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For Fans Only! The Status of the Twilight Threads
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Mickey wrote: "I think it would be interesting to have a in-depth conversation about Bella beyond the level of "she's weak and dependent and setting women back 100 years"! Or an in-depth conversation about the re..."Please let me know if a new Twilight group starts up so I can join in the good conversations! I agree - I'd like the chance to discuss those topics instead of feeling the need to defend all the time.
Amy wrote: "Please let me know if a new Twilight group starts up so I can join in the good conversations! I agree - I'd like the chance to discuss those topics instead of feeling the need to defend all the time."I want to do it on the book threads. In my opinion, that's where these discussions belong.
Mickey wrote: "Amy wrote: "Please let me know if a new Twilight group starts up so I can join in the good conversations! I agree - I'd like the chance to discuss those topics instead of feeling the need to defend..."So we should definitely commit to "ignoring" the negative comments and discuss around them until the haters get the drift and give up.
Guys, I know I may be repeating myself but you have here what you're discussing creating. You have a thread which for some reason, the haters haven't bothered with. I'm not a die hard Twilight fan but I thought it was ok and I like hearing different opinions on things, It keeps life interesting. So there you go.What If I was to pose a question now? Hell, I will pose a question, here it is, I'd love some honest and new opinions on it. (read it all before assuming its another negative question.)
As a reader, I found the Twilight books to be OK. An easy read if you will. As the main character, I personally found Bella to be lacking in several areas. What was it about Bella that you liked and thought made her a great lead with more depth than initially observed?
(Hope you don't mind me starting this but it seems a shame to discuss making something which is right in front of you.)
Instead of changing the conversation here, why don't we make more threads?
Nichola wrote: "Guys, I know I may be repeating myself but you have here what you're discussing creating. You have a thread which for some reason, the haters haven't bothered with. I'm not a die hard Twilight fa..."As a high school teacher, I spend my days with teenage girls the same age as Bella. Compared to what I've seen in the past 10 years of teaching, she is a pretty typical teen. She can be whiny and selfish, just like any other teen. Teenage girls (the vast majority) feel like the world they live in is the most important world out there as their life experiences are so narrow, and they are also hormonal and dramatic. I know there are exceptions to these observations - I have taught several exceptions. So, when people call Bella whiny, immature, and selfish, I think - so what? She is very much like a majority of teenage girls.
I like that she is realistic with flaws. I like that she loves to read and is studious and quiet. I have taught many girls who are shy, quiet readers who work hard on their academics. Those girls liked Bella as well because they could see themselves in her. I like that she cares deeply for her parents. She takes care of her flighty mom, and she takes care of her dad - all without complaint. She is willing to do her share in helping in the house unlike so many teens who would whine about it or throw a fit. I like that she tried to find the good in Edward instead of just listening to his self evaluation of being a terrible monster.
I'm not saying she is perfect - she is far from it, but none of us are perfect either. I also thought she had very brave intentions. She was reckless, but her intentions were brave. She set out to save her mom from James, she ran off to draw Victoria toward her rather than her father and the town, she cut herself to draw Victoria and Riley's attention off Edward, and she fought everyone to keep her baby. Yes, she went overboard in New Moon for her depression, but who am I to say how she should grieve for her love? To her at that point, Edward was "dead." She is definitely more likeable than a lot of book characters I've read.
Amy wrote: "I like that she loves to read and is studious and quiet. I have taught many girls who are shy, quiet readers who work hard on their academics. Those girls liked Bella as well because they could see themselves in her."I agree! I think she is usually a very closed person, very quiet and someone who you can't really tell what she thinks or feels (I'm thinking more of how her classmates or others who knew her casually would view her.) I don't think she had a strong belief in her exceptionality like many teens have, which makes her exceptional story more interesting.
(This is so much more interesting than whether Bella is weak!)
