Twilight
discussion
For Fans Only! The Status of the Twilight Threads
To be perfectly honest with you, I don't think there is anything that can be done. I think that the number of anti-twilight readers far out weighs the fans so there is always going to be a majority of "hate" threads as opposed to threads made up of people who really want to talk positively about Twilight. I'm a Twilight fan, but I do feel that everything that can be said has been said and I've moved on. Ive read great things and things that shit me off, but I just don't bother opening the threads anymore. Theres really not alot more that could be discussed. Its all been said.
Haidi wrote: "To be perfectly honest with you, I don't think there is anything that can be done. I think that the number of anti-twilight readers far out weighs the fans so there is always going to be a majority of "hate" threads as opposed to threads made up of people who really want to talk positively about Twilight."I think it depends on what you'd like to see happen. If your goal is to drive every hater into the sea, I think that's unrealistic. If you want more threads about aspects of the novel that would interest fans, I think that's something that can happen.
I don't know that there are more people who dislike the books. There are a lot of fans, but I think they're just disillusioned with the state of things around here.
Haidi wrote: "I'm a Twilight fan, but I do feel that everything that can be said has been said and I've moved on."
I think that, in the area of flaws of Twilight and defense of Twilight, everything has been said. But that's a small fraction of what could be said. I've talked about the fact that I've known and read the posts of other fans on here and I know their views on things like Bella's suicide attempt and Edward's insistence on not having sex until marriage, yet I don't know who their favorite character is or what book they thought was the best in the series or what really moved them about the series. I think there's a lot more that could be said, just not in the narrow vein we've been focusing on.
Personally, I'd like to see more variety outside of criticism. I'd like to see fans develop a stance outside of defending Twilight. I'd like us to enjoy the book together. I'd like to hear other fans give me a deeper perspective and appreciation of the books through sharing insights that I didn't pick up on. That's happened on topics for other books before, but I think we'd have to work on getting to that point here and I think it's going to require a conscious effort to get out of the rut we're in.
Like Tirzah, I'd suggest a reading group. Bear in mind that these are book forums, not fan forums, and their purpose is just as much debate as admiration - even if that debate has been hashed and rehashed into pulp. 9_9
I think there just needs to be more interaction between all of us.
any one who likes Twilight*_*
M.R. wrote: "Like Tirzah, I'd suggest a reading group. Bear in mind that these are book forums, not fan forums, and their purpose is just as much debate as admiration - even if that debate has been hashed and rehashed into pulp. 9_9"I think, even in book forums, there's room for fan discussion or things that do not revolve around "debate". Debate is there if you want to engage in it, but there's also other things. I usually look at the Harry Potter threads. There's more variety on there.
It would make sense to just not respond or engage the negativity at all. Basically, carry on our fan discussions around the negativity, completely ignoring it. But...it is so hard to ignore as well. I'm always baffled by the dedication the haters have to comment over and over and over about the same issues they hate. It makes no sense to expend so much energy to complain and gripe. Maybe we should just develop a fan group. Can invitations be sent only to people who rated the book a 4 or 5? I know I get invitations for author questions just because I rated a book 4 or 5? Any ideas? The only way a group could work was to ensure that the haters can't get in.
I was wondering, has there been a time when the twilight threads here have been a good place for fans?I think fans don't come here to discuss twilight anymore; they know how many antis there are. Most fans go to their twilight sites, groups, closed forums. Those are their "safe places" where they can be sure not to be insulted and ridiculed. Defending ourselves get really tiring.
There was a time when I stopped myself from participating here because most of the time I feel like I'm wasting my time. But since it's on the home page sometimes curiousity kicks in and I'm back here. I would really like to see more fans discussing things, though a lot of fans (I think) have their twilight needs met elsewhere (their safe places).
Perhaps if an anti joins in a particularly interesting topic, maybe we should try our best to steer the conversation away from defending ourselves again. Maybe we should say "this have been discussed in the _____ thread", or just not answer when the conversation heads to familiar waters. I've tried and failed though, so I'm not sure how easy/hard it will be for the other fans.
