Nordic Noir discussion
General
>
**New Moderator/ Escaping to the Azores
date
newest »
newest »
message 51:
by
Anna, the Enabler
(new)
Dec 13, 2012 04:10PM
Hey, if she knows any Latin based ones (Italian, Spanish, French etc), it'll be a piece of cake. :)
reply
|
flag
She's studied all of them. She's even studied Sami. I've studied 6 myself and can get the gist of say, a newpaper article in maybe ten. And together, we've studied ten separate languages. But they get rusty, and there's a big difference between studying a language at the university and having workplace fluency. You have to use a language nearly every day to have that. Would you believe even English is sometimes difficult for me? Because languages change on a day to day basis but you don't see it. If I watch American TV, they ref people I've never heard of, use expressions new to me. I speak the American English of 15 years ago.
The same problem with my helsinkese. Out of date since I moved away in the 90s, and when I try to read a book etc in Finnish, I get lost ("why would anyone even want to translate this book?" "why would anyone say that?" "I can't imagine anyone would actually say this" etc). Or my Nothern Brazilian from 10+ years ago - rusty, not used that much, but if/when hitting Portugal, it works to build back on. And yes, I would believe that... ;) (you sometimes seem pensieve when thinking something and before saying it IRL, sort of the same way I'd imagine inspector Vaara would)
I am pensive, often laconic. My gaps when speaking sometimes make people think I'm stupid or didn't understand something when I'm just thinking through what I want to say. I'm much more comfortable with the written than the spoken word. A dictionary of Helsinki slang came out last year. It's a fat book. I often can't understand, for instance, the kids downtown because they use so much much slang, and a lot of Finnish adults can't either.
I suppose it's fun to have your own secret code language. When we travel, my wife and I speak Finnish, thinking we're shutting everyone out, as so few do. But almost invariably, someone around us will understand.
James wrote: "I suppose it's fun to have your own secret code language. When we travel, my wife and I speak Finnish, thinking we're shutting everyone out, as so few do. But almost invariably, someone around us w..."My wife and I speak her language, Icelandic, when we travel. Haven't been caught out yet, although I've encountered Icelanders abroad who were certain nobody around them had a clue what they were saying.
But as you should have noticed so many times already... never assume that just because someone looks or doesn't look like a Finn/Icelandic/Brazilian/Chinese etc that they don't understand the not so likely understood language when you're abroad. American looking white in Helsinki? How would you know they aren't fluent in Mandarin or Cantonese? A Black American looking in London? How can you know he's not fluent in Finnish? A Pakistani looking man in Stockholm? Well, he probably doesn't speak Gaelic... but never take the risk if it was embarrassing. :)And talking about languages or travel... even if Finns are usually pretty easy to spot, I can't ever tell who's a Finn at Minneapolis airport. (I love observing people at the airports, who doesn't?) They all (the white) look the same...
Still trying to figure some language to learn together with hubby... Portuguese is on the todo list for him (and on the getting less rusty again list for me). But something different, with a different alphabet even. Still can't make up our minds... Arabic, Korean, Japanese? He knows some Chinese (but so does his ex. I rather learn something from scratch with him). Something that isn't as ridiculously difficult as Finnish either. Suggestions? Judging from the alphabet, Korean looks the easiest, as Arabic just looks difficult to my eyes...
The only solution is a moribund language. And you can't use Latin.
I've gotten pretty good at spotting both Finns and Americans when traveling, maybe 50% right on both counts. Depends on which part of their respective countries they're from. A lot of Finns have a certain look, body posture, and demeanor. Many Americans have a way of seeming to take up twice as much room as they need, sort of sprawl, even when standing, and speak louder than most in the rest of the world. Finns are often the opposite. Finns frequently think they have a signature look, fair skin and faces shaped like frying pans, and some do, but not enough to stereotype. It's mostly a collection of small clues that give them away.