Mickey wrote: "Amy wrote: "I like that she loves to read and is studious and quiet. I have taught many girls who are shy, quiet readers who work hard on their academics. Those girls liked Bella as well because th..."She is an introvert and a little socially awkward. She has a hard time reading other people - evidenced in how she doesn't recognize when people - male or female - are interested in her. I think this is part of how she can be selfish and selfless all in one. She is a little selfish when it comes to keeping Edward near her and keeping Jacob tied to her, but she is also selfless in how she gives so much for her mom, dad, and Edward. I also find her to be a very devoted person - once she has made a connection/commitment, she is willing to go on the line for that person. She even thinks of Ben and Angela when she thinks of the people she wants to protect from the newborn army. I think we all have moments and points of weakness, and there is nothing wrong with showing a character's weaknesses - that is reality.
Mickey wrote: "I think it would be interesting to have a in-depth conversation about Bella beyond the level of "she's weak and dependent and setting women back 100 years"! Or an in-depth conversation about the re..."Awesome ideas!
Are we gonna make new threads or just gonna discuss here?
I think we could start a thread or two at first, then more later.
@Amy:
Great post! :)
What first drew me to Bella was her "plainness". No dark tortured past, no exceptional talents. Just a regular girl (at first anyway). A lot of people criticize her lack of interests but I think this is typical. Not every teenage girl (or person for the matter) have a lot of hobbies or "passions". She liked reading and cooking. I can certainly relate.
She doesn't fit it with most people, that adds to her relatability and appeals to my soft side that wants "misfits" to succeed and be happy.
Other people have already talked about her devotion to the people she loves. I find that her best trait.
I think everyone is adding great comments and my question was genuine. I like the points about her being your average plain teenager. You all seem to want new threads, just start them! :) you've created a group to join in already :)
Peace wrote: "i wonder if its just any twi books or just the whole saga?"I'm not too sure what you're asking here?
Diane wrote: "What first drew me to Bella was her "plainness". No dark tortured past, no exceptional talents. Just a regular girl (at first anyway). A lot of people criticize her lack of interests but I think ..."
I agree! I know students over the years who are really very similar to Bella. I also like a book where the female protagonist who wins the heart of the handsome charming man isn't the overly-stereotypical beautiful, popular, rich cheerleader-type. That gives the male protagonist a little more depth as well. It takes more for Edward to like Bella, the awkward introvert rather than Miss Popular Jessica or Lauren.
Amy wrote: "Diane wrote: "What first drew me to Bella was her "plainness". No dark tortured past, no exceptional talents. Just a regular girl (at first anyway). A lot of people criticize her lack of interes..."
I liked that aside from wanting to be a vampire, she didn't change who she was for Edward. So many young girls try to be what they think their boyfriend wants, but Bella didn't do that. She simply was who she was.
I also liked how appreciative she was when she found out Charlie bought her a truck, even one as old as the one she got. And how much she ended up loving it. I thought it was endearing when she was so moved that he put the chains on her tires because she wasn't used to being taken care of.
I think Edward was a good match for her, because he didn't need her to take care of him. Bella always seems to put herself in the position to take care of others. She spends a lot of time worrying about others (even in New Moon, when she was in a depression). I think she needed someone whom she couldn't take care of (he doesn't need to be fed or picked up after). Edward always made Bella's happiness a top priority and I think if she had ended up with a human (including Jacob), she would have repeated her usual pattern of caretaking.I think this reversal of need is part of the appeal of Twilight. I think so many women feel that they have to take care of everyone, that it's nice to read about the focus on the woman's needs being primary.
Peace wrote: "Nichola wrote: "Peace wrote: "i wonder if its just any twi books or just the whole saga?"I'm not too sure what you're asking here?"
my Q is the books all about the whole twi saga that here?"
I don't know hun but I'm assuming the people on this thread are happy to discuss any of the saga as long as they're not having to defend it.
Angie wrote: I liked that aside from wanting to be a vampire, she didn't change who she was for Edward. So many young girls try to be what they think their boyfriend wants, but Bella didn't do that. She simply was who she was..."I agree and even more importantly, Edward liked her just the way she was. He didn't want to change anything about her.
