Miévillians discussion
Perdido Str Station Discussion
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SECTION 11: Chapters 27-28 (Nov, 15)
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Traveller wrote: "Chapter 28: We finally meet The Weaver. So, guys, what do you think of The Weaver?."Best thing/being/deity/character (construct) ever. If the rest of the book had sucked, I would've still been happy. Because Weaver.
(I'm afraid I used up all my eloquence concerning that particular creature in my review, and it seems very pretentious to copy paste that over here. So you get this.)
Traveller wrote: "It was not a triumph, though, not the final great vindication of love that she would have chosen."Ironically, Isaac seems to have dropped his guard in public, because he believed he was amongst friends, in particular David, "an old friend, of similarly libertarian principles".
I love the rhythms of The Weaver's speech. I'm going to try to create a Weaver haiku for my review.
Ian wrote: "Traveller wrote: "It was not a triumph, though, not the final great vindication of love that she would have chosen."Ironically, Isaac seems to have dropped his guard in public, because he believe..."
Yes, how ironic... :(
Weaver... A creature whose speech patterns put me on a verge of brain hemorrhage, an aesthetically inclined sociopath (if I could apply human definitions to it), its huge spider-like body forever reminding me of Pennywise the Clown's other incarnation in Stephen King's "IT"... Reading any parts of this book featuring Weaver makes me wonder whether I'm tripping on dreamshit. I can imagine China Miéville waging bets with himself on the ability to create the most mind-boggling creatures in literature - and, of course, winning each and every time. Well, I will have more to say when I get to some other parts with Weaver.
I liked Weaver! I will explain in those later parts why. Maybe we should discuss him later rather, you are quite right, N! I should perhaps have connected this section of the novel to more of the other previous or following chapters-- the amounts of threads in this event are becoming rather mind-boggling in themselves..
Nataliya wrote: "Weaver... A creature whose speech patterns put me on a verge of brain hemorrhage, an aesthetically inclined sociopath (if I could apply human definitions to it), its huge spider-like body forever r..."Interesting. Pennywise was the bane of my youth, but only in clown form. The memory of that horror in spider form didn't affect my love for Weaver at all.
Aubrey wrote: "Interesting. Pennywise was the bane of my youth, but only in clown form. The memory of that horror in spider form didn't affect my love for Weaver at all."I dislike spiders. maybe that's why I'm extra-sensitive to giant spiders popping into existence in my favorite fiction works.
Weaver is terrifying to me - because he is so unpredictable. It is scary when you cannot reason with a sentient creature because its motivations are so alien and non-understandable, and therefore cannot be anticipated and/or relied upon.
Weaver follows only its own weaver-y logic, and he can seemingly carelessly inflict huge casualties in his pursuit of harmony/beauty/whatever he pursues, and there is nothing a person can do about it.
The powerlessness that he evokes is the scary part.
Nataliya wrote: "Weaver is terrifying to me - because he is so unpredictable. "Weaver's a "he"? I didn't predict that - and I've already read the book! I always assumed Weaver was female - just 'coz male spiders usually don't amount to much (rather like male khepri).
Derek wrote: "Nataliya wrote: "Weaver is terrifying to me - because he is so unpredictable. "Weaver's a "he"? I didn't predict that - and I've already read the book! I always assumed Weaver was female - just ..."
No, it was just my assumption (Weaver is referred to as 'it' in the book - I just checked). It's my linguistic assumption - my native language is Russian where words all have gender, and 'spider' in Russian is male (and, for instance, a fox is a female); also, the words 'weaver' and 'spider' just phonetically sound masculine to me, and so I slip and (possibly erroneously) follow my inner default linguist.
Nataliya wrote: "Weaver is terrifying to me - because he is so unpredictable. It is scary when you cannot reason with a sentient creature because its motivations are so alien and non-understandable, and therefore cannot be anticipated and/or relied upon. Weaver follows only its own weaver-y logic, and he can seemingly carelessly inflict huge casualties in his pursuit of harmony/beauty/whatever he pursues, and there is nothing a person can do about it. "
You have much healthier self preservation mechanisms than I do. I'm not nearly as concerned with the thought of what Weaver could do to me as I am enamored with the fact that they aren't the slightest bit pandering or hypocritical or, in a sense, 'false'. It's refreshing to come across a character that just is what it is that doesn't bother to pretend otherwise, and forces everyone else to deal. True, everyone's terrified out of their minds, but it's a reaction that's a lot more real to me than all the conniving and societal maneuvering and posturing that usually happens.
