Brain Pain discussion
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Infinite Jest
Infinite Jest - Spine 2012
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Discussion - Week Six - Infinite Jest - Page 491 - 593
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Now this is fun.Did Poor Tony kill the woman when he took artificial heart? Who the heck was she?
Green’s mother a victim of involuntary manslaughter with the can of snakes from Green’s father.
Green’s father after his “psycho-spiritually breakdown” packs a case of Acme’s Blammo Cigars “with vengefully lethal tetryl-based high explosives,” and, as a result, a “V.F.W., three Rotarians, and 24 Shriners had been grotesquely decapitated.
James Sr. death on page 500 fell on bed. I guess that’s natural.
The AFR's murders of the Antitoi brothers (480-89) Lucien Antitoi and brother Bertraund. The broom shoved down the throat was gruesome.
Also, I’ve noticed quite a few horrific “accidents” for example--
Lateral Alice Moore
“Queer eccentric pockets of intransigence and Ludditism, due possibly to her helicopter-crash and neurologic deficits.” I just loved that sentence.
Finally—has anyone seen Powell’s Peeping Tom? I think it was Hal who had the movie poster on his wall. I’ve been starting to think of Mario (the tripod kid) as that peeping tom in the movie. The director had a camera with a knife mounted on it and killed women and filmed their final dying terror. Also, he was abused as a child with experiments on fear and the nervous system by his dad who filmed the experiments.
Mod
Did Poor Tony kill the woman when he took artificial heart? Who the heck was she?
Green’s mother a victim of involuntary manslaughter with the can of snakes from Green’s father...."
Right! The heart-in-a-purse killing, which is how poor Tony ends up doing Actual Withdrawal in the men's room. Did you sense he dies at the end of that scene?
Did you think James Sr. died? I thought maybe he just passed out drunk. More Wallacian ambiguity.
I also forgot Bruce Green's father being executed by lethal injection for the exploding cigar murders.
The bodies do pile up a bit...
but who was that woman? that's the same kind of heart Marathe's wife needs I think.I didn't think P.T. Krause died but I better reread. I guess he hasn't come back from that scene.
also--another killing unless Jim includes them as "politicians" and I don't think so--The AFR's murders of the Antitoi brothers (480-89) Lucien Antitoi and brother Bertraund. The broom shoved down the throat was gruesome. they're the guys who sold Psychosis to Pemulis. they were terrorists selling drugs to the youth to corrupt and bring down the usa or something like that. somehow the Entertainment was tracked to their cell.
I love the way Wallace plays with words. Instead of having a recurring dream, Lenz has a "recurving" dream, bringing us back to that whole circle idea. One of my favorites, though, was "emminent nondomain" back on page 404. If emminent domain is the legal term for the process by which a government takes a private citizen's land, then "emminent nondomain" is a very apt term for a process by which a government unloads toxic territory on someone else.
Mod
He definitely does a lot of that. I like it when one character points out the misuse to another, although sometimes both Wallace and the characters let it slide.
I finally finished the week six reading this morning. Green's story really has an impact. I wonder if David Foster Wallace found it cathartic to create characters with life stories like that? So much improbable tragedy to befall one person, starting so early in his life.
Mod
He did spend some time in an Ennet House type facility and I imagine he heard all kinds of Green-like stories. I wouldn't want to presume too much, but I imagine he took the essence of people's stories and fictionalized them for IJ, cranking up the psychic volume to achieve his effects. Pretty awesome stuff. You're a few pages away from a very intense scene of graphic violence, so prepare yourself!!
I just wanted to let people know I'm still alive & reading IJ even if I am only at page 400 (pretty good, actually: by page 300 I was considering quitting-only this discussion kept me going). Life got in the way (having to find a new place to live & now-hopefully-actually moving) but I keep plugging. I have to "confess" & note that DFW's description of AA is amazingly accurate, not even all that exaggerated, believe it or not. I'm sure he did just take the essence of the stories-as he (or Gately) points out, they're all essentially the same, no matter how exciting or mundane: drank, it was fun, it was no longer fun, it was hell, and somehow it was over & a new life begun. Although he's not much, at least not yet, on the new life part. Anyway, this part has been a tremendous relief after the difficulty of the Eschaton game-I swear, it's only the video that kept me going.
Mod
Glad to know you're with us! As always, my best wishes in finding your new home.
The AA stuff is pretty awesome, especially the White Flag Crocodiles and the endless coffee and cigarettes.
For some reason, I can't entirely wrap my head around the idea of marijuana addiction. Maybe that's just because I haven't been there myself. I have too many friends and relatives to count who were/are alcoholic or drug-addicted (and died as a result) but for some reason it never happened to me. I suppose if it did, I'd be just as in denial as these characters are. There but for the grace of, etc...
BTW, I find myself watching The Decemberists Eschaton video every week and wishing there was more of this kind of thing. Maybe Orin hang gliding into the Cardinals' stadium, or The Moms roto-tilling and freaking out about the mold, or Mario filming the tennis matches from the stands, etc. The scenes are all so cinematic!
