Twilight
discussion
Is Stephenie a bad writer?
Nicole di Angelo wrote: "She has potential to be a good writer, but that potential just isn't showing through in her books."I agree with that if we're only talking about the twilight books but when it comes to "the host" I thought it was an amazing book honestly.
Of course not. she is an awesome writer, I love all of her books so far.
Jocelyn wrote: "Not all heroines have to be role models, but they shouldn't be bad ones.At worst, I think they should be neutral.
Btw, I'm not talking about Bella specifically, just in general, so I'm not gonna..."
Yeah. I get it, but I just don't like it when that's the reason they hate the book, ya know? Not saying you or anything, just in general.
Jocelyn wrote: "Jordan wrote: "True, I hat when people say that! Like, do you want to learn from it or do you want it to be entertaining?"No, not really. But writing is a powerful mode of expression and I think ..."
Yeah, but I actually liked Katniss, LOL! But I feel like so many people will like the books but not the main character in, like any series. I am completely opposite! I feel like I connect most with the main characters. I just sometimes wonder why people find them... bad???
Siobhan wrote: "Caeselyn wrote: "Nicole di Angelo wrote: "She has potential to be a good writer, but that potential just isn't showing through in her books."i definitely agree.. i thought she would redeem hersel..."
OMG, really? I loved how they did the movie! I got scared to death LOL! I think my mom jumped out of her seat in shock... she was like "THAT NEVER HAPPENED"!!!!!
Jordan wrote: "Yeah, but I actually liked Katniss, LOL! But I feel like so many people will like the books but not the main character in, like any series. I am completely opposite! I feel like I connect most with the main characters. I just sometimes wonder why people find them... bad???"
Lol. I do consider myself a bit demanding of what I expect in a supposedly good book. It's not necessarily like I purposely try to nitpick, only that I can't tolerate as many bad lead characters as I used to.
But that's true. It's very rare for me when I find a book that I like but hate the MC. I'm more likely to like the MC and dislike the rest of the book.
Lol. I do consider myself a bit demanding of what I expect in a supposedly good book. It's not necessarily like I purposely try to nitpick, only that I can't tolerate as many bad lead characters as I used to.
But that's true. It's very rare for me when I find a book that I like but hate the MC. I'm more likely to like the MC and dislike the rest of the book.
I think she's a great writer. I loved the twilight series, but I just finished The Host and it was fantastic!
I think SM was inexperienced in writing. Not bad, just rough. If you look at the bio's of most good writer's they generally had degree's in writing or wrote short stories that were published. These writer's most likely started out just as rough. Writing takes skill. Far beyond natural talent. It's something that takes time and practice and feedback from people. I am sure she would go back and fine tune the Twilight books with the knowledge and experience that she has now. But she did what most of us here have not. She wrote a story that connected with people on a grand scale. No matter what all the negative people and their comments say. They can't take that away from her.
I think that she writes like a 14 year old in the Twilight saga and it makes me feel very uncomfortable. She's not terrible though, it's just that after reading so many good books SM seems like a bad author. I liked her work in Host a lot more.
Stephanie Meyer is a bad author because she writes on a fifth grade reading level, has no character development, creates cheesy black and white characters with little inner struggle, constructs unoriginal storylines, and is utterly predictable. As to whether she's good or not, it depends on how far along the reader is intellectually. I might highly recommend these books to a sixth or seventh grader (based on the writing alone, not the content), but any adult who actually reads regularly should not be impressed with these books. She seeks to explore adult themes while failing to write on an adult level. The content is inappropriate for children, but the writing style is inappropriate for any self-respecting adult. I'm already anticipating someone to bring up her "character development" in regards to Jacob--as someone always does--but I must iterate the difference between developing someone and simply giving them more of a role. That's a big difference. Eclipse and The Host were the only Meyer books I even remotely enjoyed. The Host was also intensely unoriginal, but the sci-fi nerd in me was willing to overlook that. Eclipse was the closest thing to a solid novel she's written, but everything I liked about it I was also disappointed by. The backstories and character histories she introduced were a wonderful opportunity to delve into the thoughts and progression of personality for many of the characters--an opportunity that she promptly squandered. But to be fair we must also acknowledge that The Host was only her sophomoric appearance as an author (I'm consolidating the Twilight Saga as she wrote them so quickly together as to negate much possibility of development as an author between books) and she still has much time to improve and and much potential as well. She's not a terrible writer, I've encountered far worse. And she certainly has the potential to be a good author one day, but for now she's not quite there. Don't mistake good story-telling for good writing.
mkc120/Haley wrote: I know what fifth grade level is. The class had all wrote mystery stories and guess what? THEY ALL SUCKED! Even the sixth graders. Like, they couldn't even get the right dialogue punctuation.
