are & you family?
K.V. wrote: "Ack!! Are you saying gothic novels are not entertaining?? (Sob)(I'm kidding.)
Seriously, of course there's nothing wrong in wanting to be entertained. But I think you'd be surprised how many ..."No, I'm not saying that. Its just me, & I like the modern vampire's right now. All of the old, vampire movies, that were, so scary, made from the gothic novals, were very good, & I really liked them. Its just, now, in my life, I love the books, that come in a seriers. Its kinda, like a soap on tv, that I don't watch. Loved, Dark Showdows, when it was on, so many years ago. You will get used to the way I wright, its the way I talk. I' a born, & bread, Texan. I have the southern acsent, & wright the way I talk.
My take on vampires is a bit different. They are not super-heroes but are usually bigger and stronger than most humans. (Think 'top-level athlete' as opposed to 'super-hero'.) But I think their biggest difference (from humans) relates more to 1) their long life (which parallels discrimination and bigotry) and 2) their need for concealment (since they are vastly out-numbered by humans).
Seriously, how would it feel to be hated for something you cannot change? To constantly have to hide what you are? To be forced to uproot your life every ten years or so or face discovery and persecution? To watch people you care for grow old and die or end up resenting you because you're aging so much more slowly?
And then you finally find others like yourself (other vampires). How far would you go to fit in with the only people who could possibly accept you the way you are?
KV. Really? Whos to say that, sometime, I may get tired of what I read, now, & start on a Gothic noval. You just, never know about me, & what I might do. I'm not crazy, just, free, to do as I please, at any given time. Not being cocky, Its just the truth. Have a great day or night, where ever you are.
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Vampires have to drink blood to survive. The operative word here is 'drink'.
When humans eat, that food/drink is first 'digested', then 'absorbed'. The hamburger you had for lunch does not pass into your bloodstream intact - it is broken down (digested) by the stomach/small intestine into molecules which are then small enough to be 'absorbed' through the intestinal wall into our bloodstream.
How does this digestive process apply specifically to blood?
Blood has two main components - the 'formed elements' (red blood cells, white blood cells, and platelets) and the plasma (the liquid part).
The 'formed elements' are digested so that can't be what vampires need. That leaves the plasma which is 90% water. The remaining 10% is made up of various molecules (mentioned above), electrolytes, salt, and hormones. We can disregard electrolytes and salt since they are readily available elsewhere.
That leaves hormones. Most hormones are also digested before being absorbed. But there are two main exceptions - the thyroid hormones and the adrenal hormones.
So (this is the important part) - if a person lacks thyroid or adrenal hormones, 1) they would die and 2) the only natural source would be blood.
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Any thoughts??