Diane wrote: "Perhaps if an anti joins in a particularly interesting topic, maybe we should try our best to steer the conversation away from defending ourselves again. Maybe we should say "this have been discussed in the _____ thread", or just not answer when the conversation heads to familiar waters. I've tried and failed though, so I'm not sure how easy/hard it will be for the other fans."I think we have to get away from the whole idea of defending Twilight. On one of the more recent threads I was on, an anti wanted me to make a case for why Meyer was a good writer, and I turned the tables on him and asked him to try to convince me that she was a bad writer. (Although that particular poster wouldn't/couldn't make a defense, another poster jumped in. This only lasted one exchange before she quit.) It's actually very novel to have a discussion based on a defense of Anti-Twilightism. It's a different way to think of it.
Mickey wrote: "Diane wrote: "Perhaps if an anti joins in a particularly interesting topic, maybe we should try our best to steer the conversation away from defending ourselves again. Maybe we should say "this ha..."Yes, table turning. That was very clever.
I'm not entirely sure I can do that but I can try. xD Being not on the defensive must be interesting.
Diane wrote: "I'm not entirely sure I can do that but I can try. xD Being not on the defensive must be interesting."In a debate, the proof goes both ways. Both sides should be able to make an argument to support their views. I think it's entirely legitimate to ask an anti to provide proof and to bring up points that do not fit his theory and ask him to respond. Haven't fans been asked to do that from the beginning?
Diane wrote: "I think fans don't come here to discuss twilight anymore; they know how many antis there are. Most fans go to their twilight sites, groups, closed forums. Those are their "safe places" where they can be sure not to be insulted and ridiculed. Defending ourselves get really tiring."I wonder if there's a way to get the fans back here. There was one incredibly ridiculous thread that had an absolute stranglehold on discussion for the longest time. There were three or four posters who would gang up on anyone who unwittingly ventured onto the thread, looking to discuss the topic. No one could discuss anything but these few posters. Once it was pointed out what was happening, (with these poster claiming that such a thing was not going on), it surprised me how quickly people came onto the topic and managed to discuss without being manhandled by the regular posters. There are many people who I think would participate if these threads could be made a bit less antagonistic to them.
Mickey wrote: "Diane wrote: "I'm not entirely sure I can do that but I can try. xD Being not on the defensive must be interesting."In a debate, the proof goes both ways. Both sides should be able to make an ar..."
True that.
I'm afraid it has become a habit with most fans to not ask and just defend. And also to ignore rude comments. I call them out sometimes, other times it's like "what's the use? nobody cares", and sometimes I just completely skip over the rudeness and not notice.
Mickey wrote: "There are many people who I think would participate if these threads could be made a bit less antagonistic to them. ..."
It's worth a shot.
To make goodreads a safer place to the fans would be a step in the right direction.
I've been gone for two days and the threads are still more annoying than ever. The "is stephenie meyer a bad writer" thread is making me want to punch somebody, seriously.Antis being all snarky and "i'm so smart, i'm bettar than you!!!111" and "i'm just gonna make fun of everything". I find it all just really really annoying.
They never listen to discussion, they just want to say their part and mock fans.
A bunch of bored people probably. I would do well to stay away and just let them marinate in their own ennui but I really want the fans to take back the twilight boards.
Diane wrote: "The "is stephenie meyer a bad writer" thread is making me want to punch somebody, seriously."LOL you people should really relax more ;-)
Zoran wrote: "Diane wrote: "The "is stephenie meyer a bad writer" thread is making me want to punch somebody, seriously."LOL you people should really relax more ;-)"
You should respect more.
You probably think you're being funny with the mockery. We've had to endure those kind of comments for so long, it's beyond the point of ridiculous.
Can't you read? "For fans only!"
That's fairly simple english.
The lack of maturity in some of these threads is astounding. I'm amazed some of these people can read, let alone type actual words.You have anti's following fans from thread to thread to thread picking apart their every post. It's ridiculous, and now you have a pack mentality going on. Oh, well. At least they took something away from Twilight. LOL
Diane wrote: "You should respect more.You probably think you're being funny with the mockery. We've had to endure those kind of comments for so long, it's beyond the point of ridiculous."
You know that other topic where you are saying that if at least one person thinks a book is good, than that book is good?
I guess the same logic applied here would say that if I think I'm being funny, I am being funny.
Do you now see how that logic is wrong? :-p
Diane wrote: "Can't you read? "For fans only!"
That's fairly simple english.
"
Yeah, but I simply decided to ignore it :-p You know, like those writing rules that you said people can ignore if they wish.