Derek wrote: "Nataliya wrote: "Weaver is terrifying to me - because he is so unpredictable. "
Weaver's a "he"? I didn't predict that - and I've already read the book! I always assumed Weaver was female - just ..."
Ha ha, I like your logic! I myself prefer to use them/they when it comes to the Weaver. I can't imagine them limiting themselves to a single gender.
Yes, i must admit that i didn't attach gender to Weaver at all. To me, Weaver is like a spinner of fate, which, as we know, is not controllable by humans, and can seem whimsical if you'd want to personify it.
I like Weaver very much. She is one character that encompasses all of what is in the Bas - lag world. She dotes on our adventurers like an unpredictable mother hen while she traverses time and space in her very own dimension.
Does anyone else think that Derkham's just hanging on for that time when Lin falls by the wayside so she can get Issac to herself?
I thought she was waiting for Lin...
@Derek: Yeah, I was about to say that I assumed that she was a lesbian. Although she could go both ways. As for sticking with the group, considering the fact that Isaac is caught up with whatever caused the militia to go after Derkhan's colleague, it'd be logical for her to stay with them in order to find out what's going on.
Annie wrote: "Does anyone else think that Derkham's just hanging on for that time when Lin falls by the wayside so she can get Issac to herself?"Hhmmmm.. actually I'd never thought of that, I must admit.
I simply never really thought of Derkhan as a sexual being, and probably thought it would be Ben for her, if anybody. And possibly thought of her as bi-sexual or asexual,--whatever.
But yes, she and Isaac do seem to be close- i did wonder why it was Derkhan who visited the freak with him, for instance, and not Lin.
They could simply just be very good friends, of course.
Trav, did you adopt the name of Derkhan in one of your posts or messages?"Derkhan was a lovely woman...Derkhan was pale, tall and thin..." (page 68)
(view spoiler)
Derkhan Blueday at your service. She's leading the group read, yes. ;) (Or was supposed to, at any rate)
Traveller wrote: "Chapter 28: We finally meet The Weaver. So, guys, what do you think of The Weaver? :)"First thought? Shelob.
I especially like the description of entering the room:
"As they passed into the room, all felt a moment of dislocation, a wispy unease that prickled across their skin with a quasi-physical momentum... invisible filaments of spun aether and emotion, were draped in intricate patterns... and were rippling and sticking to the intruders"
Nataliya wrote (comment 6): "Reading any parts of this book featuring Weaver makes me wonder whether I'm tripping on dreamshit."
Exactly, and that impression was reinforced by the fact its speech is described as "dream-poetics".
And we're introduced to another strange food: "the appreciation of beauty".
I also like the disconnect from a dangerously amoral being, motivated by beauty: in this world, beauty certainly doesn't equate to goodness.
Cecily wrote: "Traveller wrote: "Chapter 28: We finally meet The Weaver. So, guys, what do you think of The Weaver? :)"First thought? Shelob.
I especially like the description of entering the room:
"As they pa..."
Cool, I had actually forgotten about Shelob...
Cecily wrote: "I also like the disconnect from a dangerously amoral being, motivated by beauty: in this world, beauty certainly doesn't equate to goodness. "
"
Hm, and actually not in ours either--we just tend to ascribe goodness to beauty.
True: beauty is rarely a guarantee of goodness, but nevertheless, we generally like to link the two. No chance of that for Rudgutter and his crew.
A bit further on, we see one of the passages that makes me feel that hiding Lin had been Isaac's choice, not Lin's:
At one point in that long, miserable evening, Lin had reflected that something had finally happened to make Isaac acknowledge her. He had held her hands on arrival. He had not even ostentatiously thrown up a duplicitous spare bed when she had agreed to stay. It was not a triumph, though, not the final great vindication of love that she would have chosen.
Isaac, David, Lin and Yagharek realize that the grub, now pupated and flown, might have a more sinister source than they might have imagined.
Derkhan visits Petty Coil to find a medium and contact Benjamin. After their sad encounter, she then finds Isaac in the pub, and they find that they have a common point of interest in needing to find Dr. Barbile.
Chapter 28: We finally meet The Weaver. So, guys, what do you think of The Weaver? :)