Gotta agree there. When I was in fifth grade, we also had to do some creative writing assignments and they also could not get the right dialogue punctuation. They use periods instead of commas like this:
"Hello." I said. "I'll be right back." I said.
*FACEPALM*
Gotta agree there. When I was in fifth grade, we also had to do some creative writing assignments and they also could not get the right dialogue punctuation. They use periods instead of commas like this:
"Hello." I said. "I'll be right back." I said.
*FACEPALM*
Fifth grade writing level, and yet she managed to make bestseller. I'd say her demographic was made up mostly of "die-hard twi-hards" who needed multiple copies of the same book, pre-pubescent teenage girls who wanted to seem like adults to all their friends when they understood none of the references mentioned, or soccer moms looking for something to do during practice.
mkc120/Haley wrote: "Oh yeah? My class went like this:
The big house was red, with white windows with flowers, and my friend's house was blue, instead and I love it so much both are so pretty I mean don't you think they're pretty I looked around. "Hi, mom." I smiled. "what are you doing."
No kidding. That was my best friend's."
Yikes, that is bad. To be fair I was only talking about dialogue punctuation, but still, that's worse than my classmates.
The big house was red, with white windows with flowers, and my friend's house was blue, instead and I love it so much both are so pretty I mean don't you think they're pretty I looked around. "Hi, mom." I smiled. "what are you doing."
No kidding. That was my best friend's."
Yikes, that is bad. To be fair I was only talking about dialogue punctuation, but still, that's worse than my classmates.
mkc120/ Haley wrote: "Nicole di Angelo wrote: "Fifth grade writing level, and yet she managed to make bestseller. I'd say her demographic was made up mostly of "die-hard twi-hards" who needed multiple copies of the same..."
I'm not saying they buy fifty copies of one edition. I'm saying that some people would have bought multiple editions of the same text. I saw a woman on the news who had an entire room just for her twilight stuff. There are some serious fans out there that would do something such as buy multiple editions
I'm not saying they buy fifty copies of one edition. I'm saying that some people would have bought multiple editions of the same text. I saw a woman on the news who had an entire room just for her twilight stuff. There are some serious fans out there that would do something such as buy multiple editions
great storyteller. Ho hum writer. Very very rich.
mkc120/ Haley wrote: "Nicole di Angelo wrote: "mkc120/ Haley wrote: "Nicole di Angelo wrote: "Fifth grade writing level, and yet she managed to make bestseller. I'd say her demographic was made up mostly of "die-hard tw..."
Right: some. Meaning not everyone did that, but my point is that not each book sold is an individual reader.
Right: some. Meaning not everyone did that, but my point is that not each book sold is an individual reader.
It's not that she's a bad writer, it is that twilight is just a bad series. There is no real depth to any of the characters, except a couple of the minor ones, but she never really told us their stories. Bella is a whiny girl who thinks of no one but herself, and Edward is sulky. Seriously, who wants a boyfriend like that? The books are just a bunch of fluff and no serious plot themes develop. The characters are boring and the story is boring. Only in the last book did she actually start to branch out, but still it was stupid.
I agree on most of your points. But the last book I'd say was the least developed of them all. Bella got pregnant, that was pretty easily predicted. She becomes a vampire, we all knew that would happen at some point. But from there Stephenie avoided all possible issues for them.
1. Bella being a newborn-she totally skips over all the bad parts of being a newborn and is just perfect, talk about a Mary Sue!
2. Never seeing Charlie again- he finds out, and everything's cool
3. Jacob loving her- oops! Psych! He loves your baby now!
4. The wolves issue- truce because of the imprinting thing
5. The Volturi killing them all- they settle it by talking
6. Renesmee dying early- she will live forever at Jacob's perfect age
They never really fought through any issues, they were just handed solutions. It was a mediocre way of resolving supposed issues with the characters she created.
1. Bella being a newborn-she totally skips over all the bad parts of being a newborn and is just perfect, talk about a Mary Sue!
2. Never seeing Charlie again- he finds out, and everything's cool
3. Jacob loving her- oops! Psych! He loves your baby now!
4. The wolves issue- truce because of the imprinting thing
5. The Volturi killing them all- they settle it by talking
6. Renesmee dying early- she will live forever at Jacob's perfect age
They never really fought through any issues, they were just handed solutions. It was a mediocre way of resolving supposed issues with the characters she created.