But don't worry, I'll leave this topic alone from now on ;-)
I've noticed they tend to form a pack very quickly. What we need is more fan presence and more fan interaction. What are some of the more populated Twilight groups out there? Do any of you belong to these groups? I wonder what it would take to get them to come over here.
Mickey wrote: "I've noticed they tend to form a pack very quickly. What we need is more fan presence and more fan interaction. What are some of the more populated Twilight groups out there? Do any of you belong..."
I joined a Twilight group, but then left it when some of the girls got into arguments over who liked Twilight more. Yes, I'm looking for Twilight conversation, but I'm not looking for that kind of Twilight conversation.
Zoran wrote: "I guess the same logic applied here would say that if I think I'm being funny, I am being funny."
You're being funny to you. But I'm trying to make you see that you're being annoying and offensive to us.
All I'm trying to say is that it doesn't hurt to care about other people's feelings.
But that's obviously too much to ask for.
Yes, rules are sometimes ridic. But it doesn't take a genius to figure out how to respect other people.
"Respect". You should look it up in a dictionary.
Angie wrote: "I joined a Twilight group, but then left it when some of the girls got into arguments over who liked Twilight more. Yes, I'm looking for Twilight conversation, but I'm not looking for that kind of Twilight conversation."Really, I think that conversation would be fun just for the sake of novelty. I'm not sure we should bait Zoran, though. Fans having a conversation? He'll want to know where it is so he can post irrelevant comments.
Mickey wrote: "What are some of the more populated Twilight groups out there? Do any of you belong to these groups? I wonder what it would take to get them to come over here. ."
The twi group I joined was very active a year ago but not these days. I mostly go to another website for twilight fan interaction.
See what happens when you try to have a conversation with other Twilight fans? Someone saw fit to take our conversation here and post it in another thread. This is where the haters separate themselves from the people who simply don't like the books.Apparently there wasn't enough drama over there, so someone saw fit to try and drum some up. It really is a case of people being bored. Mostly adults, no less. And they think we're pathetic because we enjoy reading Twilight? Hi, Pot. This is Kettle...
I don't think it matters if they post it somewhere else. You can't tell me they don't come here and read it anyway. It's just really obsessive and a little stalkerish. I'm sure the irony of that will be lost, though.
Goodreads is around for intelligent discussion, not all this trolling and I think it's time that it was dealt with.
You could try hanging a "DON'T FEED THE TROLLS!" sign. :)The only way that you can really stop trolling is to start a moderated forum of your own. In a public forum like this, I think it just comes with the territory.
For what its worth, I actually tend to dislike the heavily moderated forums. I tend to dislike any place where too many people are all of the same mindset. (I've probably read one too many dystopian novels.) Sometimes the moderated fan forums are just as bad with the "groupthink" zealotry as the anti-twilight obsessives.
I wonder if all the trolling will finally die down once and for all after the movie buzz passes?
Mocha Spresso wrote: "The only way that you can really stop trolling is to start a moderated forum of your own. In a public forum like this, I think it just comes with the territory.For what its worth, I actually tend to dislike the heavily moderated forums. I tend to dislike any place where too many people are all of the same mindset."
It's not so much the differing opinions that are a problem, but the behavior. Behavior is, by and large, set by unspoken norms. The culture around here is toxic and you could blame antis for that, but they're certainly not being called out on a regular basis, are they? Fans are contributors to this phenomenon, too, which is why fans can do something about it.
I don't necessarily know what is the most effective way to effect change around here, but I think we've tried being passive and ignoring and the end result is that fans can't have a conversation and the threads are an embarrassment. We have the same conversations over and over again and we can't talk about what we like and really, that's entirely up to us. I don't think that we need to wait until every last troll on Goodreads tires of Twilight (because I think we'll be waiting a long time, this satisfies an internal need for them. Their "hatred" doesn't originate from the book or its popularity.) Anyway, why would trolls be at the center of conversation anyway? Why aren't they peripheral? Fans should be setting the tone around here much more than they have.
I was very active in the Twilight fandom for about three years before I finally had to just give up and leave - the hatred for the books/movies, even in sites purporting to be "fan sites" was getting to the point my blood pressure rose with every thread that posted. I wanted to talk about my excitement for the movies, something cool I'd picked up on a re-read of one of the books, etc.No one else seemed interested as long as the "big name fans" (read: popular kids) kept bashing, the sycophants fell in line and bashed too, trying to get into that circle.