I thought one of the most important moments in Breaking Dawn was when Bella was asking Edward if he still loved her even if her scent had changed and she no longer attracted him that way. I think this points to the fact that she had accepted that he loved her for who she was, and when she changed, she was worried that his feelings would change. It also points to the fact that she didn't see changing to a vampire as a chance to win his approval.
Amy wrote: "I also thought she had very brave intentions. She was reckless, but her intentions were brave. She set out to save her mom from James, she ran off to draw Victoria toward her rather than her father and the town, she cut herself to draw Victoria and Riley's attention off Edward, and she fought everyone to keep her baby."yeah, I also liked her for all those actions. but I thought her most admirable decision was her determination to not let edward see her pain during her transformation. it sounded really difficult, and she didn't even need to do it- edward was already prepared to listen to her scream for days. but she added to her own already significant pain in order to lessen edward's, which I think showed incredible devotion.
(and this does feel strange! I like it! :D)
Kirby wrote: "(and this does feel strange! I like it! :D)"Doesn't it? I keep expecting a rebuke.
Mickey wrote: " It also points to the fact that she didn't see changing to a vampire as a chance to win his approval."Aww yes. Great observation.
I have always thought that Bella would've wanted to be a vampire regardless if she met Edward or not. She's drawn to supernaturals, she feels at ease with vampires (which was clearly not normal).
I think that her decision to be a vampire was more for her than for Edward.
edit: I'm wondering if Bella being drawn to the wolves or comfortable with them has anything to do with her "not being part of the human world". Or maybe the wolves are just easy to get along with? Or her connection with Jacob made it easy for her to be part of that family?
Diane wrote: "I'm wondering if Bella being drawn to the wolves or comfortable with them has anything to do with her "not being part of the human world". Or maybe the wolves are just easy to get along with? Or her connection with Jacob made it easy for her to be part of that family?"Interesting question! Perhaps what makes her blood so attractive to vampires has to do with some slight genetic difference between her and others. (Like maybe someone down her ancestry was supernatural.) The only problem is that nobody reacts to Charlie or Renee in the same way that they react to Bella. (Although maybe it skipped a generation? Doesn't Bella strongly resemble her grandmother?)
You would think that maybe she had some American Indian ancestry in her from the proximity of the tribe, but I think that this tinge would make her blood less pleasing to the vampires than others, not more.
It's an interesting idea to think of what supernatural creature vampires would have such a reaction to. Perhaps a mermaid? They are known for their ability to mesmerize and attract.
Mickey wrote: "Perhaps what makes her blood so attractive to vampires has to do with some slight genetic difference between her and others."Yes, a genetic difference. That could be it.
(Yes, I do believe she resembled her Granma Marie.)
I did wonder if those people who are meant to be vampires have blood that is more appealing to vampires. Maybe it would help attract vampires to change them, but then again, for some it would just encourage vampires to kill them and drink every last drop lol.
Maybe Bella's "gift" (shield) was part of the package of having a genetic difference. Though not all vampires have gifts.
Maybe their gifts are attract vampires? Edward was able to identify that Bella was different even though she was normal to humans.
Perhaps James was able to recognize Alice's gift when she was in the asylum. (I don't think it's canon right? Was it never confirmed or denied that James was the one who changed Alice? I read such a great fanfiction on that, very believable.)
It's an interesting idea to think of what supernatural creature vampires would have such a reaction to. Perhaps a mermaid? They are known for their ability to mesmerize and attract.
Nymphs, fairies, selkies maybe?
Diane wrote: "Mickey wrote: "Perhaps what makes her blood so attractive to vampires has to do with some slight genetic difference between her and others."Yes, a genetic difference. That could be it.
(Yes, I d..."
If I remember correctly, James intended to kill Alice as a human but another vampire saved her by turning her first.
Charlie technically had the same gift as Bella, just to a lesser degree. I think it was in Midnight Sun, but there was mention that Edward only hears Charlie's thoughts in short phrases or isolated words here and there, not in complete thoughts like everyone else.