I LOVED the whole series which for me just kept getting better and better. Stephanie really brought those characters to life! I am only disappointed that it has ended.
I didn't really like her writing in Twilight but I loved it in The Host. Its probably because I read The Host first and loved it and had the same expectation for Twilight. But The writing wasn't bad.
You know Twilight was actually a good book, if you read that you know that she can write good books but then all other novels in the series seemed to drag out the story, kept turning more boring and Breaking Dawn is senseless, its like a fan fiction about what happened when they got married.... Finally, I think she knows what she is doing except after tasting success with Twilight books she's confused how to attract all those readers again, she can be a good writer only if she starts ignoring the economical aspect of writing a book and just focus on her creativity.!!
Nicole di Angelo wrote: "mkc120/ Haley wrote: "Nicole di Angelo wrote: "Fifth grade writing level, and yet she managed to make bestseller. I'd say her demographic was made up mostly of "die-hard twi-hards" who needed multi..."You have to have the copy you read, the copy you don't, the limited edition, the hardback and paperback, the movie companions, the analyses, the parodies (to talk about how much you hate them) .... that's a lot of copies! To be fair, I have two Beedle the Bards, one is the copy readily available, and one is leather, studded, and cost £50 from amazon. I have touched that one once.
Nicole di Angelo wrote: "I agree on most of your points. But the last book I'd say was the least developed of them all. Bella got pregnant, that was pretty easily predicted. She becomes a vampire, we all knew that would ha..."Agreed. She could have made me happy by just killing two Cullens, Esme (to upset Carlisle, and you don't mess with people's mammas) and Emmett (the strongest vegetarian. Because that would prove the red eyed vampires are in fact stronger, and soften Rosalie's image). I would have coped with everything else for just that.
Definitely, definitely not.People erroneously judge her books simply because the franchise has disgusted them. (Yes, I'm talking about the Twilight Saga) The books, in my opinion, were very well-written.
Though, I have to admit, I didn't really get up to liking 'The Host.' I guess I'm just not a sci-fi reader at heart.
Nicole di Angelo wrote: "I agree on most of your points. But the last book I'd say was the least developed of them all. Bella got pregnant, that was pretty easily predicted. She becomes a vampire, we all knew that would ha..."agreed.agreed.agreed. *.* you nailed it!
Didn't I point out that Meyer is a bad writer something like 100 pages ago. Why are you not all agreeing with me yet???????????????????????Bejebus!
Peace wrote: "how odd"
You say odd I say profound genius. It's a subtle matter of perception.
"would it be bit better, if SM would have her saying about her books, that she write about".
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G2eUop...
I had stayed away from this thread for months and just skimmed through the derailment in November. Oh boy. I will forever try not to be rude to the antis after what I read there. I may not agree with the antis because I still enjoyed this series, but I will try to treat what they say as valid and valuable because a lot of their points are very valid when they are not trying to defend themselves personally. Jocelyn - you have been very respectful and have intelligent things to say. Alex, I have cringed about the content of what you say sometimes, but again, you have very intelligent points. Bill - again, the way you say things is a bit hard to accept, but I will try to ignore those parts and focus on the point you are trying to make.
As for the original topic, yes, I agree that SM is a weaker writer. Not the worse I've read though. I personally don't mind too many adjectives probably because I always take more words to explain what I have to say as well. That probably makes me a weaker writer as well, but whatever.
Why did I like this series then? It is hard for me to pinpoint. That makes my argument for it weak, I know. But something sucked me in to reading. Maybe I related to Bella (that doesn't say much for me, I know, but I was also a bookworm loner type in high school). Maybe I like a damsel-in-distress story. Maybe I liked the affection Edward gave Bella. Anyway, I liked it.
I don't have a problem with people not liking this series. I really don't. I dislike books other people think are genius. I only get defensive when I feel like my intelligence and reading ability are called into question just because I liked this series. That's usually when I get my feathers ruffled. Just because I like this series does not mean I cannot read higher literary texts. Considering we are on Goodreads, we are all lovers of reading, so it would stand to reason that any of us would feel personally insulted if our reading ability and intelligence are insulted.
Have a great weekend, everyone!
Kirby wrote: "but that may go back to part of my point- what exactly is the objection? is it to twilight specifically, or to all or most media? if it's the latter, why should twilight have to bear nearly all of the criticism? that doesn't really seem fair."