I seriously wish there was such a place, but one thing I know for sure. If you build it, the trolls will come.
Mickey wrote: "I don't think it matters if they post it somewhere else. You can't tell me they don't come here and read it anyway. It's just really obsessive and a little stalkerish. I'm sure the irony of that wi..."Ha that made me laugh.
I am in no way a hardcore fan but I did enjoy the story when I read it. I do think that people just need to be respectful of other people's beliefs no matter what. This goes for both sides. And if there are people who are not being polite and respectful then they should just be ignored. Everyone deserves respect and to be treated kindly.
This thread is too cute.
Just a thought to drop in here. Most of the haters only go on threads because they thrive on debate as opposed to being (negatively) passionate about the book. I've read a lot of books which people have dubbed life changing. If I disliked it I shelved it on my overrated drivel shelf and moved on. The last thing I want to do then is to go on and debate the book over and over because for me, the time spent on the book was enough wasted.Which brings me back to the haters and their motivation. I can only conclude that they either secretly like the book OR they thrive on making other people feel negatively. The best way I can see around that is to ignore their comments. They can't argue with themselves and if they secretly like the book then bonus!
I thought Twilight was OK, not great but when I read it I was in my late 20's. The book was aimed at teens. A lot of the haters don't really take this into account. As for whether Meyer is a great writer or not, millions of people have read her writing. Whether her style follows certain rules or not is irrelevent. Millions of independent people cannot be wrong and to ignore that would be pure arrogance.
Moral of the story, you seem to have what you're already looking for. A thread for people who love twilight! Agree to ignore the haters and they will get bored and move on :)
Nichola wrote: "Just a thought to drop in here. Most of the haters only go on threads because they thrive on debate as opposed to being (negatively) passionate about the book. I've read a lot of books which peop..."I just realized I could block people's posts, so I've put that into effect. It's working quite nicely for me!
Angie wrote: "I just realized I could block people's posts, so I've put that into effect. It's working quite nicely for me!"How do you do it?
Go on to their profile, scroll to the bottom of the screen. It gives you the option in tiny writing. The frustrating part for me on that is that I sometimes use the mobile app which doesn't enforce the blocks but it world really well on the full version :)
Worlds not world. Gotta love auto correct. The option its bottom left of their profile pages.
Nichola wrote: "Go on to their profile, scroll to the bottom of the screen. It gives you the option in tiny writing. The frustrating part for me on that is that I sometimes use the mobile app which doesn't enfor..."What she said!
Nichola wrote: "Go on to their profile, scroll to the bottom of the screen. It gives you the option in tiny writing."Thank you!
It did it again! Works not world. Youre very welcome.
Mickey wrote: "Fans, what do you think about the Twilight threads as a whole? Are they meeting all your Twilight needs? Personally, I have always been struck at how little fans interact with each other and how al..."I don't think there is anything that can be done. I think it's people who have too much time on their hands. Otherwise, why would you want to obsess about something you claim you don't like?
I don't care if someone doesn't like the book; my life's mission isn't to make people like the book. I'd just like to be able to discuss the things I do like about it without having my response torn apart. Or post without being judged simply on the fact that I enjoyed the book.
Someone sees that you like Twilight, and they think they've got your number. Then they go on to belittle you. I just want to say...really? I tell you that I like a book, and suddenly you think you know everything about me? Who's the real idiot here, buddy?
Just my two cents...
Angie wrote: "I don't care if someone doesn't like the book; my life's mission isn't to make people like the book. I'd just like to be able to discuss the things I do like about it without having my response torn apart. Or post without being judged simply on the fact that I enjoyed the book."I think reading attracts more than its fair share of poseurs. If a person can't understand how someone else can like a book or respond to a book, then they aren't really a part of the clan. If you just read books for their ability to impress, I think the real pleasures of reading are beyond your reach.
Mickey wrote: "M.R. wrote: "Like Tirzah, I'd suggest a reading group. Bear in mind that these are book forums, not fan forums, and their purpose is just as much debate as admiration - even if that debate has been..."He also wrote that there's much more variety on the Harry Potter threads.
Not to hack on Twilight, but there's more variety in anything Harry Potter. It's a more controversial series, dealing with more serious issues (that is if fantasy CAN have serious issues).