Casceil wrote: "I finally finished the week six reading this morning. Green's story really has an impact. I wonder if David Foster Wallace found it cathartic to create characters with life stories like that? So..."I think every character has suffered not so much "improbable tragedy" but "improbable" child abuse--or was it improbable? Every child has suffered almost absurdly and yet nonironically by his/her parents, often sexual abuse. Every child in this book except Mario is estranged from his parents. Coming from a dysfunctional family myself, i can only laugh and then sigh. I like how at the Ennet house, these survivors attempt to establish relationships. now I am wondering about Gately and Joelle. I am really rooting for them. They're the only characters I really care about.
Casceil wrote: "I finally finished the week six reading this morning. Green's story really has an impact. I wonder if David Foster Wallace found it cathartic to create characters with life stories like that? So..."I think every character has suffered not so much "improbable tragedy" but "improbable" child abuse--or was it improbable? Every child has suffered almost absurdly and yet nonironically by his/her parents, often sexual abuse. Every child in this book except Mario is estranged from his parents. Coming from a dysfunctional family myself, i can only laugh and then sigh. I like how at the Ennet house, these survivors attempt to establish relationships. now I am wondering about Gately and Joelle. I am really rooting for them. They're the only characters I really care about.
Ellie,Do not quit this book! It's so incredible in
Ellie,I'm glad you didn't give up on the IJ. At various times I felt a bit daunted
With finishing a week's reading to partici
Sorry all. Using safari on an iPhone is not an ideal way to post.Just wanted to say Ellie that I'm glad you are keeping up with reading
IJ. It's very very good and I agree the AA scenes are dead on accurate.
But more importantly its almost as if Wallace ants you to read this slowly.
Also, given my current financial situation and dealing with possible
Evictions numerous months in a row, I relate to the whole real life
Stress thing.
Also, things start getting more coherent and the plot comes together.
Okay gotta go back to work but bye!
Thanks for the support everyone! I am continuing with IJ, slow but steady.
Mod
De nada! Priority one is family and security. We'll always be here to discuss with you when life permits.
Glad you liked the Eschaton video. Thanks to Michael for sharing the link! Turns out the Eschaton game breakdown is a kind of tipping point of the story. Repercussions follow swiftly - well, sort of swiftly, since everything in IJ gets spread out over so many pages. Things to review if you found that section difficult are: 1. which younger kids were injured and 2. which older kids are considered "responsible" for the breakdown, since they are supposed to be mentoring the younger ones. This will all come to bear in the remainder of the book.
Thanks for the tips-although I'm a bit horrified at having to go back and reread that section.
Mod
You could probably just skim for the names. Most of the repercussions will be pointed at Hal and Pemulis. Otis P. Lord received the biggest injury - head through computer monitor.
I remember Otis, poor boy. Thanks for the suggestion-will follow.
Begins: WINTER, B.S. 1963, SEPULVEDA CA I remember I was eating lunch and reading something dull by Bazin
Himself helps his Dad from Glad move the family mattress. Ken E. works on his Boston NA hug technique. Marathe and Steeply, part 58. Tavis keeps the big buddies waiting in the blue room while The Moms runs the monthly diddle-check. Steeply and Marathe seem to be winding down… maybe. Gately tries to get
intounder Joelle’spantsveil. Randy Lenz sublimates his rage by bagging pussy. Tine and his metric ruler head to metro Boston to substantiate the samizdat situation. Pemulis pops in for a quick word with Mrs. Inc. Lenz does some purposeful Bing to help cut Green loose from the night walks, but becomes a bit more chatty than he planned. Hal photo synthesizes. Lenz continues his monologue with fun facts about the fauna of the Great Concavity. Snippets from Gateley’s log. After getting nada off Helen Steeply, O. has a Swiss Subject for lunch. As poor Booger melts down about temporal-flux, Pemulis helps Idris dispose of a little urine. Orin notices wheelchairs again. Bruce Green follows the sound of Don Ho and espies Randy Lenz sublimating his rage. Mario takes a late-night stroll.This week’s reading takes us well past the mid-way point of the book. The plot does seem to be thickening a bit. A second Ennet House resident has committed homicide against a Nuck, though this time an innocent dog instead of a cell-leader with a head cold. Methinks there may be trouble dans l’avenir…
This might be a good time for a body count:
Homicides:
Gately kills a Nuck during a burglary.
Dr. Wo Kills C with a hot dose.
Les frères Antitoi hear the squeak.
The many Canadian politicians who “heard the squeak”.
Bruce Green’s mom via “snake in the can” prank gone horribly wrong.
Domestic faunacides:
Randy Lenz kills rats, cats, and one dog too many.
Orin suffocates many Arizonian roaches.
President Gentle’s policies kill many creatures in the Great Concavity, though to his credit, some species are thriving.
Suicides:
Himself
Clipperton
The tennis prodigy who offed himself with Nesquik and cyanide, and committed eight counts of accidental manslaughter when his family tried to resuscitate him, but we can’t prosecute a dead prodigy, can we?
Failed Suicides:
Joelle
Kate Gompert
There are probably more than I am remembering here. Feel free to add to the list.
To avoid spoilers, please restrict your comments to page 491 - 593 (and the earlier pages).