I don't think it was so much of a genetic difference as it was a personality trait. Bella had a self-imposed closed-offness about her and that is why she was immune to all of the vampire powers that involved manipulating the mind in some way. Btw, I loved how at the end of Breaking Dawn, she learns how to control her power so that she can open up and allow Edward to read her mind when she wants to. I think that speaks volumes to her growth and development as a character.
Mocha Spresso wrote: "Charlie technically had the same gift as Bella, just to a lesser degree. I think it was in Midnight Sun, but there was mention that Edward only hears Charlie's thoughts in short phrases or isolated words here and there, not in complete thoughts like everyone else."Interesting. I've been debating back and forth on whether I should read Midnight Sun. I usually don't read books that are unfinished by their authors. There's also the added motivation of respecting the author's privacy, who initially didn't want it shared. I'm curious about Edward's voice, though.
Mickey wrote: Interesting. I've been debating back and forth on whether I should read Midnight Sun. I usually don't read books that are unfinished by their authors. There's also the added motivation of respecting the author's privacy, who initially didn't want it shared. I'm curious about Edward's voice, though ..."I actually liked Edward's POV more than Bella's. You get more insight into the characters from him and his insight is more reliable because it is their actual thoughts as opposed to Bella's perceptions of their actions. Plus, Edward also saw more because there was so much that he hid from her with the intention of protecting her.
Mickey wrote: "Mocha Spresso wrote: "Charlie technically had the same gift as Bella, just to a lesser degree. I think it was in Midnight Sun, but there was mention that Edward only hears Charlie's thoughts in sho..."What's midnight sun?
It sound cool, but I've never heard of it before.
Could you fill me in a little bit? That's one thing I thought was missing from the twilight books. I really wanted to hear things from the Cullen's POV, ESPECIALLY Edward. :)
Rachael wrote: "Mickey wrote: "Mocha Spresso wrote: "Charlie technically had the same gift as Bella, just to a lesser degree. I think it was in Midnight Sun, but there was mention that Edward only hears Charlie's ..."http://www.stepheniemeyer.com/midnigh...
Go to the bottom of the first post, August 28th, 2008 and click on Partial Draft. This will let you download the PDF of the story.
Mocha Spresso wrote: "I actually liked Edward's POV more than Bella's. You get more insight into the characters from him and his insight is more reliable because it is their actual thoughts as opposed to Bella's perceptions of their actions. Plus, Edward also saw more because there was so much that he hid from her with the intention of protecting her."It's so tempting to read that. I've determined to wait until she finishes and publishes it, but I will probably break down and read it eventually if she doesn't hurry up.
What's everyone's view on the reaction to this thread? I was pleasantly surprised when the trolls stayed away (well, for the most part).
One of the things I enjoy is to be able to discuss the books with people who have read them and remember them. It seems like I've spent a lot of time on other threads correcting mistakes. (Well, actually, that didn't happen like that. It says in the book it happened like this...). It's nice to talk to people who can discuss them in depth like this.
Mocha Spresso wrote: "Mickey wrote: Interesting. I've been debating back and forth on whether I should read Midnight Sun. I usually don't read books that are unfinished by their authors. There's also the added motivatio..."Me too, though I am a HUGE fan of twilight, I love Midnight Sun. Too bad it's not finished. But anyway, I think The emotion Edward brings to it is incredible, and it's interesting to see the way he thinks of Bella vs. the way Bell thinks if herself. You have to read it Mickey, it is incredible
Mickey wrote: "Mocha Spresso wrote: "I actually liked Edward's POV more than Bella's. You get more insight into the characters from him and his insight is more reliable because it is their actual thoughts as oppo..."Yeah, just break down and read it. I think I love it more than Twilight, even in an incomplete version. You really, really get why he loves her so completely, and it surprised me on how early in the story he actually fell head over heels with her. Also, Edward is hilarious. Just do it, Mickey - here's the peer pressure :)
There needs to be some Twilight threads just for the true fans so that there will be no haters.