Sorry I'm responding so late, I somehow missed this message.
I was talking generally, so it's the latter: all media. To answer your question, Twilight gets a lot of flak because it's popular. It's a cultural phenomenon. Surely that's going to widen its influence quite a bit. Whether that influence is bad or not will probably never be agreed upon.
But I honestly don't think Twilight gets most of it. If you've seen the reviews for Fifty Shades, Hush Hush, Beautiful Disaster, and a couple of others, those books get a lot of criticism too. I'd usually say it depends on the popularity. It's a rare time that I stumble across a generally unknown book and find people flaming it for antifeminism or bad role models.
Sorry I'm responding so late, I somehow missed this message.
I was talking generally, so it's the latter: all media. To answer your question, Twilight gets a lot of flak because it's popular. It's a cultural phenomenon. Surely that's going to widen its influence quite a bit. Whether that influence is bad or not will probably never be agreed upon.
But I honestly don't think Twilight gets most of it. If you've seen the reviews for Fifty Shades, Hush Hush, Beautiful Disaster, and a couple of others, those books get a lot of criticism too. I'd usually say it depends on the popularity. It's a rare time that I stumble across a generally unknown book and find people flaming it for antifeminism or bad role models.
mkc120/ Haley wrote: "Yeah, I had a retarded class. Uh, no offence to them if they read this. o_0"
So did I.
(classmates, if you're reading this...go to hell. Just go to freaking hell. >:o)
So did I.
(classmates, if you're reading this...go to hell. Just go to freaking hell. >:o)
Absolutely, that's why Twilight alone has sold over 116 million copies....I hope one day to be that pitiful of a writer ;)
Amy wrote: "I had stayed away from this thread for months and just skimmed through the derailment in November. Oh boy. I will forever try not to be rude to the antis after what I read there. I may not agree wi..."
An excellent point, to each her own, right?
An excellent point, to each her own, right?
Amy wrote: "Have a great weekend, everyone!"
You too!
You too!
A basic overview: Poorly constructed characters, unoriginal plot, horrible grammar, boring sentence structure, and an abysmal writing style. She's much too wordy and will sometimes use the wrong word. I think the excuse that "it's her style" is total bullshit. If that is the case, then her style is tacky. I remember once she wrote "neither...or..." It is SUPPOSED to be "neither...nor..." It is not a matter of style. SHE IS USING THE WRONG WORD. I know that's only a "small error," but it's the fact that there so many of them that irritates me. If you want to find out more about Meyer's abuse of the English language, then I recommend reasoningwithvampires.tumblr.com. The girl who runs the blog literally tears apart the Twilight books. She seriously scans each page of the Twilight books and dissects them.
Karin wrote: "A basic overview: Poorly constructed characters, unoriginal plot, horrible grammar, boring sentence structure, and an abysmal writing style. She's much too wordy and will sometimes use the wrong wo..."
I agree that her so-called "writing style" is awful. However all of the grammar and editing mistakes made, are the fault of her editor who is supposed to catch things like that.
I agree that her so-called "writing style" is awful. However all of the grammar and editing mistakes made, are the fault of her editor who is supposed to catch things like that.
Karin wrote: "A basic overview: Poorly constructed characters, unoriginal plot, horrible grammar, boring sentence structure, and an abysmal writing style. She's much too wordy and will sometimes use the wrong wo..."I love reasoning with vampires. Hilarious blog.
Karin wrote: "She's much too wordy..."Now, how many words is an author allowed to use before they are considered to be "too wordy"?
Karin wrote: "I remember once she wrote "neither...or..." It is SUPPOSED to be "neither...nor..."..."
This may actually be nothing but a typo.
yes. It's like a 12 year old wrote it. No variety in sentences, stupid events, and A LOT of filler chapters.
M.T. wrote: "Absolutely, that's why Twilight alone has sold over 116 million copies....I hope one day to be that pitiful of a writer ;)"HAHA me too!
Polly wrote: "yes. It's like a 12 year old wrote it. No variety in sentences, stupid events, and A LOT of filler chapters."
Maybe that's the appeal. If it's easier to read, the less you have to think, the faster you finish. The more intricate the writing the more time it takes to read it. People just don't have time to read anymore :(
Maybe that's the appeal. If it's easier to read, the less you have to think, the faster you finish. The more intricate the writing the more time it takes to read it. People just don't have time to read anymore :(
M.R. wrote: "Personally, I would have preferred to read a story about Alice and Rosalie. The bubbly punk and the tortured bitch were actually very interesting. "I was just thinking how the only character I actually had any interest in was Alice. She was the only one who stuck out to me after I finally gave up on the first book. I never read the other two books. I couldn't put myself through that.