I got pretty fine tuned with spotting Italians (and figuring them by region), and distinguishing them from some Spanish (as some Spanish and Northern Italians can have a similar style in dressing so if I'm out of audible distance, I may also look at that). But there aren't that many Italians or Spaniards to spot here in the 'burbs...The last Finn spottings over here haven't gone that great (i.e. not noticing them until I heard the language, when in a place I didn't expect to hear that. Then again, neither of the speakers got any clue anyone might understand them).
And at Minneapolis... everyone looked too Finnish to me. But I could tell the difference between the Somalis, Eritreans, and black Americans. :) (also fascinating how much more integrated they were in MN in everything that I'd seen in F.. never mind my observations are more or less from the 90s when many of the Finns were not used to different looking people, the most different one and the only non-white they seemed to still have seen was Billy Carson in the TV).
Now maybe I'm also trying to spot "more" about the people, like when outside the US not just if someone is from the US but also which city or region.
By the way, you can probably do a better analysis for which part of the country some Finn is, also by the way they sound. If it's Hellsinki or its 'burbs, it sounds normal to me (i.e. not dialect), then Turku sounds different, and for the rest - if they use "mie" or "sie", I'm just assuming it's the Eastern part in general. Something that has been apparently not so for quite a few times...
esim. mie en taho = minä/mä en halua. That's Kittilä area Arctic dialect where Snow Angels is set and they also use mie/sie. It's a little hard for the filmmaker, as he's a Helsinki guy and the dialect is so different from Helsinki dialect. Yeah, there are an amazing number of dialects for such a small population.
One of my big fails in trying to guess the Finnish dialects (in Finland) was again with the mie/sie thing. Turned out the person talking was from somewhere around Oulu, not exactly what I'd define the area where I guessed (East)... Whereas I once asked a Russian colleague (in Ireland) how huge the Russian dialect differences are - as it's the largest country there is. He looked at me like I asked something odd, like there aren't any differences at all... I still find that hard to believe.
Anyway. Can't wait to see Snow Angels as a movie. What will I need to do to lobby a local cinema to show it here?
Don't know what's happening with the film, haven't heard anything for a while, which means the business end of things, distribution deals, stuff like that, are in process, and I'm not involved with that.I'm familiar with different dialects due to having dated women from different geographic areas--gotta talk to grandmas and all, ya know--and working with people from around the country. Bartenders migrate to where the busy seasons are. South in summer, north in winter. My wife is from Oulu, so I'm familiar with that dialect. People tend to take it easy on me and not use too many regional expressions.
I can see how there might be only one primary Russian dialect, as Stalin did his best to homogenize Russia. The process: invade a country. Ship most citizens out of said country to somewhere usually north in Russia. Wherever slave labor was needed. Re-populate said country with Russians. Estonia for example, had 70% of its citizens deported. Now, it's a bilingual country.
Jim, did you see this in HS today? Umayya's take (sorry for the others, it's in Finnish) on some things in Finland.
No, I hadn't. I just re-tweeted it and shared it on both my FB sites. Witnessing so many scenes as she decribes are a big part of why I wrote Helsinki White. In many ways, it's a true crime novel. After I finished writing that book, about the same time as the mass murder of children in Norway, I cancelled my subscription to Helsinki Sanomat, my main research source (my pile of clippings is two inches thick) because I was depressed and disillusioned and couldn't stand the news anymore. I'm only now able to stomach it again. Many people have told me that HW is a hard book to read. Think what it was like to write it. Please do send me such things. I'm embarking on a new book and will be seldom heard from on GR (or anywhere) until it's done, but I can always be reached at jamesthomsonauthor@gmail.com
Anna....you are going to have your hands full with these two! lol :) try not to run willy nilly yourself! and try NOT to go insane....you need to keep your head on straight! lol :)
yes...you guys are totally crazy!! lol
it takes one to know one ;)
I never denied being insane! in fact...take a peek at my tbr list...you'll see just how insane I am!! lol :)
Catherine wrote: "but I'm not in charge here! :)"Hmm. Who's in charge? I pictured an oligarchy, and the group is so small that everyone involved is automatically an elected official with voting rights.
Everyone has voting rights and ideas and (book...) talk is always welcome. :)
Naomi's alter ago is in charge most of the time ;)