The Harry Potter world is more complicated than the Twighlight world, and so has a wider basis for a larger variety of comments.
Don't get me wrong, I love the Twighlight series and I'm totally psyched for the new movie, but they're like the cotton candy of the book world: not a lot of substance but really fun to consume.
Rachael wrote: "It's a more controversial series, dealing with more serious issues "I'm curious about your reasoning. How is Harry Potter a more controversial series and how does it deal with more serious issues?
Mickey wrote: "Rachael wrote: "It's a more controversial series, dealing with more serious issues "I'm curious about your reasoning. How is Harry Potter a more controversial series and how does it deal with mor..."
Well, the premise of twilight is basically a supernatural love story. Instead of girl meets boy, it's girl meets vampire/werewolf. It could be commenting on the (in my opinion) mostly poor judgment girls are making these days on who to hook up with; it also could be a commentary of the consequences of those poor choices, but stripped down to its core, Twilight is, and always will be, a love story (and not much more than that).
Harry Potter on the other hand, is a story that can be taken many different ways. From one perspective, it seems to be a fun, incantation filled romp through a fantasy world with a few dark tidbits thrown in. From another perspective, it seems like a lighter retelling of a very WWII-esque struggle between minorities and a more powerful group. There is a wide range who see a completely different theme to the story; between all of these different takes on it, the fan base has grown and the discussions have become ever more diverse.
I think that the Twilight haters came to be as a reaction to its love story nature. Since there aren't many viewpoints to be taken on it, one of the only impressions it sends is one of a bad example to our young female public: supposedly so impressionable almost to a point of foolishness. Harry Potter lovers are oftentimes the same people as the Twilight haters.
Interesting ideas, Rachael. I don't agree that romance is a less explorable theme than racism, though. Meyer makes several points that are subject to a wide range of opinions about what is ultimately a good match and whether a romance based on friendship and understanding is better than a romance based on intensity of feeling and desire, even though it is fraught with difficulties. Another theme would be whether it is better to "choose" a partner, even if it's "settling" or is it better to be so convinced that the choice is largely a foregone conclusion. Romance is a more controversial theme today, I would say, based on the contemporary culture's hostility to it and view that it is more damaging than constructive. I don't find that racism was explored in any nuanced way in Harry Potter. Wasn't it more: "Kids, racism is bad. Don't judge people based on their heritage"? It's more of a lesson than a theme.The reason why Twilight discussion has less variety is simply that haters have a less varied view on the series than fans. They have only their objections and when conversation continually revolves around a few objections, less gets talked about. There are people who object to Harry Potter on the grounds that it's very lowbrow (Byatt comes to mind). Let's say that there is a group that attaches itself to every discussion thread and wants to talk about how stupid HP is and how terrible of a writer Rowling is. Unless fans make a conscious effort to ignore these interruptions, the threads will never talk about anything else after a while. I think this is a good summation of what's going on here. Fans, on the whole, are so used to defending Twilight, that we don't discuss it as fans would. That's where the lack of variety comes from, in my opinion.
What kinds of topics would you all like to discuss on the Twilight threads, fans? And do you think more 'For Fans Only' threads would be possible?
Mickey wrote: "Interesting ideas, Rachael. I don't agree that romance is a less explorable theme than racism, though. Meyer makes several points that are subject to a wide range of opinions about what is ultimate..."You have some good points there Mickey. Maybe I have been looking at it in a more close minded way than I realized.
My question is, how would fans discuss Twilight? What would be brought up that wouldn't see the light if they continued defending it exclusively like before? What would fans say about it that we're not open about being fans? I am curious to see the new topics brought out by the closet Twilight fans.
Mickey wrote: "What kinds of topics would you all like to discuss on the Twilight threads, fans? And do you think more 'For Fans Only' threads would be possible? "
In-depth character discussions perhaps?
I dunno, but I'm up for anything.
Though in discussing the books I find myself confusing fanfiction things and actual canon things (from the books), so I'm probably gonnna need a refresher course haha.
Peace wrote: "Diane wrote: "Mickey wrote: "What kinds of topics would you all like to discuss on the Twilight threads, fans? And do you think more 'For Fans Only' threads would be possible? "
In-depth charact..."
Oooh!!!
On who? :)
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What are your thoughts about the status of the Twilight threads? What do you think fans can do to improve it?