Abby wrote: "There needs to be some Twilight threads just for the true fans so that there will be no haters."ikr, Bill on another thread keeps saying that i intruded a thread. But anyone can voice their opinion so he needs to back off. I'm glad no haters have interupted this thread
In my opinion, there should always be plenty of threads around for everyone to have any sort of discussion on Twilight. I don't want to defend Twilight on every thread or have to hear people's complaints about it. There should be threads that are about other things.
ETA: I wouldn't worry about Bill too much, Jordan. I think (it's hard to be sure because he's been rather cryptic) he's operating under the impression that the fans are somehow being organized with this thread and are acting under orders in others. This is simply a paranoid delusion of his. It has nothing to do with who you are or how you behave on a thread.
Mickey wrote: "In my opinion, there should always be plenty of threads around for everyone to have any sort of discussion on Twilight. I don't want to defend Twilight on every thread or have to hear people's co..."
Thanks! Yeah, he does seem delusional. But I agree that there should be different threads for different things. Alot of threads are all about "how bad Twilight is" but not enough threads about how much they liked the book
Has any other fan had trouble in a Goodreads group because of Twilight? I'm shopping around for an all-purpose group to join so I can talk about my current reading (mostly non-fiction) and many of the groups I'm looking at are weighing in on Twilight. I generally try to avoid Twilight discussions outside of these threads because I always figure, if I want to defend Twilight, I might as well do it properly on the Twilight threads, but other people bring it up quite regularly. Even in classic literature groups, Twilight has been brought up.
Mickey wrote: "Has any other fan had trouble in a Goodreads group because of Twilight? I'm shopping around for an all-purpose group to join so I can talk about my current reading (mostly non-fiction) and many of ..."Yeah, I sometimes don't like being on these discussions either because people are never going to agree with me, but at the same time, I like defending Meyer because I like to put my opinion out there! Oh and to answer your first question, I don't like to join the groups usually, just not my thing, but when I did do the groups, I saw a lot that weren't Twilight related, so there should be plenty out there. There are probably just a ton of Twilight ones because to BDpart2.
I love the Twilight Saga more than any books ever read. I think that the reason there aren't many good threads is because all the people who love twilight are too involved in sticking up for twilight to create discussions.
i find that most of the people who acually are talking about the series are the people that are saying crap about either the series or Stephenie as a writer and it annoys me because I love the series! It's what got me into reading in the first place. I would not be a reader, or an aspiring novelist if I hadn't have discovered twilight. I love the whole series and the fact that she was able to come up with an original idea like this. it annoys me when peiople talk crap about it all the time. I have had mixwed feelings about this series throughout the years, but that's because I first read it when I was 13. I LOVE this series and it was and still is- amazing! the whole storyline and the characters and everything is amazing. It annoys me when people talk crap about a series and about someone who is so successful. Sorry for repeating myself a few times but I just feel strongly about the Twilight Saga and when people diss it I'm just like "No! You are disowned from my life! Go away!" but not actually because I have friends that don't like it, but they don't dis on it every single chance they get.
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I usually look towards the Harry Potter threads for what should be happening here. Many of those threads deal with distinctions between characters (Snape or James?), personal preference or experience (Which death was the most upsetting to you? Who was your favorite character?) and taking the world of the books and discussing the way that they function.
I think that, at first, it might feel a little strange to talk a different way, because defending has become such a habit. If the discussion is Bella, I have a lot of experience in defending from the usual criticism, but have I really explored who she was as a person? I'd love to hear other perspectives of the effects of her childhood on her views about love and relationships. What was the connection she felt with Jacob? It would be interesting to discuss where Edward and Jacob fit in the tradition of love triangles. In Meyer's view, what is the difference between natural love and supernatural love? Is the relationship between Edward and Bella portrayed as perfect or not? What was the overall effect of Edward's presence in her life? What do you consider the major turning points in their relationship? What other movie or book couple do they most resemble? Is it really better to be so in love with someone that it's a compulsion to be with them or is it better to choose someone in a more level-headed fashion? Would you want to imprint or choose?
I think all of these would be more interesting than another round of "Meyer overuses adjectives!"