In my opinion, the thing with the books that appeals to most people is that they're young adult books and thus written on a manageable reading level which is intended to bring young people int the literary world. I'd say they were written on about a seventh grade reading level, which is about equal to the reading level of a daily newspaper. And there's nothing wrong with that. I'm not trashing young adult books, I love them. They're a nice, relaxing, easy read. What I did not like about these books is that the main characters were flat and, lets face it, stupid. The love-struck teenager at least had an excuse for being a romantic idiot- she is a teenager after all- but the vampire who is centuries old had no excuse for his childish, angsty, and creepily pedophilic behavior.
By the time I gave up on the first book, I'd become disgusted at the bad attempt at a love triangle, the idiocy of the main characters, the lack of explanation needed to make sense of overall dynamics of the dysfunctional vampire family, and the mental weakness of the lead feminine character who was suppose to be the heroine. I kept looking at Bella and hoping young girls wouldn't look at her as a role model; she was nothing more than a leading lady in a new age bodice-ripper romance.
Heh. I thought the Cullens were actually way more "functional" than the Swans or the Blacks were.
Mocha Spresso wrote: "Heh. I thought the Cullens were actually way more "functional" than the Swans or the Blacks were."
Haha, so true!
CHING CHANG CHONG wrote: "2013......
My message number and the current year are the same...
Now my life is complete."
Congrats, dude!
Haha, so true!
CHING CHANG CHONG wrote: "2013......
My message number and the current year are the same...
Now my life is complete."
Congrats, dude!
Christina wrote: "Bow ties are cool"
You get it. You are cool.
But not as cool as bunk beds.
mkc120/ Haley wrote: "Siobhan wrote: "Nicole di Angelo wrote: "mkc120/ Haley wrote: "Nicole di Angelo wrote: "Fifth grade writing level, and yet she managed to make bestseller. I'd say her demographic was made up mostly..."I was kidding (not about Beedle the bard, since it looks like an old-old book, and is too pretty for my grubby hands), I have one copy of twilight. That's about one too much. Unless I'm sick, it's pretty much my 'I'm too poorly to concentrate on anything' book.
Beedle the Bard, however, is a book worthy of two editions as it is a sidekick to the Harry Potter Series which is also widely regarded as an absolutely amazing series. Whereas the Twilight Saga has a higher percent of people that dislike it.
Nicole di Angelo wrote: "Beedle the Bard, however, is a book worthy of two editions as it is a sidekick to the Harry Potter Series which is also widely regarded as an absolutely amazing series. Whereas the Twilight Saga ha..."Not that a lot of people disliking something is what one should base his decision on if it's worthy or not, right. ;)
Oh. Well, that changes things for me, Gerd!
Gerd wrote: "Nicole di Angelo wrote: "Beedle the Bard, however, is a book worthy of two editions as it is a sidekick to the Harry Potter Series which is also widely regarded as an absolutely amazing series. Whe..."
Haha, totally! Its worth depends on the person, but general acceptance sometimes plays a factor in a person's decision on whether somethings worthy or not
Haha, totally! Its worth depends on the person, but general acceptance sometimes plays a factor in a person's decision on whether somethings worthy or not
all discussions on this book
|
post a new topic
Sandworld (other topics)
Fire Light (other topics)
Fire Light (other topics)
Fire Light (other topics)
More...
J. Abram Barneck (other topics)
J. Abram Barneck (other topics)
Stephenie Meyer (other topics)
Elie Wiesel (other topics)
More...
Books mentioned in this topic
Rescue Me Gently (other topics)Sandworld (other topics)
Fire Light (other topics)
Fire Light (other topics)
Fire Light (other topics)
More...
Authors mentioned in this topic
J. Abram Barneck (other topics)J. Abram Barneck (other topics)
J. Abram Barneck (other topics)
Stephenie Meyer (other topics)
Elie Wiesel (other topics)
More...
i definitely agree.. i thought she would redeem hersel..."
I couldn't agree more. My classmate's girlfriend watched it on opening night and I remember him quoting her that the movie was boring up to that battle scene and that it was all just a dream. BUT, she said it was the best movie ever after that. I nearly banged my head on my desk that day.